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12 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

You're always such a depressing ray of sunshine Shakes lol

Still <3 you though.

LOL Which part, Oweh? Well what am I missing about him?

Some mocks even have him sliding into the 1st round.

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3 hours ago, mastershake said:

Back to PSU. What do people see in this Oweh? He has only two sacks the last two years (zero last year). He's a pure size/speed prospect only. I wouldn't touch him in rounds 3-4. When has a guy with this poor of defensive production ever panned out?

He has Dion Jordan written all over him.

I hate drafting guys that are gifted athletically but still haven't figured it out by year 3-4 of college (ie underachievers). At the very least, those are guys you save for rounds #4-7 or UDFA.

They also say he can't really play the run. So if he can't play the run and has two sacks in as many years, what's his draft value exactly????

He seems like a third or fourth round guy to me. Just from what I've read though.

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Fwiw...I wasn't advocating Owah in the 1st by any means...just impressed by size and speed.  Production should def play into draft round.  I'd go 3rd, but if projected end 1/top 2, probably won't happen.

Also don't know that I like drafting teammates...no good reason why, just don't care for it

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On 3/25/2021 at 8:54 PM, CrazedDogs said:

The 2011 Giants won it all. 

That OL was about on the present group's level. 

NO way... Come on. I criticized OL in 2011. But this one is worse.  

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1 hour ago, NeMesiS said:

NO way... Come on. I criticized OL in 2011. But this one is worse.  

I really don't think it is. That was a poor offensive line: if it was better than the 2020 OL, it wasn't by a whole lot.

And I'm completely discounting the first half of last season. If we have to count those games, fine, I concede! Lol

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17 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

I really don't think it is. That was a poor offensive line: if it was better than the 2020 OL, it wasn't by a whole lot.

And I'm completely discounting the first half of last season. If we have to count those games, fine, I concede! Lol

The line with Beatty, Snee, Deihl, and Mckenzie was worse???? The 9th ranked offense? Whattttttt

You're nuts

 

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33 minutes ago, mastershake said:

The line with Beatty, Snee, Deihl, and Mckenzie was worse???? The 9th ranked offense? Whattttttt

You're nuts

 

Lol! Well, Diehl, Snee, and Mckenzie were all at the end of the road, none of them were good that season. Baas was very disappointing as a replacement for O'Hara. And Beatty didn't get good until 2013. 

That line couldn't run block for shit, and although their pass protection metrics look okay, that is mostly a function of whether or not the QB gets the ball out on time. Look back at the abuse Eli took during that playoff run. There was nothing good about that OL, it took the best collection of offensive weapons the Giants have ever had and our finest QB performance to overcome that group. 

 

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San Fran beat up on everyone that 2011 season. The figures don't lie:

Giants ppg in 2011 = 24.6 (9th). 

Giants ppg in 2020 = 17.5 (31st).

It's also even worse in 2020 when you look at the splits of us vs the NFC East vs the rest of the league.

That 2011 wasn't perfect, but it was far better than what we currently have (let's not forget last year we had Zeitler too who's now gone).

We desperately need at least two interior OL in this draft, and for Peart and/or Solder to figure it out or be halfway decent.

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We can get much more specific than points for and against. Granted, it doesn't get any more difficult to make a statistical argument than it does on the OL, but I'm not going to be moved by arguments like 'but we had more points!'

I think if we have a good OL, like 2006 - 2008, that 2011 offense is at the top of the league in ppg, and Eli gives Rodgers a run for his money on mvp. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 3:08 PM, mastershake said:

LOL Which part, Oweh? Well what am I missing about him?

Some mocks even have him sliding into the 1st round.

No just the doom and gloom 90% of your posts usually contain lol

But understandable, I mean we've been basically the Browns of the NFC for the last eight years.

3 hours ago, mastershake said:

San Fran beat up on everyone that 2011 season. The figures don't lie:

Giants ppg in 2011 = 24.6 (9th). 

Giants ppg in 2020 = 17.5 (31st).

It's also even worse in 2020 when you look at the splits of us vs the NFC East vs the rest of the league.

That 2011 wasn't perfect, but it was far better than what we currently have (let's not forget last year we had Zeitler too who's now gone).

We desperately need at least two interior OL in this draft, and for Peart and/or Solder to figure it out or be halfway decent.

I think that's what myself and maybe CD was trying to say.

The 2011 Oline was well below average, 32nd in rush yards/attempts, and were above average with 28 sacks given up, and that was in large part to having one the NFLs best WR cores that year in Nicks/Cruz/Manninham and Eli having one of his best years in the NFL, he was great at feeling out pressure and getting the ball into Ballards/Bradshaws hands, something that Jones has failed to do thus far in his career.

You don't need a top 10 Oline in the NFL to win the SB, it helps though as seen in 2007, but you got to be league average, or have the skill positions to help out.

That's what I think I'm leaning towards.

If this Oline can take a step forward in pass protection, they don't need the run game, they just can't give up 40+ sacks and our skills positions should be able to help with the rest.

Also Jones as I said, needs to get the ball out quicker and earlier when he feels pressure, last year there was no slot guy to bail him out, and Engram was a drop machine.

This year there should be no excuse with Barkley back in the line up, he's probably the best check down back in the NFL (when healthy) and you seen that with Eli.

When Eli was playing as soon as there was pressure he dumped it off to Barkley, as soon as Jones gets pressured he panics and starts getting happy feet while forgetting about the check down options (granted our options last year were shit when Barkley went down)

 

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10 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

No just the doom and gloom 90% of your posts usually contain lol

But understandable, I mean we've been basically the Browns of the NFC for the last eight years.

I think that's what myself and maybe CD was trying to say.

The 2011 Oline was well below average, 32nd in rush yards/attempts, and were above average with 28 sacks given up, and that was in large part to having one the NFLs best WR cores that year in Nicks/Cruz/Manninham and Eli having one of his best years in the NFL, he was great at feeling out pressure and getting the ball into Ballards/Bradshaws hands, something that Jones has failed to do thus far in his career.

You don't need a top 10 Oline in the NFL to win the SB, it helps though as seen in 2007, but you got to be league average, or have the skill positions to help out.

That's what I think I'm leaning towards.

If this Oline can take a step forward in pass protection, they don't need the run game, they just can't give up 40+ sacks and our skills positions should be able to help with the rest.

Also Jones as I said, needs to get the ball out quicker and earlier when he feels pressure, last year there was no slot guy to bail him out, and Engram was a drop machine.

This year there should be no excuse with Barkley back in the line up, he's probably the best check down back in the NFL (when healthy) and you seen that with Eli.

When Eli was playing as soon as there was pressure he dumped it off to Barkley, as soon as Jones gets pressured he panics and starts getting happy feet while forgetting about the check down options (granted our options last year were shit when Barkley went down)

 

We're not going to go from being a 17.5pt per game offense to become a 24.5pt per game offense by obtaining Golladay (plus not from any other drafted WR or TE). 

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21 minutes ago, mastershake said:

We're not going to go from being a 17.5pt per game offense to become a 24.5pt per game offense by obtaining Golladay (plus not from any other drafted WR or TE). 

It 7 points a game. 

Jones threw 11 TDs last year while getting sacked 45 times. 

Let's say the Oline gives up 7 less sacks just 7 less, Jones would been sacked as many times his rookie year 38 times while throwing 24 TDs.

That's theoretically 13 more TDs.

That means the average goes from 17.5 points a game to 23 points a game. 

If Jones limits the turnovers and the Oline gives up 10 or more sacks less yes there would be a mark improvement in the offense.

Plus Jones has better skill players this season than he did two years ago.

I'm not saying the Giants win the SB or make the playoffs but I don't think it's unrealistic to see these type of improvements with the FA pick ups plus this upcoming draft.

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Also not saying thay "just giving up" less sacks equals more wins,Garrett has to change up his play calling as well, defense has to keep playing as well as it did, etc etc.

But they add a second round guard and the above happens.

I can see more wins coming.

But at the same time it's the Giants so who knows what's going to happen.

We could be talking about Bookers and Glennon starting by week 4 and the defense giving up record number of years by the lol 

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1 minute ago, BlueInCanada said:

It 7 points a game. 

Jones threw 11 TDs last year while getting sacked 45 times. 

Let's say the Oline gives up 7 less sacks just 7 less, Jones would been sacked as many times his rookie year 38 times while throwing 24 TDs.

That's theoretically 13 more TDs.

That means the average goes from 17.5 points a game to 23 points a game. 

If Jones limits the turnovers and the Oline gives up 10 or more sacks less yes there would be a mark improvement in the offense.

Plus Jones has better skill players this season than he did two years ago.

I'm not saying the Giants win the SB or make the playoffs but I don't think it's unrealistic to see these type of implements with the FA pick ups plus this upcoming draft.

That's an awful lot of wishful thinking. If Jones puts up the same per game numbers as in 2019, if he plays a full 16 games this season, that would be 32 TDs (plus an extra 2-3 on the ground). I highly doubt Jones puts up that production.

He got hot statistically in his first season. I wouldn't draw any big projections off that. If anything the Sophomore season seems more relevant, particularly after teams get enough tape/data on you to game plan around you, which they appeared to do. I'm not saying the offense won't be better than last year, I do expect improvement, but not above #20th in the league. I think we need to temper our expectations.

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39 minutes ago, mastershake said:

We're not going to go from being a 17.5pt per game offense to become a 24.5pt per game offense by obtaining Golladay (plus not from any other drafted WR or TE). 

Oh I think they can easily go up that much. Given a healthy Saquon, some incremental improvement from Jones, and anticipated improvement from young players, yes, on the offensive line... I think it's reasonable to expect that much improvement. Not in the wagering sense, just in terms of what is a reasonable goal.

 

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4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Also not saying thay "just giving up" less sacks equals more wins,Garrett has to change up his play calling as well, defense has to keep playing as well as it did, etc etc.

But they add a second round guard and the above happens.

I can see more wins coming.

But at the same time it's the Giants so who knows what's going to happen.

We could be talking about Bookers and Glennon starting by week 4 and the defense giving up record number of years by the lol 

If we come out of the draft with two interior OL who can start, I'll feel better. Gates and Lemuiex are not as good as SOME people think they are, and Hernandez is a flat out bust.

It's a young, inexperienced enough line as it is (I don't expect much out of Solder), but the draft is the sole option left it seems.

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12 minutes ago, mastershake said:

That's an awful lot of wishful thinking. If Jones puts up the same per game numbers as in 2019, if he plays a full 16 games this season, that would be 32 TDs (plus an extra 2-3 on the ground). I highly doubt Jones puts up that production.

 

Not really.

It's basically saying "I want my team to play well"

I know we're not used to seeing it but that's the good thing about being rock bottom, you can't get worse.

No difference between 1-15 and 6-10, other than draft position.

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He got hot statistically in his first season. I wouldn't draw any big projections off that. If anything the Sophomore season seems more relevant, particularly after teams get enough tape/data on you to game plan around you, which they appeared to do

Right, this team is more than just the Oline, they can come out and play well but it's all moot if Jones plays poorly as he did last year.

This offense comes out revamp with the new players it's all moot if the defense suddenly regresses, which is just as likely as the offense improving.

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. I'm not saying the offense won't be better than last year, I do expect improvement, but not above #20th in the league. I think we need to temper our expectations.

If the Giants get to the 20th ranked offense they can very well win the division, the 20th ranked team last year average 23.5 points.

Hell they get inside the top 25 teams and they average more than 20 points a game.

The Giants lost four games last year by four points or less, we start to average 6.5 points more we could be 10-6.

Once again not saying any of this happens.

But I think it's far more likely we improve than we regress.

I don't think a single person here expects the playoffs just improvement, which is something I think the Giants even expect.

 

 

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Also it's a pretty big make or break year honestly.

Jones doesnt play well? Gets hurt AGAIN, we are looking at a new QB.

Jones doesnt play well? Probably because the offence/Oline were bad, which means Garrett is gone.

If Garrett is gone it means all the moves DG made didn't work and DG is probably gone.

DG is gone? Then you can expect another rebuild with a new GM looking for a new QB/OC and a whole new roster since many guys are on three year deals, and rookies going into contract/option years (Jones, Barkley, Henendez, etc)

2021 going to be a fun season boys, buckle up.

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