Are the Giants going stay on top of the NFC East?

[Treehugger]

 

Difference is, those Giant teams had solid Defenses and could dial up a fierce pass rush. The current edition does not boast the same characteristics.

 

I don't have an issue with the D. Washington had one big play while our best corner was in the locker room.

[Gman329]

But they are dead last against the pass, which goes straight to the lack of pass rush. Spags has done a great job minimizing the damage but sooner or later, that will kill you.

[gmenroc]

Regarding the defense - the offseason MUST yield a pass rusher or two, a 3rd corner, and a safety to run along side Collins. A depth signing or draft pick devoted to the LB group would be huge, but not before these other spots.

 

Offensively, we'll be in the WR hunt to hedge against Cruz not returning and Randle, at this point, has proven he's not a #2. He's valuable as a #3 however, so I'd try to resign him...but he's far from the priority. Offensive line depth is a huge need. As for RB, I think they just need to rank the ones we have in house. Between Jennings, Williams, Darkwa, and the ex-Patriot...I think we have the guys...just need to rank them and ensure that we have a #1, a #2, etc...and then we need to play them that way. No longer should we be devoting playtime by series or anything like that. Let the best player play the whole game. Sure, 3rd downs and situational decisions can be made...but there should be a clear pecking order there that I don't believe exists currently.

[GA4M]

 

I don't have an issue with the D. Washington had one big play while our best corner was in the locker room.

The only good thing about that was I had Jackson as my flex player on draftkings, but other than that the offense fucked that game up every way the possibly could. I'm thinking will get our ass beat by the Jets too because of the line issues.

[Gman329]

Most teams, unless they have an AP, clear #1 type of RB, go with a committee approach. Fresher legs and making the defense adjust to a different back every few series is more effective than one guy who is only marginally better than the other.

[Blindgreed1]

The only good thing about that was I had Jackson as my flex player on draftkings, but other than that the offense fucked that game up every way the possibly could. I'm thinking will get our ass beat by the Jets too because of the line issues.

My "garbage team" beat the Jets.

[GA4M]

Most teams, unless they have an AP, clear #1 type of RB, go with a committee approach. Fresher legs and making the defense adjust to a different back every few series is more effective than one guy who is only marginally better than the other.

But in our case, it's not working at all. this is the worst running game I've seen from this team in many years.

[Gman329]

Think that has more to do with the OL than the RBs.

[Storm]

Most teams, unless they have an AP, clear #1 type of RB, go with a committee approach. Fresher legs and making the defense adjust to a different back every few series is more effective than one guy who is only marginally better than the other.

 

But it's ridiculous that we have a guy like Shane Vereen, who I will concede, is not an every down back, average 7.5 yards per carry and he never receives another touch, the whole game. I can see spelling a guy after several runs during the same drive but running and having some success (Jennings had some nice carries, too) and then sitting a guy for entire drives and sometimes more than one drive, is crazy.

[Tempest]

I don't understand how so many of you are confused by the Giants running game.

 

Start with facts

 

We don't have the one guy on the roster at the RB position to get the job done. Each RB has plays that are included in formations.

 

Shane Vereen actually played the most out of all the RB's against Washington.

[Storm]

Look, a Giants apologist.

 

Putting Andre Williams in the game, ever, is stupid and ineffective and it always has been. It's really OK. You can admit it.

 

No other team approaches their running back by committee like the Giants.

[Herc]

nobody is confused about how a rbbc works or the positive benefits that can come from it.

 

what's confusing is how anybody can't understand that mixing in a guy with a career 3.2 ypc and season 2.8 ypc into a rbbc that already has 3 other rbs in it might not yield positive results. i don't get how that's hard to understand.

[Iceman_NYG]

Simple - there is no creativity. This is like playing against the computer in the Rookie level of chess. It will do exactly as expected and then when the execution fails shit hits the ceiling. There is absolutely no creativity in trying to get unexpected players involved in the game. Keep feeding beckham the ball but then also design a play that might ONCE - ONCE fool the defense. Even when we try running the end around or some shit like that the defenses just sit back chewing gum waiting for us to finish embarrassing ourselves and then just move in to tackle when the runner has soiled himself. I have not seen this O have one play where the entire D was flummoxed.

[Tempest]

I don't apologize for the team, that honor belongs to management and ownership. I do try and understand the why of it instead of just yelling at the tv, I tried it and still do from time to time. No positive results to speak of and the dog is confused.

 

Andre Williams had all of two carries against Washington. Here is a clue: Not the reason why the Giants lost. Now I agree of all the RB's on the roster with the current state of the offensive line, he should not be the third guy in line to get the ball.

 

When Larry, Curly and Moe are your interior offensive line before the end of the first quarter, good things are not going to happen on offense.

 

This team is one dimensional, has been that way for years. Only time our opponents are confused are the rare occasions the Giants successfully run the ball.

[GA4M]

The good thing is there's only a few more games to go. let's heal up, do something about Coaching and give a go next year.

[Storm]

They were actually running the ball well, though. After Andre Williams, they completely abandoned it.

[Tempest]

They were actually running the ball well, though. After Andre Williams, they completely abandoned it.

 

Over three and half quarters happened after that and the run wasn't abandoned, it was ineffective. After Schwartz came out of the game and the second interception, the offense fell apart.

[Storm]

 

Over three and half quarters happened after that and the run wasn't abandoned, it was ineffective. After Schwartz came out of the game and the second interception, the offense fell apart.

 

 

Dude, did you even watch the game? Over 60% of the Giants running plays were called in the very first quarter, literally within the first 12 minutes of the game. They ran 13 times total. One of those was a lame, terribly timed, end-around to Dwayne Harris. Which means there were actually 12 runs to a running back. 8 within the first 12 minutes of the game, which bumps the number up to 67% of the called runs were in the first quarter.

 

Their average run was 2.5 yards (and the Dwayne Harris run hurts that number). Do you know what the Redskins' was? 2.8. Do you know how many times they ran the ball? 37.

 

You're 100% wrong here.

 

And again, the Giants running back by committee system is absolutely broken. Do you want to see how it's really supposed to work?

 

Alfred Morris- 23 carries, 78 yards

Matt Jones- 8 carries, 19 yards

Chris Thompson- 2 carries, 7 yards

 

Cousins had the rest

 

 

And with a shitty, hodge-podge line, why in the world would you rely on them to pass block 51 times? You still have to have some semblance of balance. Simply put, the Giants entered panic mode. And these kinds of decisions are on the coaching staff.

 

So again, good try. But the Giants ran 8 times throughout the 1st quarter, 4 times, to a running back, throughout the rest of the game. They had a 4.7 YPC average in the first quarter, when you factor out the yet to be explained Andre Williams touches (as in, why is he even receiving them? I agree with you, HIS runs ARE ineffective). It was still 3.5 YPC with Andre WIlliams' carries of 1 and -1.

 

The running game was abandoned, Jennings was still picking up chunks of 4 yards a pop in the second quarter when he got 2 touches. He lost 4 yards early in the 3rd quarter on busted play. After that one carry, they did not run again.

 

I'm not saying the running game is as effective as it could be, but they have yet to demonstrate, like you say, that it is necessary to, for all intents and purposes, completely abandon it from the middle of the second quarter on.

[Gman329]

Giants were behind by 10 points by early 2nd quarter and down 17 at halftime. They ran 13 times for 33 yards, a 2.5 average per carry. Teams that are behind multiple scores tend to run less and throw more. Redskins were ahead, so they could continue to run the ball, despite averaging 2.8 per carry. That is, as you are fond of telling us in your lectures, Football 101.

 

But there's little point in discussing/debating this or anything else Giant related with you at this point. You are tunnel visioned, incapable of seeing anything that isn't through the prism of Tom Coughlin and all the coaches suck. There isn't even a pretense of objectivity. No matter the personnel, game situations or anything else, you'll ignore any and all factors and find a way to attribute 100% of every bad result to coaching incompetence. The man could walk on water and you'd say that just proves he can't swim. In this way, you have lost your credibility.

 

And I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes. The clock fiascos were brutal. But given the personnel we've had playing major minutes and all the new, inexperienced players they've had to plug in on the fly, they've gotten a lot out of this roster. But some people need a scapegoat, a head on a platter, whenever things don't go like they want them to. In your next life, I hope you come back as a Browns fan.

 

Sure, I get frustrated during the games and scream at my TV but I try to keep a little objectivity and perspective. If you want to make the argument that every coach has a shelf life and sometimes you just need new energy, I can understand and respect that thinking. I don't agree that that's the case with TC at this point but I can see merit in the argument. But if you want to tell me that TC is an incompetent idiot, that the game has passed him by and he's now a horrible coach and an anchor dragging this great team down......I'm sorry, that's ridiculous.

[Storm]

Jiminy crickets, a ten point lead!!! In the second quarter?! Are you serious? That's what almost two whole drives that they have to maybe try to string together ya know, some plays, and convert you know, maybe some first downs! Maybe instead of passing three times and quickly going three and out they could ya know, maybe increase their chances of converting a first down by ya know, making it 3rd and short instead of 3rd and long. Seemingly makes sense, considering pass blocking is tougher with a makeshift line. Especially pass blocking for receivers to get further than ten yards down the field.

 

Again, you're wrong. Incorrect. They abandoned the run far too early when it wasn't even half as "ineffective" as you claim. Good day, sir.

[CrazedDogs]

And with a shitty, hodge-podge line, why in the world would you rely on them to pass block 51 times? You still have to have some semblance of balance. Simply put, the Giants entered panic mode. And these kinds of decisions are on the coaching staff.

 

 

Because you have it backwards.... the running game is very dependent on the offensive line, while pass protection is more about the QB than the offensive line. When the offensive line went to shambles after Schwartz went out, their best bet was to keep throwing.

[Gman329]

Jiminy crickets, a ten point lead!!! In the second quarter?! Are you serious? That's what almost two whole drives that they have to maybe try to string together ya know, some plays, and convert you know, maybe some first downs! Maybe instead of passing three times and quickly going three and out they could ya know, maybe increase their chances of converting a first down by ya know, making it 3rd and short instead of 3rd and long. Seemingly makes sense, considering pass blocking is tougher with a makeshift line. Especially pass blocking for receivers to get further than ten yards down the field.

 

Again, you're wrong. Incorrect. They abandoned the run far too early when it wasn't even half as "ineffective" as you claim. Good day, sir.

 

At this point, I find you amusing. Predictable and dead fucking wrong but amusing. And good day to you, as well.

[Tempest]

 

 

Dude, did you even watch the game? Over 60% of the Giants running plays were called in the very first quarter, literally within the first 12 minutes of the game. They ran 13 times total. One of those was a lame, terribly timed, end-around to Dwayne Harris. Which means there were actually 12 runs to a running back. 8 within the first 12 minutes of the game, which bumps the number up to 67% of the called runs were in the first quarter.

 

Their average run was 2.5 yards (and the Dwayne Harris run hurts that number). Do you know what the Redskins' was? 2.8. Do you know how many times they ran the ball? 37.

 

You're 100% wrong here.

 

And again, the Giants running back by committee system is absolutely broken. Do you want to see how it's really supposed to work?

 

Alfred Morris- 23 carries, 78 yards

Matt Jones- 8 carries, 19 yards

Chris Thompson- 2 carries, 7 yards

 

Cousins had the rest

 

 

And with a shitty, hodge-podge line, why in the world would you rely on them to pass block 51 times? You still have to have some semblance of balance. Simply put, the Giants entered panic mode. And these kinds of decisions are on the coaching staff.

 

So again, good try. But the Giants ran 8 times throughout the 1st quarter, 4 times, to a running back, throughout the rest of the game. They had a 4.7 YPC average in the first quarter, when you factor out the yet to be explained Andre Williams touches (as in, why is he even receiving them? I agree with you, HIS runs ARE ineffective). It was still 3.5 YPC with Andre WIlliams' carries of 1 and -1.

 

The running game was abandoned, Jennings was still picking up chunks of 4 yards a pop in the second quarter when he got 2 touches. He lost 4 yards early in the 3rd quarter on busted play. After that one carry, they did not run again.

 

I'm not saying the running game is as effective as it could be, but they have yet to demonstrate, like you say, that it is necessary to, for all intents and purposes, completely abandon it from the middle of the second quarter on.

 

Looks like you just agreed with me and don't ask me if I read your post.

 

Since you mentioned the RB committee and pointed out how the Redskins run it, I guess we can make a comparison. Redskins run more than the Giants, slightly more effectively. Giants don't run the ball very well or consistently and everyone would rather get the ball to Beckham this year. More balance would look a lot more like no offense and everyone screaming where is Beckham.

So do you want the Giants to run the ball more at the expense of possibly getting the ball to Beckham?

[Gman329]

 

Looks like you just agreed with me and don't ask me if I read your post.

 

Since you mentioned the RB committee and pointed out how the Redskins run it, I guess we can make a comparison. Redskins run more than the Giants, slightly more effectively. Giants don't run the ball very well or consistently and everyone would rather get the ball to Beckham this year. More balance would look a lot more like no offense and everyone screaming where is Beckham.

So do you want the Giants to run the ball more at the expense of possibly getting the ball to Beckham?

 

Who they targeted 19 times, I believe - the highest number of targets I've seen one player get this year.

[Mr. P]

I'd just like to see them pick a guy and stick with him. I don't even care if it's Williams, give someone the bulk of the carries.