Pretend You're John Mara

[Sephiroth]

What do you do with the front office?

You've put a lot of resources into Schoen's vision. You've revamped your technology and scouting department, etc... hired a package deal with the GM and HC... and while the roster is maybe a little better than 3 years ago, Schoen still hasn't drafted a proven impact player. Incredibly, there's a case to be made that Gettleman had done better in the draft (Saquon, McKinney, Thomas, and Lawrence are all A-grade players). 

Daboll came out hot, but has cooled off considerably since his first season. Most of those wins in that season were one-score as well, and these past two years have just been abysmal. On the other hand, he's also been saddled with Daniel Jones, and it's tough to win with a QB who is so limited and slow in his reads. I almost wonder if his comments that DJ "gives us the best chance to win" is an underhanded slight of Schoen and his roster mismanagement.

Jones is gone, but have either of these guys earned the right to pick the next guy? Or should it be a clean sweep and start from scratch again? What do you all think?

[BlueInCanada]

I fire them both.

However I keep my brother (Chris), business partner (McDonnel) and Kevin Abrams as heads of their departments because I'm a narcissistic fuck and continue to let them influence my decisions regardless of the GM/HC I bring in.

Until Mara lets these guys go it will be the same shit-fest we've had the last 12+ years.

 

[Sephiroth]

Listen man... I hear what you're saying but you can't get rid of Kevin Abrams and that sweet fucking beard.

 

 

 

[BlueInCanada]

4 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Listen man... I hear what you're saying but you can't get rid of Kevin Abrams and that sweet fucking beard.

 

 

 

Although the beard is viking worthy, he's the VP of football operations and strategy, and his operations and strategy have been dog poop. 

[Mr. P]

Fire them. 

[gmenroc]

Depends on Shoen/Daboll.  They keep trotting Jones out there and he gets hurt and I lose my "out" from Jones contract this offseason -- they are gone.

If they trot him out there and he stays healthy, I pull them in my office 30 seconds after final whistle in week 18 and I try not to have a stroke while raging on them both about how close they were to getting shitcanned.

If at any point we are permanently out of a top 5 pick, I fire them both immediately

[BlueInCanada]

Just now, gmenroc said:

Depends on Shoen/Daboll.  They keep trotting Jones out there and he gets hurt and I lose my "out" from Jones contract this offseason -- they are gone.

If they trot him out there and he stays healthy, I pull them in my office 30 seconds after final whistle in week 18 and I try not to have a stroke while raging on them both about how close they were to getting shitcanned.

If at any point we are permanently out of a top 5 pick, I fire them both immediately

Coaches/players don't tank though.

Unless Daboll just rigs the playcalling.

[Herc]

I think schoen bought himself another year with this draft.  Dabol I can take or leave (leaning leave with the coaching talent available this offseason) but if he comes back I’d rather he not call plays 

[Tempest]

I'd tell the media to fuck themselves.

John Mara has done everything the fans have demanded the last few years:  He fired everyone and brought in all new people. 

Joe Schoen has rebuilt football operations to the modern NFL standard.  I wonder if Brian Daboll really has the temperament to run an NFL team at the head coach level but he hasn't lost the locker room so his angry gameday personality works for him.

We have given Daniel Jones every opportunity to succeed this season as a QB and he has blown it, some games worse than others.  He is a good player but he is more dynamic as a runner than a passer which makes him more like Tim Tebow than the favorable Eli/Peyton Manning comparison.

You sit Daniel Jones to save $23 million when you cut him.  Drew Lock was never the answer if Daniel Jones faltered, start Tommy DeVito get the circus going.

[jranieli]

Tough call, but the biggest problem are the Mara brothers and Abrams. I agree with Blue. I don't think Daboll deserves to go down because of Jones. Jones is being paid all that money. He has to play. I would give him and Shoen a two year extension with their QB. 

[gmenroc]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

Coaches/players don't tank though.

Unless Daboll just rigs the playcalling.

They prolly should

[boohyah]

I don't do anything with the front office. Just play out the season at this point. Jones will be gone next season. They will draft a qb to replace him and Daboll will get the guy he wants. The worst thing that happened here is that the Giants overperformed the first season. Jones gets his contract which you could hardly fault them doing. Their worst season of the 3 was last season, when Jones goes down and Daboll couldn't get his fucking coaches in line and did a bad job himself. He's been better this year, but whereas in Season 1 he worked better with his limits, this season he's running the offense and Jones isn't up to it.

Schoen has revamped the organization, Bringing them up to speed with everyone else in terms of drafting and scouting. Basically the structure is better now. You can complain about his misses in the draft but if you go back to them at that time, the players he picked were players that would have been picked in and around that spot. Evan Neal was a top 10 pick for everyone no matter what team.  Some of his later round picks are headscratchers but he's got it right this year, and apart from the puzzling Drew Lock contract, he's done okay in free agency. He's getting killed on the Saquon issue, but I am with him on that one.  Are we really missing McKinney?, what did he do that makes you think we'd be much better if he was still with us. He's extended Lawrence and Thomas early which is big.  The offensive line is better. He's done good business on trades even the Darren Waller one because he can't be blamed with Waller just deciding to retire. Overall, he's better than what we had before.

If we are in this mess this time next year, I raise my hands. No excuse then. But right now and for stability stake, these guys should be left alone.

 

[Virginia Giant]

34 minutes ago, Herc said:

I think schoen bought himself another year with this draft.  Dabol I can take or leave (leaning leave with the coaching talent available this offseason) but if he comes back I’d rather he not call plays 

Pretty much where in at. 
 

i think it’s hard to fire either when Jones is just so bad and has gotten worse and worse under each new coach. Today, if just an average QB was staring for the giants, we probably score 30 points. The plays were there, open wrs all day that Jones just can’t find or hit.  
 

i think Shoen has done fine. Looking through his drafts, I like most of his picks. Jones was his big mistake, but what was he supposed to do?  Playoff win in a season he looked reasonably competent and if that was the real Jones it sets the rebuild ahead by years. 
 

but I wouldn’t get upset of both were fired. There is no right or wrong answer with either one. But in less attached to Daboll. I’ve still got the bad taste in my mouth from when he threw the tablet. And he’s still too emotionally volatile. 

[gmenroc]

I would also include Nabors on the QB talks in the offseason...consider who he wants.

[Sephiroth]

8 hours ago, boohyah said:

 You can complain about his misses in the draft but if you go back to them at that time, the players he picked were players that would have been picked in and around that spot.  

 

Sorry boo but that's a hard disagree. Aside from the first round Schoen's entire first draft was reaches and it's really biting the team in the ass now. Dane Belton and Ezeudu were projected fifth-rounders, Wandale was a late 2/early 3, McKethan was not expected to be drafted, etc. To be fair though he has gotten much better in this regard in his next two drafts. 

[Virginia Giant]

3 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Sorry boo but that's a hard disagree. Aside from the first round Schoen's entire first draft was reaches and it's really biting the team in the ass now. Dane Belton and Ezeudu were projected fifth-rounders, Wandale was a late 2/early 3, McKethan was not expected to be drafted, etc. To be fair though he has gotten much better in this regard in his next two drafts. 

Are you arguing that Wandale was a miss though?  If Eli was his QB I think he’d look ever bit the player Steve Smith was for us, comparably drafted.  Maybe Shoen saw more value in him than predraft experts, or maybe another Gm saw that same value and drafts him 5 spots after us. 
 

and Belton, for a 4th rd pick has contributed to the team above his draft position. 

[Sephiroth]

59 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

Are you arguing that Wandale was a miss though?  If Eli was his QB I think he’d look ever bit the player Steve Smith was for us, comparably drafted.  Maybe Shoen saw more value in him than predraft experts, or maybe another Gm saw that same value and drafts him 5 spots after us. 
 

and Belton, for a 4th rd pick has contributed to the team above his draft position. 

I think Wandale was a reach. He's an ok-to-good player, but not a real difference-maker and WAY too many drops. As with most players on the roster, he just doesn't do enough. Trey McBride or George Pickens should have been the pick there. 

I think Belton is the perfect example of how as a fanbase we're too used to how horrible our rosters/drafts are. Sure he has some INTs, but he's poor overall in coverage, consistently grades out in the bottom-third at his position, isn't a starter, and doesn't pass the eye test. Julian Love (another above-average forgotten Gettleman pick) is a good example of a fourth-round safety that punched above his weight; Dane Belton is literally just another guy.  We're just used to never getting value out of our picks so we put a "pretty good" tag on him when in reality he's more of a fringe roster/practice squad guy. 

[Mr. P]

13 hours ago, jranieli said:

Tough call, but the biggest problem are the Mara brothers and Abrams. I agree with Blue. I don't think Daboll deserves to go down because of Jones. Jones is being paid all that money. He has to play. I would give him and Shoen a two year extension with their QB. 

 

Jones is their qb, he became theirs the moment they signed him to the extension. 

[gmenroc]

3 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I think Wandale was a reach. He's an ok-to-good player, but not a real difference-maker and WAY too many drops. As with most players on the roster, he just doesn't do enough. Trey McBride or George Pickens should have been the pick there. 

I think Belton is the perfect example of how as a fanbase we're too used to how horrible our rosters/drafts are. Sure he has some INTs, but he's poor overall in coverage, consistently grades out in the bottom-third at his position, isn't a starter, and doesn't pass the eye test. Julian Love (another above-average forgotten Gettleman pick) is a good example of a fourth-round safety that punched above his weight; Dane Belton is literally just another guy.  We're just used to never getting value out of our picks so we put a "pretty good" tag on him when in reality he's more of a fringe roster/practice squad guy. 

Disagree on Robinson.  Think he could absolutely fill a Steve Smith, Mr. First Down kinda guy.  Find the hole in a zone defense, sit down and own the shit out of the middle of a defense.

Agree 1000% on Belton.  Though I think Love was/is a solid starter in this league.  Said it when he left, he was gonna be missed more than anyone realized at that time.

2 hours ago, Mr. P said:

 

Jones is their qb, he became theirs the moment they signed him to the extension. 

I don't fault them for Jones.  Him being drafted in the 1st was not great, but had more to do with timing of our needing a QB.  We should have gone free agent route and picked someone else.  Resigning him was much the same

[BronxRik]

I'm sorry but I don't think it was a need at the time. We still had Eli, and I'm pretty sure that, while Eli was aging, he was still 100 times better than Jones. We did need to plan for the future, but Eli had at least another season or two in him. Of course, at the time, everyone was happy with Jones' mobility and his passing (Danny Dimes), making Eli's loss sting a little less. I know all about the line excuses, the talent around him, etc., but after 6 seasons Jones should have accomplished far more than fleecing the Giants for $160 million. 

I apologize for the saltiness, I have to work on Veteran's day, and it's a shit day in the copier world. 

[jranieli]

The Giants had other needs when they drafted Jones. That was a mistake on Mara and Gettleman. I would like to know how it all went down when Judge benched Eli. The franchise panicked. Maybe Eli felt he couldn't do it anymore. I was never really comfortable with him being benched for Geno. 

[Sephiroth]

6 hours ago, gmenroc said:

Disagree on Robinson.  Think he could absolutely fill a Steve Smith, Mr. First Down kinda guy.  Find the hole in a zone defense, sit down and own the shit out of the middle of a defense.

Agree 1000% on Belton.  Though I think Love was/is a solid starter in this league.  Said it when he left, he was gonna be missed more than anyone realized at that time.

I don't fault them for Jones.  Him being drafted in the 1st was not great, but had more to do with timing of our needing a QB.  We should have gone free agent route and picked someone else.  Resigning him was much the same

I just feel like Tank Dell is a similar, yet better player and he was taken in the third. I'm not a fan of the physically limited, one-trick pony, role player types in the first two rounds. Same problem I had with Engram.

[boohyah]

12 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Sorry boo but that's a hard disagree. Aside from the first round Schoen's entire first draft was reaches and it's really biting the team in the ass now. Dane Belton and Ezeudu were projected fifth-rounders, Wandale was a late 2/early 3, McKethan was not expected to be drafted, etc. To be fair though he has gotten much better in this regard in his next two drafts. 

When you start getting into the later rounds, it's all over the place. The problem with that draft is that somewhere in the later rounds, he didn't strike it lucky with any player and we had 10 picks. 7 are still playing but no studs at all. 

[Sephiroth]

As of right now, I'm a little unsure as to what I would do, but gun to my head I'd clean house and let a new front office take over.  This roster is just not significantly improved from the 2020/2021 team.  The rookies are encouraging, but I don't think I'm ok with 1/3 of my draft classes being good... those first two drafts were pretty bad, and while it's nice to finally have an NFL caliber o-line, building through free agency is just not sustainable.  

Like I said in another thread too, from an exceptional player/star standpoint, Gettleman was actually a better GM than Schoen.  I can't believe I'm tying that, but Schoen has yet to draft one star/true impact player. 

[BlueInCanada]

I've been saying it since the week one loss, Dabs and Schoen should be in the hot seat.

The team is still terrible three years later.

But whatever Mara decides I'm sure it won't work out in four years anyways lol