Flores suing nfl, giants, Broncos and dolphins

[Iceman_NYG]

This is ridiculous. First of all, Bill Belibitch fucked up. Second - nowhere does he say theyve already hired Daboll. He just says I heard you are their guy. Which is what everyone already knew once Schoen was onboard. It is only later on when Flores realised Belibitch was texting the wrong Brian (maybe on purpose) - that he became salty. Thank you Bill - that statement reeks of salt. He just lost his shit afterwards. 

But some of the other shit might hold some merit - The Dolphins owner offering him 100k to tank games, tampering with Brady to bring him to Miami etc.

The Denver allegation is again a bunch of bull i think - Everyone was 1 hour late and looked ragged and haggled and looked they they spent the previous night drinking heavily and just conducted a sham interview. Broncos have released their interview notes too which looks pretty fucking details to me and it was 3 hour interview. This dude is playing the racism card now because other teams felt they had better candidates.

I do admit - Dolphins shouldnt have fired him - the players responded to Flores and he kept them fighting throughout.

[Sephiroth]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:08 PM, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

Amazing what idiocy that family-owned operations deal in.  Tisch must be ready to go into orbit.  Just stupid garbage.  Had a feeling that something like this might happen to the Giants by hiring Daboll.  It seems that they were fixated on him even before interviewing Flores.  Time for the Rooney Rule to bite it... also owners have to start opening it up to wider set of possibilities.  What do they have to lose really?  Too many of these rich boys think they can skirt the rules because for too long they have been able to skirt the rules.  

 

On 2/1/2022 at 7:23 PM, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

I think Flores is a bit of a head case.  He should have gotten more of what he considers evidence IMHO.  They will pay him hush money to disappear.  He just ended his career in the NFL no matter what.   Hopefully he has his life all mapped out for himself.  These rich boys are brutal and very unforgiving.  He seems like the type that needs total control which is something he would never get here in family land.  So everyone is better off without each other.

I've been interested in hearing your opinion on this. To me, it's really difficult to take the side of a former high-end coordinator and head coach claiming that he's nit being considered for coordinator and coaching positions due to race... but I'm from whitebread land and I'll never truly understand the other side of the coin. 

On 2/1/2022 at 8:44 PM, boohyah said:

Why would he subject himself to sit in an interview with the Giants if he knows ahead of time what he does?. Why not reach out to Leslie Frazier and tell him not to bother doing a second interview one day later?. I don't get that part. He had his info for the lawsuit before he went in.

The rooney rule is a fucking joke, always has been. Truth is Pittsburgh is the only one where it's turned out well for with Tomlin. Other guys are not getting the shots they deserve. And if they fail, so fucking what, when you consider that guys like Doug Marrone/Rich Kotite/Pat Shurmur can get 2 coaching jobs in the league. Same with GM's. 

NFL and Broncos have responded. Nothing I see from the Dolphins and Giants.

 

 

 

I think the Rooney Rule is a mixed bag. The spirit of it is correct, but the application is very clumsy. My guess is that it would eventually lead to the hiring of more minority candidates; these teams all talk, so even in a case like the Giants where Daboll is "the guy," owners and GMs are gonna chat about who else interviewed well. 

[Nas]

19 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

With this Flores lawsuit this will probably make it harder for him.  

But the ties will turn... What happened to Kape was a shining example.... After listening more, I think Flores has a solid case... 

[Mr. P]

 

[BlueInCanada]

The funny thing is the thing that might come out of this isn't even minority coaches and the NFL Hill they face, but the fact that people finally realized that owners tank their teams for draft picks.

 

[Nas]

4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

The funny thing is the thing that might come out of this isn't even minority coaches and the NFL Hill they face, but the fact that people finally realized that owners tank their teams for draft picks.

 

Why shouldn’t they given the upside? The NFL needs to remove the incentive to tank and implement an NBA style draft style.

[GorillaNJ]

3 minutes ago, Nas said:

Why shouldn’t they given the upside? The NFL needs to remove the incentive to tank and implement an NBA style draft style.

NBA teams still tank to get better opportunities in the lottery.  I despise the idea of tanking or even rooting against your team in the last games of the season.  I really have no idea how to address it though.  Is the answer just unlimited free agency to college students under some dollar value per team?

[Mr. P]

Weird.  The guy who called Coughlin an asshole for winning “meaningless games” and screwing up our draft position is criticizing teams tanking now. 

[Nas]

3 hours ago, GorillaNJ said:

NBA teams still tank to get better opportunities in the lottery.  I despise the idea of tanking or even rooting against your team in the last games of the season.  I really have no idea how to address it though.  Is the answer just unlimited free agency to college students under some dollar value per team?

There will be less of an incentive to tank.

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, BlueInCanada said:

The funny thing is the thing that might come out of this isn't even minority coaches and the NFL Hill they face, but the fact that people finally realized that owners tank their teams for draft picks.

 

And dumb ass Hue Jackson was like '...and I was complicit!' 

If a team isn't trying to win, always, every game, it's a massive fraud. Not just to the ticket holders, but to the general public. To the extent that it's related to gambling, it may be a prison time level offense.

[CrazedDogs]

3 hours ago, Nas said:

But the ties will turn... What happened to Kape was a shining example.... After listening more, I think Flores has a solid case... 

The only thing that happened to Kaep was people looked at his game tape + his ridiculous salary demands and decided he wasn't a good enough player to justify it. He blacklisted himself with his unrealistic contract expectations. 

That info is overshadowed by his social justice cause, with which I'm in 100% solidarity. 

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, Nas said:

Why shouldn’t they given the upside? The NFL needs to remove the incentive to tank and implement an NBA style draft style.

But is there really an upside?.... Is the first overall pick player so much better than for ex. the fifth overall pick player that it justifies all the damage you can do to the organization by passing up the opportunity to win football games? 

I don't think so. We had a window into that when Philadelphia threw a game, their players were deeply alienated.

[Mr. P]

12 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

The only thing that happened to Kaep was people looked at his game tape + his ridiculous salary demands and decided he wasn't a good enough player to justify it. He blacklisted himself with his unrealistic contract expectations. 

That info is overshadowed by his social justice cause, with which I'm in 100% solidarity. 

What were his contract expectations?

[CrazedDogs]

12 minutes ago, Pdouble said:

What were his contract expectations?

IIRC, he was demanding top 5 avg salary. 

Whatever the number was, I remember reading it and thinking - well shit, you're not going to get signed dude!

Edit to add a quick Google, here is a bit of info from fairly recently, when a minor football league approached Kaepernick:

XFL and Kaepernick

$20 million per.... at the time that was top five QB money.

 

[boohyah]

I watched his interview with Greene on ESPN along with his lawyers and it just seemed off. This is a civil suit so they want more people to jump on board. But he never answered the question about why he showed up for the interview knowing what he knew, apart from his principles. The suit is both discrimination and throwing games, which are 2 different things clearly and would seem to also ask the question why did you not report it when it happened?

Just so many holes for a topic that is rightfully a problem in the league.

 

Oh and he's still up for the saints and Texans.

[Mr. P]

On 12/30/2013 at 11:07 AM, Nas said:

 

Yea we went from picking maybe 7th or 8th to fucking 12th because good old geezer Tom Cheerleader Coughlin flexed his muscles against the fucking lions and the fucking Redskins... I swear I'm getting sick of the Maras too...

 

On 12/30/2013 at 11:10 AM, Nas said:

 

Yes I did... why not? Why even play Eli yesterday? Coughlin could have "started" him for one series to keep the streak alive but do we really need our franchise QB out there in the rain risking an injury? Why not start Nassib to give him game time experience? Yes... I would have done things differently... a LOT differently. Winning against the lions and the redskins in meaningless games is just that.. meaningless... wanna show pride? Don't fucking bend over like a 2 cent slut the first 6 weeks of the season... oh shit you mean you didn't know our OL was bad? wtf was training camp for then?

 

On 12/7/2017 at 3:03 PM, Nas said:

It's called tanking a season...without looking like you're really doing it... Having players out there to "win" a meaningless games A. Places those players at higher chance of getting injured and B. Fucks up your draft positioning... I don't see the Browns winning 2 games so we're a lock for #2 unless this team fucks it up like it has all season long.

 

On 10/8/2018 at 8:46 AM, Nas said:

Thats the plan... this team better not fuck it up by winning meaningless games.... Ive already booked this season as a rebuilding year....

 

 

Glad you changed your tune on tanking. 

[Nas]

1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

But is there really an upside?.... Is the first overall pick player so much better than for ex. the fifth overall pick player that it justifies all the damage you can do to the organization by passing up the opportunity to win football games? 

I don't think so. We had a window into that when Philadelphia threw a game, their players were deeply alienated.

Evidently there is: Joe Burrow

[Nas]

1 hour ago, CrazedDogs said:

The only thing that happened to Kaep was people looked at his game tape + his ridiculous salary demands and decided he wasn't a good enough player to justify it. He blacklisted himself with his unrealistic contract expectations. 

That info is overshadowed by his social justice cause, with which I'm in 100% solidarity. 

I wasn’t aware of the salary demands.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

5 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

 

I've been interested in hearing your opinion on this. To me, it's really difficult to take the side of a former high-end coordinator and head coach claiming that he's nit being considered for coordinator and coaching positions due to race... but I'm from whitebread land and I'll never truly understand the other side of the coin. 

I think the Rooney Rule is a mixed bag. The spirit of it is correct, but the application is very clumsy. My guess is that it would eventually lead to the hiring of more minority candidates; these teams all talk, so even in a case like the Giants where Daboll is "the guy," owners and GMs are gonna chat about who else interviewed well. 

It is a double-edged sword with the racism thing.  I think he faced some discrimination in Miami especially.  A lot of it was rich boy thinking he could do anything.  Not much respect in the Denver interview IMHO as you have to show respect even in interviews you know are pro forma.  I think the Giants got themselves in trouble by leaking that they were interested in just these two in Daboll and Flores.  They should have stuck to their MO in saying that five or so candidates had a real shot at it.  Safety in numbers and all that. 

Flores should have gathered more real evidence and he needed to be in deep touch with an anti-discrimination lawyer and not free lanced this stuff.  He also made it harder for other minority candidates including Graham.  He did no one any favors.  He should have stayed in Miami as his tough love had them producing except for rich boys and their toys.  The Rooney rule is good and bad.  The rich boy owners have to start having real open interviews of real talented coaches as their collective track records leave much to be desired.  That way they could avoid this.

As it stands Flores burned his bridges and for his sake, I hope there is more to this than the stuff leaked to the public.  This is par for the course for qualified minority candidates.  There usually is some residual racism, however if your resume is all shiny you will get the big job.  Sometimes the thing you don't get is the best thing.  I really believe that Flores did not fit well with the Mara's.  He could have fit in with Tisch who believes in being an absentee owner and does not get involved in day-to-day operations.  The Maras are the centerpiece for IN, as in Incompetent Nepotism.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

6 hours ago, Nas said:

But the ties will turn... What happened to Kape was a shining example.... After listening more, I think Flores has a solid case... 

For sure.  It did not come out in the post but he will be better off in the long run.  The Giants were not a good fit for him.  Now maybe some of the rich and good old boy cronyism will crumble some more.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

2 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

And dumb ass Hue Jackson was like '...and I was complicit!' 

If a team isn't trying to win, always, every game, it's a massive fraud. Not just to the ticket holders, but to the general public. To the extent that it's related to gambling, it may be a prison time level offense.

WWF/WWE here we come.  In a related vein it might not be by coincidence that they don't have professional referees.  This tanking stuff is explosive.  Protect your star players but play to win the games.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

2 hours ago, boohyah said:

I watched his interview with Greene on ESPN along with his lawyers and it just seemed off. This is a civil suit so they want more people to jump on board. But he never answered the question about why he showed up for the interview knowing what he knew, apart from his principles. The suit is both discrimination and throwing games, which are 2 different things clearly and would seem to also ask the question why did you not report it when it happened?

Just so many holes for a topic that is rightfully a problem in the league.

 

Oh and he's still up for the saints and Texans.

He would have protected himself better by being involved with a lawyer on retainer for at least during Miami with all of this documented.  It is what I did during my suit and I won relatively easily.  IMHO the NFL will get together and settle at least the discrimination part out of court.  Flores will get paid back handsomely and future real prospects will be considered and chosen.

[BronxRik]

Couple of things. Since when is someone's opinion fact? Billichick said "I think they're hiring Daboll. Sorry about that". Who gives a shit what Billichick thinks? I think the Giants should trade away 5 and 7. So fucking what. 

 

Rooney rule also says teams have to interview 2 minorities. This stinks of affirmative action in the 70's. Owners look around, talk to their personnel and I'm sure they say something like "Look at that Daboll guy up in Buffalo. He's a winner. We want winners on this team, we have to get him this off season" OH, wait, we have to interview 2 minorities first. Just for the record, Flores' record is worse than Daboll's record, just sayin'. But they way they make this out is like that doesn't even matter, you interviewed me just to satisfy the Rooney rule. And that may be true, or not, but also look at what Elway had to say. https://www.nfl.com/news/broncos-exec-john-elway-statement-i-interviewed-brian-flores-in-good-faith

 

These owners have already picked who they want in their organizations long before they actually get them, is all I'm saying. Forcing them to interview certain people taints the pool of talent available. I don't know what the answer is, but forcing interviews doesn't seem to be working. 

 

 

 

[BlueInCanada]

Also I'd like to see the stats as well behind this but aren't minorities and women starting to fill the ranks outside of HC?

More and more coordinators and coaches, scouts and GMs are minorities and women as well. 

We just hired a woman to our scouting department. 

Sure I understand HC is still lacking but the only way to become a HC is to start elsewhere and hopefully in time guys start getting more opportunities. 

[BlueInCanada]

27 minutes ago, BronxRik said:

Couple of things. Since when is someone's opinion fact? Billichick said "I think they're hiring Daboll. Sorry about that". Who gives a shit what Billichick thinks? I think the Giants should trade away 5 and 7. So fucking what. 

 

Rooney rule also says teams have to interview 2 minorities. This stinks of affirmative action in the 70's. Owners look around, talk to their personnel and I'm sure they say something like "Look at that Daboll guy up in Buffalo. He's a winner. We want winners on this team, we have to get him this off season" OH, wait, we have to interview 2 minorities first. Just for the record, Flores' record is worse than Daboll's record, just sayin'. But they way they make this out is like that doesn't even matter, you interviewed me just to satisfy the Rooney rule. And that may be true, or not, but also look at what Elway had to say. https://www.nfl.com/news/broncos-exec-john-elway-statement-i-interviewed-brian-flores-in-good-faith

 

These owners have already picked who they want in their organizations long before they actually get them, is all I'm saying. Forcing them to interview certain people taints the pool of talent available. I don't know what the answer is, but forcing interviews doesn't seem to be working. 

 

 

 

That's the other thing.

As anyone can tell you in the NFL you only get one or two chances to show you are competent as a GM or HC. 

If I was a first year GM I'm going to bring guys in who've I've worked with before or know align with my ideas of building a team. Last thing I'd want to do is risk my career on someone fired from a team, never having worked with them before, or coming right from the college ranks unless I had a really good understanding of who they were and even then they would probably be my last option.

I'm sure if Daboll was a minority he would of been hired regardless. 

That's the problem with the NFL teams don't want to hire the unproven guy who might set you back 5 years, they want to grab guys from winning programs or those re treds because they know them already.