Shockey says G-Men were "outcoached"

[fringe]

I doubt shockey has either, but i'm sure other veterans have. It's apparent our coaches are unwilling to change their game plans. dating back to last year we have the same mistakes and have the same gameplan that doesn't work. Talent alone won last week against the eagles, coaching nearly lost us that game.

so what you're saying is all the plays that worked were because of execution but all the ones that didnt was because of coaching.

[NeMesiS]

I think Shockey was feeling the moment and his immediate feelings and expressing them. Its really no surpirse that Shockey has some issues restraining at times. Was he right? YES Was he right to say it when he did? No. Why? Because, its bad enough that this team has the performance to look back on and see how ass-out all aspects were. The players do nothing to improve the situation by feeding the press. That is all this sort of thing does - feeds the press. It doesnt make coaches chance, in fact, I would say it give them more incentive to be hardnosed and stubborn. But the press loves it and encourages it.

Maybe so, but speaking as a fan (not a player) it's extremely frustrating seeing this team being out coached and out played for 3 straight games. I can't even begin to imagine how the players feel, who actually played the game.

 

I just think seeing that he blamed both players (which included himself)and coaches with his comment, he shouldn't be single out the way that he is by the media. As soon as he said those comments, the media made it out to seem Shockey was throwing TC under the bus. When in reality, he was blaming everyone for the lost.

[Virginia Giant]

so what you're saying is all the plays that worked were because of execution but all the ones that didnt was because of coaching.

No, but good job over simplifing it.

[fringe]

No, but good job over simplifing it.

exactly my point, its a complex problem that the coaches and players have to work together to fix.

 

I just think seeing that he blamed both players (which included himself)and coaches with his comment, he shouldn't be single out the way that he is by the media. As soon as he said those comments, the media made it out to seem Shockey was throwing TC under the bus. When in reality, he was blaming everyone for the lost.

right, the media goaded him into sounding like he was attacking the coaches.

 

and for those of you who think that all the players secretly think the coaches are inept, werll that's just bunk.

[mickeef2]

Jeremy Shockey is an idiot. I feel like I'm allowed to say that, though, because I've been saying it since day 1. I felt back then like he was an embarrassment to the organization and would never become a great ballplayer until he grew up. Well, it's obvious he's not gonna grow up. He's Albert Belle. Allen Iverson. How many more years are we on the hook for with this guy? I think it's a lot, so it'll be awhile before we can start rebuilding our reputation as a champion, rather than the smack-talking underachievers we've become. Unless we just cut him loose and take a hit. The guy is a freakin' immature, daddy-needing, backward-ass hick. He's a total cancer.

[NeMesiS]

Jeremy Shockey is an idiot. I feel like I'm allowed to say that, though, because I've been saying it since day 1. I felt back then like he was an embarrassment to the organization and would never become a great ballplayer until he grew up. Well, it's obvious he's not gonna grow up. He's Albert Belle. Allen Iverson. How many more years are we on the hook for with this guy? I think it's a lot, so it'll be awhile before we can start rebuilding our reputation as a champion, rather than the smack-talking underachievers we've become. Unless we just cut him loose and take a hit. The guy is a freakin' immature, daddy-needing, backward-ass hick. He's a total cancer.

You don't think going to 3 probowl (out of 4 years) and being the 3rd fastest TE to have 250 catches in NFL history make him a great player?

[fringe]

You don't think going to 3 probowl (out of 4 years) and being the 3rd fastest TE to have 250 catches in NFL history make him a great player?

not to mention, a ferocious blocker. i think he's a very good tight end and fits well in the Giants system.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

Tom Clocklin is not a good coach....at least not for this team. There is no chemistry on this team...tons of talent, zero chemistry....and that goes for the coaches and the players

[NeMesiS]

not to mention, a ferocious blocker. i think he's a very good tight end and fits well in the Giants system.

Oh, absolutely. He's a great run blocker if you ask me and Tiki Barber. But of course, he'll never lived to the "He's not as good as M. Bavaro."

[NeMesiS]

Tom Clocklin is not a good coach....at least not for this team. There is no chemistry on this team...tons of talent, zero chemistry....and that goes for the coaches and the players

Yo what up?

 

I'm starting to realize you are correct my friend.

[mickeef2]

You don't think going to 3 probowl (out of 4 years) and being the 3rd fastest TE to have 250 catches in NFL history make him a great player?

 

In a word- no. I really don't care about any of that crap. He's an embarrassment. The rest of the league laughs at us and our Pro Bowler. How many times has he come up huge for us when we needed it? I can think of one- the '02 finale against the Eagles. That's it. I can also think of at least a dozen times when the guy has looked like a total fool on the field, too. Face it, those numbers and pro bowl appearances are a mirage. If you can honestly tell me the guy has lived up to even close to his potential, go for it.

[fringe]

In a word- no. I really don't care about any of that crap. He's an embarrassment. The rest of the league laughs at us and our Pro Bowler. How many times has he come up huge for us when we needed it? I can think of one- the '02 finale against the Eagles. That's it. I can also think of at least a dozen times when the guy has looked like a total fool on the field, too. Face it, those numbers and pro bowl appearances are a mirage. If you can honestly tell me the guy has lived up to even close to his potential, go for it.

I think he's upgraded the receiving corps immensely. Remember what we were like before? Our receivers were covered like blankets. Toomer had his best year in Shockey's 2nd year. Why? Because safeties had to cover Shockey. They still always account for him and that frees up everyone else. I don't know what you were expecting. I'd like him to shut up too but I still think he's very solid and I don't regret the pick.

[mickeef2]

I think he's upgraded the receiving corps immensely. Remember what we were like before? Our receivers were covered like blankets. Toomer had his best year in Shockey's 2nd year. Why? Because safeties had to cover Shockey. They still always account for him and that frees up everyone else. I don't know what you were expecting. I'd like him to shut up too but I still think he's very solid and I don't regret the pick.

 

TO required a lot of attention from defenses, too. Why do you think the Eagles cut him loose? Because no matter how much he provides on the field (and no, I'm not even beginning to compare the talent levels of TO and Shockey), he detracts from it twofold in the locker room. Cancer.

[fringe]

TO required a lot of attention from defenses, too. Why do you think the Eagles cut him loose? Because no matter how much he provides on the field (and no, I'm not even beginning to compare the talent levels of TO and Shockey), he detracts from it twofold in the locker room. Cancer.

that's crazy talk. shockey just blows off steam and then he regrets it. he's not a cancer. mind you, i don't think what he does on the field is right, but there's no way you can liken him to TO.

[Nas]

You don't think going to 3 probowl (out of 4 years) and being the 3rd fastest TE to have 250 catches in NFL history make him a great player?

 

Carlos, no one is disputing Shocky's skills. We know he's a very good TE. Greatness however is built overtime and it entails more than just a few catches. Being a team-player is a necessary component. Now, understand hardly anyone here disputed the essence of what Shocky said but the platform in which he said it. You don't throw your teammates and coaches under the bus. If Shocky was so frustrated with the play calling, he should've said something long before Sunday's loss.

 

Now I understand he let his emotions got the best of him, but he should know better.. at least from now on.

[NeMesiS]

In a word- no. I really don't care about any of that crap. He's an embarrassment. The rest of the league laughs at us and our Pro Bowler. How many times has he come up huge for us when we needed it? I can think of one- the '02 finale against the Eagles. That's it. I can also think of at least a dozen times when the guy has looked like a total fool on the field, too. Face it, those numbers and pro bowl appearances are a mirage. If you can honestly tell me the guy has lived up to even close to his potential, go for it.

How about:

• The TD catch over Dawkins.
• The go ahead TD against R. Williams in Texas Stadium in 2004.
• The game tying TD against R. Williams last year.
• The go ahead TD Catch against D. Sharper. (A Pro-Bowl Safety)
• The amazing 11 catch performance against the Redskins.
• The two point covertion to tie the game against Seattle last year.
• The 10 catch performance against Seattle also.
• The only player fighting for extra yards in last year playoff. (granted in resulted in a fumble) But he was fighting!
• The countless driving catches he has made throught out his career. how many TE you know makes diving catches and exposes his body the way Shockey does? Not one...
• Not to mention playing with 4 different QBs and playing against Players like B. Dawkins, R. Williams, and Sean Taylor.

But you're right man, he hasn't lived up to his potential.

 

Carlos, no one is disputing Shocky's skills. We know he's a very good TE. Greatness however is built overtime and it entails more than just a few catches. Being a team-player is a necessary component. Now, understand hardly anyone here disputed the essence of what Shocky said but the platform in which he said it. You don't throw your teammates and coaches under the bus. If Shocky was so frustrated with the play calling, he should've said something long before Sunday's loss.

 

Now I understand he let his emotions got the best of him, but he should know better.. at least from now on.

I understand, and I agree to a certain extend. But, after a 42 ass-whoopin, you bet your ass I'm going to be frustrated. Like I said, if Shockey would have came out and said its everyones fault but except him. Than I would agree he was at fault. But, since he blame the players (which included himself) and the coaching staff for the lost of against Seattle. You can't blame him for saying that...How else do you explain that kind of ass-whoopin? Plain and simple...We were out played and out coached. Period.

[Nas]

How about:

• The TD catch over Dawkins.
• The go ahead TD against R. Williams in Texas Stadium in 2004.
• The game tying TD against R. Williams last year.
• The go ahead TD Catch against D. Sharper. (A Pro-Bowl Safety)
• The amazing 11 catch performance against the Redskins.
• The two point covertion to tie the game against Seattle last year.
• The 10 catch performance against Seattle also.
• The only player fighting for extra yards in last year playoff. (granted in resulted in a fumble) But he was fighting!
• The countless driving catches he has made throught out his career. how many TE you know makes diving catches and exposes his body the way Shockey does? Not one...
• Not to mention playing with 4 different QBs and playing against Players like B. Dawkins, R. Williams, and Sean Taylor.

But you're right man, he hasn't lived up to his potential.

I understand, and I agree to a certain extend. But, after a 42 ass-whoopin, you bet your ass I'm going to be frustrated. Like I said, if Shockey would have came out and said its everyones fault but except him. Than I would agree he was at fault. But, since he blame the players (which included himself) and the coaching staff for the lost of against Seattle. You can't blame him for saying that...How else do you explain that kind of ass-whoopin? Plain and simple...We were out played and out coached. Period.

 

 

It wasn't an ass-whopping. We just had a terrible game. Play that game again, and I bet you the outcome will be different. I'm not going to hit the panic button because we're 1-2. Name any team in the NFL that has faced tougher 3 games? I didn't forget we outplayed the Colts and lost.. we came back agasint Philly and we sucked against the Seahawks.

 

All we gotta do is take out our frustration on the skins.. beat the crap out of Atlanta then whop Dallas on Monday night.. and we're very capable of doing all of those.

[NeMesiS]

It wasn't an ass-whopping. We just had a terrible game.

Play that game again, and I bet you the outcome will be different. I'm not going to hit the panic button because we're 1-2. Name any team in the NFL that has faced tougher 3 games? I didn't forget we outplayed the Colts and lost.. we came back agasint Philly and we sucked against the Seahawks.

 

All we gotta do is take out our frustration on the skins.. beat the crap out of Atlanta then whop Dallas on Monday night.. and we're very capable of doing all of those.

I don't see us beating the Falcons...

[fishgutmartyr]

Kind of obvious where I fall on the Bavaro/Shockey debate--but they are both great players. Even have some love for Zeke Mowatt.

 

Anyway, how many times is Shockey going to be reamed-out by the press before he figures out that it's best to keep quiet when he's pissed? What he said wasn't that bad, but for him, saying anything is like using a straight razer in a shark tank.

[NeMesiS]

Anyway, how many times is Shockey going to be reamed-out by the press before he figures out that it's best to keep quiet when he's pissed? What he said wasn't that bad, but for him, saying anything is like using a straight razer in a shark tank.

I agree.

[boohyah]

Mickeef, should we get rid of Tiki also because he badmouthed the coaches at the end of the season also. I mean you used the TO example to make your point but wouldn't Tiki have the same value on this team.

 

What Shockey said is what most of the team thinks. The caoching has been pitiful and here's Tim Lewis with the most expensive defense we've ever had and he has them playing like a division 3 team. At least he admitted it this morning. Coughlin needs to man up here also, he's not done a good job. It doesn't make the way Shockey handled himself correct, but I bet you it jolted the organization somewhat.

[Nas]

 

I don't see us beating the Falcons...

 

I do.

[mickeef2]

Mickeef, should we get rid of Tiki also because he badmouthed the coaches at the end of the season also. I mean you used the TO example to make your point but wouldn't Tiki have the same value on this team.

 

What Shockey said is what most of the team thinks. The caoching has been pitiful and here's Tim Lewis with the most expensive defense we've ever had and he has them playing like a division 3 team. At least he admitted it this morning. Coughlin needs to man up here also, he's not done a good job. It doesn't make the way Shockey handled himself correct, but I bet you it jolted the organization somewhat.

 

Tiki slipped up. He admitted he was wrong. It was aone time thing. This is a pattern with Shockey. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes. I'd rather not go over the laundry list of his fuck-ups because it's too depressing. Let's just say the guy is an immature asshole and leave it at that.

[NeMesiS]

Tiki slipped up. He admitted he was wrong. It was aone time thing. This is a pattern with Shockey. The guy doesn't learn from his mistakes. I'd rather not go over the laundry list of his fuck-ups because it's too depressing. Let's just say the guy is an immature asshole and leave it at that.

I think you just concentrating on his negatives, than his positives. Which is a real shame, you know?

[Nas]

I think you just concentrating on his negatives, than his positives. Which is a real shame, you know?

 

Why not be a team player? There are 53 players on the team and none of them threw the team or the coaches under the bus like he did. How would you feel if you were the head coach?

 

The Giants as an organization is a class act and last thing we need is a TO attitude in the locker room. Shocky needs to know that when the going gets tough...