Whelp, it's time to start talking GM/HC again.

[Sephiroth]

Last time we had this discussion there were a lot of good candidates.  Unfortunately, the pair I had wanted most in that cycle (Joe Hortiz/Greg Roman) are currently with the 8-5 Chargers, along with the QB I had wanted to draft.  Pretty funny looking back at that post how Washington ended up with all of the bridesmaids from that cycle and are also 8-5. Also funny to think how giddy we all were about Schoen and Daboll;  they're flat-out awful. 

I haven't really started a deep dive yet but I'm hearing the Lions' team of Ray Agnew as GM and Ben Johnson as HC.  I remember Agnew as he was one of the first guys we signed (maybe the very first) when free agency became a thing.  Only other group I'm hearing buzz about is Belichick and Vrabel. 

I'm going to need to take a hard look at in-house candidate Brandon Brown too.  Apparently he was the guy in charge of all the trash-heap signings in 2021 that went on to be good performers for us (McCloud, Moreau, Hodgins, etc).  Also, if we don't sign him there's a chance he takes the entire fanbase out to the alley and whips our asses. 

What do you guys all think? 

 

 

[BlueInCanada]

Brown was apparently responsible for Banks.

So he can kiss the curb as well.

At this rate I don't think we bring anyone in worth a damn since they'll ask about Mara being involved and JR will show him the FO full of all his nepo hires and anyone with a brain will turn tail and run as far as they can away from the Giants.

Best bet would be we hire to off the wall college guys who somehow work out. 

Mara needs to take a large fucking step back but he won't.

And we'll be the same team we have been the past 10+ years. 

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Last time we had this discussion there were a lot of good candidates.  Unfortunately, the pair I had wanted most in that cycle (Joe Hortiz/Greg Roman) are currently with the 8-5 Chargers, along with the QB I had wanted to draft.  Pretty funny looking back at that post how Washington ended up with all of the bridesmaids from that cycle and are also 8-5. Also funny to think how giddy we all were about Schoen and Daboll;  they're flat-out awful. 

I haven't really started a deep dive yet but I'm hearing the Lions' team of Ray Agnew as GM and Ben Johnson as HC.  I remember Agnew as he was one of the first guys we signed (maybe the very first) when free agency became a thing.  Only other group I'm hearing buzz about is Belichick and Vrabel. 

I'm going to need to take a hard look at in-house candidate Brandon Brown too.  Apparently he was the guy in charge of all the trash-heap signings in 2021 that went on to be good performers for us (McCloud, Moreau, Hodgins, etc).  Also, if we don't sign him there's a chance he takes the entire fanbase out to the alley and whips our asses. 

What do you guys all think? 

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Brown was apparently responsible for Banks.

So he can kiss the curb as well.

At this rate I don't think we bring anyone in worth a damn since they'll ask about Mara being involved and JR will show him the FO full of all his nepo hires and anyone with a brain will turn tail and run as far as they can away from the Giants.

Best bet would be we hire to off the wall college guys who somehow work out. 

Mara needs to take a large fucking step back but he won't.

And we'll be the same team we have been the past 10+ years. 

 

I think you keep Brown and go the crazy college coach route and hire Agnew or someone else top notch as the GM.  Brown cannot be prefect... especially since Gettleman, Schoen and even JR.  Ass't GM is like Vice President... except for dumb fucks who don't know how the US system works and voted for the failed Queens Real Estate Developer to lower the price of eggs or something.

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

Brown was apparently responsible for Banks.

So he can kiss the curb as well.

I'm telling Brandon Brown you said that.

[Herc]

Did Agnew hire campbell?  Because whoever gave him a 6 year deal when all he had was interim hc experience shows me he knows wtf he’s doing 

[Iceman_NYG]

7 hours ago, Herc said:

Did Agnew hire campbell?  Because whoever gave him a 6 year deal when all he had was interim hc experience shows me he knows wtf he’s doing 

Exactly what I was gonna ask. Whoever hired Campbell needs to be our next GM.

[Herc]

Infuriating 

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, Herc said:

Infuriating 

Revisionist history IMO.

The media and fans were elated over the Schoen and Daboll hire. 

Just didn't work out. 

Also Horwitz didn't leave the Ravens till last year? He wouldn't of had the option of Harbaugh in 2022. 

[CrazedDogs]

8 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Revisionist history IMO.

The media and fans were elated over the Schoen and Daboll hire. 

Just didn't work out. 

Also Horwitz didn't leave the Ravens till last year? He wouldn't of had the option of Harbaugh in 2022. 

I think Harbaugh was available, he was coaching at Michigan. 

I can't get very invested in a fire this person, hire that person discussion until all the Mara fam is out of football ops. This clown assed process starts with them; I think without even realizing it, they hire people who tell them things they want to hear. Its fundamentally broken. 

Imagine you're on the job hunt, and there's this great opportunity, good pay, challenging, interesting work: you're tasked with turning an underperforming family-owned business around. The fam is directly involved in running the org, and they're interviewing you for the job. Now, how do you discuss turning that business around, without telling the people who are supposed to hire you and have been hands-on involved in running it into the ground.... that they fucked their shit up?

You don't.... instead, you say things like, well gosh, this could have worked, if only, and this could have worked, if only; gosh guys, all your decisions.... were good decisions. Golly, you guys are smart. What an honor it would be to work with you.  

I wager that is a near verbatim transcript of both the Gettleman and Schoen interviews. 

Hapsburg looking fuckers playing like they belong among actual men. Go breed a horse. 

 

[Sephiroth]

2 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I think Harbaugh was available, he was coaching at Michigan. 

I can't get very invested in a fire this person, hire that person discussion until all the Mara fam is out of football ops. This clown assed process starts with them; I think without even realizing it, they hire people who tell them things they want to hear. Its fundamentally broken. 

Imagine you're on the job hunt, and there's this great opportunity, good pay, challenging, interesting work: you're tasked with turning an underperforming family-owned business around. The fam is directly involved in running the org, and they're interviewing you for the job. Now, how do you discuss turning that business around, without telling the people who are supposed to hire you and have been hands-on involved in running it into the ground.... that they fucked their shit up?

You don't.... instead, you say things like, well gosh, this could have worked, if only, and this could have worked, if only; gosh guys, all your decisions.... were good decisions. Golly, you guys are smart. What an honor it would be to work with you.  

I wager that is a near verbatim transcript of both the Gettleman and Schoen interviews. 

Hapsburg looking fuckers playing like they belong among actual men. Go breed a horse. 

 

One of the podcasts that I listen to was discussing this... whenever you see Schoen and Brown out scouting top-end prospects... the third guy is always Tim McDonnell, who is John Mara's nephew.  It's hard to have an honest conversation about what you think about the franchise when Big Brother (literally) has his KGB agent on your ass the whole time. 

[Sephiroth]

I'm starting to really warm up to the idea of Will McClay from the Cowboys. 

Their drafts are good.  Ours are bad.  Plus we weaken a division rival who has intricate knowledge of how the Cowboys' front office works and can probably outmaneuver them. 

[Herc]

4 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I think Harbaugh was available, he was coaching at Michigan. 

I can't get very invested in a fire this person, hire that person discussion until all the Mara fam is out of football ops. This clown assed process starts with them; I think without even realizing it, they hire people who tell them things they want to hear. Its fundamentally broken. 

Imagine you're on the job hunt, and there's this great opportunity, good pay, challenging, interesting work: you're tasked with turning an underperforming family-owned business around. The fam is directly involved in running the org, and they're interviewing you for the job. Now, how do you discuss turning that business around, without telling the people who are supposed to hire you and have been hands-on involved in running it into the ground.... that they fucked their shit up?

You don't.... instead, you say things like, well gosh, this could have worked, if only, and this could have worked, if only; gosh guys, all your decisions.... were good decisions. Golly, you guys are smart. What an honor it would be to work with you.  

I wager that is a near verbatim transcript of both the Gettleman and Schoen interviews. 

Hapsburg looking fuckers playing like they belong among actual men. Go breed a horse. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

One of the podcasts that I listen to was discussing this... whenever you see Schoen and Brown out scouting top-end prospects... the third guy is always Tim McDonnell, who is John Mara's nephew.  It's hard to have an honest conversation about what you think about the franchise when Big Brother (literally) has his KGB agent on your ass the whole time. 

Right and this is the problem, they aren’t managing the cap, or directing team operations or marketing.  They’re extremely involved in personnel.  I don’t care how much they’ve learned on the job, they didn’t get there organically and I’m just not going to believe they’re the most qualified for these roles

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

9 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I think Harbaugh was available, he was coaching at Michigan. 

I can't get very invested in a fire this person, hire that person discussion until all the Mara fam is out of football ops. This clown assed process starts with them; I think without even realizing it, they hire people who tell them things they want to hear. Its fundamentally broken. 

Imagine you're on the job hunt, and there's this great opportunity, good pay, challenging, interesting work: you're tasked with turning an underperforming family-owned business around. The fam is directly involved in running the org, and they're interviewing you for the job. Now, how do you discuss turning that business around, without telling the people who are supposed to hire you and have been hands-on involved in running it into the ground.... that they fucked their shit up?

You don't.... instead, you say things like, well gosh, this could have worked, if only, and this could have worked, if only; gosh guys, all your decisions.... were good decisions. Golly, you guys are smart. What an honor it would be to work with you.  

I wager that is a near verbatim transcript of both the Gettleman and Schoen interviews. 

Hapsburg looking fuckers playing like they belong among actual men. Go breed a horse. 

 

This in spades.... also with Young the NFL commissioner got directly involved because the Giants and Steelers built the league and the Duke Wellington Mara and his nephew were at loggerheads fucking up the Giants of the 70's.  Pete Rozell brought in Young to fix the Giants.  That is what we need now.  An involved commissioner and a dethroned Mara family because they are pure Jack All Shit. 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

7 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

One of the podcasts that I listen to was discussing this... whenever you see Schoen and Brown out scouting top-end prospects... the third guy is always Tim McDonnell, who is John Mara's nephew.  It's hard to have an honest conversation about what you think about the franchise when Big Brother (literally) has his KGB agent on your ass the whole time. 

This... CD had it right... these are the incestuos Austrian Hapsburgs in ints entirety...

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

5 hours ago, Herc said:

 

Right and this is the problem, they aren’t managing the cap, or directing team operations or marketing.  They’re extremely involved in personnel.  I don’t care how much they’ve learned on the job, they didn’t get there organically and I’m just not going to believe they’re the most qualified for these roles

So much wisdom Herc, pure nepotistic management politics at play with not qualified people.

[Mr. P]

How many family members were on the staff when we won in 07 and 11?

[Herc]

McDonnell was hired in 2012 and Chris Mara was promoted to senior level in 2011

[Mr. P]

38 minutes ago, Herc said:

McDonnell was hired in 2012 and Chris Mara was promoted to senior level in 2011

Is it about those guys or family on the staff in general?

[BlueInCanada]

22 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

Is it about those guys or family on the staff in general?

Mostly those guys.

Mara rode on the success of his father's built team in 2007/2011.

EA, JR, Eli, Coughlin- they were all SR decisions and architects in those two SB runs. 

JRs hires since then have been Gettleman, McAddo, Judge, Schoen and Daboll.

Not saying senior was some untouchable football god he had his major faults as well.

But Mara hasn't been able to create or sustain any success without his father's decisions or influence on the team.

He needs to take a step back, whatever that may look like. 

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, Mr. P said:

Is it about those guys or family on the staff in general?

Family in general. Ownership never reports to their employees. They can structure it however convoluted way they like, but Tim doesn’t really report to Joe; the boss reports to the employee. 
 

so there is a dynamic where even a strong boss can’t help but reinforce the preference of the owner-employee, they can’t prevent, they can only productively redirect. 
 

I have worked at a family owned business that has attempted outside leadership over family employees. It doesn’t work. It’s almost as ineffective as letting the owners kid be the boss outright! 

[Mr. P]

10 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

Family in general. Ownership never reports to their employees. They can structure it however convoluted way they like, but Tim doesn’t really report to Joe; the boss reports to the employee. 
 

so there is a dynamic where even a strong boss can’t help but reinforce the preference of the owner-employee, they can’t prevent, they can only productively redirect. 
 

I have worked at a family owned business that has attempted outside leadership over family employees. It doesn’t work. It’s almost as ineffective as letting the owners kid be the boss outright! 

 

 

This is why I asked how many family members were on the staff during our winning years. 
 

 

 

To me it sounds like scapegoating and letting bad GM’s off the hook   
 

 

im not buying the narrative that the GM is longing to make other decisions but is just bowing to the demands of the Mara family    
 

besides, if that’s the case i want Schoen gone even more 

 

[CrazedDogs]

5 hours ago, Mr. P said:

This is why I asked how many family members were on the staff during our winning years. 
 

To me it sounds like scapegoating and letting bad GM’s off the hook   
 

im not buying the narrative that the GM is longing to make other decisions but is just bowing to the demands of the Mara family    
 

besides, if that’s the case i want Schoen gone even more 

 

no, there was not as much Mara family involvement in football ops back then. I don't think there was much of any from 1979 through 2010. 

But even if there was --- look at the Bengals, bad process sometimes lucks into good results for a little while. (Burrow, Chase, Higgens.... these guys are getting fed the fuck up with the org's ma & pa mickey mouse bullshit.)

My point isn't to let Schoen or anyone off the hook. I'm simply much more indifferent to the GM than I otherwise would be, because whether he stays or goes doesn't matter quite as much as it would if people who helped the GM make those decisions were not also hiring the next GM. 

We need a new George Young. Someone from the outside who is empowered to tell John, Chris, and Little Timmy that they done fucked the fuck up. 

[Mr. P]

1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

no, there was not as much Mara family involvement in football ops back then. I don't think there was much of any from 1979 through 2010. 

But even if there was --- look at the Bengals, bad process sometimes lucks into good results for a little while. (Burrow, Chase, Higgens.... these guys are getting fed the fuck up with the org's ma & pa mickey mouse bullshit.)

My point isn't to let Schoen or anyone off the hook. I'm simply much more indifferent to the GM than I otherwise would be, because whether he stays or goes doesn't matter quite as much as it would if people who helped the GM make those decisions were not also hiring the next GM. 

We need a new George Young. Someone from the outside who is empowered to tell John, Chris, and Little Timmy that they done fucked the fuck up. 

 

 

disagree, I think we just need a competent GM.  
 

 

 

[Herc]

Hopefully if we find him he won’t look too nervous at a job interview 🙄

[CrazedDogs]

2 hours ago, Mr. P said:

 

 

disagree, I think we just need a competent GM.  
 

 

 

That would be a good start!