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The Official Judge Has Gotta Go Thread


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17 hours ago, NeMesiS said:

TBCV - You are mistaken my friend. The Redskins ran it in the 80's. The Cowboys in the 90's. The Rams in the early 2000's. Kansas City in the Mid 2000's and the Cowboys in the 2010's. Joe Gibbs was Dan Fouts offensive coordinator. Norv Turner was a assistant coach for Gibbs. Mike Martz was an offensive coordinator for Norv Turner. But you're right, without the right personnel, its runs the like the shit you see today. 

Thanks for letting me know.  Air Coryell is so old that I forgot its descendants.  The Giants definitely don't have the right personnel man.  

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2 hours ago, BronxRik said:

This losing shit sucks. We knew we were gonna be in rebuild mode, but holy fuck. Ownership is supposed to hire personnel to get players and a decent coaching staff. We have none of it and it shows. How long are fans of the "storied NY Giants" expected to put up with this shit? And dare I mention the lowly Jets? Oh, wait, we're just as lowly. The 2 NYC teams that share a stadium BOTH SUCK. So painful to say that and actually mean it. I love the Gmen but Holy God I'm just sick of the losing and false hope. 

1977 REDUX Bro.... all over again.  I am not waiting for the equivalent of 1981 whether they make the playoffs or not.  No way.  They have to start winning by next year.

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1 hour ago, Virginia Giant said:

That, and I still don't know what this team is trying to be, what there identify is on offense.  This team is should flow through Barkley, yet he hasn't carried the ball 20 times yet this year.  I know he is coming off the injury, but most of what he has been overcoming is the mental aspect of coming off an injury like that, and he needs to carry the ball to get that confidence. 

Other teams that have a true feature back run their guy 20+ times:  Cook, Henry, etc. 

Losing with evidence that a competitive program is being built is acceptable, losing with no evidence anyone, players or coaches, knows what they are doing at any given time, is not. Where were the designed QB runs that were so effective against Washington - completely abandoned against Atlanta.  How is that not a major part of the gameplan? 

There is nothing going on with this team that leads me to believe any improvements are coming.  Jones played adequate, not particularly good. 

Gettlemen, no matter what happens, needs to go.  If the Giants are a winning franchise in 3 years, is there anyone on the offenseive line today that will still be there at that time?  Thomas maybe?  His entire tenure has been about putting other teams castoffs into the starting lineup on the offensive line. 

How is there such regression this year?  How is Jones in year 3 of his career and apparently has not been coached on sliding correctly (though Eli had issues with that 10 years into his career) or securing the ball?  How does he not have an internal clock yet?  When the game plan is designed to get the ball out of his hands fast, he does okay, but if he has to go through reads, he just lacks the mechanism that says danger approaching.  And for me, from what I have seen, Jones isn't the reason we're losing. The Denver game wasn't great, but he played well against Washington and played well enough to win against Atlanta. 

There are two things that are completely true:  If the Giants have the lead late in the game, have the ball, with the chance to ice it, they won't.  If the Giants have the lead late in the game and the defense has the chance to hold, they won't.  It is automaticc.  3 minutes left in the game, they will run 3 and out and the opposing team will march down the field. 

Penalties, poor decisions, inconsistent weekly schemes - nobody knows who the Giants are or even who they want to be.

It’s amazing how 0-3 brings out all the stink.   This team goes 3-0 the next three games and suddenly all of this disappears.  
 

Barkley is being eased into the game…. And I don’t want to see designed QB runs except rarely to catch defenses off guard…

it’s true that so far our D fails to make that one stop and our O fails to get that one 1st down… hopefully they get it together next week because seeing this board implodes is tough to watch.

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59 minutes ago, Nas said:

It’s amazing how 0-3 brings out all the stink.   This team goes 3-0 the next three games and suddenly all of this disappears.  
 

Barkley is being eased into the game…. And I don’t want to see designed QB runs except rarely to catch defenses off guard…

it’s true that so far our D fails to make that one stop and our O fails to get that one 1st down… hopefully they get it together next week because seeing this board implodes is tough to watch.

If we go 3-0, of course this will happen, but we all know this is highly unlikely.

Going into the season, I honestly thought we had a pretty decent off-season, minus the OL, and were a 7-8 win team. Now we're looking more like a 4-5 win team AT BEST.

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10 minutes ago, mastershake said:

If we go 3-0, of course this will happen, but we all know this is highly unlikely.

Going into the season, I honestly thought we had a pretty decent off-season, minus the OL, and were a 7-8 win team. Now we're looking more like a 4-5 win team AT BEST.

I get it’s very difficult to go 3-0 and I’m going against the grain here… The point I was making is that winning masks a lot of problems and losing magnifies them…. 

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4 hours ago, NeMesiS said:

Man… I hate to say it. But I think we need to bench Saquon. Looking at the game again, he looks like he left a lot of yards out there. And he’s not a very good pass blocker either. This dude dances way too much. Somebody needs to talk to about that… the big yards will come naturally. 

The open field play where he couldn’t beat a guy with a blocker in front of him was eye opening 

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2 hours ago, Herc said:

The open field play where he couldn’t beat a guy with a blocker in front of him was eye opening 

He has absolutely no idea how to use leverage... he is used to the college do it all by himself on ability alone.  These guys watch more film than an entire college team.  He is the return of Ron Dayne.

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6 hours ago, Herc said:

The open field play where he couldn’t beat a guy with a blocker in front of him was eye opening 


You mean the play where Bredeson completely whiffed in the open field block?

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9 minutes ago, Joe Guyden said:


You mean the play where Bredeson completely whiffed in the open field block?

Yes.  He should be beating that guy with nobody there.  A corpse in front of him is still in that defender’s way

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16 minutes ago, Herc said:

Yes.  He should be beating that guy with nobody there.  A corpse in front of him is still in that defender’s way


 

He probably beats him one on one, but played it differently since he thought there was a block.  To my eyes at least. 

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8 hours ago, Herc said:

The open field play where he couldn’t beat a guy with a blocker in front of him was eye opening 

is that the play where he ran in front and to the right of the blocker, rather than behind and to the blocker's left, up the sideline?

 

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Yes, and PDub is right that the guy completely fucked up on the block but I just don’t think that should’ve mattered when you have that much space and a big lug in between you and the defender who makes any kind of contact.  Oh well, it was a great play by Jones on 3rd down I guess 

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11 hours ago, Nas said:

I get it’s very difficult to go 3-0 and I’m going against the grain here… The point I was making is that winning masks a lot of problems and losing magnifies them…. 

Saints,  cowboys,  rams. Which of those 2 do you think this team can beat?  Hell, which ONE of those? 

Of course winning masks problems,  because it means the problems are small enough to overcome. All teams have problems they have to overcome,  some teams just have so many big problems,  there is no overcoming them. That's where the giants are. 

On the remaining schedule,  I can identify maybe 2 wins. We'll probably win more,  but realistically based on current roster,  there are two games i think we SHOULD win. And even those teams have a game plan for their future. 

The giants are just lost. The years in we don't know if we have a qb, we're badly coached, can't beat bad teams,  commit constant heart breaking penalties,  can't score,  have regressed defensively,  have no offensive line, huge question with our former 2nd overall pick. Multiple to 10 picks on this roster,  which of them have proven they belonged in that draft position?  

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28 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

Saints,  cowboys,  rams. Which of those 2 do you think this team can beat?  Hell, which ONE of those? 

Of course winning masks problems,  because it means the problems are small enough to overcome. All teams have problems they have to overcome,  some teams just have so many big problems,  there is no overcoming them. That's where the giants are. 

On the remaining schedule,  I can identify maybe 2 wins. We'll probably win more,  but realistically based on current roster,  there are two games i think we SHOULD win. And even those teams have a game plan for their future. 

The giants are just lost. The years in we don't know if we have a qb, we're badly coached, can't beat bad teams,  commit constant heart breaking penalties,  can't score,  have regressed defensively,  have no offensive line, huge question with our former 2nd overall pick. Multiple to 10 picks on this roster,  which of them have proven they belonged in that draft position?  

And you think getting rid of the new coach barely into his 2nd season is the solution?    I'm not disputing any of the problems you stated; I see a team trying to get it together and a FO that's has not made the best of decisions at times... I'm not defending the FO... I'm defending the coach who I feel needs more time to show if he's worth a damn or not... 

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My thing is the accountability.

He talks the talk about being a team that isnt going to make mistakes or beat themselves, play sound smart hard nosed football and it's just nothing of what we've seen out there.

But all he says is "we have a good team and got to look at the tapes" on repeat. 

How about some actual leadership here Judge. Go out and hold the coordinators you hired accountable.

Graham's defense is headed for bottom 30 of the NFL and can't stop anyone when it matters most.

Garretts offense is headed for ANOTHER year of being the worst in the NFL, and can't finish drives. 

These are guys Judge hired guys Judge wanted. It's basically a copy and paste of last year. 

Add to that the lack of awareness in game situations, he's tendency to call time outs when their not needed and he can't win a challenge to save his life, year two is off to a bad start.

For example Judge calls a timeout when the Falcons are on the goal line because the defense is all confused. 

They all meet on the sideline and you see him and Graham talking. 

You would think the defense would come out and look ready but no they are still pointing at each other like they have no idea what's happening and the Falcons walk in for an easy score. 

This team has no heart outside of a handful of guys. It honestly looks like they are all numb to these situations and expect to loose.

It all starts at the top. Judge is responsible for his coordinators running a league worst team, he's responsible for these last minute collapses, he's responsible for this team looking like it has the last two years, which is one of the worst teams in the NFL. 

He's the head coach. 

 

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The verdict on Judge: Guilty of a lot

When Judge gave his season-ending press conference via Zoom last year, he didn’t plan to rant about the Eagles, who tanked their final game for better draft positioning, keeping the Giants out of the playoffs. If the Eagles had beaten Washington, the Giants would’ve been 6-10 division winners and played Tom Brady and the Buccaneers, at home, in the first round of the playoffs.

Judge and others in the Giants organization, multiple people told NJ Advance Media, believed they could’ve beaten the Bucs, who eventually won the Super Bowl. Earlier in the season, the Giants had scared the Bucs in a 25-23 loss.

Fans and Giants players appreciated Judge’s message. Most loved his approach, even as he was mocked nationally for making his players run laps in practice after making mistakes. Fans, convinced Judge would be their team’s savior, honored him before a training camp practice at MetLife by running an honorary lap around the parking lot.

That love is fading.

The Giants have been an undisciplined team this season — even though Judge preaches about discipline and attention to detail. The Giants aren’t losing on purpose like the Eagles — but that doesn’t make their losses less embarrassing.

“Being a hard ass is not forcing players to run after mistakes,” Schwartz said. “Andy Reid, he runs a tough training camp. It’s hitting. He has no vet off days. He is a tough coach. But yelling and screaming and making guys run laps and sprints, that’s not being tough. I don’t think that’s old school, in my opinion. I just don’t think that really builds camaraderie like he thinks it does. The running stuff just kind of rubs me wrong.
 

“Giants fans are going to kill me and call me soft, but the results so far on the field have spoken for themselves.”

The on-field issues start with Judge, who had zero head-coaching or play-calling experience (at any level) before being hired. He threw a challenge flag in Week 1 on a play that wasn’t challengeable, and that cost the Giants a timeout. In Week 2, the Giants were penalized 11 times — including an offsides penalty on a missed field goal attempt that ultimately cost them the game. In Week 3, Judge burned two timeouts within the first five minutes of the fourth quarter, and the Giants committed eight penalties.

“I do think that when you brand yourself as a discipline coach and your team plays with a lack of discipline, that’s a problem,” Schwartz said.

And then there’s Jason Garrett, the offensive coordinator many believe was foisted upon Judge at Mara’s direction. Judge tried interviewing Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, but was denied the request by Buffalo.

Last week, Golladay — frustrated at not being utilized — yelled at Garrett on the sideline, like wide receiver Golden Tate did last year. Toney pouted on the sideline and complained on social media for similar reasons. The Giants were the second-worst scoring offense in the NFL last season, and Jones threw only 11 touchdown passes in 14 games. They scored 14 points against the Falcons defense on Sunday, which had allowed the most points in the NFL.

Judge could’ve moved on from Garrett after the season, but he stuck with him. Former NFL quarterback Kurt Warner went into detail recently about how Garrett has hamstrung the offense with his bland play-calling.

“It’s hard to judge what the Giants’ offense could be because they’re held back by the play-caller,” Schwartz said. Added Palazzo: “There’s definitely more (Garrett) can do to open things up.”

But Garrett might be a victim of the offensive line, too. Judge, who has been hands-on with the unit, fired coach Marc Colombo at midseason last year, replaced him with Dave DeGuglielmo, and then hired Sale from the college ranks. Judge likely played a role in the decision not to make any moves to improve the line.

“It’s almost like (Garrett) has got one hand tied behind his back as he play-calls,” Barber said. “There’s no time to let anything develop. (A bad offensive line) hamstrings everything.”

Giants fans fell in love with Judge during his introductory press conference in January 2020, when he sounded like cross between Bill Parcells and Tom Coughlin.

“I don’t really know Joe. I’ve spoken with him a couple of times and that’s about it,” Parcells said, “But it’s a tough business he’s in.”

And a tough market.

“A lot of people have mentioned the honeymoon period is over, and I hate that term, but it’s true,” Feagles said. “You’ve got to start winning some games.”
 

 

https://www.nj.com/giants/2021/09/people-around-nfl-agree-giants-cant-draft-coach-or-play-they-wonder-what-if-anything-is-john-mara-going-to-do-about-this-mess.html?outputType=amp
 

 


 

 

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2 hours ago, Joe Guyden said:

The verdict on Judge: Guilty of a lot

When Judge gave his season-ending press conference via Zoom last year, he didn’t plan to rant about the Eagles, who tanked their final game for better draft positioning, keeping the Giants out of the playoffs. If the Eagles had beaten Washington, the Giants would’ve been 6-10 division winners and played Tom Brady and the Buccaneers, at home, in the first round of the playoffs.

Judge and others in the Giants organization, multiple people told NJ Advance Media, believed they could’ve beaten the Bucs, who eventually won the Super Bowl. Earlier in the season, the Giants had scared the Bucs in a 25-23 loss.

Fans and Giants players appreciated Judge’s message. Most loved his approach, even as he was mocked nationally for making his players run laps in practice after making mistakes. Fans, convinced Judge would be their team’s savior, honored him before a training camp practice at MetLife by running an honorary lap around the parking lot.

That love is fading.

The Giants have been an undisciplined team this season — even though Judge preaches about discipline and attention to detail. The Giants aren’t losing on purpose like the Eagles — but that doesn’t make their losses less embarrassing.

“Being a hard ass is not forcing players to run after mistakes,” Schwartz said. “Andy Reid, he runs a tough training camp. It’s hitting. He has no vet off days. He is a tough coach. But yelling and screaming and making guys run laps and sprints, that’s not being tough. I don’t think that’s old school, in my opinion. I just don’t think that really builds camaraderie like he thinks it does. The running stuff just kind of rubs me wrong.
 

“Giants fans are going to kill me and call me soft, but the results so far on the field have spoken for themselves.”

The on-field issues start with Judge, who had zero head-coaching or play-calling experience (at any level) before being hired. He threw a challenge flag in Week 1 on a play that wasn’t challengeable, and that cost the Giants a timeout. In Week 2, the Giants were penalized 11 times — including an offsides penalty on a missed field goal attempt that ultimately cost them the game. In Week 3, Judge burned two timeouts within the first five minutes of the fourth quarter, and the Giants committed eight penalties.

“I do think that when you brand yourself as a discipline coach and your team plays with a lack of discipline, that’s a problem,” Schwartz said.

And then there’s Jason Garrett, the offensive coordinator many believe was foisted upon Judge at Mara’s direction. Judge tried interviewing Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, but was denied the request by Buffalo.

Last week, Golladay — frustrated at not being utilized — yelled at Garrett on the sideline, like wide receiver Golden Tate did last year. Toney pouted on the sideline and complained on social media for similar reasons. The Giants were the second-worst scoring offense in the NFL last season, and Jones threw only 11 touchdown passes in 14 games. They scored 14 points against the Falcons defense on Sunday, which had allowed the most points in the NFL.

Judge could’ve moved on from Garrett after the season, but he stuck with him. Former NFL quarterback Kurt Warner went into detail recently about how Garrett has hamstrung the offense with his bland play-calling.

“It’s hard to judge what the Giants’ offense could be because they’re held back by the play-caller,” Schwartz said. Added Palazzo: “There’s definitely more (Garrett) can do to open things up.”

But Garrett might be a victim of the offensive line, too. Judge, who has been hands-on with the unit, fired coach Marc Colombo at midseason last year, replaced him with Dave DeGuglielmo, and then hired Sale from the college ranks. Judge likely played a role in the decision not to make any moves to improve the line.

“It’s almost like (Garrett) has got one hand tied behind his back as he play-calls,” Barber said. “There’s no time to let anything develop. (A bad offensive line) hamstrings everything.”

Giants fans fell in love with Judge during his introductory press conference in January 2020, when he sounded like cross between Bill Parcells and Tom Coughlin.

“I don’t really know Joe. I’ve spoken with him a couple of times and that’s about it,” Parcells said, “But it’s a tough business he’s in.”

And a tough market.

“A lot of people have mentioned the honeymoon period is over, and I hate that term, but it’s true,” Feagles said. “You’ve got to start winning some games.”
 

 

https://www.nj.com/giants/2021/09/people-around-nfl-agree-giants-cant-draft-coach-or-play-they-wonder-what-if-anything-is-john-mara-going-to-do-about-this-mess.html?outputType=amp
 

 


 

 

Bill Parcells started out as a "player's coach" and then went 3 and 13.  He pledged to be a different person the next season and thereafter.  He was.  He only coddled his best player LT going forward and all of the Giants understood that.  There were rules for the Giants and different rules for LT.  They won... and then won big so no one disputed that.  Parcells had been a defensive coordinator under Perkins so he had way more professional football smarts.  I am appalled that Judge is basically a super high school or junior college level coach trying to make it in the professional ranks.  It is time the Giants try to employ a real winning professional football coach.

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