So pick #2

[BlueInCanada]

Thats the exact guy who always comes to mind when I think of Rosen. All the ability in the world and questions about his desire to play. I think most of the guys under consideration would be great selections but hard pass on this guy with a pick as valuable as this

And you know because of that and the more I think about it, none, not a single one of these QBs is worth the number 2 selection.

 

I really hope Gettleman doesn't pull the trigger on a QB, go with Barkley or Fitz.

[fringe]

They are saying Rosen acts just like Jay Cuttler

I'll take that out of school:

 

 

t’s NFL Draft season and I was curious to revisit what scouts, coaches and media said about Jay Cutler back in 2006. I found an article on USA Today that called Cutler a team guy who was used to the pressure. In the article there were some interesting quotes and his stat line.

Sponsored by Connatix

• Bench pressed 405 pounds and at the NFL Scouting Combine put together 23 bench reps of 225 pounds.

• “Teams and scouts have fallen in love with Cutler’s size, arm, mobility and intangibles.”

• ESPN’s Chris Mortensen rated Cutler as the No. 1 quarterback.

• NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock said, “From a physical skill set, I think Cutler has the biggest arm in the draft. I think he has a quicker release than either of the other two (Matt Leinart and Vince Young). He’s tough. I think he played behind a very poor offensive line without a whole lot of help. … When I look at that kid and what he did on tape, he can make throws that I don’t think the other two kids can make.”

• Cutler was named a team captain the past three seasons at Vanderbilt.

• Held school records with 9,953 yards in offense, 59 passing touchdowns and 167 consecutive passes without an interception.

• Vandy quarterback coach Jimmy Kiser said, “Jay’s transition to the pro game is going to be easier than for other people who have played with tremendous talent on their team. He’s used to the speed of the game and people flying around him, and throwing the ball with tremendous pressure on him.”

• “He knew he was going to have to get bigger and stronger to weather all those hits. He never backed off,” Vandy head coach Bobby Johnson says. “Sometimes he tried to run over guys. We tried to get that out of him. He’s not a ‘protect me’ kind of guy. He’ll stand up and say, ‘I can handle it.’ “

[Herc]

I think cutlers current attitude is something that he developed. He used to have kind of a fiery asshole Phil rivers rep and I think all those years beat him down into not giving a fuck.

[Mr. P]

https://articles.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/02/josh_rosen_crushes_new_york_trent_dilfer_explains.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

https://articles.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/02/josh_rosen_crushes_new_york_trent_dilfer_explains.amp?__twitter_impression=true

so a smart heeb will do well in New York?

 

Color me shocked

 

I bet he can run a hedge fund better than the two minute drill.

 

Probably make one hell of a j.ewler too

[Bigblue25]

https://www.bigblueview.com/2018/2/21/17020882/2018-nfl-draft-ny-giants-qb-spotlight-josh-rosen-and-the-power-of-play-action

 

2018 QB spotlight: Josh Rosen and the power of play-action

Here is one of the things that makes Josh Rosen an attractive prospect

By Dan Pizzuta on February 21, 2018 12:00 pm

 

 

Photo by Sean M. Haffey/Getty Images

The New York Giants have the second overall pick in the 2018 NFL Draft. More likely than not, that pick will be used on a quarterback to find the eventual successor to Eli Manning. Theres a solid group of quarterbacks in this draft class, but no obvious top prospect. Because of that, well take a look into a few aspects of the quarterbacks and how they might fit with the Giants.

 

 

Previously: Baker Mayfield

 

Today well continue with a quarterback routinely mocked to the Giants with the No. 2 overall pick, UCLAs Josh Rosen.

 

This years quarterback class is going to be a Rorschach test on how evaluators rate traits of the position. For those that value production, theres a guy. Prefer athleticism? Definitely a guy for that. Rather your quarterback look the part? Yup, guy for that too.

 

Even as theres differing values placed on the most important parts of what makes a successful quarterback, just about everyone is going to agree Josh Rosen is the best passer of the group. That doesnt necessarily mean best quarterback, but Rosen has the arm and anticipation to be accurate to all levels of the field. Hes mechanically sound, which makes him stand out in a group that includes the funky delivery of Sam Darnold, the need to create passing lanes from Baker Mayfield, and the occasionally narrow strides from Lamar Jackson.

 

 

Rosen has the cliche ability to make all the throws and theres nowhere thats more apparent than off play-action an increasingly important tool in bringing along young quarterbacks to the NFL.

 

Smart coaching staffs in the NFL have increased the rate of play-action to create easier reads for young or backup quarterbacks. Sean McVay helped turn Jared Goff around by heavily implementing play-action in the Los Angeles Rams offense. In Goffs rookie year under Jeff Fisher, the Rams used play-action on just 16 percent of their passes, which ranked 26th in the league per Sports Info Solutions charting from Football Outsiders. Under McVay, the Rams used play-action on 28 percent of their passes the highest rate in the league and Goff averaged 8.9 yards per attempt on those throws.

 

Similarly, the Philadelphia Eagles went heavy play-action with Carson Wentz for the majority of the regular season and even heavier with Nick Foles. The Eagles ran play-action on 26 percent of their passes in the regular season tied for second-most and had some type of run-action on 21 of Foless 48 passes (48.8 percent) in the Super Bowl.

 

On the other side, the Cleveland Browns did little to help out their rookie quarterback thrown into the fire. Cleveland ran play-action on 15 percent of its passes, the fourth-lowest rate in the league last season.

 

Teams should run play-action more and the more progressive offenses will, especially since theres little data to suggest a good or efficient run game is needed to run play-action well. Simply, the best way to have a good play-action attack is to perform play-action well.

 

Whichever team drafts Rosen should make sure to include a heavy dose of play-action in the offense to both set up easier reads and put the quarterback in a position to do what hes done best surgically deconstruct a defense.

 

Rosens anticipation works perfectly when paired with a play-action pass. He can see the field and know which route will eventually get open. Against Stanford, Rosen froze a safety (2) with the run-fake and had the ball waiting for his receiver once he was clear behind the defender.

 

Take a closer look at where the receiver was when Rosen started to release the ball not yet past the safety.

 

Then where the receiver and the ball meet well past the defenders with plenty of room to run.

 

Another place Rosen excels with play-action is his ability to turn his back to the defense on the fake from under center. Using play-action from shotgun is not an inferior use of the strategy, but having a quarterback able to turn his back to the defense then reset to throw is an added wrinkle that helps in the sell of the fake. Its something Matt Ryan struggled with in his first season under Kyle Shanahan in 2015, but mastered during his MVP season in 2016.

 

Rosen already has this down and still adds his accuracy and anticipation especially to the intermediate parts of the field on top of it. Below is a play against USC, a defense that ranked ninth against the pass by S&P+ in 2017. Rosen sold the fake on a third-and-8, turned back around to find his receiver crossing the field from his right to left, and placed the ball right before a safety came in to make a hit.

 

If that ball is thrown earlier, the receiver doesnt have enough separation from the cornerback. If its thrown later, that safety is there to knock that ball out and potentially turn that into a more dangerous play.

 

Play-action can also open up shots down the field and Rosen isnt afraid to take them. Heres Rosen against Arizona State again under center, back turned to the defense, and a deep throw past the hands of a diving defender right in the hands of his receiver.

 

Rosen isnt particularly mobile though UCLA did run a few successful read-option keepers near the goal line this season but he can still use the run-pass option (RPO) without the quarterback run option, which makes it closer to the professional version of the concept.

 

How hed fit with the Giants

In Minnesota, Pat Shurmur was a big proponent of using play-action with Case Keenum. The Vikings used play-action on 26 percent of their passes attempts and averaged 8.7 yards per attempt on those throws despite being below average in run efficiency (18th in rushing DVOA).

 

Pairing Rosen with Odell Beckham, Sterling Shepard, Evan Engram, and a pass-catching running back in an efficient play-action system would make an immediate impact on offense. Rosen has the skills to succeed outside of that, but the ability to run and excel with play-action will give the team and quarterback a way to ease into the pro game and still have a path to production on the field. This should be the case for all young quarterbacks in their transitions, but with Rosen it could be a dangerous weapon from the start.

[Bigblue25]

Listening to Shurmur/Gettleman comments from the combine it sounds 100% they are going to draft Barkley

[Mr. P]

At the same time, that's what I'd say if I did want to draft a qb.

 

Make Cleveland think we will take Barkley so they do and we get our choice of the qb's.

[Bigblue25]

At the same time, that's what I'd say if I did want to draft a qb.

 

Make Cleveland think we will take Barkley so they do and we get our choice of the qb's.

Thinking this as a possibility too. Reese didn't know what smoke was and told people in February the exact draft plans

[gmenroc]

As I said in previous weeks, making the world think we're taking Barkley increases the value of our pick. The dropoff from RB1 to RB2 is far greater than the dropoff from QB1 to QB2 or QB2 to QB3 (if Cleveland takes a QB at 1 overall). In other words, assuming Cleveland takes a QB at 1 overall, there are 2 or 3 QBs without much separation among them, meaning that a team would be more likely to trade up to 3 or 4 (paying less in draft picks to do so) and still get one of the QBs.

 

However, if we have the world convinced we're taking Barkley, RB needy teams would be more likely to move up to get him. We could drop down, and get the QB that we actually wanted all along.

 

Whether the comments from Gettleman are true or not...keep in mind it's officially 'don't believe anything you read' season in the NFL when it comes to trades, rumors, draft, etc.

[Nas]

Thinking this as a possibility too. Reese didn't know what smoke was and told people in February the exact draft plans

 

I don't think that's accurate... often times we were shocked by the pick... who of us expected Eli Apple or Engram??? I know I didn't.... I know I correctly predicted the Flowers pick

[Nas]

As I said in previous weeks, making the world think we're taking Barkley increases the value of our pick. The dropoff from RB1 to RB2 is far greater than the dropoff from QB1 to QB2 or QB2 to QB3 (if Cleveland takes a QB at 1 overall). In other words, assuming Cleveland takes a QB at 1 overall, there are 2 or 3 QBs without much separation among them, meaning that a team would be more likely to trade up to 3 or 4 (paying less in draft picks to do so) and still get one of the QBs.

 

However, if we have the world convinced we're taking Barkley, RB needy teams would be more likely to move up to get him. We could drop down, and get the QB that we actually wanted all along.

 

Whether the comments from Gettleman are true or not...keep in mind it's officially 'don't believe anything you read' season in the NFL when it comes to trades, rumors, draft, etc.

 

Yea I believe you 100%

[Herc]

 

I don't think that's accurate... often times we were shocked by the pick... who of us expected Eli Apple or Engram??? I know I didn't.... I know I correctly predicted the Flowers pick

The apple pick was what hes talking about. Everyone knew we wanted Conklin and Floyd so Tennessee traded two spots ahead of us to take Conklin and chicago traded one spot ahead of us to take Floyd. So we panicked and took apple who was a back of the first round pick at best.

 

Meanwhile Conklin made all pro in his fucking rookie season. Thanks Jerry!

[Nas]

The apple pick was what hes talking about. Everyone knew we wanted Conklin and Floyd so Tennessee traded two spots ahead of us to take Conklin and chicago traded one spot ahead of us to take Floyd. So we panicked and took apple who was a back of the first round pick at best.

 

Meanwhile Conklin made all pro in his fucking rookie season. Thanks Jerry!

 

Dammit.

[fringe]

I dont recall a draft where the Giants pulled a miraculous deal or bluffed everyone out. They are normally a straight forward, wait your turn type team. They moved up for Collins which proved out but that wasnt really blockbuster. Would like to see a new attitude in the front office on draft day.

[Tempest]

I dont recall a draft where the Giants pulled a miraculous deal or bluffed everyone out. They are normally a straight forward, wait your turn type team. They moved up for Collins which proved out but that wasnt really blockbuster. Would like to see a new attitude in the front office on draft day.

 

Nobody pulls out miraculous deals because the miracle depends entirely on the results. Giants getting Eli Manning really was a miracle simply because of the two super bowl victories. Very few teams are rewarded for making big deals on draft day. Redskins made a huge trade for RGIII with the Rams and it was a disaster because RGIII never became the QB that was promised.

 

Giants will move up and down on the board of course the problem has always been the disappointing results of it. Looking at history I say it is better to stay put and get better at player evaluation. Hopefully Gettleman is that better talent evaluator.

 

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/All-Time-Giants-draft-picks-acquired-via-trade/0a2bec4b-faa3-4d41-a412-e9c8ecc9c66d

 

Giants moving up for Collins is a blockbuster trade by NFL standards.

[fringe]

 

Nobody pulls out miraculous deals because the miracle depends entirely on the results. Giants getting Eli Manning really was a miracle simply because of the two super bowl victories. Very few teams are rewarded for making big deals on draft day. Redskins made a huge trade for RGIII with the Rams and it was a disaster because RGIII never became the QB that was promised.

 

Giants will move up and down on the board of course the problem has always been the disappointing results of it. Looking at history I say it is better to stay put and get better at player evaluation. Hopefully Gettleman is that better talent evaluator.

 

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/All-Time-Giants-draft-picks-acquired-via-trade/0a2bec4b-faa3-4d41-a412-e9c8ecc9c66d

 

Giants moving up for Collins is a blockbuster trade by NFL standards.

I think you contradicted yourself a few times there. Of course you need to wait for the results, duh- so, in hindsight, there were many miraculous deals as well as many deals that didn't get done that turned out as miraculous. What I would like to see is the Giants being agressive. If that means they move down or up or sideways, so be it. I don't claim to know as much as their experts do.

[Tempest]

I think you contradicted yourself a few times there. Of course you need to wait for the results, duh- so, in hindsight, there were many miraculous deals as well as many deals that didn't get done that turned out as miraculous. What I would like to see is the Giants being agressive. If that means they move down or up or sideways, so be it. I don't claim to know as much as their experts do.

 

I'm trying to see if I have what it takes for politics.

[fringe]

 

I'm trying to see if I have what it takes for politics.

Got my vote!

[BlueInCanada]

At the same time, that's what I'd say if I did want to draft a qb.

 

Make Cleveland think we will take Barkley so they do and we get our choice of the qb's.

 

That's the unique problem with thisdraft though, the Browns got picks 1 and 4.

 

It doesnt matter what the Giants/Colts do at 2 and 3, the Browns are still going to get their guy at pick 1 and pick 4.

 

They take Darnold, the Giants take Barkley/QB/Fitz the Colts take QB/Chubs/Barkley, the Browns then take whatever is left over either Fitz/Barkley or Chubb.

[Bigblue25]

 

I don't think that's accurate... often times we were shocked by the pick... who of us expected Eli Apple or Engram??? I know I didn't.... I know I correctly predicted the Flowers pick

It was Apple because they gave away their intentions on Floyd

[CrazedDogs]

But how do we know that Apple wasn't the target, and that Floyd and Conklin were the smokescreen?

[Nas]

 

I'm trying to see if I have what it takes for politics.

 

lol...

[Nas]

But how do we know that Apple wasn't the target, and that Floyd and Conklin were the smokescreen?

 

Probably because of the end result...

[Herc]

But how do we know that Apple wasn't the target, and that Floyd and Conklin were the smokescreen?

I personally asked Reese and he wouldnt lie to me because he doesnt know how to not show his hand.