Storm Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't know Driz, not that the DL is a stat-driven position, but show us sacks, tackles, tackles for loss.... some of these guys have had one season on par, but none of those guys but Watt really stack up against JPP over a span of seasons. Well, JPP had 2 throwaway seasons and a rookie season out of 5, so let's not pretend he has had a consistent career, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 He's absolutely nowhere near top 5 in the league. He's not even top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I wonder how much of that was on JPP, and how much of that was Fewell being perhaps the worst in-game coordinator in the NFL. But to your point, even when you collapse inside you are still responsible for your initial positioning, and the QB does read the DE.. Herzlich and Kennard - the best two run-defending linebackers on the team - were sitting on the bench during that time. I really am excited to see what JPP does with a creative, aggressive coordinator. My guess is that for starters, they won't be redlining him all game so he's fucking useless in the 4th quarter. 2nd guess is they won't stick him against all-pro tackles all game, and instead, line him up on mismatches. Regardless of their 2015 record, not having to watch Fewell's defense get embarrassed will be a gift. Here's what I hope Spags doesn't do: put JPP at defensive tackle for the "Four Aces" package. Fewell did that a ton his sophomore year and he literally never made a single play from the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Well, JPP had 2 throwaway seasons and a rookie season out of 5, so let's not pretend he has had a consistent career, either. True, but you can point at injuries for those throwaway seasons. And all defensive linemen, even the great ones, have seasons like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 True, but you can point at injuries for those throwaway seasons. And all defensive linemen, even the great ones, have seasons like that. At the end of the day, injuries are just an excuse for not producing. If he was injured (and not productive) before, what makes someone think that'll change with a new big contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 He had a fantastic 2011. He's definitely a better player than most. But he's also had a back injury--which is not something to dismiss when talking about a lineman--because that's going to flare up again. And so far, it's starting to look like 2011 was the exception, not the rule. Admittedly, that's a pretty high standard to hold anyone to. He also makes some dumb decisions on the field--it looks like he gets duped pretty easily into going inside. I don't know how well that can be coached out of him. The bottom line is without him, our DEs are Wynn, Moore, and Ayers. Our DTs are Hankins, Bromley, Kuhn, and Jenkins. And we have no one at LB (let alone a squad) good enough to compensate for only one very good DL on the team. The defense hasn't been designed for that for well over a decade. His value to us is probably much higher than to some other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 We talk about JPP stuffing the run but he couldn't stop the read option or a sweep to his side to save his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 We talk about JPP stuffing the run but he couldn't stop the read option or a sweep to his side to save his life. To be fair a lot of that responsibility falls on the OLB and the CB as well. But his nasty habit of collapsing inside is almost as awful as Osi running himself out of plays by going the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxRik Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 At the end of the day, injuries are just an excuse for not producing. If he was injured (and not productive) before, what makes someone think that'll change with a new big contract? Mo' money = better drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 We talk about JPP stuffing the run but he couldn't stop the read option or a sweep to his side to save his life. He makes some bad reads, but I have absolutely seen him blow up sweeps and read options (especially sweeps). If he weren't making plays when the ball is in his area, he couldn't rack up that number of tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 He makes some bad reads, but I have absolutely seen him blow up sweeps and read options (especially sweeps). If he weren't making plays when the ball is in his area, he couldn't rack up that number of tackles. Agreed and the argument isn't really whether he's great or he sucks... I think most of us agree he's great but he can be even better. And from a contract standpoint, I think the Giants would to get a solid ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 He hasnt been great since 2011. If someone was stupid enough to give us 2 1st rounders for him, id drive him to that team. It would be a very awkward drive if he reads this first mind you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizan Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yea nobody is giving two 1st for JPP but JPP is a top ten DE. For one, There aren't many DEs that play as many defensive snaps as he does. Keeping him fresher could go a long way in making him a more consistent pass rusher. Besides getting burned by the zone read he's probably the best 4-3 DE against the run. He could also benefit from better LBers behind him as well as a better DC. His stock is going to go up with Spags as DC. His price will be higher at the end of next season so why prolong the inevitable. Hopefully we can get him signed for about 11 a year. I think that's fair for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yea nobody is giving two 1st for JPP but JPP is a top ten DE. For one, There aren't many DEs that play as many defensive snaps as he does. Keeping him fresher could go a long way in making him a more consistent pass rusher. Besides getting burned by the zone read he's probably the best 4-3 DE against the run. He could also benefit from better LBers behind him as well as a better DC. His stock is going to go up with Spags as DC. His price will be higher at the end of next season so why prolong the inevitable. Hopefully we can get him signed for about 11 a year. I think that's fair for both sides. Right on... even 12 a season would be great at this point... either way I think we keep him regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I read something yesterday saying that he's looking for a Robert Quinn type deal which was around $14m/year. He needs to back off of that. No way should we financially cripple the team just to satisfy him. Also... Patricia Traina and a couple other sources reported that the Giants have already stated that he'll be franchised if they can't reach an agreement by March 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 That's about what its going to take.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 when he does what robert quinn did in 2013 he can have robert quinn money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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