I would just like to point out

[mastershake]

Once again, for 20 years in a row, the Conference Championship Winners and Super Bowl contenders have only modest talent at RB, and don't have offenses centered around the RB position.

They also have good, quality offensive lines.

That is all.

[Herc]

Good player, bad pick.  Nelson was the move 

[mastershake]

2 minutes ago, Herc said:

Good player, bad pick.  Nelson was the move 

Agreed.

[BlueInCanada]

They also have the best QBs in the game and WR cores made up of multiple #1 WR talents.

They really don't really want to run the ball when you have multiple 1000 yards WRs and HoF QBs.

Last year the 49ers were nothing but a running team and they made the big game. 

How funny is it though that Mike Remmers is the best player on that Chiefs Oline lol he's really stepped up his game. No sacks allowed.

 

[BlueInCanada]

I do agree though in today's NFL passing is the key to winning games.

You need an Oline first but the passing game takes priority to the rushing attack.

I'm just saying this year we are looking at two of the best QBs to play the game, their teams don't need a rushing attack to support them.

Jones on the other hand looks like he will be a QB who needs a rushing attack. 

I don't think Nelson gets us any more wins than Barkley but atleast we would have a guard nailed down for a few years. 

 

[mastershake]

53 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

They also have the best QBs in the game and WR cores made up of multiple #1 WR talents.

They really don't really want to run the ball when you have multiple 1000 yards WRs and HoF QBs.

Last year the 49ers were nothing but a running team and they made the big game. 

How funny is it though that Mike Remmers is the best player on that Chiefs Oline lol he's really stepped up his game. No sacks allowed.

 

With a RB by committee.

No-one builds around one RB.

You can extend my post to all four conference championship this year.

We're the only dumbass franchise trying to build around the RB position, and doing so without an offensive line.

[BlueInCanada]

25 minutes ago, mastershake said:

With a RB by committee.

No-one builds around one RB.

You can extend my post to all four conference championship this year.

We're the only dumbass franchise trying to build around the RB position, and doing so without an offensive line.

I mean if that's the case we wouldn't if drafted Jones.

You got to remember ownership for some reason wanted another year with Eli. 

They drafted Barkley with the idea we could still win.

We aren't trying to build around Barkley we are trying to build around Jones, hopefully Bakrley can bounce back and be another piece for him since he's a dynamic player but holy hell he's got to stay healthy..both of them actually lol 

So I don't know what you mean about building around a RB.

And also I didn't disagree with that point your trying to make, but you cant look at the Chiefs as the norm, they have a QB and WR group we will probably never see again on another team. 

And there still are top 10 rushing attacks that make it to the post season. 

The problem is they don't have QBs who can win the games by themselves, much like the Giants are in position of right now.

[mastershake]

9 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I mean if that's the case we wouldn't if drafted Jones.

You got to remember ownership for some reason wanted another year with Eli. 

They drafted Barkley with the idea we could still win.

We aren't trying to build around Barkley we are trying to build around Jones, hopefully Bakrley can bounce back and be another piece for him since he's a dynamic player but holy hell he's got to stay healthy..both of them actually lol 

So I don't know what you mean about building around a RB.

And also I didn't disagree with that point your trying to make, but you cant look at the Chiefs as the norm, they have a QB and WR group we will probably never see again on another team. 

And there still are top 10 rushing attacks that make it to the post season. 

The problem is they don't have QBs who can win the games by themselves, much like the Giants are in position of right now.

Huh?

"So I don't know what you mean about building around a RB."

The teams to win championships in the last 20 years have done so without top tier RBs, possibly with the lone exception of Marshawn Lynch.

[BlueInCanada]

2 hours ago, mastershake said:

Huh?

"So I don't know what you mean about building around a RB."

The teams to win championships in the last 20 years have done so without top tier RBs, possibly with the lone exception of Marshawn Lynch.

You claim we are "building around a RB" if that's the case then why did we go get Jones when the Giants could of brought in a FA QB journeyman like FitzMagic, Winston, etc. since QB wouldn't be a priority in a run first team no?

Which leads me back to my point, I have no idea what you're talking about building around a RB.

They drafted Barkley when ownership wanted to "win with Eli", since that failed horribly they are in the process of the rebuild with Jones.

Is ownerships decision to stick with Eli longer than his shelf life coming back to bite us in the ass? Absolutely lol

Winning without top tier RBs in the SB, sure that's been known for the last 20 years in the modern era, the Patriots got and won there constantly with a top 10 defense and a passing game.

[mastershake]

4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

You claim we are "building around a RB" if that's the case then why did we go get Jones when the Giants could of brought in a FA QB journeyman like FitzMagic, Winston, etc. since QB wouldn't be a priority in a run first team no?

Which leads me back to my point, I have no idea what you're talking about building around a RB.

They drafted Barkley when ownership wanted to "win with Eli", since that failed horribly they are in the process of the rebuild with Jones.

Is ownerships decision to stick with Eli longer than his shelf life coming back to bite us in the ass? Absolutely lol

Winning without top tier RBs in the SB, sure that's been known for the last 20 years in the modern era, the Patriots got and won there constantly with a top 10 defense and a passing game.

Do you think, and is DG and others in the organization acting like Barkley is a key component of this team's success in the future? There are many people who are under the delusion that we need Saquon to win, and I believe DG and many in the organization are counting on him.

[BlueInCanada]

3 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Do you think, and is DG and others in the organization acting like Barkley is a key component of this team's success in the future? There are many people who are under the delusion that we need Saquon to win, and I believe DG and many in the organization are counting on him.

I have no idea since I'm not DG or any of his staff lol

Also "many other people" I hope don't have any influence on who is on this squad, that's between Judge and DG.

I would assume they hope he returns and is a part and contributes to this teams success, yes I would hope they assume that.

But are you saying they are just going to get Barkley back while not trying to improve other areas of the team? Hoping he magically adds 8 more wins?

Because no, I don't assume that lol

[mastershake]

24 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I have no idea since I'm not DG or any of his staff lol

Also "many other people" I hope don't have any influence on who is on this squad, that's between Judge and DG.

I would assume they hope he returns and is a part and contributes to this teams success, yes I would hope they assume that.

But are you saying they are just going to get Barkley back while not trying to improve other areas of the team? Hoping he magically adds 8 more wins?

Because no, I don't assume that lol

Many writers, fans, etc, and from all indications many in the org are banking on Saquon to dramatically improve this offense. I hope he does return to form. But if DG and Co think our team will be magically better without a starting capable OL next year, then they're sorely mistaken.

My concern is they do little to nothing in free agency to improve this OL. Even if they draft OL's high, that's not enough; if we go into 2021 having only added OL through the draft, then we're in for another ten plus loss season.

You've also pointed out that there aren't many great OL options in free agency, which makes me even more dejected about 2021. If they somehow draft OL rounds 1 and 2 or 3 (high draft picks), I might be feel somewhat better about the offense, but I highly doubt DG does this. 

[BlueInCanada]

4 hours ago, mastershake said:

Many writers, fans, etc, and from all indications many in the org are banking on Saquon to dramatically improve this offense. I hope he does return to form. But if DG and Co think our team will be magically better without a starting capable OL next year, then they're sorely mistaken.

My concern is they do little to nothing in free agency to improve this OL. Even if they draft OL's high, that's not enough; if we go into 2021 having only added OL through the draft, then we're in for another ten plus loss season.

You've also pointed out that there aren't many great OL options in free agency, which makes me even more dejected about 2021. If they somehow draft OL rounds 1 and 2 or 3 (high draft picks), I might be feel somewhat better about the offense, but I highly doubt DG does this. 

He will improve this offense yes, if he returns to rookie form.

There were plenty of times when "Fall Down" Wayne and Morris missed plays, and were nonexistent in the passing game.

Does he get us four or six more wins? NO lol, but unless your a QB you don't have that much influence on the game.

We've argued this point before about last years OL FA class and what the Giants could/couldn't have done but at this point it's all hindsight, and with a cap unfriendly year it's kind of good we didn't throw multiple 10+ million year contracts out last year.

This offseason is going to be the wild west. At the moment the OL FA pool is weak but I fully expect a team to cut some more than capable starting Oline as cap causalities (Bulaga probably being one of them lol)

What does DG and Judge do? who knows, the media and fans are all fucking idiots, us all included.

All I know is I have more faith in Judge/DG and co, than I did in the last two front offices and coaches we went though, to fix the problems from the last five years lol

[mastershake]

11 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

He will improve this offense yes, if he returns to rookie form.

There were plenty of times when "Fall Down" Wayne and Morris missed plays, and were nonexistent in the passing game.

Does he get us four or six more wins? NO lol, but unless your a QB you don't have that much influence on the game.

We've argued this point before about last years OL FA class and what the Giants could/couldn't have done but at this point it's all hindsight, and with a cap unfriendly year it's kind of good we didn't throw multiple 10+ million year contracts out last year.

This offseason is going to be the wild west. At the moment the OL FA pool is weak but I fully expect a team to cut some more than capable starting Oline as cap causalities (Bulaga probably being one of them lol)

What does DG and Judge do? who knows, the media and fans are all fucking idiots, us all included.

All I know is I have more faith in Judge/DG and co, than I did in the last two front offices and coaches we went though, to fix the problems from the last five years lol

DG is on year four and the OL is poised to be trash once again. I doubt he brings in any prominent free agents on the OL. He'll likely bring in backup players of the caliber of Cam Fleming, Spencer Pulley, Patrick Omanah, and he'll expect them to be reliable 16 game starters.

[Tempest]

In 2000 the New England Patriots went 5-11 and the following year went 11-5, won the super bowl.

[mastershake]

2 hours ago, Tempest said:

In 2000 the New England Patriots went 5-11 and the following year went 11-5, won the super bowl.

So?

[CrazedDogs]

There's a chance!

[mastershake]

21 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

There's a chance!

Bad teams don't magically get good though. You actually have to improve the team. 

We currently don't have an OL we can win with.

[Tempest]

3 hours ago, mastershake said:

So?

I thought it went well with the theme of the post.  Things to point out.  

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Bad teams don't magically get good though. You actually have to improve the team. 

We currently don't have an OL we can win with.

No, but I'm optimistic that we're pretty close on the OL. It's not like a few years back, when they were just JUST five decent OLs away from having a great offense.

 

[BlueInCanada]

12 hours ago, mastershake said:

DG is on year four and the OL is poised to be trash once again. I doubt he brings in any prominent free agents on the OL. He'll likely bring in backup players of the caliber of Cam Fleming, Spencer Pulley, Patrick Omanah, and he'll expect them to be reliable 16 game starters.

I'm not defending DG, I'm just saying this Oline is better than the Oline four years ago, coaching and talent wise.

I think we finally have the coaching staff that COULD take those players and make them work.

Look at Remmer, the guy is one of the best tackle in the NFL this year, he hasnt given up a single sack.

Why didnt we see that with Shurmur and co?

I bet we would of gotten that play with Judge and co.

[mastershake]

23 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

I'm not defending DG, I'm just saying this Oline is better than the Oline four years ago, coaching and talent wise.

I think we finally have the coaching staff that COULD take those players and make them work.

Look at Remmer, the guy is one of the best tackle in the NFL this year, he hasnt given up a single sack.

Why didnt we see that with Shurmur and co?

I bet we would of gotten that play with Judge and co.

Giants OL sacks by year (+16 sacks and 9 spots worse vs 4 years ago):

2017: 34 (21st)

2018: 47 (23rd)

2019: 43 (19th)

2020: 50 (30th)

 

Giants OL Sack % (+3.5% and 19 spots worse vs 4 years ago):

2017: 5.3% (12th)

2018: 7.46% (20th

2019: 6.62% (14th) 

2020: 8.82% (31st)

 

[BlueInCanada]

30 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Giants OL sacks by year (+16 sacks and 9 spots worse vs 4 years ago):

2017: 34 (21st)

2018: 47 (23rd)

2019: 43 (19th)

2020: 50 (30th)

 

Giants OL Sack % (+3.5% and 19 spots worse vs 4 years ago):

2017: 5.3% (12th)

2018: 7.46% (20th

2019: 6.62% (14th) 

2020: 8.82% (31st)

 

We've been through this in the other thread about the Oline and all the stats we've both brought up lol 

The sacks allowed and time to pass got better in the final half of the year, the rushing game was better than the in 2019, etc. We no longer have a player from that 2017 Oline and that team went 3-13 despite the stats you are trying to ram home.

Once again I feel like this coaching staff and Oline played better in the second half of the year, and I can only expect that the play gets better. 

In fact in all those years you posted the best winning record was this year despite you saying it was the worst Oline we've ever had these last four years. 

You bring Bakrley back and a talented WR on the outside this 2020 team probably has one or two more wins, or a TE who isn't playing for the other side.

I'm hoping for a starting RT and WR in FA or the draft.

I'm fine with the combo of Thomas, Lemieux, Gates holding down the core with Peart still learning and getting experience. 

You bring in a starting RT then you find someone at RG (Fuck it throw Solder there lol) and this line is probably improving.

I mean what else can we do as fans? We have to work with that the teams got.

I like the HC, hate the GM and most of the roster. 

I'm just done with acting like my disappointment with the team will matter lol 

[CrazedDogs]

9 hours ago, mastershake said:

Giants OL sacks by year (+16 sacks and 9 spots worse vs 4 years ago):

2017: 34 (21st)

2018: 47 (23rd)

2019: 43 (19th)

2020: 50 (30th)

 

Giants OL Sack % (+3.5% and 19 spots worse vs 4 years ago):

2017: 5.3% (12th)

2018: 7.46% (20th

2019: 6.62% (14th) 

2020: 8.82% (31st)

 

eh, those stats tell you more about the QB and the scheme than they do the quality of the OL.

[mastershake]

9 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

We've been through this in the other thread about the Oline and all the stats we've both brought up lol 

The sacks allowed and time to pass got better in the final half of the year, the rushing game was better than the in 2019, etc. We no longer have a player from that 2017 Oline and that team went 3-13 despite the stats you are trying to ram home.

Once again I feel like this coaching staff and Oline played better in the second half of the year, and I can only expect that the play gets better. 

In fact in all those years you posted the best winning record was this year despite you saying it was the worst Oline we've ever had these last four years. 

You bring Bakrley back and a talented WR on the outside this 2020 team probably has one or two more wins, or a TE who isn't playing for the other side.

I'm hoping for a starting RT and WR in FA or the draft.

I'm fine with the combo of Thomas, Lemieux, Gates holding down the core with Peart still learning and getting experience. 

You bring in a starting RT then you find someone at RG (Fuck it throw Solder there lol) and this line is probably improving.

I mean what else can we do as fans? We have to work with that the teams got.

I like the HC, hate the GM and most of the roster. 

I'm just done with acting like my disappointment with the team will matter lol 

Lemuiex flashed at times but also had some serious gaps in his game last year; very inconsistent.  Gates was only okay.

You can get away with having a guy like Lemuiex on the OL if 3-4 of the guys around him are solid, which in our case they are not.

If we surrounded Thomas and Gates with additional quality lineman, at least two additions, I'd feel a lot better. We really need three. And if we go into the season with Hernandez, Lemuiex, and Peart all starting on the OL, then we're fucked.

We need to make some significant improvements or else it'll be another lost season. I just don't see DG bringing in good OL or drafting OL high.