Giants 1st Round Mocks

[mastershake]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:03 PM, BlueInCanada said:

None of the tackles have the complete package and servery lack in one area or the next.

Thomas - size and strength, no technique or footwork.

Becton - size and agility, very weak for his size and his hand technique is garbage.

Wills - probably the most NFL ready, quick, strong and good footwork however probably not a LT and is one of the smaller tackles on the board.

Wirfs - poor man Wills probably going to take a year or two to be NFL ready struggled against good competition in college.

Jackson - probably the best pass protector on the draft but doesn't play with strength but mobility and footwork is top notch.

Out of them all I think Wills is the easy pick at #4 however he will take some time to adjust to the LT position and will get abused by bull rushers.

You can read about the incompleteness of almost every player in a draft. Every player is a projection. Some can develop and correct their issues; others, like Ereck Flowers, can't..

For instance, here's what scouts said about Taylor Lewan...yet several pro bowls later.

WEAKNESSES

Is not a gritty, physical finisher. Has a lean lower body and does not explode on contact. Can be inverted by power and does not carry a load in his hands. Could do a better job recognizing and adjusting to the outside blitz. Quirky personality that can be easily misunderstood.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

You can read about the incompleteness of almost every player in a draft. Every player is a projection. Some can develop and correct their issues; others, like Ereck Flowers, can't..

For instance, here's what scouts said about Taylor Lewan...yet several pro bowls later.

WEAKNESSES

Is not a gritty, physical finisher. Has a lean lower body and does not explode on contact. Can be inverted by power and does not carry a load in his hands. Could do a better job recognizing and adjusting to the outside blitz. Quirky personality that can be easily misunderstood.

Oh I'm not saying any of the pundits are right or whats out there in terms of analysis however there is no "the guy" at OT this year. Combine is always make or break for Oline players.

It's just that there's no prospect that's the pick you need to get to be your next franchise LT.

And those negatives on Lewan aren't to far off he isn't a bruiser he's agile and a great technician.

You didn't list his potivies though where he was one of the top LTs in the draft at a very deep OT draft and easy top 10 pick.

I'm just saying in everything I've read the defensive players in this draft are the best athletes overall and talent wise.

But that's why the draft is so great can't miss players turn out to be busts more often than not.

 

 

[Iceman_NYG]

Now Miami and San Diego will both go hard for Skins and also the Lions for a trade down (Lions are NOT in the market for a QB if you ask me - not with Stafford's contract and his injury doesnt seem career threatening). If that happens and QBs go 1,2,3 - Giants better stay put and get Young at 4 - unless there is a king's ransom offered to trade down.

[BlueInCanada]

8 hours ago, Iceman_NYG said:

Now Miami and San Diego will both go hard for Skins and also the Lions for a trade down (Lions are NOT in the market for a QB if you ask me - not with Stafford's contract and his injury doesnt seem career threatening). If that happens and QBs go 1,2,3 - Giants better stay put and get Young at 4 - unless there is a king's ransom offered to trade down.

 

There's rumours that the Bears have fallen hard for a QB in the draft and will offer up Mack and some picks to trade up into the top 5, some are reporting the Redskins have been entertaining the offer.

[Nas]

8 hours ago, Iceman_NYG said:

Now Miami and San Diego will both go hard for Skins and also the Lions for a trade down (Lions are NOT in the market for a QB if you ask me - not with Stafford's contract and his injury doesnt seem career threatening). If that happens and QBs go 1,2,3 - Giants better stay put and get Young at 4 - unless there is a king's ransom offered to trade down.

+1

[CrazedDogs]

21 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

 

There's rumours that the Bears have fallen hard for a QB in the draft and will offer up Mack and some picks to trade up into the top 5, some are reporting the Redskins have been entertaining the offer.

Sounds made up. It would have to be Mack + I don't even know what. Multiple high picks.

[Nas]

4 minutes ago, CrazedDogs said:

Sounds made up. It would have to be Mack + I don't even know what. Multiple high picks.

Doesn't Mack have a hefty contract anyway?  Not sure where the value is here. 

[CrazedDogs]

Just now, Prince_Nas said:

Doesn't Mack have a hefty contract anyway?  Not sure where the value is here. 

yeah, it's a cap savings deal for Chicago.... they'd have to compensate Washington to take the contract. 

could be a deal that makes sense from both sides though.... if Chicago thinks they're not going to seriously compete soon, then Mack plus three or four premium picks in 2020 and 2021, to go get their QB? I think Washington may listen to that offer.... 

[BlueInCanada]

2 hours ago, CrazedDogs said:

Sounds made up. It would have to be Mack + I don't even know what. Multiple high picks.

It's Mack and a bunch of picks rom what the rumours are flying around, speculation of multiple second and third round picks.

Once again just rumors but apparently the Bears have found a QB they like more than Trubonerski who will be gone before they pick.

[Sephiroth]

Honestly, I want to trade down 1-3 spots and still land a blue-chip player... while making up for the baffling Leonard Williams trade. 

[BlueInCanada]

38 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

Honestly, I want to trade down 1-3 spots and still land a blue-chip player... while making up for the baffling Leonard Williams trade. 

The thing that irks me more than anything is if we resign him.

The fifth round pick gets pushed to a fourth.

A third and a fourth for Williams lol

 

[Sephiroth]

17 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

The thing that irks me more than anything is if we resign him.

The fifth round pick gets pushed to a fourth.

A third and a fourth for Williams lol

 

AND we have to pay him!  It literally made no sense. 

[mastershake]

3 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

AND we have to pay him!  It literally made no sense. 

 

If we pay him more than $10mm per year, Gettlemen is a fool and should be fired.

Might as well pay Chris Jones or Arik Armstead at that point.

[BlueInCanada]

1 hour ago, mastershake said:

 

If we pay him more than $10mm per year, Gettlemen is a fool and should be fired.

Might as well pay Chris Jones or Arik Armstead at that point.

Imagine if the Chiefs let Jones walk?

Guys the best DT in football.

Would be stupid but they also have to pay Mahomes.

[Iceman_NYG]

The more I think of it the more I feel there was a major constipated Brain Fart on Gettleman's part in the Leonard Williams trade - its not like we were gonna shoot for a glory bukkakke and its not like he was the missing piece that would have put us over the top. Am still not able to fathom - he's not a bad player - he is useful for the Giants but not at that price.

Time for the Chargers to pay us back for all those picks they wasted for Eli - I for one feel, by the time the combine is done - this whole draft board will change drastically. Thats when the trade up trade down offers will really hold water.

 

[mastershake]

9 hours ago, Iceman_NYG said:

The more I think of it the more I feel there was a major constipated Brain Fart on Gettleman's part in the Leonard Williams trade - its not like we were gonna shoot for a glory bukkakke and its not like he was the missing piece that would have put us over the top. Am still not able to fathom - he's not a bad player - he is useful for the Giants but not at that price.

Time for the Chargers to pay us back for all those picks they wasted for Eli - I for one feel, by the time the combine is done - this whole draft board will change drastically. Thats when the trade up trade down offers will really hold water.

 

Yes. And Getty needs to avoid the overpaying him this offseason. Anything more than $10mm per year is too much, plus let's not forget the 5th round pick we would give up to the Jets changes to a 4th if he re-signs. Please don't get us caught in a sunken cost fallacy. Just cut your losses at this point and accept losing the 3rd and 5th.

[mastershake]

18 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Imagine if the Chiefs let Jones walk?

Guys the best DT in football.

Would be stupid but they also have to pay Mahomes.

They are not in a great cap position, and may have to re-sign Mahomes at this point, though they could cut Watkins and free up a lot of room. We're in a relatively stronger cap position.

I'd love Jones if possible. If not, for DL, I'd be happy with Armstead.

I would go all in on one of those two, because after those, there really isn't much top level talent at DL in free agency. Offer 5 years, $100-110mm I don't consider Leornard Willams top level talent; decent starter, but nothing special. 

I'm also a big believer in controlling the line of scrimmage.

[Nas]

2 hours ago, mastershake said:

Yes. And Getty needs to avoid the overpaying him this offseason. Anything more than $10mm per year is too much, plus let's not forget the 5th round pick we would give up to the Jets changes to a 4th if he re-signs. Please don't get us caught in a sunken cost fallacy. Just cut your losses at this point and accept losing the 3rd and 5th.

I'm not sure what would warrant anything near 7M per year let alone 10. 

[mastershake]

48 minutes ago, Prince_Nas said:

I'm not sure what would warrant anything near 7M per year let alone 10. 

A 10mm cap hit wouldn't even place Leonard Williams on the top 25 of DL salaries in the league.

Browsing that level currently, you have guys like Eddie Goldman, Damon Harrison, Trent Murphy...Williams is probably around that talent level.

Personally, if we're going to spend on a DL, we should just go all in for Chris Jones, with a 5 year 100-120 million dollar contract, or something close to that.

[BlueInCanada]

Hot cakes offseason edition.

Rumours are Leonard Williams is looking to reunite with Todd Bowels DC for the Bucs who was a key member of drafting him when he was a HC with the Jets.

I keep forgetting after the shit trade that Williams has zero reason to stay with the Giants.

[mastershake]

22 hours ago, BlueInCanada said:

Hot cakes offseason edition.

Rumours are Leonard Williams is looking to reunite with Todd Bowels DC for the Bucs who was a key member of drafting him when he was a HC with the Jets.

I keep forgetting after the shit trade that Williams has zero reason to stay with the Giants.

Yes, therein lies the problem with the trade. Why give up draft picks for a guy in the last year of his contract, for 8 games in a failing season????

If you really want him, the logical thing to do would be to try to sign him in the offseason, and NOT trade for him.

I seriously believe Getty should be fired over it for gross incompetence. Has Getty even acknowledged this massive drawback to trading for Leonard Williams, and recognized his error?

[Tempest]

4 hours ago, mastershake said:

Yes, therein lies the problem with the trade. Why give up draft picks for a guy in the last year of his contract, for 8 games in a failing season????

If you really want him, the logical thing to do would be to try to sign him in the offseason, and NOT trade for him.

I seriously believe Getty should be fired over it for gross incompetence. Has Getty even acknowledged this massive drawback to trading for Leonard Williams, and recognized his error?

It is amazing to me that this is an issue.  Giants won 4 games and this is what fans are hung up on.

[Nas]

On 2/13/2020 at 1:44 PM, BlueInCanada said:

Hot cakes offseason edition.

Rumours are Leonard Williams is looking to reunite with Todd Bowels DC for the Bucs who was a key member of drafting him when he was a HC with the Jets.

I keep forgetting after the shit trade that Williams has zero reason to stay with the Giants.

That maybe the best case scenario... don't get like a compensatory pick or something?

[Mr. P]

16 hours ago, Prince_Nas said:

That maybe the best case scenario... don't get like a compensatory pick or something?

It would depend who else we signed.  
 

We are going to have a fuck ton of cap space so we will very likely not get a comp pick.  

[BlueInCanada]

17 hours ago, Prince_Nas said:

That maybe the best case scenario... don't get like a compensatory pick or something?

It depends on how much $$$ you spend in FA.

If Williams goes and signs a 8-9 million a year contract with the Bucs, but the Giants go out and sign someone like Jones/Clowney/Najuookykugkukugjujujuj for 15+ million a year, then they wont get a pick.

The best case scenario is the Giants put a second round tender on Williams, and some team is dumb enough to give us a second round pick for Williams and signs him away from the team.