Super early free agency thread before the salary cap is even set thread!

[BlueInCanada]

What's the cap going to be? 170 million? 185 million? 164 million? Numbers are being thrown out left, right and center and every article knows more than the last.

Frankly my dear, who gives a fuck.

Until the number is set there are still some free agents I would like to see the Giants land.

With this year looking like another "rebuild" year of gathering pieces, with the potential of a winning season and are we talking playoffs in December again? I hope so.

Anyways some guys I'd like to see the Giants go after that wont cost 15+ million since we are probably only giving that money to Williams.

Mike Davis, Chargers CB. Est cost - 5-7M a year. Under the radar type of player, has played extremely well for a UDFA, PFF has him graded in the late 60s but honestly PFF has been more and more exposed as a sham and who needs to listen to them. 14 pass defended, 3 INTs, and did a solid job filling in for an injured Heyward as the #2 CB. Would start week 1 opposite of Bradberry and I think would be a great stop gap and filler player to find a reliable starter that wont cost draft capitol.

DaDuan Jones, Titans DT. Est Cost 6M-7.5M a year. With the good possibility that we sign Williams to some ridiculous contract and let Tomlinson walk (who deserves a decent sized contract as well), the Giants save money by getting Jones. A fourth round pick who seen his workload, stats and snaps go up ever year in the NFL. High motor IDL who is a run stuffer and would fill a massive need to replace Tomlinson, however maybe Tomlinson stays by some luck of the draw and then we wouldn't have to worry about it.

Nick Easton, Saints G. Est cost 4-5M a year. Above average guard who has been injured the last few years and bounced around from team to team. If Zeitler is a cap casualty he's a guy who could start for a year or two and help fill an Oline which may have some massive holes this offseason if Solder retires and Zeitler is let go.

Denzel Perryman, ILB Chargers cost 6M a year. Decent thumper and coverage guy to stick beside Martinez. I'm not sold on Tae Crowder and we really don't have another real LB on the team.

Corey Davis, Titans WR Est cost, 8-9.5M a year. First round pick who has kinda sorta played well for his draft position. We probably don't have the fire power in cap space to get ARob, Davis is a speedy WR who can hit the big plays and will replace Tate in when he's let go to free up space, expect you know Davis is young and still has a career left when he's signed.

Bring back; Kyler Fackrell Est cost 5M a year. With the pass rusher FA class absolutely void of any real difference makers, we need to bring back a guy who played well and got consistent pressure in Grahams system. This would go well with a first round or second round DE as well, as suddenly we would have a pretty decent assemble of pass rushers.

 

 

 

[mastershake]

If the only FA OL we get this offseason is one so-so Guard who's barely an improvement over Hernandez, then we're in deep trouble this season....especially assuming we're cutting Zeitler because his cap # is $14mm.

[BlueInCanada]

59 minutes ago, mastershake said:

If the only FA OL we get this offseason is one so-so Guard who's barely an improvement over Hernandez, then we're in deep trouble this season....especially assuming we're cutting Zeitler because his cap # is $14mm.

We're in deep trouble anyways with the Oline. Solder more than likely retires and Zeitler is more than likely a cap casualty as said.

However we can't fix all the problems on one offseason.

If they grab Slater in round one and sign a so so guard in a very weak FA OL class then it's probably the best situation possible.

However Getty is very bad at disguising what he's doing ok the draft. 

"We need to establish the run" - Drafts Barkley. 

"We needed to start looking at options at QB" - Drafts Jones. 

"We need to set the tone at the line" - Drafts Thomas.

What's he saying this year? "We need playmakers"

Look for a WR round one and hopefully Oline round two, some good targets in the second round for Oline.

 

 

[mastershake]

Cut: Solder, Zeitler (assuming he won't restructure), Engram, Pulley, Toilolo, Core, Golden Tate. + ~$38mm in cap space, on top of ~$8mm currently.

- G Joe Thuney 4 years $50mm

- C / G Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm

- T Kelvin Beachum (swing tackle, backup in case Matt Peart doesn't work out at RT). 1 year $3.5mm

- WR Curtis Samuel 3 years $25mm

- DL Leonard Williams 5 years $80mm

- Re-sign DT Austin Johnson and DE Jabaal Sheard to 1 year $1mm, as backups, rotational defenders.

Draft

1st: TE Kyle Pitts, Florida

2nd: CB Paulson Adebo, Stanford

3rd: DE Rashad Weaver, Pittsburgh

4th: RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Cut: Solder, Zeitler (assuming he won't restructure), Engram, Pulley, Toilolo, Core, Golden Tate. + ~$38mm in cap space, on top of ~$8mm currently.

- G Joe Thuney 4 years $50mm

- C / G Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm

- T Kelvin Beachum (swing tackle, backup in case Matt Peart doesn't work out at RT). 1 year $3.5mm

- WR Curtis Samuel 3 years $25mm

- DL Leonard Williams 5 years $80mm

- Re-sign DT Austin Johnson and DE Jabaal Sheard to 1 year $1mm, as backups, rotational defenders.

Draft

1st: TE Kyle Pitts, Florida

2nd: CB Paulson Adebo, Stanford

3rd: DE Rashad Weaver, Pittsburgh

4th: RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State

Thuney is one of the best OL in the game and young, he isnt taking 12M a year, he played last year on a one year 14 million dollar deal, he's projected market is 15 to 17 million a year, so expect him to sign for a 4 year, 60 to 70 million contract.

There's zero chance the Giants get him, unless we don't sign Williams.

Linsey would be a great signing honestly, he would fill in for Zeitler day one, but I would expect him to make more than 11 million a year, but doable.

Sure I'd love to sign the top two OL FA this year, but maybe one, not both.

The Giants if they make those cuts would only have around 30 million in cap space (with around 16 to 18 million in dead cap and we pray Solder retired and isnt cut) as I understand it. Pulley after the restructure isnt on this team in 2021, Zeitler and Tate can save 16 million, Solder (if re retired) saves us 10, and Toloili/Core are 4?

lol Getty is just so awful at balancing the books.

Leonard Williams alone is going to eat up over half of the cap.

 

[mastershake]

37 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Thuney is one of the best OL in the game and young, he isnt taking 12M a year, he played last year on a one year 14 million dollar deal, he's projected market is 15 to 17 million a year, so expect him to sign for a 4 year, 60 to 70 million contract.

There's zero chance the Giants get him, unless we don't sign Williams.

Linsey would be a great signing honestly, he would fill in for Zeitler day one, but I would expect him to make more than 11 million a year, but doable.

Sure I'd love to sign the top two OL FA this year, but maybe one, not both.

The Giants if they make those cuts would only have around 30 million in cap space (with around 16 to 18 million in dead cap and we pray Solder retired and isnt cut) as I understand it. Pulley after the restructure isnt on this team in 2021, Zeitler and Tate can save 16 million, Solder (if re retired) saves us 10, and Toloili/Core are 4?

lol Getty is just so awful at balancing the books.

Leonard Williams alone is going to eat up over half of the cap.

 

Thuney isn't that young. He's 28 now, will be 29 in November. I'd be willing to bump that contract up to 4 years $60mm, possibly if we make additional cuts (e.g. Pettis, RJ McIntosh), guys that are likely going to be cut or will barely make the roster anyway.

- G Joe Thuney 4 years $60mm

- C / G Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm

- T Kelvin Beachum (swing tackle, backup in case Matt Peart doesn't work out at RT). 1 year $3.5mm

- WR Curtis Samuel 3 years $25mm

- DL Leonard Williams 5 years $80mm

 

You could prob end up with something like this against the 2021 cap. Year 1 Cap Hit ($44.5):

- Thuney = $12mm

- Linsley $8mm

- Beachum $3.5mm

- Samuel $6mm

- Williams $13mm

$42.5mm

 

Problem is I think the draft pool hasn't been factored into the current cap numbers, so you're probably right we can afford one, but not two big OL, with someone like Linsley looking more likely than Thuney (if we want to keep Williams). If we brought in just Linsely plus Beachum as insurance / backup plan at RT, I'd be happy with that free agency.

This is also my wish list and "if I were playing Madden 2022," so it's all just fantasy, lol.

[Treehugger]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:46 PM, mastershake said:

Cut: Solder, Zeitler (assuming he won't restructure), Engram, Pulley, Toilolo, Core, Golden Tate. + ~$38mm in cap space, on top of ~$8mm currently.

- G Joe Thuney 4 years $50mm

- C / G Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm

- T Kelvin Beachum (swing tackle, backup in case Matt Peart doesn't work out at RT). 1 year $3.5mm

- WR Curtis Samuel 3 years $25mm

- DL Leonard Williams 5 years $80mm

- Re-sign DT Austin Johnson and DE Jabaal Sheard to 1 year $1mm, as backups, rotational defenders.

Draft

1st: TE Kyle Pitts, Florida

2nd: CB Paulson Adebo, Stanford

3rd: DE Rashad Weaver, Pittsburgh

4th: RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State

With Tate and Engram gone that's like 2 receptions per game that need to be replaced.

[Chuck Wagon]

23 hours ago, Treehugger said:

With Tate and Engram gone that's like 2 receptions per game that need to be replaced.

That is the easy part...where are they going to find those clutch drops late the 4th.

C. agon

[Tempest]

Keep all the guys we want and get the best available in free agency to replace them.  

Not sure if the Giants will cut Zeitler at this point.  They could have traded him for a bag of peanuts mid season and kept him knowing they would be at this moment.  Giants are going down the path of contract extension and get some cap space that way.  Ok so back to Nate Solder, I say we keep him too.  He has already been paid and cheaper to cut next year.

I do not expect the Giants to be actively pursuing top tier talent this year through free agency.

[BlueInCanada]

Also fucking Covid eh.

We went from the possibility of having 40 million in cap space to maybe 22 if we basically release 14 players lol 

All because the cap went down due to the revenue loss. 

Solder wouldn't if opted out and they could of let him go this offseason with only paying him 2 million instead of 16 now that was pushed to this year.

 

[mastershake]

10 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Also fucking Covid eh.

We went from the possibility of having 40 million in cap space to maybe 22 if we basically release 14 players lol 

All because the cap went down due to the revenue loss. 

Solder wouldn't if opted out and they could of let him go this offseason with only paying him 2 million instead of 16 now that was pushed to this year.

 

Zeitler +$12mm

Solder +$6mm (not sure what happens capwise if he retires though)

Tate +$6mm

Engram +$6mm

Toilolo +$3mm

Pulley +$2.75mm

Core +$2mm

That's nearly $39mm in cap savings right there.

 

Spotrac says we're currently only $5mm under the cap and I believe that's BEFORE factoring in draft picks, so we're actually probably at closer to -$6mm. So the above cuts put us at ~$33mm. Not bad, but probably only leaves us to sign Leonard Williams and one other prominent FA (such as Curtis Samuel or Linsley)...but I bet DG makes only one big FA move not two. We're going to need to hit a home run in the draft. God help us.

6-10 this season. The offensive line is already botched...I can already tell DG thinks we should have Lemeuix, Hernandez, and Peart on the line as starters day 1. Ugh. He's not going to invest significant cap or draft assets (e.g. first two rounds) into the OL. At best, we'll be lucky if we get a career backup like Fleming or possibly Beachum, and maybe a 3rd round or later pick.

I say again, if we don't come out of free agency and the draft with adding two starting OL, this season is a lost season.

[BlueInCanada]

50 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Zeitler +$12mm

Solder +$6mm (not sure what happens capwise if he retires though)

Tate +$6mm

Engram +$6mm

Toilolo +$3mm

Pulley +$2.75mm

Core +$2mm

That's nearly $39mm in cap savings right there.

 

Spotrac says we're currently only $5mm under the cap and I believe that's BEFORE factoring in draft picks, so we're actually probably at closer to -$6mm. So the above cuts put us at ~$33mm. Not bad, but probably only leaves us to sign Leonard Williams and one other prominent FA (such as Curtis Samuel or Linsley)...but I bet DG makes only one big FA move not two. We're going to need to hit a home run in the draft. God help us.

6-10 this season. The offensive line is already botched...I can already tell DG thinks we should have Lemeuix, Hernandez, and Peart on the line as starters day 1. Ugh. He's not going to invest significant cap or draft assets (e.g. first two rounds) into the OL. At best, we'll be lucky if we get a career backup like Fleming or possibly Beachum, and maybe a 3rd round or later pick.

I say again, if we don't come out of free agency and the draft with adding two starting OL, this season is a lost season.

You're forgetting the dead cap hit.

And trying to replace these players.

You think that the guys filling in for Tate, Toililoioi won't cost the same if not more?

Also I'll say again Pulley isn't on this team anymore he's a free agent.

The Giants aren't 5 million over the cap they are barely 1 million over it. We are currently on contract for 180 million if Engram and Peppers options stay we will be at 192 million. 

Here's a link 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/2021/1/14/22228917/new-york-giants-salary-cap-space-2021-contracts-free-agents-kevin-zeitler-golden-tate-evan-engram

Zeitler and Solder if cut would save around 18 million. 

Tate leaves for 6 million but who do resign to place him? Davis? Fuller? Expect to pay more than 6 million for either of them,plus signing bonus. 

Toiliololllololoo leaves, who replaces him? 2 million is the going rate for any bench player. Engram leaves then what? The only starting TE is Smith and we need to suddenly fill the TE spot. How much money do we devote to a starting TE? 

The Giants at best with cutting multiple players will have around the 32+ million mark. Leonard is going to cost upwards of 16+ million. That's over half of the possible cap. 

And now we have to replace multiple players for less which is magic DG doesn't have.

Giants are in cap hell and are going to be until next offseason.

[mastershake]

2 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

You're forgetting the dead cap hit.

And trying to replace these players.

You think that the guys filling in for Tate, Toililoioi won't cost the same if not more?

Also I'll say again Pulley isn't on this team anymore he's a free agent.

The Giants aren't 5 million over the cap they are barely 1 million over it. We are currently on contract for 180 million if Engram and Peppers options stay we will be at 192 million. 

Here's a link 

https://dknation.draftkings.com/2021/1/14/22228917/new-york-giants-salary-cap-space-2021-contracts-free-agents-kevin-zeitler-golden-tate-evan-engram

Zeitler and Solder if cut would save around 18 million. 

Tate leaves for 6 million but who do resign to place him? Davis? Fuller? Expect to pay more than 6 million for either of them,plus signing bonus. 

Toiliololllololoo leaves, who replaces him? 2 million is the going rate for any bench player. Engram leaves then what? The only starting TE is Smith and we need to suddenly fill the TE spot. How much money do we devote to a starting TE? 

The Giants at best with cutting multiple players will have around the 30 million mark. Leonard is going to cost upwards of 16+ million. That's over half of the possible cap. 

And now we have to replace multiple players for less which is magic DG doesn't have.

Giants are in cap hell and are going to be until next offseason.

The above factors in the dead cap. For instance, Solder's cap number is $16.5mm with a $10.5mm dead cap, so a cap savings of $6mm.

You think that the guys filling in for Tate, Toililoioi won't cost the same if not more?

I'm not too concerned with losing Tate and Toilolo. It's not going to cost us ~$14mm to replace these. If we get Samuel and/or a high draft pick at WR, I'd be satisfied. Blocking TE's are a dime a dozen, so not too concerned there as well.

Giants are in cap hell and are going to be until next offseason.

Yes, agreed. I'm very pessimistic. The OL is definitely going to have gaps, and by the looks of it our DL might as well (I bet we lose Williams AND Tomlinson).

This is all why DG should be fired. He's led us to this point. 

[BlueInCanada]

Also I firmly believe this isn't a competing year for the Giants and they know it, they and much of the team's out there in the same situation are just trying to deal with the massive cap decrease this year, while not losing any major building pieces.

They are in cap hell, probably going to lose multiple coaches next off season, Barkley contract situation, and DGs future are all going to be decided this year. 

I'm not much for predictions but next offseason we are looking at a new GM, OC, DC and will have an absolute insane amount of cap space. 

Hopefully they can keep the guys who deserve to be here and build off of and finally pit a team together.

This year at best is going to be a sneak into the playoff type situation.

We have a shotty Oline, missing multiple weapons on offense, a QB who might be replaced of he can't stay healthy, a RB returning from major surgery and looking for a pay day, and a defense held together but over achievers and a DC who is probably heading for a HC role.

This team isn't in a spend now mode they aren't one or two players away from success. 

This team is a mess and should of been blown up long before DG was even considered for GM.

[BlueInCanada]

The biggest mistake of the last five years this franchise made was after firing TC and then JR was thinking "We can squeeze a few more years out of Eli and have another playoff run with him" while the roster rotted away with over valued contracts and shit free agents.

And obviously the lie from DG that you "could rebuild while still winning" because so many teams in the NFL have been able to turn over their roster with an aging QB and suddenly have massive success on the other side. 

Mara is a fucking idiot and he deserves the mess the he made.

Just a shame we have to endure it. 

I feel like we hit with Judge though just need to get a GM in here, what I would give to get Ballard from the Colts dude is a modern genius of a GM.

 

 

[mastershake]

34 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Also I firmly believe this isn't a competing year for the Giants and they know it, they and much of the team's out there in the same situation are just trying to deal with the massive cap decrease this year, while not losing any major building pieces.

They are in cap hell, probably going to lose multiple coaches next off season, Barkley contract situation, and DGs future are all going to be decided this year. 

I'm not much for predictions but next offseason we are looking at a new GM, OC, DC and will have an absolute insane amount of cap space. 

Hopefully they can keep the guys who deserve to be here and build off of and finally pit a team together.

This year at best is going to be a sneak into the playoff type situation.

We have a shotty Oline, missing multiple weapons on offense, a QB who might be replaced of he can't stay healthy, a RB returning from major surgery and looking for a pay day, and a defense held together but over achievers and a DC who is probably heading for a HC role.

This team isn't in a spend now mode they aren't one or two players away from success. 

This team is a mess and should of been blown up long before DG was even considered for GM.

Fair points. I think anything less than 9-7 and the playoffs is grounds to fire DG.

Watch, we'll go 7-9 and the Mara's will claim we're heading in the right direction, and will keep DG.

[BlueInCanada]

55 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Fair points. I think anything less than 9-7 and the playoffs is grounds to fire DG.

Watch, we'll go 7-9 and the Mara's will claim we're heading in the right direction, and will keep DG.

That's my biggest worry.

See I can understand them hanging onto DG this year simply because the cap decrease and the cap situation (rumors are Solder IS coming back to play) 

You don't want a new GM coming into the last GMs cluster fuck mid way, let DG ride it out and we hope DG has another FA and draft like he did last year while not going nuts and overloading contracts next year. Then the next GM has some hope for building a team with Judge.

I hated the hiring of DG, and I'll never understand Mara's reasoning for keeping JR when TC was kicked out.

This franchise has been run into the ground worse than that of the Browns since the last SB run in 2011.

[Tempest]

On 2/26/2021 at 10:26 AM, BlueInCanada said:

The biggest mistake of the last five years this franchise made was after firing TC and then JR was thinking "We can squeeze a few more years out of Eli and have another playoff run with him" while the roster rotted away with over valued contracts and shit free agents.

And obviously the lie from DG that you "could rebuild while still winning" because so many teams in the NFL have been able to turn over their roster with an aging QB and suddenly have massive success on the other side. 

Mara is a fucking idiot and he deserves the mess the he made.

Just a shame we have to endure it. 

I feel like we hit with Judge though just need to get a GM in here, what I would give to get Ballard from the Colts dude is a modern genius of a GM.

 

 

I think it was firing Tom Coughlin and keeping Jerry Reese.  Giants hired a coach in the image of Tom Coughlin and drafted a QB in the image of Eli Manning.  Hard to win games with the wrong coach and Giants have made that mistake twice costing them four years of progress.