Offseason plan

[Money]

I'm still firmly on the Jamaar Taylor bandwagon. He's my boy.

[GiantsRevival]

Not exactly as a third WR but just another threat. This has been a problem for a while now. Despite the great amount of talent we have in our WR corps, we still haven't found the guy who can be much more of a threat in the red zone. 7 TDs for each of them looks very good but there are a lot of plays these guys left on the field. Well, maybe not Toomer. Toomer is an exception. He overacheives possibly IMO in the red zone. Shockey is borderline, needs to play harder. Plax needs to prove soemthing though.

 

Game planning is also a factor. I feel that Hufnagel is finally getting a good grasp on how to call the plays better and I think by year 3, the offense will get a grasp on Hufnagel's system. So that should make for good things.

 

I am not satisfied with our red zone play and I firmly believe that getting a quality WR is a need for this off-seaosn.

 

We rarely use the 3 WR set in the Red Zone and honestly I doubt thats a formation that would be run by our offense often. Who do you take off the field so that Stovall can come in when we hit the red zone? I like Stovall too. But I'm of the feeling that the defense needs an overhaul. And honestly I wouldn't be opposed to an all defense draft. Toomers future replacement could be found next year.

I think our struggles in the red zone mostly stem from the QB position moreso than anywhere else. And honestly, how often would the 3rd WR see the field inside the 20?

Exactly. As Eli progresses so will our red zone offense.

[CharlesShowMeTheWay]

I'm still firmly on the Jamaar Taylor bandwagon. He's my boy.

 

As am I considering he showed us he could make plays when healthy, unlike Tim Carter. If we were to go into the season with him as our 3rd WR (completely healthy I might add) I would not be worried at all.

[Martin]

I like taylor also and I cant wait for camp.

We need competition at 3WR spot Tyree with his

great ST play deserves a shot!

[parlintm]

This a fair point, although I think you must consider that currently we don't have any viable starter at WLB. Torbor is irrelevant to the debate, because he is a SLB. Emmons is a decent player, but he is not well-suited to be a WLB ... and at age 32 (soon to be 33), he does not have much of a future here. As such, IMO the need to address WLB far exceeds the need to add a 3rd WR (for reasons previously discussed -- Plax, Shockey, Toomer, Tiki -- though I do agree 3rd WR is a need). The same applies to FS, where our current reinforcements consist of James Butler and only James Butler, thus prioritizing FS over 3rd WR as well.

 

Therefore, I think that after CB, WLB and FS are our most pressing needs. I would like to see all of these positions, WR included, addressed in free agency. I have always felt that free agency was the proper avenue to address need, while the draft is an excellent resource for acquiring pure talent. That's why I hate discussing draft picks within the context of need, because I am a firm believer in getting the best player available. That being said (and I'm sure this will be a point of disagreement), I think that D'Qwell is a better football player than Chad, and factoring in this concept of "need," I feel that he would be a smarter pick at 25.

 

Money, I stand behind my belief that if Jackson is available we should draft him. But it seems highly unlikely at this point that he won't be left at #25 so I'm moving on. As I see it, our needs are in roughly this order:

Starting CB, #3 WR, LB, FS, DT, Nickel/4th CB.

 

I think it's widely accepted that we will sign either Will Allen or a comparable FA to start opposite Webster. Given the quality of LB's in the draft, I think it makes sense to draft one in the first or second round. How important do you think our acquiring a FS is? I think Butler will be fine (maybe he ends up being good) but regardless we need some quality depth and maybe someone that can start over him. But if the Giants really think that he is the long-term answer at FS then the need at FS drops in priority. I'm just not sure about Butler... thoughts?

 

I think spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a WR can be a waste. I think that WR's, once you get out of the first round are very questionable and are hit or miss. If we don't go WR in the first round, I'd rather use the pick on other, safer positions. So this means, acquiring a solid #3 via FA.

 

What's the latest on the Clancy situation?? IMO, Fred Robbins is not going to cut it and this is an issue that is being overlooked. We need to grab a solid, run stopper in FA b/c I dont see the giants going w/ DT early in the draft.

 

So I guess this is my breakdown, assuming Jackson, Holmes and Moss will be gone by the time we pick (even if moss is left, not sure if I want him).

#1 CB- sign w.a or FA

LB - Round 2 of the draft

Round 1 Pick - BPA at CB, FS, and even DT. I think we've got lots of flexibility/needs here and shouldnt get caught up on drafting a certain position. I also don't think we should take a LB here unless there is truly a top guy b/c I don't want to take LB rounds 1 and 2... and I think LB in round 2 could be great value pick.

WR - Get a solid guy via FA. Someone who has not been injury prone.

Round 3-4: Take whichever positions we didnt take in round 1, going BPA available first.

 

Sorry, this ended up longer than I intended. Thoughts? also, money what's your problem w/ emmons? I know he's not a long-term solution, but neither is Toomer. The question is, is he this year's solution? I'd say yes, especially if we draft a backup. I dont have a problem w/ him starting, can you explain why you don't like emmons?

[GiantsRevival]

I'm still firmly on the Jamaar Taylor bandwagon. He's my boy.

If he can stay healthy I think he is our guy. Whenever he's been on the field he's made the big plays. I actually like our WR's. Tyree is a solid backup as well. We will need another guy but a 3rd,4th rounder with speed would do. Just because we got shut out by Carolina doen't mean our offense is lacking anything. They just had an off day. As Eli improves it won't matter who the 3rd WR is.

[parlintm]

I like taylor also and I cant wait for camp.

We need competition at 3WR spot Tyree with his

great ST play deserves a shot!

 

Taylor, I like and he will get his chance come training camp but he hasnt shown he can stay healthy or even be a productive WR so relying on him to be our #3 would be a big mistake. If he shows he can stay healthy and make the plays, he deserves it.

 

I love Tyree but he's never going to be a good receiver. While he's great on ST, he's just not that fast or quick or big or anything. He'll keep making the team b/c of his ST but not for his receiving skills.

 

The point is, addressing the #3 WR through an early draft pick or FA acquisition is a must. It seems more and more likely that we will go the route of FA.

[Frank_Grimes]

I'm still firmly on the Jamaar Taylor bandwagon. He's my boy.

 

I'm with you on the wagon, when we drafted him we were all aware that he was a project because he was coming off a major knee injury so he wouldn't produce for a least a year, so I wipe his rookie year and most of last year off the books because of that. Now if he gets injured again I'll be a little skeptical

[CharlesShowMeTheWay]

Money, I stand behind my belief that if Jackson is available we should draft him. But it seems highly unlikely at this point that he won't be left at #25 so I'm moving on. As I see it, our needs are in roughly this order:

Starting CB, #3 WR, LB, FS, DT, Nickel/4th CB.

 

I think it's widely accepted that we will sign either Will Allen or a comparable FA to start opposite Webster. Given the quality of LB's in the draft, I think it makes sense to draft one in the first or second round. How important do you think our acquiring a FS is? I think Butler will be fine (maybe he ends up being good) but regardless we need some quality depth and maybe someone that can start over him. But if the Giants really think that he is the long-term answer at FS then the need at FS drops in priority. I'm just not sure about Butler... thoughts?

 

I think spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a WR can be a waste. I think that WR's, once you get out of the first round are very questionable and are hit or miss. If we don't go WR in the first round, I'd rather use the pick on other, safer positions. So this means, acquiring a solid #3 via FA.

 

What's the latest on the Clancy situation?? IMO, Fred Robbins is not going to cut it and this is an issue that is being overlooked. We need to grab a solid, run stopper in FA b/c I dont see the giants going w/ DT early in the draft.

 

So I guess this is my breakdown, assuming Jackson, Holmes and Moss will be gone by the time we pick (even if moss is left, not sure if I want him).

#1 CB- sign w.a or FA

LB - Round 2 of the draft

Round 1 Pick - BPA at CB, FS, and even DT. I think we've got lots of flexibility/needs here and shouldnt get caught up on drafting a certain position. I also don't think we should take a LB here unless there is truly a top guy b/c I don't want to take LB rounds 1 and 2... and I think LB in round 2 could be great value pick.

WR - Get a solid guy via FA. Someone who has not been injury prone.

Round 3-4: Take whichever positions we didnt take in round 1, going BPA available first.

 

Sorry, this ended up longer than I intended. Thoughts? also, money what's your problem w/ emmons? I know he's not a long-term solution, but neither is Toomer. The question is, is he this year's solution? I'd say yes, especially if we draft a backup. I dont have a problem w/ him starting, can you explain why you don't like emmons?

 

This is not true...

 

Todd Pinkston, Koren Robinson, Freddie Mitchell, Peter Warrick, and Peerless Price all were all 1st round drat busts.

 

On the other hand guys like Andre Reed, T.O. and Issac Bruce were all drafted past round 1.

 

So I think ANY player drafted is either "hit or miss".

Edited February 28, 2006 by CharlesShowMeTheWay

[Money]

I think it's widely accepted that we will sign either Will Allen or a comparable FA to start opposite Webster. Given the quality of LB's in the draft, I think it makes sense to draft one in the first or second round. How important do you think our acquiring a FS is? I think Butler will be fine (maybe he ends up being good) but regardless we need some quality depth and maybe someone that can start over him. But if the Giants really think that he is the long-term answer at FS then the need at FS drops in priority. I'm just not sure about Butler... thoughts?

 

I can't say that bringing back Will Allen or a comparable CB is a given, because the supply of CB's this year looks to sub-par.

 

I'm not sold on Butler as a starting FS. At least, I'm not sold yet. I do believe he deserves a shot, but I think the Giants have to, at the very least, bring in competition. You are right that if the Giants are really high on Butler, then the FS becomes less of a priority.

 

I think spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a WR can be a waste. I think that WR's, once you get out of the first round are very questionable and are hit or miss. If we don't go WR in the first round, I'd rather use the pick on other, safer positions. So this means, acquiring a solid #3 via FA.

 

It varies from case to case. Very good WRs can slide, so I think it depends totally on the player rather than the draft slot. Our own Amani Toomer was a 2nd round pick. Then again, so was Tim Carter. I think that free agency is the way to go, which is why I have suggested Jabar Gaffney time and again. Plus, I'm still a big fan of Jamaar Taylor.

 

What's the latest on the Clancy situation?? IMO, Fred Robbins is not going to cut it and this is an issue that is being overlooked. We need to grab a solid, run stopper in FA b/c I dont see the giants going w/ DT early in the draft.

 

From what I understand, Clancy and the Giants are still at an impasse in negotiations. I hope they bring him back at a reasonable price ... I'd certainly rather look elsewhere than overpay for him. One name to keep an eye on is La'Roi Glover, who will probably get cut by Dallas. Perfect fit in our scheme, and should not be overly expensive because of his age.

 

So I guess this is my breakdown, assuming Jackson, Holmes and Moss will be gone by the time we pick (even if moss is left, not sure if I want him).

#1 CB- sign w.a or FA

LB - Round 2 of the draft

Round 1 Pick - BPA at CB, FS, and even DT. I think we've got lots of flexibility/needs here and shouldnt get caught up on drafting a certain position. I also don't think we should take a LB here unless there is truly a top guy b/c I don't want to take LB rounds 1 and 2... and I think LB in round 2 could be great value pick.

WR - Get a solid guy via FA. Someone who has not been injury prone.

Round 3-4: Take whichever positions we didnt take in round 1, going BPA available first.

 

Out of curiosity, who are some 2nd round LBs that you like?

 

Sorry, this ended up longer than I intended. Thoughts? also, money what's your problem w/ emmons? I know he's not a long-term solution, but neither is Toomer. The question is, is he this year's solution? I'd say yes, especially if we draft a backup. I dont have a problem w/ him starting, can you explain why you don't like emmons?

 

I don't dislike him as a player ... I just don't like him on the weak side. He is rigid and does not have great agility, which makes him a square peg in a round hole at WLB. He may be this year's solution (assuming he can stay on the field), but I think the team can do better, even with a rookie LB as decorated as Jackson (but not with a developmental guy such as Thomas Howard). His injuries, age, salary (he may still be cut for all we know), and playing out of position make him a question mark to me.

[parlintm]

This is not true...

 

Todd Pinkston, Koren Robinson, Freddie Mitchell, Peter Warrick, and Peerless Price all were all 1st round drat busts.

 

On the other hand guys like Andre Reed, T.O. and Issac Bruce were all drafted past round 1.

 

So I think ANY player drafted is either "hit or miss".

 

My point was that the WR spot is a very difficult one to gauge. There is rarely such a thing as a sure thing. I think Jackson and Holmes are as close to the sure thing as you can get in this draft and beyond them, I dont feel comfortable with the Giants using a valuable draft pick on a risky WR. So I guess we're in agreement, no WR's rounds 2-4!

[CharlesShowMeTheWay]

My point was that the WR spot is a very difficult one to gauge. There is rarely such a thing as a sure thing. I think Jackson and Holmes are as close to the sure thing as you can get in this draft and beyond them, I dont feel comfortable with the Giants using a valuable draft pick on a risky WR. So I guess we're in agreement, no WR's rounds 2-4!

 

Yes they are but considering defensive players are needed most I can't see our 1st rounder going towards anything but a defensive player. I don't agree about the no WR's in rounds 2-4 because I do like Maurice Stovall in the 2nd round but other than him I don't see anyone else worth drafting at the position. So I guess we kind of agree

[Pizan]

I'm still firmly on the Jamaar Taylor bandwagon. He's my boy.

 

 

lol, funny shit.

[parlintm]

I can't say that bringing back Will Allen or a comparable CB is a given, because the supply of CB's this year looks to sub-par.

 

I'm not sold on Butler as a starting FS. At least, I'm not sold yet. I do believe he deserves a shot, but I think the Giants have to, at the very least, bring in competition. You are right that if the Giants are really high on Butler, then the FS becomes less of a priority.

.

From what I understand, Clancy and the Giants are still at an impasse in negotiations. I hope they bring him back at a reasonable price ... I'd certainly rather look elsewhere than overpay for him. One name to keep an eye on is La'Roi Glover, who will probably get cut by Dallas. Perfect fit in our scheme, and should not be overly expensive because of his age.

 

Out of curiosity, who are some 2nd round LBs that you like?

 

I don't dislike him as a player ... I just don't like him on the weak side. He is rigid and does not have great agility, which makes him a square peg in a round hole at WLB. He may be this year's solution (assuming he can stay on the field), but I think the team can do better, even with a rookie LB as decorated as Jackson (but not with a developmental guy such as Thomas Howard). His injuries, age, salary (he may still be cut for all we know), and playing out of position make him a question mark to me.

 

Ok.. lots to deal with:

1. CB - I agree that this is pretty thin this year and signing WA seems like the best option (which is scary). I'm terrified that the Giants are going to reach and overspend big time on a mediocre player, ala Petigout. I don't think that the Giants will go into the season starting Webster and a rookie so that leaves signing a FA. Lately I've been thinking that the draft is pretty deep at CB as well and we should have our choice of a few of them. I think the Giants are really being built to win the superbowl in the 2007-2008 year so I think drafting a CB and throwing him out there might not be the worst thing. It might be a bit painful early but come playoff time, we might have 2 good, young Cb's. That said, we could take the money used to sign a and actually get a big name player. Maybe we could go for a big DT and have arguably the best DL which would mask some mistakes by a young secondary.... sorry for rambling, just thinking outloud. So if not FA Cb, what do you think?

 

2. From some interview I read, it seemed like the Giants were pretty high on Butler. I think bringing in a mid round pick for competition/depth is the way they will go. Unless they are VERY high on him and think he's a longterm rock, then they willg get a cheap vet to back him up. I doubt they are that high on him though.

 

3. DT is still an issue. I guess it all hinges on Clancy and this contract. If he leaves, I think this is position for the Giants to make a potential "spash" in FA.

 

4. Intersting thoughts on emmons. Id always taken him as a solid, starter... but you might be right. Ill get back to you on round 2 LB's.

Edited February 28, 2006 by Armstead98

[parlintm]

Out of curiosity, who are some 2nd round LBs that you like?

 

Here are the scouting reports for OLB and ILB from nlfdraftcountdown:

 

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/ilb.html

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/olb.html

 

I like abdul hodge a lot. I'm not sure if he can play OLB or not. Given the number of LB's in this draft, there's a chance someone like Howard drops to us in round 2.

 

Honestly, I havent spent too much time researching the round 2 LB's... but given the number of top tier guys I would be suprised if there wasnt a quality LB left at 54 or whenever our next pick is. Accorsi is pretty good at finding those second round guys and I have faith that he could get great value in the second round at LB.

 

If someone who knows about the second round LB's would speak up, Id be interested to hear about it.

[CharlesShowMeTheWay]

Here are the scouting reports for OLB and ILB from nlfdraftcountdown:

 

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/ilb.html

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/olb.html

 

I like abdul hodge a lot. I'm not sure if he can play OLB or not. Given the number of LB's in this draft, there's a chance someone like Howard drops to us in round 2.

 

Honestly, I havent spent too much time researching the round 2 LB's... but given the number of top tier guys I would be suprised if there wasnt a quality LB left at 54 or whenever our next pick is. Accorsi is pretty good at finding those second round guys and I have faith that he could get great value in the second round at LB.

 

If someone who knows about the second round LB's would speak up, Id be interested to hear about it.

 

I doubt Howard would fall to us in the 2nd considering many teams love his physical tools.

[parlintm]

I doubt Howard would fall to us in the 2nd considering many teams love his physical tools.

 

He's just an example that I'm throwing out there. Right now there are about 10 first round quality LB's. I'm just saying that the chance one of them drops to our second round pick is a definite possibility. If not one of those 10, there are always quality LB's available in the second round who get overlooked b/c they arent the biggest or fastest player out there. Just like Lofa last year. Accorsi should definitely be able to find a quality LB with that pick.

[gateb]

We rarely use the 3 WR set in the Red Zone and honestly I doubt thats a formation that would be run by our offense often. Who do you take off the field so that Stovall can come in when we hit the red zone? I like Stovall too. But I'm of the feeling that the defense needs an overhaul. And honestly I wouldn't be opposed to an all defense draft. Toomers future replacement could be found next year.

 

Exactly. As Eli progresses so will our red zone offense.

It's not that we need a third WR. It's that we are one injury away with Toomer or Plax being sidelined for 6-8 weeks, and Jamaar Taylor being placed out of nowhere at the #2 spot. Now, I am not against Jamaar but I think a guy like Stovall has better potential at #2.

[parlintm]

It's not that we need a third WR. It's that we are one injury away with Toomer or Plax being sidelined for 6-8 weeks, and Jamaar Taylor being placed out of nowhere at the #2 spot. Now, I am not against Jamaar but I think a guy like Stovall has better potential at #2.

 

Ditto.

[BigPete]

It's not that we need a third WR. It's that we are one injury away with Toomer or Plax being sidelined for 6-8 weeks, and Jamaar Taylor being placed out of nowhere at the #2 spot. Now, I am not against Jamaar but I think a guy like Stovall has better potential at #2.

 

Plaxico and Toomer are good starters

 

 

Jamaar Taylor has potential, he could still develop into a good WR

 

David Tyree also provides useful depth

 

I see our main problem is #3 WR. I think we are best suited to filling that need in free agency with someone like Jabaar Gaffney.

 

That would give us a pretty decent WR group:

 

Plaxico Burress

Amani Toomer

Jabaar Gaffney

Jamaar Taylor

David Tyree

 

we could also get a decent developmental WR on day 2 of the draft

Edited February 28, 2006 by BigPete

[GiantsRevival]

It's not that we need a third WR. It's that we are one injury away with Toomer or Plax being sidelined for 6-8 weeks, and Jamaar Taylor being placed out of nowhere at the #2 spot. Now, I am not against Jamaar but I think a guy like Stovall has better potential at #2.

You can say that about any position. What if Eli,Pierce,Shockey,Wilson were to get hurt. We'd be screwed. The injury arguement is no reason to draft a WR in the 1st few rounds. We are deep at WR. 2 quality starters and 2 quality backups in Taylor and Tyree(when resigned). We should sign a solid free agent WR and draft the best defensive player available in the 2nd round.

[gateb]

Plaxico and Toomer are good starters

Jamaar Taylor has potential, he could still develop into a good WR

 

David Tyree also provides useful depth

 

I see our main problem is #3 WR. I think we are best suited to filling that need in free agency with someone like Jabaar Gaffney.

 

That would give us a pretty decent WR group:

 

Plaxico Burress

Amani Toomer

Jabaar Gaffney

Jamaar Taylor

David Tyree

 

we could also get a decent developmental WR on day 2 of the draft

Problem is, as talented as Plax is, he won't show up to every game. Or at least seeing how he has played in his time he has spent in NY, he won't. Unless Plax comes out and admits that he has been lazy at some times here in NY and then TC lights a fire under his ass, then I think we do need a WR.

 

We need a more precise route runner, and seeing that we don't have those guys on our team, we should sign a WR.

 

You can say that about any position. What if Eli,Pierce,Shockey,Wilson were to get hurt. We'd be screwed. The injury arguement is no reason to draft a WR in the 1st few rounds. We are deep at WR. 2 quality starters and 2 quality backups in Taylor and Tyree(when resigned). We should sign a solid free agent WR and draft the best defensive player available in the 2nd round.

It all depends on what we do in FA.

[Guest Nutty Sack]

Plaxico and Toomer are good starters

Jamaar Taylor has potential, he could still develop into a good WR

 

David Tyree also provides useful depth

 

I see our main problem is #3 WR. I think we are best suited to filling that need in free agency with someone like Jabaar Gaffney.

 

That would give us a pretty decent WR group:

 

Plaxico Burress

Amani Toomer

Jabaar Gaffney

Jamaar Taylor

David Tyree

 

we could also get a decent developmental WR on day 2 of the draft

 

 

Everyone is fixating on our receivers and paying any attention to how to get the ball in their hands.Have we already forgotten that our starting QB can't throw as demonstrated over the last 10 games of the season ??

 

We have much bigger fish to fry.

Edited March 1, 2006 by Nutty Sack

[gateb]

Everyone is fixating on our receivers and paying any attention to how to get the ball in their hands.Have we already forgotten that our starting QB can't throw as demonstrated over the last 10 games of the season ??

 

We have much bigger fish to fry.

Plax didn't do anything to make me feel better about this situation. He came up very small when we needed him the most.

[Currency]

If Tiki would have stayed in to block instead of running out in the flat, Plaxico goes all the way for 6 points... this offource assuming that Eli doesn't throw off his backfoot and miss an open Plaxi.