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Dan Graziano nails it


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For years, I've been on the same page as this guy....his post mortem is spot on.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/194723/jerry-reese-as-responsible-for-giants-predicament-as-tom-coughlin-was

 

 


 

Of the 46 players active for the New York Giants in their season finale against the Eagles on Sunday, just 14 were drafted by Jerry Reese, who has been the team's general manager since 2007.

 

And it's the coach who has to go?

 

Look, you can make the case that it was time for the Giants to move on from Tom Coughlin, who stepped down Monday after 12 seasons. He had a rotten year with in-game decisions, he missed the playoffs six of the past seven years and his franchise just had three straight losing seasons for the first time since the late 1970s. Any coach who fits that description knows his team is likely to want a change, and Coughlin is no exception. Two Super Bowl titles notwithstanding, this is the life he has chosen. Nobody gets to coach forever.

 

But it's absurd to look at the Giants' current predicament and conclude that the accountability should stop with the coaching staff. The team that Reese and his front office asked Coughlin to coach this year was the worst he has had since he was in Jacksonville, and it wasn't all that much worse than the ones they gave him in 2013 and 2014.

 

Years of unproductive drafts have hollowed out the roster. Of those 14 drafted players active for the Giants on Sunday, half were picked in the past two years and one of the others, Hakeem Nicks, really shouldn't count, because he left and came back as a street free agent.

 

This is a system failure, of course. The Giants' scouts aren't doing a good enough job finding players with NFL upside. Reese has spent too many years taking too many midround chances on projection players such as Damontre Moore, Rueben Randle, Adrien Robinson and James Brewer. And Coughlin and his coaching staff haven't developed enough of these guys.

 

Pinning this mess on Coughlin ignores the extent of the list of people responsible. The Giants' front office has proved itself delinquent when it comes to roster building, and that falls at the feet of Reese. He's not going anywhere, because the Giants' owners are loyal to their people and they don't fire GMs. But no one who's looking at this from the inside or the outside should conclude that changing coaches will fix everything that's wrong.

 

These Giants remain in the midst of a roster rebuild, and it's not going well. Reese gets deserved credit for picking dazzling wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. in the first round in 2014, and his recent high-pick focus on the offensive line shows a promising shift in priorities. But overall, Reese has not done a good job as GM and he needs to accurately assess the ways in which his own failures and mistakes have led the Giants to this point. He needs to make (or be forced to make) changes in the way the Giants' front office assesses and acquires players. He deserves to feel at least as much heat as Coughlin was made to feel this year, because he's at least as responsible for the team's current predicament as Coughlin or anyone on his coaching staff was.

 

Four years in a row and six out of seven outside the playoffs is not acceptable, and it's fair that changes are being made. But to lay all of this on Coughlin would be a shortsighted error, and those left behind need to make sure they don't lay all of the blame on the guy walking out the door. They need to look in the mirror.

 

 

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TC did awesome for us, and Reese is pretty terrible... but I think this is more of a two way street than people are admitting. Reese's drafts might have been bad, but who knows... with anyone but Jerry Palmieri working these guys out, maybe the Hakeem Nicks' and JPPs turn out to be perennial Pro Bowlers instead of guys with "careers cut short due to injury. "

 

Some of the smart people on the board wanted him gone in 2007.

 

http://www.sportswrath.com/index.php?showtopic=17221&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

 

It's fucking 2015... how long do you hold on to a failure? If you're Tom Coughlin, the answer is" until your boss makes you fire him. " Thanks for all you've done Tom, but like it or not you're also part of the problem.

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IMO, Reese has lived off of the all time great draft he had in 2007 for a very long time. He has come up with some hits and some misses. Why can Reese live off that 07 draft (which again, was an all time great one) even now, but Coughlin cant continue to live off of the 2 Super Bowls?

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IMO, Reese has lived off of the all time great draft he had in 2007 for a very long time. He has come up with some hits and some misses. Why can Reese live off that 07 draft (which again, was an all time great one) even now, but Coughlin cant continue to live off of the 2 Super Bowls?

No one can live off not making the playoffs in NY for 4 years. If Reese stays, the team must make the playoffs next season.

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Thing is Ownership said "everyone is on notice" this time last year. Does that not apply to Reese too? Because even coughlins biggest detractors would have to admit we had shit in terms of personnel

Apparently not.

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Some of these guys in the press were,like many here, crying that Gilbride and Fewell had to go because they weren't getting the most out of our talent. Now it's Reese didn't have the talent.

 

Most of us loved the Beason trade. We drafted Wilson and there was talent there.The last few first rounders have clearly been solid. The last 2 2nd rounders are starters. Fact is Reese might be turning it around in terms of draft results and might have earned the right to stay based off of that. Reese ended up being right about Nicks.

 

Tom needed to be better than last year and he wasn't and for the first time in years he actually cost us a game with his decision. A coach cannot keep having losing seasons. I appreciate what he did trust me, but being fair, Reese's performance as a GM might have been better than Coughlin's as a coach these last 2 seasons.

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Some of these guys in the press were,like many here, crying that Gilbride and Fewell had to go because they weren't getting the most out of our talent. Now it's Reese didn't have the talent.

 

Most of us loved the Beason trade. We drafted Wilson and there was talent there.The last few first rounders have clearly been solid. The last 2 2nd rounders are starters. Fact is Reese might be turning it around in terms of draft results and might have earned the right to stay based off of that. Reese ended up being right about Nicks.

 

Tom needed to be better than last year and he wasn't and for the first time in years he actually cost us a game with his decision. A coach cannot keep having losing seasons. I appreciate what he did trust me, but being fair, Reese's performance as a GM might have been better than Coughlin's as a coach these last 2 seasons.

Gilbride needed to go because his gamplanning was stale and opposing teams knew how to bait us into favorable situations.

 

Fewell needed to go because our defense had gotten soft in every sense of the word.

 

Reese has been better IN THE DRAFT since 2013. What about before that? We can't fault him for Wilson but what about the rest of the 2012 draft? 2009, 2010, and 2011 (excluding the recently signed Nicks) have a total of 3 players remaining from all 3 of those drafts. That cannot happen and shouldn't be excused either. Neither can ignoring positional needs, but apparently Mara and Tisch are all for poor LB play.

 

Yes... maybe it was time for a coaching change, but our gm has been below average and living off a entering dream situation when he was hired in 07 and catching lightning in a bottle twice.

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With Reese, he hasn't been able to find quality depth from the 5-7th or from undrafted free agents, either. In my opinion, that's far worse than only having 3 players on the team from 2009-2011. Cruz and Tye are about the only two I can think of. There's probably a handful more but you can't overcome injuries to starters without quality depth that you've drafted and developed (the developed part is on Coughlin, I don't care what anyone says). This is why we constantly have to rely on other teams' journeymen in free agency.

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It's not impossible that nobody is doing a good job. 19 wins in 3 seasons suggests there is a lot wrong

I agree, my point was that yes his drafting overall has been poor,but these last 2 years he brought in good picks. Meanwhile toms record didn't improve and honestly this division is so bad that by default we should have won it this year.

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With Reese, he hasn't been able to find quality depth from the 5-7th or from undrafted free agents, either. In my opinion, that's far worse than only having 3 players on the team from 2009-2011. Cruz and Tye are about the only two I can think of. There's probably a handful more but you can't overcome injuries to starters without quality depth that you've drafted and developed (the developed part is on Coughlin, I don't care what anyone says). This is why we constantly have to rely on other teams' journeymen in free agency.

I don't disagree with the depth issue. He needs to improve that area

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Guys, we had MAYBE three (3) legit NFL starting players on Defense - the two Corners and a club handed JPP. The rest were backups on any contending team....and once the injuries hit, we had backups playing for backups!

 

Offensively, our OL had a rookie LT, a RT who was signed to be a backup and a RG who played poorly, then got hurt...and once injuries hit, a bad OL got worse! A few games, we had Bobby Hart, Dallas Reynolds and John Jerry ALL playing! Along with that, we had one great receiver, a good/sometimes great QB and average RBs. Somehow, that collection of "talent" was a top 10 Offense in yards and points per game.

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COUGHLIN SCOUTS AND PICKS PLAYERS TOO.

Once the season is over and on tape for a very short period before the draft. He's not the one going to games to scout players. He's not the one looking at the tape during the week. That's on Reese and his staff.

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Reese also isn't responsible for DEVELOPING players. That's entirely on Coughlin. No one can say guys like Moore lacked the physical talent to play in the NFL, and at a high level. It was up to Coughlin to turn him into a professional and he failed miserably. I'd say the same for Randle, and several of the OLine and TE picks who amounted to nothing...and you could argue he hasn't been up to par handling Beckham's development either.

 

And yes, player development also includes strength and conditioning. It's not Reese's fault Beatty tore his pec lifting weights in pre-season training. It's not Reese's fault Cruz never saw the field this year, or that Mook tore his pec too.

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Once the season is over and on tape for a very short period before the draft. He's not the one going to games to scout players. He's not the one looking at the tape during the week. That's on Reese and his staff.

 

Coughlin was at every combine and pro day with the rest of Reese's team. He was very involved in making the picks. It wasn't Reese with the Boston College boner either.

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