Gman329 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 OL is well below league average, which is why we're 31st (last I checked) in rushing. Tough to have "pocket presence" when you can't count on more than 2 seconds and nobody gets open. And in those instances when the OL does give Eli more time, he's still operating with the speeded up clock in his head and the receivers still aren't getting separation, anyway. Do you guys think Eli just forgot how to play QB? There are many factors I'd point to before going there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 no pocket presense? LOL! What fucking game are you watching? The pass protection is obviously poor, and yet they're 2nd in the league in sacks given up. That doesn't just happen. Hell yeah Eli goes fetal when he's about to get slammed.... that's why he's out there every damn week for 12 straight years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Manning feels ghost pressure all game and makes mistakes when it counts. He refuses to step up in the pocket. That's why he isn't a top 10 quarterback. The running game sucks in large part because our running backs are scrubs. Jennings has always been a scrub. When Perkins gets the ball, he averages almost 4 yards per carry. Jennings gets dropped by the first guy that breathes on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 There is no quarterback worse in the red zone than Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Manning feels ghost pressure all game and makes mistakes when it counts. He refuses to step up in the pocket. That's why he isn't a top 10 quarterback. The running game sucks in large part because our running backs are scrubs. Jennings has always been a scrub. When Perkins gets the ball, he averages almost 4 yards per carry. Jennings gets dropped by the first guy that breathes on him. Ghost pressure? No. It's real and Eli has been moving around the pocket this year more than I've ever seen him do......and receivers still aren't open. Eli is the least of our problems. If those around him do their jobs well, including the OL, OC and HC, trust me, Eli will do his job just fine. And Jennings, while unspectacular, is a decent (C+?) runner and though I haven't seen numbers this year, I recall he was one of the league leaders, if not THE leader, in yards after contact last year. I don't think he goes down with a stiff breeze this year, as you suggest. And on SO, SO many running plays, the ball carrier has ZERO chance! He's met by 2 or 3 DL/LB types the second he gets the ball! I said/asked a while back - what % of our running plays go for 2 yards or less? Don't know the number but too damn many is the answer, I know that. Some of this is the OL and I believe some of it is the opposing D knows where the play is going all too often because of formation/personnel/down&distance tendencies/etc. Yes, I'd like to see an upgrade at RB but you gotta give the guy a LITTLE room to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 We need a legit outside receiver. I'm happy that, against all odds, Cruz made it back from that gruesome injury but I think it's about over for him....and he's not an outside guy, anyway......and Shephard isn't either. He'll stay in the slot. Either through free agency or the draft, there will be at least one and probably more than one new WRs in camp next summer. The problem isn't the receivers, it is the lack of a running game. Giants can't run the ball and everyone knows so they sit back blanket the field with 5-6 DBs. McAdoo is going to have to get back to that 2 TE formation again with Newhouse as the other TE. Hasn't been able to do that with all the injuries on the offensive line. I don't get why Will Beatty hasn't been given the opportunity to be that TE. Both are legit points... I think the OL is the glaring need right now but the lack of diversity at WR and TE are our 2nd most glaring issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 The run design of the offense also leaves something to be desired. This team sorely misses a lead blocker out of the backfield. And you can't run draws all game when your line is more of a finesse line and expect to be successful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 OL is well below league average, which is why we're 31st (last I checked) in rushing. Tough to have "pocket presence" when you can't count on more than 2 seconds and nobody gets open. And in those instances when the OL does give Eli more time, he's still operating with the speeded up clock in his head and the receivers still aren't getting separation, anyway. Do you guys think Eli just forgot how to play QB? There are many factors I'd point to before going there. http://www.nfl.com/labs/sidelines/oline/desktop/offensive-lines.html?campaign=fb-nf-sf45599846-sf45599846 OL is ranked tied for 15th. League average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 http://www.nfl.com/labs/sidelines/oline/desktop/offensive-lines.html?campaign=fb-nf-sf45599846-sf45599846 OL is ranked tied for 15th. League average. Did you look at the metrics? Last in rushing, 29th in rushing yards before contact...and 4th QB hits allowed and sack%., giving them the middle of the pack ranking. So when you watch the games, do you see Eli standing back there all day, scanning the field for receivers, as that #4 ranking in hits on QB allowed and sack % would suggest? I sure don't . I see a guy who who knows he has to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or take a drive killing sack. Stats sometimes lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Did you look at the metrics? Last in rushing, 29th in rushing yards before contact...and 4th QB hits allowed and sack%., giving them the middle of the pack ranking. So when you watch the games, do you see Eli standing back there all day, scanning the field for receivers, as that #4 ranking in hits on QB allowed and sack % would suggest? I sure don't . I see a guy who who knows he has to get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or take a drive killing sack. Stats sometimes lie. The offense is built to get rid of the ball quickly so if Eli Manning is throwing the ball quickly after the snap it is not necessarily because the pass protection has already broken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Actually, I see Manning crumple to the ground instead of moving around in the pocket. He's also shown plenty of times he can throw very well on the move so I'm not sure why they don't roll him to his right more when the pressure is getting to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The offense is built to get rid of the ball quickly so if Eli Manning is throwing the ball quickly after the snap it is not necessarily because the pass protection has already broken down. I think the offense getting rid of the ball quickly is a byproduct of a sucky offensive line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's a byproduct of shitty prospects and potential from he college level....so you have to design your offense accordingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 And while Eli will never be Fran Tarkington, he's actually moved around in the pocket a little more than I recall him doing in past years, trying to buy himself a few more seconds. Last game, he even improvised, with that basketball flip to someone (Jennings?) that went for a big gain. If Eli "crumples", it's because he's got no way out, nobody is open and the play is f*cked. The OL isn't playing well and our receivers not named Odell don't seem to get separation (and Odell is doubled and tripled). With the receivers, I don't know if it's them or play design but even when Eli completes a pass, it's with a guy hanging on the receiver's back. No QB is going to look good if nobody gets open in the few seconds he's got to throw. If the OL, receivers and guys designing and calling the plays do their job reasonably well, Eli has shown he can do his job very well. I've said it before and will keep saying it: Eli is the least of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 And while Eli will never be Fran Tarkington, he's actually moved around in the pocket a little more than I recall him doing in past years, trying to buy himself a few more seconds. Last game, he even improvised, with that basketball flip to someone (Jennings?) that went for a big gain. If Eli "crumples", it's because he's got no way out, nobody is open and the play is f*cked. The OL isn't playing well and our receivers not named Odell don't seem to get separation (and Odell is doubled and tripled). With the receivers, I don't know if it's them or play design but even when Eli completes a pass, it's with a guy hanging on the receiver's back. No QB is going to look good if nobody gets open in the few seconds he's got to throw. If the OL, receivers and guys designing and calling the plays do their job reasonably well, Eli has shown he can do his job very well. I've said it before and will keep saying it: Eli is the least of our problems. If opponents can drop 5-6 DBs into coverage each time the Giants are in that 11 personnel formation, receivers will not be getting open. If you can't run the ball, this is what happens and it has been happening all season against every team that decided they can stop the running game with their front four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's a byproduct of shitty prospects and potential from he college level....so you have to design your offense accordingly And a lack of practice time for the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 If opponents can drop 5-6 DBs into coverage each time the Giants are in that 11 personnel formation, receivers will not be getting open. If you can't run the ball, this is what happens and it has been happening all season against every team that decided they can stop the running game with their front four. Agreed. It all starts by being able to run the ball. I've been bitching about that for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I think the offense getting rid of the ball quickly is a byproduct of a sucky offensive line... Actually most NFL teams are getting rid of the ball quicker than in recent years. The game changes every handfull of years. You have defenses that have DEs who can run the 40 faster then most RBs in the NFL. QBs dont have the same time as they did in the pocket 10 years ago. Gone are the days of five and seven step dropbacks. It's why you see so many possession WRs with the production that they do and less emphasis on the "grey hound" WRs who run fly routes every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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