Allstarjim Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Don' t forget George Kittle out of Iowa.....other then the bench press...he was in the top 3 of pretty much every one of these TE drills. He has great hands.....ran a 4.53 40......and LOVES to block. Only had 20 catches last year...but he played most of it on a broken foot. I would not be disappointed if the Gmen grabbed him up in the 3rd round...supposedly his stock is shooting up big time. C. Wagon He's athletic, hands are on the smaller side... max effort player... sometimes the blocking is more effort than technique, but you can tell he loves it. There are a lot of good TEs in this draft, Kittle is probably going to be around in round 6. Not a knock on him, just that there are so many really good ones. Hoping the Giants come away with OJ Howard, Bucky Hodges, or Jordan Leggett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 He's athletic, hands are on the smaller side... max effort player... sometimes the blocking is more effort than technique, but you can tell he loves it. There are a lot of good TEs in this draft, Kittle is probably going to be around in round 6. Not a knock on him, just that there are so many really good ones. Hoping the Giants come away with OJ Howard, Bucky Hodges, or Jordan Leggett. I'm a worse homer for Hawkeyes then Democrats Jim.....I know....its that bad. C. Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Kittle could be the dark horse TE of the draft. Maybe we snag him in the 3rd. We still need an OL, whether through the draft or FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Kittle could be the dark horse TE of the draft. Maybe we snag him in the 3rd. We still need an OL, whether through the draft or FA. Draft to fix an immediate need won't cut it... I think we'll have to do both... get a FA to plug a need while drafting a future OL to anchor the position for a long time... I'm really hoping Flowers' 2016 performance was an aberration.... A lot is riding on him living up to his draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Draft to fix an immediate need won't cut it... I think we'll have to do both... get a FA to plug a need while drafting a future OL to anchor the position for a long time... I'm really hoping Flowers' 2016 performance was an aberration.... A lot is riding on him living up to his draft position. They will have to move Flowers to the right side. He can't cut it at LT. We can't go into the season again with him at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm not even ready to say absolutely that Flowers can't be a good left tackle. Plenty of players struggle their first couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm not even ready to say absolutely that Flowers can't be a good left tackle. Plenty of players struggle their first couple years. If we go into the season with him at LT, we're screwed. What indication do you have that Flowers can magically and dramatically make a complete reversal and improve at LT? Has he shown any improvement in the past two years? Do we have a new OL coach that is going to transform and develop him? "Plenty of players struggle." So, pinning your expectation of Flowers on a hope and prayer? Here's how that reads "Surely Flowers will get better at LT because...well, some other plays have done in the past, and the giants drafted him high, so he will too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm not saying he will absolutely get better, but I'm also not saying he absolutely won't. And we made the playoffs with him at LT last season, can't just say we are screwed. Hell everyone probably thought there was no way we make the playoffs last year. Absolutes just don't really work like that. Players do in fact regularly improve, it can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm not saying he will absolutely get better, but I'm also not saying he absolutely won't. And we made the playoffs with him at LT last season, can't just say we are screwed. Hell everyone probably thought there was no way we make the playoffs last year. Absolutes just don't really work like that. Players do in fact regularly improve, it can happen. What indications are that that it can happen with Flowers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I think its more reasonable to expect a third year player to improve from his second year. Assuming work ethic, etc., is all there. So I think the real question is, why wouldn't we expect Flowers to improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I think its more reasonable to expect a third year player to improve from his second year. Assuming work ethic, etc., is all there. So I think the real question is, why wouldn't we expect Flowers to improve? Because it appeared he regressed from year one to year two, showed no signs of correcting his deficiencies, and couldn't even be just functional at the LT position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Because it appeared he regressed from year one to year two, showed no signs of correcting his deficiencies, and couldn't even be just functional at the LT position. Didn't we have a change in the OL Coach from his 1st year to his 2nd? I remember I thought coaching was to blame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Didn't we have a change in the OL Coach from his 1st year to his 2nd? I remember I thought coaching was to blame... Yeah we lost one of the best Oline coaches in the NFL for one who seems to be unable to develop guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Because it appeared he regressed from year one to year two, showed no signs of correcting his deficiencies, and couldn't even be just functional at the LT position. Not to mention, when you are drafted top 10 in the NFL you should be coming into the NFL with the skills/development to be thrown into the fire, after playing in some pro college scheme or just having good coaching. Flowers instead has been getting steadily worse as he's played more. I want the Gints to hold him until his rookie contract is up but the guy needs to get his shit together or else end up on the next NFL networks "Drafts bust list" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Didn't we have a change in the OL Coach from his 1st year to his 2nd? I remember I thought coaching was to blame... How was our O-Line last year under the new coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Not to mention, when you are drafted top 10 in the NFL you should be coming into the NFL with the skills/development to be thrown into the fire, after playing in some pro college scheme or just having good coaching. Flowers instead has been getting steadily worse as he's played more. I want the Gints to hold him until his rookie contract is up but the guy needs to get his shit together or else end up on the next NFL networks "Drafts bust list" And another thing to add...I know only anecdotel, but still: On at least three occasions, Flowers, while still facing a single defender in pass blocking, completely failed to touch the defender as the defender ran and hit Eli. Now I'm not a football expert or OL coach but the first thing you need to do, from my understanding, is get your fucking hands on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I want the Gints to hold him until his rookie contract is up but the guy needs to get his shit together or else end up on the next NFL networks "Drafts bust list" Lol, well if he never improves upon 2016, that's where he's going to end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I'm just saying, unless he's not putting in the work, he probably just needs time. Kid was still growing, its early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osi724dasack Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 What indications are that that it can happen with Flowers? Raw talent, size, tools, toughness. He's got the traits.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Raw talent, size, tools, toughness. He's got the traits.. How was his performance with those traits the last two years? Lots of guys are big and tough. And he's not exactly tough in pass blocking, in case you haven't noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 What indications are that that it can happen with Flowers? To be fair after thinking on it some, we have seen the type of player progression in our very own Gints. Webster was benched outright and regressed year after year, and he turned into a top 5 corner in his prime years. Manning sucked donkey balls his first few years not really showing much progression before turning the corner in 2007. Hell it took blowing his hand off for JPP to finally learn how to use technique at the DE instead of just trying to out physical the OT. Flowers isnt going to get better sitting on the pine or the Gints throwing money at someone else, he just hasnt shown that he can take a step forward either. It's silly to give up on a player like Flowers this early, but it's not unreasonable to think if he doesnt show any improvement by the end of his four year contract he wont be in blue after it (but the same can be said for any player not performing lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 To be fair after thinking on it some, we have seen the type of player progression in our very own Gints. Webster was benched outright and regressed year after year, and he turned into a top 5 corner in his prime years. Manning sucked donkey balls his first few years not really showing much progression before turning the corner in 2007. Hell it took blowing his hand off for JPP to finally learn how to use technique at the DE instead of just trying to out physical the OT. Flowers isnt going to get better sitting on the pine or the Gints throwing money at someone else, he just hasnt shown that he can take a step forward either. It's silly to give up on a player like Flowers this early, but it's not unreasonable to think if he doesnt show any improvement by the end of his four year contract he wont be in blue after it (but the same can be said for any player not performing lol) We've also had many players who never pulled a Webster, and simply faded away. Is anyone confident and happy going into the season with Flowers at LT? If we come out of this offseason with Flowers at LT, and Bobbie Hart at RT (or a rookie at LT), then the offseason has been a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 We've also had many players who never pulled a Webster, and simply faded away. Is anyone confident and happy going into the season with Flowers at LT? If we come out of this offseason with Flowers at LT, and Bobbie Hart at RT (or a rookie at LT), then the offseason has been a failure. I dont think a team can "win or fail" at an offseason until week 16 rolls around, I mean look at what happened to the Eagles "championship" offseason. If the Gints are heading into the playoffs again I don't think anyone can say such things. If the Gints are 2-14, Eli is on IR, OBJ has been traded to the Pats, and Flowers has knocked up MacAttacks wife, then you can say it's a failure. And yes I agree players flame out in the NFL, I was the biggest Moss supporter around here, but the players still need a chance to improve or atleast show that they can. You don't just bail on a plan after two years, that's what the Redskins do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Also. I don't think anyone is "happy" with the OL situation, I wasnt even happy with it at the beginning of the last season. However the Gints still made the playoffs, relying (and rightfully so) on their heavily financially invested defense. The D has remain practically unchanged from last year and I suspect they will only improve as a unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Webb reminds me of a Brock OverpaidWilder and Chad Pennington. He can hit anyone inside the 10 but anything outside of the 15 it's a fucking guess if it's gonna hit the ground, sail, or end up in the DBs hands. Then again I guess that's like Eli now so nothing new LOL Well fuck lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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