So Gettleman.

[mastershake]

He wouldn't of been on the books for 2021 but neither would guys like Bradberry or Martinez lol 

That's not true, I just found you all the cap space you needed, plus extra cap space, to sign Bulaga and Glasgow easily. I found it for you in both 2020 and 2021 using both scenarios, opt out or no opt out.

[mastershake]

And I say again, if we go into 2021 relying on three 2nd year players (two of them being Peart and Lemieux) plus Nick Gates, as starters, then that's a failed off-season, and the offense will struggle.

Also also, if Nate Solder is on this roster in 2021 (and not cut before Free Agency), then the Mara's should fire Dave Gettleman immediately.

[CrazedDogs]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

Problem #1 with this team when he first came here was the Offensive Line. Problem #1 with this team in 2020 is still the Offensive Line.

The OL is actually worse now than it was back in 2018, with more sacks given up now than then (47 in 2018, 43 in 2019, and 50 in 2020). The offense in general was has gotten worse as well (23.1  pts per game vs 21.3 in 2019 and 17.5 in 2020).

Four out of the six wins this season were against the lousy NFL east. 

In my view, he should be fired.

You should check out some of the analytics work done by footballoutsiders.com, as well as others, on the relationship between OLs, QBs, and RBs, and statistical results such as sacks, ypc, etc.

The short of it is, sacks correlate much more with the QB than the OL, while running metrics are much more dependent on the OL than the RB. 

Another way to put it is, those 47 sacks in 2018, when Eli was getting the ball out as fast as anyone, are not the same as 47 or 50 sacks when the QB is back there obliviously setting up camp.

Definitely do not agree that the OL is worse. 

[mastershake]

3 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

You should check out some of the analytics work done by footballoutsiders.com, as well as others, on the relationship between OLs, QBs, and RBs, and statistical results such as sacks, ypc, etc.

The short of it is, sacks correlate much more with the QB than the OL, while running metrics are much more dependent on the OL than the RB. 

Another way to put it is, those 47 sacks in 2018, when Eli was getting the ball out as fast as anyone, are not the same as 47 or 50 sacks when the QB is back there obliviously setting up camp.

Definitely do not agree that the OL is worse. 

The running game is worse this year too, and it was bad with Barkley! LOL

Even if we agree to disagree on the OL being worse this year vs 2018, it's still a BAD OL nonetheless. We need to obtain at least three starters this offseason on the OL, presuming we're cutting Zeitler loose because of his massive cap hit.

[mastershake]

Also, this is all the more reason DG should be fired. We're in a position where, in year four, we have to fill THREE starting OL slots, and we're in a precarious cap situation with limited resources to do so thanks to him.

[CrazedDogs]

35 minutes ago, mastershake said:

Yes, we should have cut him lose in last year's offseason, before the opt out. The cap savings in 2021 would have been $14mm had DG done that, on that move alone. Of course he didn't, Solder opted out, and now any cap savings from cutting him in 2021 is only $6mm. In other words, Dave Gettleman, through this one move alone, spent $10.5mm of our cap space in 2021 on NOTHING. lol.

There are plenty of other moves I've mentioned, such as not signing Levine Toilolo and Spencer Pulley. That's another $6mm in cap savings on those two guys alone.

I suspect the fan opinion of Solder is somewhere south of most professional opinions. 

I think Pulley's contract is the worst. That guy simply couldn't play anymore. Other than that, I get the thinking on most of those roster filler free agents.

[CrazedDogs]

6 minutes ago, mastershake said:

The running game is worse this year too, and it was bad with Barkley! LOL

Even if we agree to disagree on the OL being worse this year vs 2018, it's still a BAD OL nonetheless. We need to obtain at least three starters this offseason on the OL, presuming we're cutting Zeitler loose because of his massive cap hit.

Especially for the OL, I don't count those first six or so games. The OL in the second half of this season was opening some fucking serious holes for some fucking mediocre running backs. I'd love to see what Barkley can do with some of the openings that Gallman and Morris enjoyed.

Probably true that we still need to upgrade at least two starters on the OL. In 2018 we needed all five though. 

[mastershake]

23 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

Especially for the OL, I don't count those first six or so games. The OL in the second half of this season was opening some fucking serious holes for some fucking mediocre running backs. I'd love to see what Barkley can do with some of the openings that Gallman and Morris enjoyed.

Probably true that we still need to upgrade at least two starters on the OL. In 2018 we needed all five though. 

I think they were an F in the first half, and a C- in the second half. Better, but they had stretches of games where they were inconsistent and where the offense went nowhere.

Also keep in mind, that's with a sorta okay Kevin Zeitler, who because of his massive $14mm cap hit, likely isn't going to be around in 2021, so we really have some serious slots to fill on OL.

[BlueInCanada]

Also because I'm bored cause there's fuck all to do with this lockdown lets look at the Oline stats from 2018 to 2020 because why not?

Rushing

2018 - 1650 yards / 13 TDs / 4.7 Avg (per rush) (Barkleys rookie year)

2019 - 1685 yards / 11 TDs / 4.6 Avg

2020 - 1768 yards / 13TD / 4.5 Avg (Garrett run heavy team with Gallman leading the way lol)

Passing

2018 - 4047 yards / 23 TDs / 6.4 Avg (Per attempt) (Eli the main guy, OBJ and Shepard tandum, Barkley healthy, Shurmur OC)

2019 - 3731 yards / 30 TDs / 5.7 Avg  (Barkley hurt, Eli aging, changing of the guard at QB, Shurmur OC)

2020 - 3026 yards / 12 TDs / 5.5 Avg (Jones first full year starting, Garrett OC, no Barkley, Slayton and Tate tandum lol)

Pressure stats;

2018 - Eli Manning; sacked 47 times, 2.3 Seconds of pocket time avg, blitzed 122 times, hit 41 times, hurried 64 times

2019 - Eli/Jones; sacked 42 times, 2.5 seconds (Jones) 2.3 seconds (Eli) of pocket time avg, blitzed 167 times, hit 74 times, hurried 58 times

2020 - Jones; sacked 45 times (50 total with McCoy, 2.3 seconds avg pocket time, blitzed 221 times, hit 48 times, hurried 60 times.

It's almost like team in 2020 knew that Jones didnt have any support on the outside of a reliable RB so they blitzed the Giants the most of any team in the NFL.

[BlueInCanada]

Oh stats from pro football reference and next gen stats.

[mastershake]

2 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Also because I'm bored cause there's fuck all to do with this lockdown lets look at the Oline stats from 2018 to 2020 because why not?

Rushing

2018 - 1650 yards / 13 TDs / 4.7 Avg (per rush) (Barkleys rookie year)

2019 - 1685 yards / 11 TDs / 4.6 Avg

2020 - 1768 yards / 13TD / 4.5 Avg (Garrett run heavy team with Gallman leading the way lol)

Passing

2018 - 4047 yards / 23 TDs / 6.4 Avg (Per attempt) (Eli the main guy, OBJ and Shepard tandum, Barkley healthy, Shurmur OC)

2019 - 3731 yards / 30 TDs / 5.7 Avg  (Barkley hurt, Eli aging, changing of the guard at QB, Shurmur OC)

2020 - 3026 yards / 12 TDs / 5.5 Avg (Jones first full year starting, Garrett OC, no Barkley, Slayton and Tate tandum lol)

Pressure stats;

2018 - Eli Manning; sacked 47 times, 2.3 Seconds of pocket time avg, blitzed 122 times, hit 41 times, hurried 64 times

2019 - Eli/Jones; sacked 42 times, 2.5 seconds (Jones) 2.3 seconds (Eli) of pocket time avg, blitzed 167 times, hit 74 times, hurried 58 times

2020 - Jones; sacked 45 times (50 total with McCoy, 2.3 seconds avg pocket time, blitzed 221 times, hit 48 times, hurried 60 times.

It's almost like team in 2020 knew that Jones didnt have any support on the outside of a reliable RB so they blitzed the Giants the most of any team in the NFL.

On the rushing, what are the stats for JUST RB's, not QB's. I don't give the OL credit for Jone's runs, especially not the 90 yard scramble where he fell on his own.

Overall the offense was worse.

But look point taken guys. At the very least though, the 2020 line is still a BAD one. We have a lot of work to do.

[BlueInCanada]

3 minutes ago, mastershake said:

On the rushing, what are the stats for JUST RB's, not QB's. I don't give the OL credit for Jone's runs, especially not the 90 yard scramble where he fell on his own.

Overall the offense was worse.

But look point taken guys. At the very least though, the 2020 line is still a BAD one. We have a lot of work to do.

The offense was garbage and the Oline was a big part of it.

I don't think they were the main reason, but they were still a BIG part of it, and I agree with you on that it needs to get better and IT SHOULD BE better with how much we have invested in the position, like I said Garrett's play calling, Jones regression (which yes is partly to blame on the Oline), the lack of WRs being open even when Jones has time to throw the ball which on average was as much as most other years.

It's why I say I don't care if DG gets fired because we've had very little to show for his first two years, this year was a surprise his FA and draft picks, but I still don't think it should save his job.

He's been a shit GM who hasnt managed the cap well (as evident by keeping players like Solder and Zeitler around) and we are heading for a rough year cap wise.