Move The Sticks

[Tempest]

Not sure what your argument is. First you said lower draft picks have been the problem. I pointed out that we have 3 starters in the first 3 rounds. Now you say finding talent in the lower rounds is a thing of the past. Yet I'm confident that if you looked at the current top 25 OL in the league, you'll find a mix of rounds in there. Probably averaging around round 4.

*, I should say later rounds instead of lower rounds

 

By the time we drafted Pugh, Richburg and Flowers; the offensive line was already in critical condition.

My point is the Giants should going forward should use the first three rounds on offensive linemen instead of relying on the later rounds. We have found starters in the past in those rounds but haven't in almost ten years.

 

We could point to other teams having success doing this, that and the other thing but doesn't really matter. What matters is what the Giants do.

 

Look at all the starting linebackers every other team in the NFL has managed to find and the Giants have not.

[JMFP]

 

By the time we drafted Pugh, Richburg and Flowers; the offensive line was already in critical condition.

My point is the Giants should going forward should use the first three rounds on offensive linemen instead of relying on the later rounds. We have found starters in the past in those rounds but haven't in almost ten years.

 

We could point to other teams having success doing this, that and the other thing but doesn't really matter. What matters is what the Giants do.

 

Look at all the starting linebackers every other team in the NFL has managed to find and the Giants have not.

 

I agree that offensive lineman in the early rounds usually have more bang for the buck than any other position.

 

Regardless of the offensive fireworks between Eli and Beckham, this offense couldn't run the ball when they really needed it, and that helped to hang the defense out to dry in the 4th quarter.

[CrazedDogs]

The offensive line is the most important position on the offense.

[fringe]

 

By the time we drafted Pugh, Richburg and Flowers; the offensive line was already in critical condition.

My point is the Giants should going forward should use the first three rounds on offensive linemen instead of relying on the later rounds. We have found starters in the past in those rounds but haven't in almost ten years.

 

We could point to other teams having success doing this, that and the other thing but doesn't really matter. What matters is what the Giants do.

 

Look at all the starting linebackers every other team in the NFL has managed to find and the Giants have not.

Then the scouting talent needs to change. I prefer Odells and Elis in the first 2 or 3 rounds, not Bubbas. I'm not saying they are not important but every college team has 5 potential picks at those positions whereas they have 1 or 2 at the skill positions. Do the math.

[CrazedDogs]

Then the scouting talent needs to change. I prefer Odells and Elis in the first 2 or 3 rounds, not Bubbas. I'm not saying they are not important but every college team has 5 potential picks at those positions whereas they have 1 or 2 at the skill positions. Do the math.

 

simply not true. Not even remotely in the ballpark.

[fringe]

 

simply not true. Not even remotely in the ballpark.

College offensive line is not made up of 5 individuals?

[CrazedDogs]

College offensive line is not made up of 5 individuals?

 

yes, and 6 players at the 'skill' positions.

 

And men with the size, agility, and speed to play in the trenches in the NFL are far more rare than men with the attributes required to play any of the skill positions except QB.

[Tempest]

 

yes, and 6 players at the 'skill' positions.

 

And men with the size, agility, and speed to play in the trenches in the NFL are far more rare than men with the attributes required to play any of the skill positions except QB.

 

Guys in the trenches just don't get much credit or love, especially offensive linemen. Don't score a lot of points or sell tickets and only show up on the jumbotron when they fuck up. Every position requires skill, even the long snapper.

[CrazedDogs]

 

Guys in the trenches just don't get much credit or love, especially offensive linemen. Don't score a lot of points or sell tickets and only show up on the jumbotron when they fuck up. Every position requires skill, even the long snapper.

Yeah, I dislike the term 'skill' position.

 

When you watch football at lower levels, talented linemen really stand out. You just don't see them often.

[fringe]

Thank you for agreeing. We are talking about starters not bench. 2 WR 1 or 2 rb 1 QB and 5 offensive linemen. Math tells you there's more depth in that position. You guys are equating importance with high draft picks. I also think OL is important, just more available.

[Tempest]

Thank you for agreeing. We are talking about starters not bench. 2 WR 1 or 2 rb 1 QB and 5 offensive linemen. Math tells you there's more depth in that position. You guys are equating importance with high draft picks. I also think OL is important, just more available.

 

I think that availability is an illusion.

[Iceman_NYG]

More available??? I think OL is probably least available. RBs are probably most available and can be made to look great behind a great OL. To build a great OL you need cohesion, continuous playing time without too many frequent changes, people gelling together and a lot of luck in the players that we get/draft. Once that is in place, automatically the team gets set to be able to control the ball.

[CrazedDogs]

Thank you for agreeing. We are talking about starters not bench. 2 WR 1 or 2 rb 1 QB and 5 offensive linemen. Math tells you there's more depth in that position. You guys are equating importance with high draft picks. I also think OL is important, just more available.

 

LOL, we definitely aren't agreeing.

 

 

More available??? I think OL is probably least available. RBs are probably most available and can be made to look great behind a great OL. To build a great OL you need cohesion, continuous playing time without too many frequent changes, people gelling together and a lot of luck in the players that we get/draft. Once that is in place, automatically the team gets set to be able to control the ball.

 

This. OL or DL are the most difficult to find. (Except for QB, obviously)

[fringe]

 

LOL, we definitely aren't agreeing.

 

 

 

This. OL or DL are the most difficult to find. (Except for QB, obviously)

But not necessarily in the early rounds. There is no real proof that drafting OL's in the early rounds equates to a better run or pass game.

[CrazedDogs]

But not necessarily in the early rounds. There is no real proof that drafting OL's in the early rounds equates to a better run or pass game.

Pass game, it probably doesn't make a huge difference. Run game, I'd wager a lot that there is a strong correlation between prioritizing the OL and a good run game. And I don't like to wager.

[fringe]

Pass game, it probably doesn't make a huge difference. Run game, I'd wager a lot that there is a strong correlation between prioritizing the OL and a good run game. And I don't like to wager.

the difference between our opinions is that you make prioritizing the OL synonymous with high draft picks. I think you can do as well with middle round picks without a fall off in talent. to your point about running game:

http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/13197309/do-highly-drafted-o-linemen-effect-position-player-output-fantasy-football

[Nas]

Pass game, it probably doesn't make a huge difference. Run game, I'd wager a lot that there is a strong correlation between prioritizing the OL and a good run game. And I don't like to wager.

I think that's Dallas' philosophy... Their OL is made up of early round picks.

[CrazedDogs]

the difference between our opinions is that you make prioritizing the OL synonymous with high draft picks. I think you can do as well with middle round picks without a fall off in talent. to your point about running game:

http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/id/13197309/do-highly-drafted-o-linemen-effect-position-player-output-fantasy-football

Interesting read, thanks for digging that up. Don't entirely agree with his methodology (looking only at the rookie year, likely to be the weakest contribution from the high draft picks). Even so, note his results were overall improvement.

[Tempest]

I think that's Dallas' philosophy... Their OL is made up of early round picks.

 

Their philosophy is currently don't let Jerry Jones make the selections anymore. It has been working well for them.

[fringe]

Interesting read, thanks for digging that up. Don't entirely agree with his methodology (looking only at the rookie year, likely to be the weakest contribution from the high draft picks). Even so, note his results were overall improvement.

Not a noticeable improvement from drafting in the middle rounds. He was looking at it from a fantasy football POV. " Should I take the RB's of a team that invested high in OL."

[CrazedDogs]

It was pretty noticeable to me.... Note the diff in 1st rd (or equivalent) investments to the 2nd round investments.

 

The real question though is how they do over a span of post-rookie seasons, compared to teams with a lower level of emphasis.

 

Good article for ESPN though.

[Treehugger]

Treadwell is meeting with 8 teams so far, Giants aren't one of them:

 

San Diego Chargers, Miami Dolphins, Cleveland Browns, Dallas Cowboys, Carolina Panthers, Minnesota Vikings, San Francisco 49ers and Cincinnati Bengals

[RandolphScott]

Treadwell is meeting with 8 teams so far, Giants aren't one of them:

 

San Diego Chargers, Miami Dolphins, Cleveland Browns, Dallas Cowboys, Carolina Panthers, Minnesota Vikings, San Francisco 49ers and Cincinnati Bengals

 

Wouldn't look too much into that. Giants don't always bring in visits to players they don't have questions about.

[Tempest]

 

Wouldn't look too much into that. Giants don't always bring in visits to players they don't have questions about.

 

Quiet you, we are busy over analyzing here. We're going to try and hold tree upside down and reread a few articles through three different mirrors to figure out the who Reese is drafting this year.