Nas Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Great strength and conditioning progam we've got. Way to ease our guys back into it. No.. it's more like as a fucking professional athlete, you're supposed to keep yourself in shape and know the basics of warming up and how to work out properly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 OG is more of the need. I think Pugh goes to LT and they keep the plan of Flowers at RT I hope not.. Pugh is already experienced at the right side so why fuck that up... besides Flowers is more built for LT anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 No.. it's more like as a fucking professional athlete, you're supposed to keep yourself in shape and know the basics of warming up and how to work out properly.... See as much as people rail on the teams trainers, I still feel like this is very much true. Wasnt it Amani Toomer who did yoga or some shit in the offseason, every offseason. He was one of the toughest WRs I've ever seen play, Eli left him for dead on I don't know how many throws that he just shook off the hit and kept playing. You would think with stories like Clowny and that guy who went down for the Jags, if I was a player in the NFL I would be doing every last fucking thing imaginable to make sure I was limber for practice/gameday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK-Giantsfan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Flowers to LT immediately ...........and lets hope he learns fast ! ........( plus ...lets hire Jake Long today ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 See as much as people rail on the teams trainers, I still feel like this is very much true. Wasnt it Amani Toomer who did yoga or some shit in the offseason, every offseason. He was one of the toughest WRs I've ever seen play, Eli left him for dead on I don't know how many throws that he just shook off the hit and kept playing. You would think with stories like Clowny and that guy who went down for the Jags, if I was a player in the NFL I would be doing every last fucking thing imaginable to make sure I was limber for practice/gameday. Correct... I had the pleasure of speaking to Amani in the summer of 2002 during the Giants' training camp in Albany... My first remark to him was holy shit Amani you lost weight.. he smirked but told me that he had to change his conditioning program to adapt... as you get older your body changes etc... at the time I was too young to understand what he meant but to your point, he did what he needed to do as a professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Can you explain exactly what happens when you tear your pectoral muscle the way that Will Beatty reportedly did? When someone tears their pec muscle, what they tear typically is the attachment of the pec muscle onto the arm bone, called the humerus. The pec muscle is made of two parts, there's a part called the sternal head, which goes to the chest bone, there's a part called the clavicular head, which goes to the clavicle or collar bone. Those two muscle groups weave together and form a tendon that attaches to the arm bone, so when you tear your pec muscle, you often can tear the tendon off of the bone. I obviously haven't examined Mr. Beatty, but if he tore the tendon off the board, then that often requires surgery to repair the tendon back to the bone, because it won't fix itself. The process of healing takes many, many months, first let the tendon heal, then get the flexibility back in the arm, and then get some strength in the muscle back after it heals, and that process often does take 5-6 months as a result. So that recovery timeline is consistent for this type of injury? When people tear [the pec], obviously a professional athlete they want to get them back as fast as possible and he has the advantage of having trainers and dedicated therapists and top-notch surgeons who are going to get him back as fast as possible. But the process of healing takes a little time, you have to let the tendon that's repaired knit and physically heal to the bone before you can stretch it too much. Then during that process of healing you might need to do a little bit of rehab to get the flexibility and strength back in the arm. That's why it's a 5 to 6 month recovery, not just a few months. He's as good as gone for the season... and from the roster. coming back in November isn't going to help the team... he will not be in football shape anyway... I don't know but I'm livid... I think the Giants should also investigate the work out posture of anyone they sign... this is embarrassing on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah, we drafted Flowers in the top 10 - I have to believe that puts him in at LT. Flowers-Jones-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh If Flowers is not ready, you slide Pugh to the LT and start Newhouse at RT. I agree with most comments thus far... 1. that it's a blessing in disguise and will allow us to get out from under Beatty's salary. With Prince, JPP, and Eli on the FA horizon - this could allow us to keep all 3. 2. that Beatty is too streaky to be called dominant. 3. that La'el Collins would have been an instant starter here where he'll have to fight for position in Dallas 4. that we still have to bring in a free agent OT...but that likely won't happen until after the June 1st cuts. 5. that offseason conditioning should be the same as season conditioning and camp conditioning and draft conditioning and March 23rd conditioning...it's a 24/365 deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think that Coughlin should give Beatty the Nicks/JPP treatment and just rush Beatty out there and ruin his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think that Coughlin should give Beatty the Nicks/JPP treatment and just rush Beatty out there and ruin his career. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think it is imperative that we look into Long. And I have no doubt the Giants have considered it if they haven't already contacted his agent. The facts: Jake Long was the number one overall draft pick in 2008. 4 time pro-bowler, and after two serious injuries, still is listed as 59th out of the top 100 players in the NFL. He has the size and length for a LT (6'7", 322) and has the long arms and makeup that eludes the talented but smaller Pugh. And he has 7 years of NFL experience at LT. The problem(s): He wants money like a number one overall pick. He also wants it to be for more than 1-year (probably hunting for 3). It's his last hurrah to fill his personal coffers. And after two torn ACLs in the past two years, no team wants to layout that kind of big money for a 30-year old with a serious injury history. I think the Giants have to bite the bullet on this one. Sign him. Make the contract incentive driven and get him in the lineup as soon as possible. Since no team has tried to sign him, he is probably willing to be a little more flexible in negotiations. But on the other hand, he probably also has been waiting for just this kind of situation where a left tackle goes down before the season begins and some team will be desperate. I don't think we have a choice if we want to salvage this season. Bite the bullet and make Jake Long our LT for the next 2 years (rotating him with Beatty once he heals to keep both in better health) and hope like hell he holds up...at least until Beatty is back to 100 percent. Both Long and Beatty just turned 30 years old and probably good for 2 - 3 years before their big fall off. Long is actually a couple months younger than Beatty, but both are entering the twilight of their careers. On an interesting side note, Fox Sports pre-game show panel with Terry Bradshaw, Howie Long, Michael Strahan, and Jimmy Johnson would be more interesting...it would tip the scales as both Strahan and Howie would now show partiality towards the Giants as Strahan always is, and now Howie's kid would also be a Giant. Johnson can continue to pull for his Cowboys and Bradshaw his Steelers, but there'd be two Giants fans. It could make for some fun bickering on the panel. Reese - sign him you imgrate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think we should wait until June 1st cuts to see what shakes out there before we sign anyone, but I agree, we should definitely make it a priority to sign someoene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Anyone knows what the financials are for Beatty... ? nvm.. here it is: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/william-beatty/ Year Base Salary Signing Bonus Workout Bonus Cap Hit Dead Cap 2013 $1,000,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $3,550,000 $19,050,000 2014 $4,850,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $7,400,000 $15,550,000 2015 $5,500,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $8,050,000 $7,500,000 2016 $6,625,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $9,175,000 $5,000,000 2017 $6,775,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $9,325,000 $2,500,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah...we put a lot of money out for Beatty and it was a long term contract that favored him far more than the Giants. The front office also knew Beatty's value on the open market (even if fans don't) and couldn't let him become a free agent. NFL tackles who can handle the job are the cornerstone of a good line and a successful QB. The Giants had few choices and none of them good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah, we drafted Flowers in the top 10 - I have to believe that puts him in at LT. Flowers-Jones-Richburg-Schwartz-Pugh If Flowers is not ready, you slide Pugh to the LT and start Newhouse at RT. I agree with most comments thus far... 1. that it's a blessing in disguise and will allow us to get out from under Beatty's salary. With Prince, JPP, and Eli on the FA horizon - this could allow us to keep all 3. 2. that Beatty is too streaky to be called dominant. 3. that La'el Collins would have been an instant starter here where he'll have to fight for position in Dallas 4. that we still have to bring in a free agent OT...but that likely won't happen until after the June 1st cuts. 5. that offseason conditioning should be the same as season conditioning and camp conditioning and draft conditioning and March 23rd conditioning...it's a 24/365 deal The problem though, is no team in their right mind cuts a starting Left Tackle...they don't even cut LTs that are not good enough to start, but are being groomed for LT in a year or two. It's the hardest position (beside QB) to fill in the NFL. We'll be cutting a couple of tackles after camp and no one (except the most desperate teams) will take them. If a team has a tackle that is NFL ready - they keep them no matter what. The only reason Long is even available is because of his injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 And one more thing: The Giants look like freakin geniuses for using their 1st round pick on a tackle. Imagine the chagrin and the sheer panic if we had chosen Trae Waynes, or Gurly, or Shelton instead of a pure tackle that everyone said we took too early. There's a reason Flowers and Peat were off the board in the first 13 picks of the draft and why La'el Collins was so sought after when the draft was over. They were the only "pure" tackles (and future franchise left tackles) in the draft. There were others (Humphries, Ogbuehi, Fisher, Clemings, etc.) but they are long term projects that require they add 30 lbs of muscle and 2 years experience before being thrown into the fire and likely could end up as right tackles or even guards. So, so happy we took Flowers. I preferred Peat over Flowers at the time, but am very happy with Flowers. Those two were the only true career top-shelf franchise left tackles available....and thank heavens, we got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 the pick looks great now. just gotta hope he's a gem long hasn't produced in a long time. im ok with taking a shot on him as a backup but i won't expect the old jake long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The problem though, is no team in their right mind cuts a starting Left Tackle...they don't even cut LTs that are not good enough to start, but are being groomed for LT in a year or two. It's the hardest position (beside QB) to fill in the NFL. We'll be cutting a couple of tackles after camp and no one (except the most desperate teams) will take them. If a team has a tackle that is NFL ready - they keep them no matter what. The only reason Long is even available is because of his injuries. Unless a team who just drafted an OT cuts a veteran in a salary cap move who we then bring in on a one year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Anyone knows what the financials are for Beatty... ? nvm.. here it is: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/william-beatty/ Year Base Salary Signing Bonus Workout Bonus Cap Hit Dead Cap 2013 $1,000,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $3,550,000 $19,050,000 2014 $4,850,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $7,400,000 $15,550,000 2015 $5,500,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $8,050,000 $7,500,000 2016 $6,625,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $9,175,000 $5,000,000 2017 $6,775,000 $2,500,000 $50,000 $9,325,000 $2,500,000 Cutting him now: We take the full 7.5 million cap hit this year from his signing bonus. We save 5.5 million base salary this year and base salaries in 2016 and 2017. Netting these two, we'd lose a player AND 2 million in cap money this year. This alone would keep it from happening Cutting him June 1st: We take 2.5 million cap hit from his signing bonus. We save 5.5 million in cap money this year. We are + 3 million in cap space in 2015 as a result. In 2016, the other 5 million of salary cap comes due. Instead of saving his full base salary next year as we would if we cut him now, we'd only save 1.125 million next year. In 2017, we'd save his full base salary. ***So, if he's getting cut, it certainly would not be until after June 1st. Then again, with the ability to roll cap space over from one year to the next, this might be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I hope not.. Pugh is already experienced at the right side so why fuck that up... besides Flowers is more built for LT anyway... I think Flowers is more built for RT. The RT plays the stronside which is against the more powerful DE. Pugh played 4 years at LT for Syracuse and power has given him problems. He would fit much better against the weakside DE whose the speed rusher. Flowers is mean and nasty and would fit better on the right side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think Flowers is more built for RT. The RT plays the stronside which is against the more powerful DE. Pugh played 4 years at LT for Syracuse and power has given him problems. He would fit much better against the weakside DE whose the speed rusher. Flowers is mean and nasty and would fit better on the right side Yeah everyone clamoring for Pugh at guard is in for a rude awakening. He's not big enough to anchor against bull rushers and unless he really bulks up in the offseason, they're going to eat him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Is the solution as easy as plugging in Newhouse? Sure, he's a backup at this point, but so too would pretty much anyone else we'd throw into the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 13m13 minutes ago The Giants say the surgery on LT Will Beatty's torn pectoral muscle yesterday was "successful". Estimated recovery time still 5-6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Pugh at left tackle (like some of you guys wanted at the beginning of last year, remember?); Flowers at RT. That puts vet with youth on both sides of the line--Schwartz with Flowers, Pugh with whomever gets the LG spot. No point in freaking out--we did ok when Diehl replaced Pettigout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedinBlue Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think Flowers is more built for RT. The RT plays the stronside which is against the more powerful DE. Pugh played 4 years at LT for Syracuse and power has given him problems. He would fit much better against the weakside DE whose the speed rusher. Flowers is mean and nasty and would fit better on the right side Agreed. Flowers will push open holes for the run game. The left tackle is extremely important for protecting the QB if the QB is right handed like Eli. It makes the QB's left side his "blind side" and he has to be able to trust the LT to keep an opposing player away from him while he sets to throw. Pugh did a stellar job at Syracuse keeping DE's off Nassib's blind side. Pugh is much better with his feet than Flowers and is better suited for keeping the QB clean rather than shoving open holes for the RB as is Flowers. I suspect it is Pugh who will be expected to fill the void on the left as he's good at pass protection. Marshall Newhouse has NFL experience as LT, but at least 2 teams cut him for reasons unbeknownst to me. But teams don't cut LT's unless they are 100% sure he can't handle the job. At best, Newhouse spells the tackle position now and then and is an emergency backup. We're looking at a starting lineup (IMHO) as: PUGH - ?? - RICHBURG - SCHWARTZ - FLOWERS I suspect there will be a battle between JONES, HART, MOSLEY, HERMAN, JERRY to take the final guard position. I suspect Jones or Jerry to win the starting position as they groom Hart. But maybe Mosley and Herman have gotten themselves in tip top shape and are ready to contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think Flowers is more built for RT. The RT plays the stronside which is against the more powerful DE. Pugh played 4 years at LT for Syracuse and power has given him problems. He would fit much better against the weakside DE whose the speed rusher. Flowers is mean and nasty and would fit better on the right side I initially thought that as well watching him. But I think he has LT feet. I think he can play both, and he would perhaps be a better fit at RT if you didn't also have a strong RT, but the top priority on the line is the LT spot, protecting the blindside. I think Flowers can do that but I have serious reservations about having that responsibility in his first year. Yeah everyone clamoring for Pugh at guard is in for a rude awakening. He's not big enough to anchor against bull rushers and unless he really bulks up in the offseason, they're going to eat him alive. I feel that way about people clamoring for him at LT. I think he has a great work ethic, he wants to be a great player, but I think he has physical disadvantages that he has to overcome with his desire (shorter arms). In the top level of football, against the best players, those disadvantages are exposed, and I think that's where he ran into trouble at RT. I think he needs to play wherever the coaches determine they are getting the most out of him. He might be good at LG, or maybe he works out at LT. I have little doubt he will earn a spot starting somewhere on this line. But I trust if he finds himself at LG, then the coaches know he can play that at a high level. We have some strong candidates for the interior offensive linemen spots. So if he beats them out and is at Guard, I have a lot of confidence in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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