Giants Last place in the Division

[Tempest]

 

Maybe you're the only one... you don't see how a Lebowski slated to make millions go thru this bullshit and not feel for the guy? Who's to say he's not going to suffer some kind of a career ending injury?

 

I'm still scratching my had at how no team in the NFL was willing to throw a 7th round pick at the guy...

 

I think its the potential controversy that teams are trying to avoid. I think its absolutely ridiculous that he is being treated as a toxic player.

[Nas]

 

I think its the potential controversy that teams are trying to avoid. I think its absolutely ridiculous that he is being treated as a toxic player.

 

Which is why I'm left scratching my head..

[Allstarjim]

 

It's no where near the same situation though, the NFL isnt banning him from playing the game.... HE IS.

 

Collins could easily be on a team once this is all resolved and the team could easily resign him to a contract the year after his rookie year. UDFA are only a year long guaranteed.

 

The way I look at it he could of handled it one of two ways; as a man or as a kid.

 

If he came out the day before the draft and said "I know this is a horrible situation for everyone involved and I respect the decision of NFL teams during the draft. I'm going to continue to work hard to achieve my dream and now I'll be rewarded when a team signs me"

 

Instead he bitched and moaned about losing money and is threatening to sit out for a year and he wont play for a team unless he gets first round money.

 

He if want's to piss away his opportunity to play in the NFL he can go for it, I wont feel bad for him at all.

 

Actually this is not true at all. Read this article about the CBA and UDFA contracts. Sure, the expectation is that Collins will play for three years and earn at least $1.575 million and then earn a tender which will give him a 4th year salary in the $3 million range. However, the big difference is guaranteed money. First round picks are going to get the equivalent of La'el Collins entire 3 year salary plus a 4th year at 1st round tender money fully guaranteed and then some.

 

Teddy Bridgewater was the last pick of the first round last year and got about $5.5 million fully guaranteed, with $3.3 million in a signing bonus right away. Collins might get around $15k guaranteed if he's lucky, because that will be the signing bonus. So Collins lost millions of dollars here in income he will NEVER recover. If things fall the right way, he'll still be a very rich man and end up a multi-millionaire. But guess what, our guy Ereck Flowers will have the kind of money Collins should've gotten right away as soon as the ink dries on his signature. And Collins will have to maintain his position on a roster for 3 years, get a 4th year at tender pay, and hope he's not out of the NFL because of say spinal stenosis (David Wilson?) or multiple knee surgeries (Kenny Phillips?), or have an unfortunate off-field accident impact his ability to play (Chad Jones?). If something happens to his body in the near term that prevents him from playing, he will likely never earn in his entire life the amount of money that would've been his SIGNING BONUS had he been picked in the first round like he was projected.

 

He is not a crybaby. He's not being immature. This is a devastatingly awful set of circumstances he finds himself in the middle of and his anger is completely justified. Here is the article I was referencing:

 

http://overthecap.com/what-can-lael-collins-earn-as-an-undrafted-free-agent/

 

 

What Can La’El Collins Earn as an Undrafted Free Agent

Posted on May 3, 2015 by Jason Fitzgerald

With the draft over, we hit the fast and furious UDFA signing period, which is where La’El Collins now sits. So let’s take a quick look at the rules regarding the signings, specifically in regards to Collins.

Every undrafted rookie is locked into signing a three year contract. The three year contract will contain the minimum Paragraph 5 salary in each year, which will equal payouts of $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016, and $615,000 in 2017. These are the same numbers as rookies drafted after the 3rd round and many of the players drafted in the third round, so it is not a major loss for Collins of any player who was not projected to be a 2nd round pick.

The UDFA’s are very limited in terms of signing bonus money. I don’t have the final number in front of me but IIRC each team can spend, in total, about $88,000 on all their undrafted rookies. That usually means a large number of players receiving signing bonuses that will not exceed $8,000. So that is a limiting factor for a player who is not drafted. The smallest signing bonus a 7th round pick will receive likely to be about $52,000. So that is a pretty big loss considering for many players the bonus is the only salary they will ever receive.

At the end of the three year contract, every UDFA will be a restricted free agent while a drafted rookie will have a fourth contract year. Teams select from one of three RFA salaries for the UDFA’s. The smallest tender for that year will be $1.785 million. Every drafted rookie (except punters and kickers) is also eligible to see their contracted salary rise to the smallest tender level based on playing time. So if Collins does not have a great career but is ok he will basically trail every drafted rookie that is ok by the signing bonus. However if he excels and earns the 2nd or 1st level tender he will earn at least $2.73 or $3.88 million in the final year. No drafted rookie can do that, so that would allow him to move his overall salary take back into the 2nd round level of the draft.

Every UDFA is extension eligible after just two seasons, so a very good player can get extended much earlier than the draft pick who must play three years. If I was Collins agent and that was a goal of mine I would strongly consider signing with a team like the Bengals, 49ers, Packers, or Patriots among others. These are the teams that typically like to extend talent early if possible and you may get that quicker extension from them if you do play like a first rounder. Similarly teams like the Texans and Giants have already proven they will avoid the RFA process for great talent like Arian Foster or Victor Cruz. Those are the kind of teams you may get that faster value from.

Now there is nothing in the process that prevents a team from guaranteeing large amounts of salary to UDFA. This is how many teams lure a UDFA while complying with the signing bonus rules. It is not uncommon to see a UDFA receive a salary guarantee equal to a Practice Squad salary (slightly over $100,000) and in some cases double that. For Collins that presents an opportunity to attempt to receive a three year guarantee of $1,575,000. That guarantee would be equivalent to a late 2nd rounders guarantee through his signing bonus and salary guarantee.

I doubt a team would be willing to make that investment now, but if Collins waits until the summer to sign they might if his name is cleared. In theory that could also give him time to see how teams depth charts are beginning to shape up and where he will get the most opportunity to play. This is also important because if e starts he would likely be a leader in Performance Based Pay which is based on playing time relative to your cap charge. Last year the league leader received nearly $375,000 in PBP. He would certainly earn more than highly drafted players further shrinking the gap.

So the avenues are there for Collins or any UDFA to make up for losses by not being drafted if they carefully select the team and are quality NFL players. UDFAs are never given the opportunity of a draft pick nor do they usually get the financial security, but they will be rewarded if they prove the NFL scouts wrong for pushing them out of the draft.

 

[Allstarjim]

Basically, he has to sign a 3 year deal at UDFA level pay. A team that signs him isn't going to cut him after 1 year out of the goodness of their hearts so he can get a rich deal that is commensurate with his first round talent. He's going to likely need to play that crap deal out and THEN make his money on the second deal, after he's had 4 years of NFL wear & tear.

 

This is a fluid situation so we will see... maybe a team will be really nice to him and give him an extension after the first year provided his body holds up and he performs. I think that is wishful thinking, though.

[Treehugger]

Can't he go back to school for a year then enter the 2016 draft?

[Tempest]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap3000000490865/article/2015-nfl-draft-wrapup-buccaneers-browns-both-trying-to-build

The most extraordinary case was that of Collins, who fell entirely out of the draft after it emerged that police want to question him about the shooting death of a woman he knew. Police have made it apparent Collins is not a suspect, but teams obviously want to be sure he is entirely cleared of involvement before getting too close to the offensive lineman, who almost certainly would have been chosen in the top 20 otherwise. Most striking is that even in the sixth or seventh rounds, no team took a chance on picking him up to control his rights.

Collins' agent had tried, unsuccessfully, to pull him from the draft entirely, and then said he would not sign if chosen in the late rounds. His only option now, it seems, is to wait for police to clear him; if that happens, he can then try to sign as an undrafted free agent. The end result is that Collins lost millions of dollars because his name was merely linked to a crime. But teams might have gained some brief credibility when they insist they take character seriously. New York Giants vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross, whose team badly needed help on the offensive line, seemed to capture the mindset regarding Collins around the league.

"We thought about La'el the whole draft, because he is sitting up there," Ross said. "But we were going to pass on that."

[Bigblue25]

Can't he go back to school for a year then enter the 2016 draft?

Nope. Once you hire an agent your NCAA eligibility is done

[Storm]

And Blue, the argument isn't that these kids get paid too much to play a game, that is irrelevant. Of course they do, everyone knows that. You don't have to feel bad for the guy because he isn't making AS MUCH money as he should be. But it's certainly an unfortunate set of circumstances for a kid who has put in a lot of hard work and dedication to be better than 99% of the other offensive lineman to be drafted in the first round and then have the rug pulled out from under him by the horrible timing of a horrible crime he likely didn't have anything to do with. I can see why teams stayed away but absolutely I feel for the guy. Even if he would have made more in one year than I will in 30 years of work...

[gmenroc]

It's a shame. If I'm the Giants, I'd definitely be taking a flier on him now. If we lost out on the unrestricted free agent dollars, it'd be a super low risk for what you could be getting.

[CrazedDogs]

a player of that talent, with no apparent involvement in the crime, not drafted?...I call bullshit... I bet the league knows more than the general public and warned everybody off him.

[Allstarjim]

He's already met with Rex Ryan and has a meeting planned with the Dolphins, I believe today. At least one other online source I read cited the Giants as having interest, and the Cowboys are also interested.

[BleedinBlue]

He's already met with Rex Ryan and has a meeting planned with the Dolphins, I believe today. At least one other online source I read cited the Giants as having interest, and the Cowboys are also interested.

More than half the teams in the NFL have contacted his agent including the Giants.

 

It comes down to this:

 

1) he can pick any team he wants

2) he gets the exact same pay regardless of which team he goes to

3) most likely, he'll choose a team with the best opportunity of starting

4) he most likely won't pick a team with the coldest climate or far away from his home in Baton Rouge

 

The Giants don't really have room for him in my opinion. Are they going to bench Pugh or Schwertz so he can play guard. Is he going to beat out Beatty or Flowers at one of the tackle positions? Would he be better than backup center Brett Jones (6-2 315 pounds) and backup OG/OT Bobby Hart(6-4, 329 pounds) both who are bigger (weight wise) and stronger) for the guard role (La'el Collins is 6-4 304 pounds).

 

I just don't see Collins picking the Giants. It's possible I suppose, but I certainly wouldn't expect him to choose the Giants as the best opportunity for him.

[Tempest]

a player of that talent, with no apparent involvement in the crime, not drafted?...I call bullshit... I bet the league knows more than the general public and warned everybody off him.

 

Its not bullshit, teams are very concerned with the controversy surrounding players, in this case it was the hint of it. Nobody wants the problem on their roster, unless your Dallas.

[CrazedDogs]

 

Its not bullshit, teams are very concerned with the controversy surrounding players, in this case it was the hint of it. Nobody wants the problem on their roster, unless your Dallas.

 

Dallas, Cincinnati, San Francisco, Philadelphia, New York Jets.... just off the top of my head.... have all welcomed those with extreme character concerns and even some known felons into the fold.

 

But not Collins? I don't get it.

[Tempest]

 

Dallas, Cincinnati, San Francisco, Philadelphia, New York Jets.... just off the top of my head.... have all welcomed those with extreme character concerns and even some known felons into the fold.

 

But not Collins? I don't get it.

 

Could you imagine the press conference they'd deal with if he was drafted?

 

"Yeah we knew about the dead pregnant ex-girlfriend, possibility of the child being his, but felt based on Collins being in Chicago (could not have physically killed her) at the time and not considering the possibility of his involvement or the police wanting to question him...was a player we couldn't pass up in the draft."

 

Now you draft him and the police question him and turns into a person of interest or worse? Yeah they avoided all of that and Collins went from the first round to undrafted and having to spend few years repairing the damage he didn't create.

[CrazedDogs]

 

Could you imagine the press conference they'd deal with if he was drafted?

 

"Yeah we knew about the dead pregnant ex-girlfriend, possibility of the child being his, but felt based on Collins being in Chicago (could not have physically killed her) at the time and not considering the possibility of his involvement or the police wanting to question him...was a player we couldn't pass up in the draft."

 

Now you draft him and the police question him and turns into a person of interest or worse? Yeah they avoided all of that and Collins went from the first round to undrafted and having to spend few years repairing the damage he didn't create.

 

I understand, and maybe we're seeing something new for the league, but this kind of restraint and caution isn't exactly keeping with league tradition.

[Tempest]

 

I understand, and maybe we're seeing something new for the league, but this kind of restraint and caution isn't exactly keeping with league tradition.

 

Yeah Goodall is not fucking around

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suspensions_in_the_National_Football_League

[Storm]

More than half the teams in the NFL have contacted his agent including the Giants.

 

It comes down to this:

 

1) he can pick any team he wants

2) he gets the exact same pay regardless of which team he goes to

3) most likely, he'll choose a team with the best opportunity of starting

4) he most likely won't pick a team with the coldest climate or far away from his home in Baton Rouge

 

The Giants don't really have room for him in my opinion. Are they going to bench Pugh or Schwertz so he can play guard. Is he going to beat out Beatty or Flowers at one of the tackle positions? Would he be better than backup center Brett Jones (6-2 315 pounds) and backup OG/OT Bobby Hart(6-4, 329 pounds) both who are bigger (weight wise) and stronger) for the guard role (La'el Collins is 6-4 304 pounds).

 

I just don't see Collins picking the Giants. It's possible I suppose, but I certainly wouldn't expect him to choose the Giants as the best opportunity for him.

 

I wouldn't count on Schwartz even contributing until he proves he can actually get on the field. I wouldn't hamstring the team because of Geoff Schwartz.

[Bigblue25]

 

I understand, and maybe we're seeing something new for the league, but this kind of restraint and caution isn't exactly keeping with league tradition.

 

I don't know Seahawks drafted this guy in round two.

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/witnesses-describe-ugly-hotel-incident-involving-seahawks-draft-pick/

[CrazedDogs]

Stay classy, Seattle.

[BleedinBlue]

I wouldn't count on Schwartz even contributing until he proves he can actually get on the field. I wouldn't hamstring the team because of Geoff Schwartz.

That's a really good point. We can certainly make room for Collins. Schwartz is 28 though, and if he is healthy he should be very good at the position as athletes tend to peak in ability between 28 and 29, with a fairly quick drop off after 30.

 

Still Schwartz would make a great backup and insurance as the "kiddie corps" learn to become a single cohesive unit. Better to have guys like NFL hardened Schwartz coming in to spell the kids, rather than another kid who really isn't ever going to pan out.