Daniel Jones

[Sephiroth]

I only watched two drives last night... one three-and-out in the second quarter and the drive that started from the 5-yard line.  That was all I needed to know that this team fucking blows (gave up two TDs in that span too, I think). 

If you make me the GM, I exercise Jones' 5th year option.  I look pretty heavily at QB in the draft, but if there's no "the guy" there, I trade back as much as possible to teams that think he is there.  There was a "bad' QB draft a few years back and Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes came out of that draft, and both of those guys are pretty good. 

If you can trade back, use those mid first-rounders on spots where you can still get quality players.  Interior O-line, DT, MLB, RB.  You're not going to find your future LT or QB at pick 19, but you might find an All-Pro guard.  Use your stockpiled picks the following year (Jones' fifth) to trade up for your franchise QB, and you may still get something for Jones in a trade that year if he looks good with the new coaching staff. 

If he turns it around in year 4... hey, you have a bunch of first rounders to build with.

Of course, I expect we'll do none of this.  

[Sephiroth]

1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said:

The point is....all of those QBs only started getting traction when they had teams that grew with them...or after a being in and out of the league...hit the right team (Warner / Rams).

The Giants are straight up putrid.....rudderless...and I just don't see a plan. Shit...I don't seem outline of a plan.

If there is no plan...I am hard pressed to put it on 8...trying to execute a non plan..with a makeshift team every week. 

The more I think about it....I think the kid is probably done.

In his make or break 4th season...he will be involved in a complete rebuild ...and looking at another 3 years to get to where they should be now.

Its amazing to me that they suck this hard....simply amazing to me.

C. Wagon

I'm a little surprised, but just a little. 

Going into this year, I thought Jones was a huge question mark.  Barkley was done I thought (I never thought he was that good and was asking for legitimate RB help in the draft). Yes, our WR corps was "upgraded," but I also said it came with a huge risk as mostly all of those guys have serious injury histories.  Literally everyone on the line was a question mark to me.  I did think Rudolph would at least contribute in the red zone, but Engram is a fucking loser. 

To many "ifs" on offense to think the team would be more than .500.  I didn't expect the defense to suck this bad though.  On paper, they should be way better than they are.  

[Chuck Wagon]

5 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I'm a little surprised, but just a little. 

Going into this year, I thought Jones was a huge question mark.  Barkley was done I thought (I never thought he was that good and was asking for legitimate RB help in the draft). Yes, our WR corps was "upgraded," but I also said it came with a huge risk as mostly all of those guys have serious injury histories.  Literally everyone on the line was a question mark to me.  I did think Rudolph would at least contribute in the red zone, but Engram is a fucking loser. 

To many "ifs" on offense to think the team would be more than .500.  I didn't expect the defense to suck this bad though.  On paper, they should be way better than they are.  

There is just .....SOOOOOO much wrong. Almost a question of where do you start at this point.

I was hoping we got Lidell Michell or Franco Harris PSU RB...I think we have Curtis Enis....Kalaja Carter...etc. etc. I really hope I am wrong because I really like Barkley.

I .....am just really vexed and disappointed.

C. Wagon

[Sephiroth]

11 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

There is just .....SOOOOOO much wrong. Almost a question of where do you start at this point.

I was hoping we got Lidell Michell or Franco Harris PSU RB...I think we have Curtis Enis....Kalaja Carter...etc. etc. I really hope I am wrong because I really like Barkley.

I .....am just really vexed and disappointed.

C. Wagon

I thought the defense would carry us to some 20-17 victories and whatnot, but even these guys stink. 

In the fifteen minutes I watched last night, Bradberry whiffed on two tackles.  Last full game I watched I think he missed six. 

We need a total reboot. 

[mastershake]

8 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

There is just .....SOOOOOO much wrong. Almost a question of where do you start at this point.

I was hoping we got Lidell Michell or Franco Harris PSU RB...I think we have Curtis Enis....Kalaja Carter...etc. etc. I really hope I am wrong because I really like Barkley.

I .....am just really vexed and disappointed.

C. Wagon

Big 10 running backs....the giants absolutely cannot draft big 10 running backs.

 - Butch Woolfork

- Jarrod Bunch (granted, more of a FB who was beset by injuries, but still a 1st round big 10 RB)

- Tyrone Wheatley (he had a decent post giants career though)

- Joe Montgomery

- Ron Dayne

[Chuck Wagon]

39 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Big 10 running backs....the giants absolutely cannot draft big 10 running backs.

 - Butch Woolfork

- Jarrod Bunch (granted, more of a FB who was beset by injuries, but still a 1st round big 10 RB)

- Tyrone Wheatley (he had a decent post giants career though)

- Joe Montgomery

- Ron Dayne

Never even thought of it that way....but yeah..that is a very bad track record.

C. Wagon

[CrazedDogs]

54 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I thought the defense would carry us to some 20-17 victories and whatnot, but even these guys stink. 

In the fifteen minutes I watched last night, Bradberry whiffed on two tackles.  Last full game I watched I think he missed six. 

We need a total reboot. 

I didn't have a problem with the DBs last night. A few missed tackles, but some quality play aside from that.

The pass rush though... Combined with the extreme soft coverage... Low quality talent plus low quality scheme equals that shit last night.

The book is kind of out on how to prep for Brady and the Bucs offense, so maybe a case of outsmarting only ourselves. Flood the short to intermediate area of the field, rush no more than four, and pray you have someone with the pass rush talent to win quick.

Sure as shit not give his receivers ten yards of free release.

[BronxRik]

5 hours ago, Nas said:

 

Oh God no... who said we have to get a QB in the 1st?   You can have the best QB in the world but without having an OL, you're not going to succeed.    

 

Wilson doesn't have a lot of years left... I'd rather use the 2 1st rounders on a the best OL and the best DL (remember when we used to sack QBs?)     

 

While I'm not sold on DJ, he's probably the best we have over the next few years until we fix the rest of the team anyway... I get he had an awful fucking game... so bad that I started having flashes of Dave Brown... but I'll file it as one horrible fucking game... and keep my eye on fixing the OL/DL. 

1 Horrible game? We're 3-7. What about the other 6? 

Not all Jones' fault, granted, but he's not "the guy" either. And just how many years have we all been screaming for them to fix the O-line? How many top ten picks have we had where they make some weird off the wall pick that we all wonder about? How many of us, how many analysts, have screamed....screamed.....that the O line sucks and needs to be fixed, only to have them take......a RB? 

There's a shitload of talent on this team....wasted talent. Shitty front office and bad coaching. This team is broken, and will be for a long time because they refuse to change their ways. 

[Sephiroth]

4 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I didn't have a problem with the DBs last night. A few missed tackles, but some quality play aside from that.

The pass rush though... Combined with the extreme soft coverage... Low quality talent plus low quality scheme equals that shit last night.

The book is kind of out on how to prep for Brady and the Bucs offense, so maybe a case of outsmarting only ourselves. Flood the short to intermediate area of the field, rush no more than four, and pray you have someone with the pass rush talent to win quick.

Sure as shit not give his receivers ten yards of free release.

I watched the highlights during my lunch break. Have a good look at Bradberry. Not only does he get absolutely scorched by Evans, but he misses like 5 tackles and looks completely disinterested every time there's even a hint of a block coming his way. Fuck that guy.

[Nas]

1 hour ago, BronxRik said:

1 Horrible game? We're 3-7. What about the other 6? 

Not all Jones' fault, granted, but he's not "the guy" either. And just how many years have we all been screaming for them to fix the O-line? How many top ten picks have we had where they make some weird off the wall pick that we all wonder about? How many of us, how many analysts, have screamed....screamed.....that the O line sucks and needs to be fixed, only to have them take......a RB? 

There's a shitload of talent on this team....wasted talent. Shitty front office and bad coaching. This team is broken, and will be for a long time because they refuse to change their ways. 

Where's the disagreement?   I stated we needed to fix the OL first... I don't think we can be fair to DJ with a shitty OL.   I'm not saying he will be a top 5 QB but we don't know what we don't know.   The kid has shown flashes but my god he was running for his life yesterday.   It's a shitty front office and a shitty ownership... so let's get a better GM that will fix the OL issues first only then we can evaluate the other pieces on the offense.  

[BronxRik]

1 hour ago, Nas said:

Where's the disagreement?   I stated we needed to fix the OL first... I don't think we can be fair to DJ with a shitty OL.   I'm not saying he will be a top 5 QB but we don't know what we don't know.   The kid has shown flashes but my god he was running for his life yesterday.   It's a shitty front office and a shitty ownership... so let's get a better GM that will fix the OL issues first only then we can evaluate the other pieces on the offense.  

No disagreement, more of a rant. Except for the 1 horrible game part. 

[NeMesiS]

9 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said:

There is just .....SOOOOOO much wrong. Almost a question of where do you start at this point.

I was hoping we got Lidell Michell or Franco Harris PSU RB...I think we have Curtis Enis....Kalaja Carter...etc. etc. I really hope I am wrong because I really like Barkley.

I .....am just really vexed and disappointed.

C. Wagon

Chuck, I heard someone call Barkley Blaire Thomas. My heart just sunk. 

[CrazedDogs]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I watched the highlights during my lunch break. Have a good look at Bradberry. Not only does he get absolutely scorched by Evans, but he misses like 5 tackles and looks completely disinterested every time there's even a hint of a block coming his way. Fuck that guy.

Evans was only 6/11 for about 70 yards, it's not like Bradberry was getting worked over like Evans does to many cornerbacks. Remember the game Evans had vs Janoris Jenkins? Abuse.

I don't feel like I can single out anyone on the D. Receivers were running free all night and Brady was working from a clean pocket. They all fucking failed.

 

[Nas]

3 hours ago, BronxRik said:

No disagreement, more of a rant. Except for the 1 horrible game part. 

I did feel last nights game was especially horrible moreso than any other game I can recall for DJ.

[mastershake]

10 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

Evans was only 6/11 for about 70 yards, it's not like Bradberry was getting worked over like Evans does to many cornerbacks. Remember the game Evans had vs Janoris Jenkins? Abuse.

I don't feel like I can single out anyone on the D. Receivers were running free all night and Brady was working from a clean pocket. They all fucking failed.

 

Right. I felt more concerned with the fact that the coordinator/coach was almost afraid to blitz Brady, and sat back in zones all night, which didn't work. Way too conservative of a defensive gameplan.

[gmenroc]

When has zone coverage with zero pass rush ever beaten a Brady lead offense?

[CrazedDogs]

2 hours ago, mastershake said:

Right. I felt more concerned with the fact that the coordinator/coach was almost afraid to blitz Brady, and sat back in zones all night, which didn't work. Way too conservative of a defensive gameplan.

 

10 minutes ago, gmenroc said:

When has zone coverage with zero pass rush ever beaten a Brady lead offense?

But Graham still has a job.

To be fair, they did often bring a rusher from off the line, a whole lot of rush three + blitz. And it would have been effective if any of the three down linemen won at the snap.

As it was, Williams was double teamed effectively, and the other guys were simply other guys. And although the blitzer often had a free rush, the Bucs receivers were running routes shallow of the Giants goofy coverage scheme. Did they bump a man at all until the game was out of reach? I don't think so.

[Chuck Wagon]

15 hours ago, NeMesiS said:

Chuck, I heard someone call Barkley Blaire Thomas. My heart just sunk. 

Hey Nem....long time... hope you are well.

Yeah....that is a terrible handle to get.....for some reason....PSU backs have as bad a time in the pro's as Ohio State QBs.

C. Wagon

[Chuck Wagon]

48 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

 

But Graham still has a job.

To be fair, they did often bring a rusher from off the line, a whole lot of rush three + blitz. And it would have been effective if any of the three down linemen won at the snap.

As it was, Williams was double teamed effectively, and the other guys were simply other guys. And although the blitzer often had a free rush, the Bucs receivers were running routes shallow of the Giants goofy coverage scheme. Did they bump a man at all until the game was out of reach? I don't think so.

Forgive me.

C. Wagon

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Forgive me.

C. Wagon

LOL, that was great.

[Virginia Giant]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Forgive me.

C. Wagon

Hilarious show. 

[Sephiroth]

15 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

Evans was only 6/11 for about 70 yards, it's not like Bradberry was getting worked over like Evans does to many cornerbacks. Remember the game Evans had vs Janoris Jenkins? Abuse.

I don't feel like I can single out anyone on the D. Receivers were running free all night and Brady was working from a clean pocket. They all fucking failed.

 

Bradberry's PFF grades from the game:

36.9 Overall (64.7 Run Defense, 37.7 Tackling, 32.8 Coverage, 60.6 Special Teams)

26 Run Defense Snaps
5 Tackles + 2 Assisted Tackles
1 Missed Tackle
6 Catches Allowed + 1 Drop on 11 Targets (53 Coverage Snaps)
63 Yards Allowed (19 YAC)
1 TD Allowed
5 1st Downs Allowed (Includes TD)
6 Special Teams Snaps

 

 

[Sephiroth]

Again, I didn't even watch the game and I'm probably dumb for posting that but Bradberry sure looks bad to me.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Again, I didn't even watch the game and I'm probably dumb for posting that but Bradberry sure looks bad to me.

He got abused and used by Evans on critical third downs and in the red zone.

But the entire secondary did.

Brady put on a clinic of smart QB play.

Something we haven't seen for a while. 

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

2 hours ago, Virginia Giant said:

Hilarious show. 

I am going to re-watch over the holiday...there is so much you miss because the banter is so quick. 

Remarkably well written show.

C.W agon