Giants looked too good to be true last night.

[Ditto]

I hate it when the Giants come out of the gate like they're SB favorites, then fall flat on their faces when other teams make a good game plan against them. Although not awesome, they looked really, really good on both sides of the ball. Even the big guy was running the ball well. The only flaw I saw was a little lack of pass rushing, which should improve with Kiwanuka.

[ccase39]

I hate it when the Giants come out of the gate like they're SB favorites, then fall flat on their faces when other teams make a good game plan against them. Although not awesome, they looked really, really good on both sides of the ball. Even the big guy was running the ball well. The only flaw I saw was a little lack of pass rushing, which should improve with Kiwanuka.

I think they looked great unfortunatly I only caught part of the game but I like how jacobs got some real carries. I also liked how johnson moved around, he just needs to learn to throw the ball. I agree with the other post that J will be #2. im excited about the season

[hey]

I hate it when the Giants come out of the gate like they're SB favorites, then fall flat on their faces when other teams make a good game plan against them. Although not awesome, they looked really, really good on both sides of the ball. Even the big guy was running the ball well. The only flaw I saw was a little lack of pass rushing, which should improve with Kiwanuka.

 

What are you talking about? Green was put on his ass every single passing play in the first half. If your complaining about a lack of pass rush by 3rd and 4th stringers then ill take it.

[gmenroc]

What are you talking about? Green was put on his ass every single passing play in the first half. If your complaining about a lack of pass rush by 3rd and 4th stringers then ill take it.

3rd & 4th string - wouldn't that include Tuck and Kiwanuka? Pass rush was pretty damn good from what I saw.

[Plax 4 Prez]

What are you talking about? Green was put on his ass every single passing play in the first half. If your complaining about a lack of pass rush by 3rd and 4th stringers then ill take it.

how many snaps did Lavarr take? I rarely heard his name

[Go_Eli]

how many snaps did Lavarr take? I rarely heard his name

 

5-6 maybe.

[fishgutmartyr]

It sounded like there was a lot of promise shown last night (I only caught the last 10 minutes--philly fox stations showed it at midnight last night, and I didn't realize it until too late).

 

But just as a reality check:

• Our wide receivers consist, after Plax and Toomer, of a guy with a track record of winding up on injured reserve, a second-rounder who has practiced 4 days out of the entire camp, and a guy more known for his amazing special teams play than his WR skills. I really don't get why people think we're only keeping 5 WRs.
• Our secondary has played pretty well so far in our preseason games, but keep in mind we have played two teams with offenses that are not known for their passing game. Although you could argue that with McNair in Bal'more, that may change.
• Our defensive tackles have had one good game, and one really bad game. Of course, a healthy Jamal Lewis will do that to an interior line, but at this point the best thing you say about them is that they are inconsistent.
• Our linebackers haven't shaken out yet. Emmons has yet to play the position in anger, and has not even consistantly appeared on the practice field. Arrington has played only sparingly in the last game, and certainly not enough for the unit to form cohesion. Frankly, on paper we seem really good there, but I wonder who will be our starters by the end of the season due to injuries. To me, this is the most schiz group of the lot, because they will either be scary to our opponents, or wind up being a scary situation to us.

I hope I'm not sounding too Fab-Fourish, and I'm not saying that we're riding for a fall, but keep these things in mind before reserving those Superbowl tickets.

[Nas]

I hate it when the Giants come out of the gate like they're SB favorites, then fall flat on their faces when other teams make a good game plan against them. Although not awesome, they looked really, really good on both sides of the ball. Even the big guy was running the ball well. The only flaw I saw was a little lack of pass rushing, which should improve with Kiwanuka.

 

I wish the big guy can tone down his antics after every carry.

 

Our First Rounder continues to impress and our D-Line stood their ground. Awsome game (except for Rob Johnson... sorry he will be cut)

[Nas]

3rd & 4th string - wouldn't that include Tuck and Kiwanuka? Pass rush was pretty damn good from what I saw.

 

I think Ditto meant chasing the QBs out of the stadium after the game.

[hlb37]

we looked good but I suspect it was as much a function of how bad KC is as anything else. They lost 2 starters off the o-line and are installing a totally new d so....

 

 

still better to look crisp and efficient than shitty and clueless.

[shooboxx]

we looked good but I suspect it was as much a function of how bad KC is as anything else. They lost 2 starters off the o-line and are installing a totally new d so....

still better to look crisp and efficient than shitty and clueless.

 

I think its just being a Giants fan that makes some of us question the validity of what we all saw last night. Was it the team looking spot on amazing or just playing a team that was nowhere near 100%? Eh either way it was an improvement from last week - and even if was just KC being ass.... Giants look pumped, and they played like a good team. Preseason is such a odd thing though... its just silly to call a season or make predictions based off of these games.

[njsmalls]

I think its just being a Giants fan that makes some of us question the validity of what we all saw last night. Was it the team looking spot on amazing or just playing a team that was nowhere near 100%? Eh either way it was an improvement from last week - and even if was just KC being ass.... Giants look pumped, and they played like a good team. Preseason is such a odd thing though... its just silly to call a season or make predictions based off of these games.

Based on recent years...our preseason record reflects how much success we have during the regular season.

 

So if we go 4-0 during this preseason, we should be better than last season! If not, perfect!

[Money]

But just as a reality check:

• Our wide receivers consist, after Plax and Toomer, of a guy with a track record of winding up on injured reserve, a second-rounder who has practiced 4 days out of the entire camp, and a guy more known for his amazing special teams play than his WR skills. I really don't get why people think we're only keeping 5 WRs.
• Our secondary has played pretty well so far in our preseason games, but keep in mind we have played two teams with offenses that are not known for their passing game. Although you could argue that with McNair in Bal'more, that may change.

 

5 WRs is probable because roster dynamics may force the team to accomodate an extra DL and/or OL (specifically Guy Whimper).

 

KC isn't known for their passing offense? Trent Green has thrown for over 4000 yards each of the last 3 season. Link. They have a top 5, perhaps top 3 passing offense.

[fishgutmartyr]

KC isn't known for their passing offense? Trent Green has thrown for over 4000 yards each of the last 3 season. Link. They have a top 5, perhaps top 3 passing offense.

 

Oh yeah?

 

 

 

My error. I think of their running game mostly.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you can risk 5 WRs with this crew though. Still don't trust Carter to stay on the field, and Moss at this point won't be a factor until well into the season with all the time he missed--assuming that he gets back soon.

[Money]

Oh yeah?

My error. I think of their running game mostly.

I don't think you can risk 5 WRs with this crew though. Still don't trust Carter to stay on the field, and Moss at this point won't be a factor until well into the season with all the time he missed--assuming that he gets back soon.

 

Let's be honest here. If one of the top 5 WRs gets hurt, it's not like Michael Jennings, Willie Ponder, or Anthony Mix will be able to step in and contribute any more than a street free agent. And keeping guys like Mix, Triandos Luke, and/or Harry Williams on the practice squad is always on option.

 

Also, with Shockey and Barber being terrific receiving threats, there is not a premium on having a deep stable of WRs.

[fishgutmartyr]

Let's be honest here. If one of the top 5 WRs gets hurt, it's not like Michael Jennings, Willie Ponder, or Anthony Mix will be able to step in and contribute any more than a street free agent. And keeping guys like Mix, Triandos Luke, and/or Harry Williams on the practice squad is always on option.

 

Also, with Shockey and Barber being terrific receiving threats, there is not a premium on having a deep stable of WRs.

 

I doubt anyone expects probowl performances from Jennings, Ponder, or Mix. However, saying that they'd get as much production from a street free agent is an exaggeration. Mix is the only one eligible for the practice squad of these three, I believe, and Ponder would be snatched up by a weaker team for his return skills.

 

Worst case scenario is Carter goes down again, Moss is unready or the quad hampers him all year, and you have Tyree as your 3rd WR--not exactly the downfield threat we were hoping for.

 

Maybe the roster is tight this year--good. But I don't know if WR is where I would get the extra roster spot for Whimper.

[Money]

I doubt anyone expects probowl performances from Jennings, Ponder, or Mix. However, saying that they'd get as much production from a street free agent is an exaggeration. Mix is the only one eligible for the practice squad of these three, I believe, and Ponder would be snatched up by a weaker team for his return skills.

 

Worst case scenario is Carter goes down again, Moss is unready or the quad hampers him all year, and you have Tyree as your 3rd WR--not exactly the downfield threat we were hoping for.

 

Maybe the roster is tight this year--good. But I don't know if WR is where I would get the extra roster spot for Whimper.

 

Even if Tyree has to step in, he's still better than Jennings/Ponder/Mix ... none are downfield threats, or threats at all really. Unless Jennings becomes the primary punt returner, and Ponder regains his role as the primary KR -- both unlikely because of Chad Morton -- you can't justify keeping them on the roster. They don't contribute much on special teams, and they would be non-factors as fill-ins should injuries become a factor.

 

Right now, I think 10 DBs, 7 LBs, 9 DL, and 9 OL are all more likely than keeping 6 WR.

 

They might put Derrick Ward on PUP, which will give Jennings at least 6 weeks of time on the active roster. But what happens once the 6 weeks expire?

[fringe]

I don't take preseason games seriously. Not even the first quarter. I watch them for the rookies.

[BronxRik]

Good God...actual discussion going on...you're all suspended.

[fishgutmartyr]

Even if Tyree has to step in, he's still better than Jennings/Ponder/Mix ... none are downfield threats, or threats at all really. Unless Jennings becomes the primary punt returner, and Ponder regains his role as the primary KR -- both unlikely because of Chad Morton -- you can't justify keeping them on the roster. They don't contribute much on special teams, and they would be non-factors as fill-ins should injuries become a factor.

 

Right now, I think 10 DBs, 7 LBs, 9 DL, and 9 OL are all more likely than keeping 6 WR.

 

They might put Derrick Ward on PUP, which will give Jennings at least 6 weeks of time on the active roster. But what happens once the 6 weeks expire?

This is why I hated resigning Carter--he is such a question mark, that you almost fear him making the roster because you lose a slot for a developmental player for a player who more often than not winds up on IR. This bunch feels almost like Carter/Taylor all over again with Moss--I know there's a difference between a quad and a knee, but so far the effect has been the same.

 

I highly doubt 9 DLs. Unless you are thinking of Moore, and even there, between Tuck and Kiwi, I don't see it happening. I definitely don't think we're keeping 5 tackles, especially not the ones we have right now. Cofield definitely stays, Joseph and Robbins probably. The other two? Considering that the team has had both Jackson and Buckner in the last week or so pretty much tells you in what regard the coaches hold the tackles. This crew definitely can be replenished with street free agents, as it has in the past.

 

The linebackers? Maybe. This crew is too unstable for my tastes, health-wise. You may be right here, but it wouldn't surprise me if Wilkinson replaces Emmons or Torbor on the roster (edit:I don't mean the depth chart). I'd like to see the kids McNiel and Smith reach our practice squad, too.

 

Who do you have in mind for DBs? Not a rhetorical question, just curious.

 

Ryan Kuehl would be an obvious cut if Ruegamer can long snap. I seem to recall he was doing some of that in camp early on, but I don't know what became of it.

[Money]

This is why I hated resigning Carter--he is such a question mark, that you almost fear him making the roster because you lose a slot for a developmental player for a player who more often than not winds up on IR. This bunch feels almost like Carter/Taylor all over again with Moss--I know there's a difference between a quad and a knee, but so far the effect has been the same.

 

I highly doubt 9 DLs. Unless you are thinking of Moore, and even there, between Tuck and Kiwi, I don't see it happening. I definitely don't think we're keeping 5 tackles, especially not the ones we have right now. Cofield definitely stays, Joseph and Robbins probably. The other two? Considering that the team has had both Jackson and Buckner in the last week or so pretty much tells you in what regard the coaches hold the tackles. This crew definitely can be replenished with street free agents, as it has in the past.

 

The linebackers? Maybe. This crew is too unstable for my tastes, health-wise. You may be right here, but it wouldn't surprise me if Wilkinson replaces Emmons or Torbor on the roster (edit:I don't mean the depth chart). I'd like to see the kids McNiel and Smith reach our practice squad, too.

 

Who do you have in mind for DBs? Not a rhetorical question, just curious.

 

Ryan Kuehl would be an obvious cut if Ruegamer can long snap. I seem to recall he was doing some of that in camp early on, but I don't know what became of it.

 

If you look at any team's roster, you'll find question marks after the top 2 or 3 guys. No team has 5 good wide receivers. Most team have developmental/special teams guys behind their starters. The Giants are very fortunate to have two starters who are as accomplishes as Burress and Toomer. Not too much a TE and RB that are among the productive at their respective positions.

 

The instability at DT leads me to believe they'll keep five (I discussed this in my training camp preview). They might have a particularly strong group, but they do have strength in numbers.

 

The DB position is a real logjam. Madison, Webster, McQuarters, Wilson, Demps, and Butler are locks or near locks (i.e. 90% chance or better). That's 6 spots, which means there a maximum of 4 spots up for grabs among the rest. And you could make a case for Deloatch, Walker, Underwood, Peprah, Harris, and Bell. Simply put, there's more roster-worthy DBs than roster-worthy WRs.

 

There's no chance Kuehl gets cut and there's no reason to cut him even if Ruegamer could long-snap. Kuehl is too good and too valuable. Ruegamer has not taken a long-snap in a game yet; there's no intention of unseating Kuehl.

[fishgutmartyr]

If you look at any team's roster, you'll find question marks after the top 2 or 3 guys. No team has 5 good wide receivers. Most team have developmental/special teams guys behind their starters. The Giants are very fortunate to have two starters who are as accomplishes as Burress and Toomer. Not too much a TE and RB that are among the productive at their respective positions.

 

The instability at DT leads me to believe they'll keep five (I discussed this in my training camp preview). They might have a particularly strong group, but they do have strength in numbers.

 

The DB position is a real logjam. Madison, Webster, McQuarters, Wilson, Demps, and Butler are locks or near locks (i.e. 90% chance or better). That's 6 spots, which means there a maximum of 4 spots up for grabs among the rest. And you could make a case for Deloatch, Walker, Underwood, Peprah, Harris, and Bell. Simply put, there's more roster-worthy DBs than roster-worthy WRs.

 

There's no chance Kuehl gets cut and there's no reason to cut him even if Ruegamer could long-snap. Kuehl is too good and too valuable. Ruegamer has not taken a long-snap in a game yet; there's no intention of unseating Kuehl.

We're really on the same page here. You won't hear any arguments from me about Plax and Toomer--in fact, I love Toomer in his new role. I'm just looking at Carter/Moss as a logjam at #3 wide receiver, with no developmental receiver. This team has been burned by Carter more than a few times injury-wise, but Moss isn't going to be ready at the start of the season at this point. And there's no way I'd even suggest bringing one in for Tyree, so sleep well. I would have been much happier if Moss didn't get the injury, beat out Carter, and there was a battle for #5 between Jennings and Mix. So much for ifs.

 

Still don't see 5 DTs. Especially, as you say, with the talent in the DB. It seems like a concession to mediocrity to keep them all. If either Duckett or Seawright were showing any signs of improvement, I'd concede the point: as it stands now, I don't see any progression from last year.

 

Oh and you took the easy way, Money. I asked you who you wanted to see in, not the no brainers. I figure Peprah and Underwood are in. I don't know if Walker did enough to stay on; and unless he's too important to ST, I think Deloatch might have worked his way off. I don't know enough about Harris and Bell to say either way, although I've heard they are good special teamers.

 

Don't misunderstand my reference to Kuehl. He's done everything we've asked of him flawlessly. I just wish that our longsnapper had a bigger role in other aspects of the game. Not that I would want to live the nightmare of Kuehl on the defensive line, but you get the picture.

[Iceman_NYG]

Don't misunderstand my reference to Kuehl. He's done everything we've asked of him flawlessly. I just wish that our longsnapper had a bigger role in other aspects of the game. Not that I would want to live the nightmare of Kuehl on the defensive line, but you get the picture.

 

Giants fans do not mention the word "long snapper". It is blasphemy. :brooding:

[fishgutmartyr]

Giants fans do not mention the word "long snapper". It is blasphemy. :brooding:

C'mon Icey, have a heart. That poor bastard was a street free agent we picked up a week or two before the game, and he's been nothing but remorseful since. It should never have come down to a field goal to begin with, and even the officiating blew the call on that play. To lay it all on that guy is just unfair, and it's already been over 3 years.

 

Long snapper. Long snapper. Long snapper.

[Money]

We're really on the same page here. You won't hear any arguments from me about Plax and Toomer--in fact, I love Toomer in his new role. I'm just looking at Carter/Moss as a logjam at #3 wide receiver, with no developmental receiver. This team has been burned by Carter more than a few times injury-wise, but Moss isn't going to be ready at the start of the season at this point. And there's no way I'd even suggest bringing one in for Tyree, so sleep well. I would have been much happier if Moss didn't get the injury, beat out Carter, and there was a battle for #5 between Jennings and Mix. So much for ifs.

 

Still don't see 5 DTs. Especially, as you say, with the talent in the DB. It seems like a concession to mediocrity to keep them all. If either Duckett or Seawright were showing any signs of improvement, I'd concede the point: as it stands now, I don't see any progression from last year.

 

Oh and you took the easy way, Money. I asked you who you wanted to see in, not the no brainers. I figure Peprah and Underwood are in. I don't know if Walker did enough to stay on; and unless he's too important to ST, I think Deloatch might have worked his way off. I don't know enough about Harris and Bell to say either way, although I've heard they are good special teamers.

 

Don't misunderstand my reference to Kuehl. He's done everything we've asked of him flawlessly. I just wish that our longsnapper had a bigger role in other aspects of the game. Not that I would want to live the nightmare of Kuehl on the defensive line, but you get the picture.

 

Fortunately, Mix is eligible for the practice squad (Jennings is not). I suspect that Mix didn't get much playing time against the Cheifs (and won't get much playing time against the Jets) because Tom wants to stash him on the practice squad. So I feel like Mix is our developmental guy; Jennings doesn't fit that role because he's already 27 and has no P-squad eligibility.

 

I wouldn't call keeping 5 DTs it a concession to mediocrity. I see it as common sense. You are somewhat week at one position, so you keep an extra guy. That being said, Seawright has played well in preseason and Duckett has been playing with the 3rd teamers, so 4 DTs is becoming more of a possibility.

 

My guess with the DBs. CBs: Madison, Webster, McQuarters, Walker, Underwood, Deloatch. Safeties: Wilson, Demps, Butler, Peprah. Deloatch's plays on special teams probably salvages his roster spot.

 

Ideally, the long-snapper fills another role, but it has gotten to the point where long-snappers have become specialists just like kickers and punters. Almost every long-snapper in football has the lone responsibility, which is really countintuitive since one would imagine the caliber of athletes on the NFL could handle long-snapping and an additional role(s). In any case, it is what is, and Kuehl's job security is almost equal to that of Tiki Barber.