The O line

[Tempest]

 

i disagree Seph ......if we go 5-11 or 6-10 again Mara will replace him in my opinion

 

They are not going to fire Jerry Reese based on the performance of a first year head coach in the NFL.

[Balloonknot]

 

They are not going to fire Jerry Reese based on the performance of a first year head coach in the NFL.

Maybe. I think a determination can be made on the coach vs the personnel he had to work with. Which is why I still think it was wrong to fire Coughlin. Coughlin had brought this team to the playoffs and Superbowl and won them with inferior talent before. But there is a limit to the magic a good coach can do. At somepoint there needs to be some talent for success. Reese has completely shit the bed.

I think the Coughlin firing was more of a wanting to prevent Macadoo from leaving than wanting to get Rid of Coughlin.

[Tempest]

Maybe. I think a determination can be made on the coach vs the personnel he had to work with. Which is why I still think it was wrong to fire Coughlin. Coughlin had brought this team to the playoffs and Superbowl and won them with inferior talent before. But there is a limit to the magic a good coach can do. At somepoint there needs to be some talent for success. Reese has completely shit the bed.

I think the Coughlin firing was more of a wanting to prevent Macadoo from leaving than wanting to get Rid of Coughlin.

 

Getting rid of Tom Coughlin was the Giants doing something to appease the fans. Someone had to pay for years of losing records and it had to be the 69 year old head coach who turned the franchise around. Sure Reese could have done more and there was plenty of blame for the last few years to go around.

 

One person did not create the mess.

[Allstarjim]

 

Once again, he was not drafted to play Left Tackle.

 

You should lend him that 20/20 hindsight you've been using so we can have the "what if" team.

 

What's your problem? I said it wasn't a criticism of Reese, just a what could've been.

 

Everyone does the hindsight thing. If anyone, I'm one of the least critical guys when it comes to criticism of drafts gone by. The draft isn't easy and it is a crapshoot even if you get a talented player (David Wilson, Kenny Phillips, etc.). I'm much more critical of not addressing problems in free agency when cap space is not an issue. That is where I believe Reese's record has been more lackluster. And also for the record, I give him props for being aggressive in getting Vernon, Harrison, and Jenkins here, and I'm one of the few believers in the linebacker overhaul, and thought he had the best draft this year than I can remember as a Giants fan (better than '07).

[Balloonknot]

 

Getting rid of Tom Coughlin was the Giants doing something to appease the fans. Someone had to pay for years of losing records and it had to be the 69 year old head coach who turned the franchise around. Sure Reese could have done more and there was plenty of blame for the last few years to go around.

 

One person did not create the mess.

 

 

Never claimed Tom was without his faults, But the state the Giants was more Reese's fault than Coughlin's. The wrong man paid the price

[Tempest]

What's your problem? I said it wasn't a criticism of Reese, just a what could've been.

 

Everyone does the hindsight thing. If anyone, I'm one of the least critical guys when it comes to criticism of drafts gone by. The draft isn't easy and it is a crapshoot even if you get a talented player (David Wilson, Kenny Phillips, etc.). I'm much more critical of not addressing problems in free agency when cap space is not an issue. That is where I believe Reese's record has been more lackluster. And also for the record, I give him props for being aggressive in getting Vernon, Harrison, and Jenkins here, and I'm one of the few believers in the linebacker overhaul, and thought he had the best draft this year than I can remember as a Giants fan (better than '07).

 

LOL dude not a personal thing. Me using dude is also not a personal thing.

 

Honestly I think the organization does their best to bring in guys who are going to contribute and perform. I can't remember the last draft we looked at and said all these motherfuckers are gonna be busts. That is because we always think maybe Reese got it right and we read those scouting reports too and hope the scouts got it right as well. Marvin Austin turned out to be a waste of time and Mitch Petrus was better at lifting weights then playing football but we had such very high hopes. I can go on but why?

[Dragon]

 

Nope it was never the plan. Giants had just signed Will Beatty to a 5 year contract the same year Pugh was drafted.

Wasn't he a free agent at the time? It'd be foolish not to have re-signed him, but considering all the talk the following years about Zack Martin and then Brandon Scherff and finally Flowers I don't see how there was enough confidence in Beatty long term to say that we weren't looking for a LT.

[Dragon]

 

How many Accorsi drafted players were even on that 2011 team? Eli, DeOssie, and....?

Eli, Jacobs, Diehl, Snee, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Webster, DeOssie... MacKenzie was an Accorsi Free Agent, and Blackburn was an Accorsi udfa that Reese brought back. So essentially 3/5 of the OL, the Defensive Captain and emotional leader, a walking Sack-Forced Fumble, one of the ultimate team-first players (Kiwi), half your RB Combo, your starting MLB, #1 CB, and the greatest QB in franchise history.

[osi724dasack]

Honestly, I'm not as worried about the OL as most if they stay healthy. The TEs neeeeeeeeed to block wayyyy better.

 

I'd start Adams if his blocking is good, then Tye number 2 and Donnell number 3/goal line target.

 

Now if the OL gets hurt, especially anyone of Pugh/Richburg and maybe Flowers, then we are FUCKED so 50/50

[Dragon]

Honestly, I'm not as worried about the OL as most if they stay healthy. The TEs neeeeeeeeed to block wayyyy better.

 

I'd start Adams if his blocking is good, then Tye number 2 and Donnell number 3/goal line target.

 

Now if the OL gets hurt, especially anyone of Pugh/Richburg and maybe Flowers, then we are FUCKED so 50/50

Idk what Adams is as a blocking te. I honestly haven't heard anything about him so far during camp, but you're dead on about the rest of the tes. They all suck horribly as blockers.

 

As far as the OL goes, this team will go as far as the OL lets them. Simple as that. I haven't heard anything bad about Jerry or Richburg so far, but Flowers has been abused, Pugh got hurt, and Newhouse is a 300lb child with no business on an NFL roster... and yes... he has been that horrible. God forbid anyone goes down though. There's no conceivable word for exactly how fucked we'd be.

[CrazedDogs]

Eli, Jacobs, Diehl, Snee, Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Webster, DeOssie... MacKenzie was an Accorsi Free Agent, and Blackburn was an Accorsi udfa that Reese brought back. So essentially 3/5 of the OL, the Defensive Captain and emotional leader, a walking Sack-Forced Fumble, one of the ultimate team-first players (Kiwi), half your RB Combo, your starting MLB, #1 CB, and the greatest QB in franchise history.

That's way more than I thought.

 

Still a minority of the roster, and some of those guys were on their second contract, but point taken.

 

Can't escape that no Eli = no 2011.

[Dragon]

That's way more than I thought.

 

Still a minority of the roster, and some of those guys were on their second contract, but point taken.

 

Can't escape that no Eli = no 2011.

I honestly hope we get back to that before Eli hangs up the cleats, but we need to get the OL and the LBs legitimately taken care of.

[CrazedDogs]

I know... We are nearing the end of his time, and there is a real good chance that we won't have his equal for a while thereafter. Or never again.

[UK-Giantsfan]

well .....this pathetic O line still have no idea how to run block.

 

maybe ....just maybe ....they will be ok at pass blocking when Pugh gets back ...............but im losing faith.

 

At least last year we could pass block quite well and we got loads of passing yards.

 

i'm just hoping that preseason has all been about practising what we are rubbish at ( run blocking ) ......and the regular season will be better.

[Sephiroth]

I know... We are nearing the end of his time, and there is a real good chance that we won't have his equal for a while thereafter. Or never again.

Agreed.

 

I'm hoping when Eli finally hangs it up, the team is more "post Favre Green Bay" than "post Dan Marino Miami."

 

I have no faith in Reese to adequately prepare for the "post Eli Giants."

[Dragon]

well .....this pathetic O line still have no idea how to run block.

 

maybe ....just maybe ....they will be ok at pass blocking when Pugh gets back ...............but im losing faith.

 

At least last year we could pass block quite well and we got loads of passing yards.

 

i'm just hoping that preseason has all been about practising what we are rubbish at ( run blocking ) ......and the regular season will be better.

Even that is misleading. Our offense is predicated on quick passing and Eli knows how to move in the pocket. There were plenty of times where the pass blocking would've gotten him killed if we had a 5 or 7 step dropback instead of 3. He was hit on nearly 1/3 of his pass attempts last year.

[UK-Giantsfan]

True Dragon , you make a good point

[Tempest]

Agreed.

 

I'm hoping when Eli finally hangs it up, the team is more "post Favre Green Bay" than "post Dan Marino Miami."

 

I have no faith in Reese to adequately prepare for the "post Eli Giants."

 

All depends on a quality QB being available for the Giants to draft before Eli Manning retires. Most likely we're going to be the post Phil Simms Giants.

[BlueInCanada]

Agreed.

 

I'm hoping when Eli finally hangs it up, the team is more "post Favre Green Bay" than "post Dan Marino Miami."

 

I have no faith in Reese to adequately prepare for the "post Eli Giants."

 

It depends on who the GM/HC combo is at the time.

 

Eli 35, going on 36 this season end. I don't think he pulls a Peyton or Favre and plays into his 40s.

 

My guess is Eli plays two seasons after this one, and retires before the final year of his contract, especially if the team is on a new HC/GM combo and having more 8-8 seasons under his belt.

 

He has three kids who are all going to be around that age that you want to start watching them grow up, and he honestly doesnt have anything left to prove on the football field.

 

Hopefully JR has he act together, or the new GM has his shit together, and they will draft the best player they can, or possibly trade for a game manager who can help the team win while looking for a new QB, think a Collins 2.0.

 

Who knows maybe the Giants take a flyer on a QB in he first/second round the next couple of years, just weird to think we wont be seeing Eli in blue in a few more seasons.

[Tempest]

 

It depends on who the GM/HC combo is at the time.

 

Eli 35, going on 36 this season end. I don't think he pulls a Peyton or Favre and plays into his 40s.

 

My guess is Eli plays two seasons after this one, and retires before the final year of his contract, especially if the team is on a new HC/GM combo and having more 8-8 seasons under his belt.

 

He has three kids who are all going to be around that age that you want to start watching them grow up, and he honestly doesnt have anything left to prove on the football field.

 

Hopefully JR has he act together, or the new GM has his shit together, and they will draft the best player they can, or possibly trade for a game manager who can help the team win while looking for a new QB, think a Collins 2.0.

 

Who knows maybe the Giants take a flyer on a QB in he first/second round the next couple of years, just weird to think we wont be seeing Eli in blue in a few more seasons.

 

Yeah hey maybe strike gold with a player in the supplemental draft...

[Bigblue25]

 

It depends on who the GM/HC combo is at the time.

 

Eli 35, going on 36 this season end. I don't think he pulls a Peyton or Favre and plays into his 40s.

 

My guess is Eli plays two seasons after this one, and retires before the final year of his contract, especially if the team is on a new HC/GM combo and having more 8-8 seasons under his belt.

 

He has three kids who are all going to be around that age that you want to start watching them grow up, and he honestly doesnt have anything left to prove on the football field.

 

Hopefully JR has he act together, or the new GM has his shit together, and they will draft the best player they can, or possibly trade for a game manager who can help the team win while looking for a new QB, think a Collins 2.0.

 

Who knows maybe the Giants take a flyer on a QB in he first/second round the next couple of years, just weird to think we wont be seeing Eli in blue in a few more seasons.

Honestly I think the McAdoo hire was all about Eli not wanting to start over in a new offense. I don't think ownership was entirely blown away by him. I hope they don't stick with him because Eli wants him if the offense continues to look like it did in the preseason

[Tempest]

Honestly I think the McAdoo hire was all about Eli not wanting to start over in a new offense. I don't think ownership was entirely blown away by him. I hope they don't stick with him because Eli wants him if the offense continues to look like it did in the preseason

 

How do you base your decision in regards to your next head coach who will be responsible for the course of the franchise on a 35 year old quarterback?

[JMFP]

 

Again though, if you want to make the argument that Reese is incompetent, that's fine. But he didn't ignore the OL, he just picked some bad guys.

 

Mitch Petrus. Eric Hermann. J.D. Walton. Geoff Schwartz. Grey Rugamer. Dallas Reynolds. Newhouse and Jerry. Not to mention the guys he may have hit on... Richburg, Flowers, and Pugh. These are all guys brought in to replace the Deihl-MacKenzie line. Personally, I wouldn't take a single guy on the line now over the guy Reese inherited, but he's trying. He's just not as good at assembling a line as Accorsi was... but it's not like he's taking a 6th round guard every season. That line got old overnight, but the late round gambles and low-priced free agents haven't worked out.

Gettleman was the true brains behind the front office.

[osi724dasack]

Gettleman had zero to do with our drafts

 

He gets credit for the 09 FA class, Boley, Rolle, Canty, Rocky, and the other guy. But overall Gettleman had no responsibility with us besides professional player evaluation. Key job indeed , but hardly the brains of the front office.

[JMFP]

 

 

Never claimed Tom was without his faults, But the state the Giants was more Reese's fault than Coughlin's. The wrong man paid the price

+1