"99.9% chance" coughlin returns

[Herc]

Assuming the source stuff is true it's kind of discouraging how wishy washy they are

[Sephiroth]

Here's another great one. The New York Giants aren't judging Tom Coughlin on his win-loss record.

 

Because, you know, why judge a coach by his success? I was especially moved by this:

 

 

 

The Giants' decision-making process on these matters contains a level of nuance that doesn't jive with today's knee-jerk sports-fan sensibility. Most people see a coach consistently missing the playoffs, or a GM consistently missing on important draft picks, and decide the answer is change for change's sake. Fans (and quite a few team owners) view coaches and GMs as disposable or replaceable. They seem to believe that the key to success is shuffling new people into those positions until one of them wins a Super Bowl.

Not so the Giants, who will arrive at their offseason two weeks from now determined to find solutions but not prejudiced toward any one particular path. Before deciding to part ways with a head coach who's ingrained in the franchise's history at a celebratory level, the Giants will ask whether such a move is likely to solve their problems. The bet here, as I've said, is that they'll decide it won't and will instead involve Coughlin in the search for solutions.

 

...and its here that we have the quintessential loser's mentality. "Well, we have a team here (Coughlin and Reese) who have been average at best, but what if someone else is worse? No, lets stick with the guys we know suck." This is the same mentality that keeps women with abusive husbands. Pathetic.

[Herc]

that's cool. the barometer for the old man was how packed and how important the last home game of the season was. i've got tickets and i'm not going and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

[Sephiroth]

that's cool. the barometer for the old man was how packed and how important the last home game of the season was. i've got tickets and i'm not going and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hope Mara remembers what it felt like to hear raucous cheers each time the 49ers and Cowboys scored in Giants stadium.

[GorillaNJ]

The next Head Coach will be Macadoo... he needs another year as OC though.

[gmenroc]

The next Head Coach will be Macadoo... he needs another year as OC though.

 

I have thought this as well, but it seems awfully presumptuous to say given his limited coordinator experience.

[JMFP]

Guaranteed this is what we get:

 

1. Fewell is gone. Because, you know, Strength and Conditioning and Special Teams have historically been awesome under Coughlin, and that'll fix everything.

 

2. Reese stays. Odell Beckham totally makes up for the 2008-2011 drafts... because one great pick is the same as 28 shitty ones.

 

3. We go 8-8 next year. Progress!

 

Agree Fewell needs to go.

 

I closed my book of judgment on Fewell after the Dallas loss.

 

3rd time in 5 years (2011, 2013, 2014) this guy's defense doesn't improve until the season is in jeopardy, and twice (2013, 2014) the change in philosophy/roster came too late to save the season. It will also be the 3rd time in 5 years that the Giants defense finishes near the cellar statistically. And this late season cupcake schedule is meaningless to me.....22 sacks in 3 games against shitty offenses lines in games that mean nothing.....whoop dee fucking doo.

 

I will say this....Fewell has been fucked over by a combination of poor roster decisions and injuries, and Reese and the strength/conditioning staff should be under the microscope regarding that aspect of the team.

 

But the Game 1 loss v. Detroit is typical Fewell Defense.....he had a fresh roster and they got rolled.

[Bigblue25]

Here's another great one. The New York Giants aren't judging Tom Coughlin on his win-loss record.

 

Because, you know, why judge a coach by his success? I was especially moved by this:

 

 

...and its here that we have the quintessential loser's mentality. "Well, we have a team here (Coughlin and Reese) who have been average at best, but what if someone else is worse? No, lets stick with the guys we know suck." This is the same mentality that keeps women with abusive husbands. Pathetic.

Yeah, the "they might not find a better option"theory pisses me off the most

[Nas]

The next Head Coach will be Macadoo... he needs another year as OC though.

 

Nothing against McAdoo but what has he done to earn the job? I like the guy but I'm afraid he may end up like Spags.. great at DC but bombed at HC. Let's just keep Coughlin where he's at... twist his arm to fire deadbeats like we've done before, and hire one slid DC (Spags please) and one solid strength and conditioning coach) and address personnel in a methodical way.. I think the personnel we acquired this past offseason were great... draft too.. it's just the injuries that ate us up.

[Tempest]

Yeah, the "they might not find a better option"theory pisses me off the most

 

Is there another head coach out there with a better resume than Tom Coughlin that is available? How about equal?

[Tempest]

The next Head Coach will be Macadoo... he needs another year as OC though.

 

I think he needs about two or three more. He has definitely improved since the beginning of the season and there is still plenty of room for more.

[JMFP]

Here's another great one. The New York Giants aren't judging Tom Coughlin on his win-loss record.

 

Because, you know, why judge a coach by his success? I was especially moved by this:

 

 

...and its here that we have the quintessential loser's mentality. "Well, we have a team here (Coughlin and Reese) who have been average at best, but what if someone else is worse? No, lets stick with the guys we know suck." This is the same mentality that keeps women with abusive husbands. Pathetic.

 

 

From your link.....

 

 

But the Giants, quite proudly and stubbornly, do not operate this way. Not with this two-time Super Bowl-winning coach. Not with a general manager, Jerry Reese, whose lousy draft record is the real reason for the playoff drought. Both of those men appear safe in their current jobs as the offseason looms, and the reason is that the Giants view themselves as more circumspect than most organizations.

 

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

 

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

 

Given the roster, and the injuries, I'm not surprised that this team is where it is.

 

I look at the teams the Giants played and beat in both 2007 and 2011 playoffs......pretty much across the board, the Giants had a weaker roster in comparison with most of the opponents.....in 2007, the Cowboys, Packers, and Patriots had a more talented team. In 2011, the Packers, 49ers, and Patriots again looked stronger on paper.

 

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

[MikeGL]

From your link.....

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

1) Yeah, wow....Billy B and the Patriots win games with a less than decent squad. What's Coughlin's excuse?

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

2) Oh yeah, most injured...other teams haven't had injuries where teammates stepped up? Gotta give me a break there. Reese & co. should have prepared like noted.

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

3) No, clearly the problem is Reese and Reese only. Not our shitty defense adjustments. How many games have we lost because we couldn't play a good second half?

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

that's cool. the barometer for the old man was how packed and how important the last home game of the season was. i've got tickets and i'm not going and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

 

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hope Mara remembers what it felt like to hear raucous cheers each time the 49ers and Cowboys scored in Giants stadium.

If this were any other field of work ...much less just about any other team ...Mr. Boston College would be asked to gracefully step down... here is your gold watch and either a do nothing or contributory job (your choice) and lets go find another coach.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

 

From your link.....

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

1) Yeah, wow....Billy B and the Patriots win games with a less than decent squad. What's Coughlin's excuse?

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

2) Oh yeah, most injured...other teams haven't had injuries where teammates stepped up? Gotta give me a break there. Reese & co. should have prepared like noted.

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

3) No, clearly the problem is Reese and Reese only. Not our shitty defense adjustments. How many games have we lost because we couldn't play a good second half?

 

Yes I agree... its a collective failure...at all levels... the players, the coaching staff, front office and ownership have all failed the team in significant ways. This stand pat and whistle past the graveyard stuff is fine ... but three seasons of it... not so fine.

[Nas]

 

 

From your link.....

 

 

 

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

 

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

 

Given the roster, and the injuries, I'm not surprised that this team is where it is.

 

I look at the teams the Giants played and beat in both 2007 and 2011 playoffs......pretty much across the board, the Giants had a weaker roster in comparison with most of the opponents.....in 2007, the Cowboys, Packers, and Patriots had a more talented team. In 2011, the Packers, 49ers, and Patriots again looked stronger on paper.

 

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

 

Joe, I'm afraid your judgement of Reese assumes Coughlin has zero input in who we draft... And that's not fair to Reese. The idea that our D is ranked near the bottom of the league ever since we lost Spags says something about who we have at DC... and who hired him to begin with... and that's Both Reese and Coughlin...

 

Reese has done very well the last 2 drafts... so in a sense he's learned quite a bit... Coughlin on the other hand has to be forced into firing deadbeats... the "goodwill" from winning 2 trophies has saved his ass so far and should save his ass for one more year...

 

It's amazing that this team... FO and Coaches have seen us ranked near pathetic territory defensively and kept the same exact deadbeat in place... it's equally amazing that year after year injuries mount for this team and nothing was done.... This goes for the ownership if you ask me.

[Bigblue25]

 

Is there another head coach out there with a better resume than Tom Coughlin that is available? How about equal?

 

Every head coach becomes a head coach because they've gotten that opportunity. We are just going to stick with Coughlin because of past success

[Tempest]

 

Joe, I'm afraid your judgement of Reese assumes Coughlin has zero input in who we draft... And that's not fair to Reese. The idea that our D is ranked near the bottom of the league ever since we lost Spags says something about who we have at DC... and who hired him to begin with... and that's Both Reese and Coughlin...

 

Reese has done very well the last 2 drafts... so in a sense he's learned quite a bit... Coughlin on the other hand has to be forced into firing deadbeats... the "goodwill" from winning 2 trophies has saved his ass so far and should save his ass for one more year...

 

It's amazing that this team... FO and Coaches have seen us ranked near pathetic territory defensively and kept the same exact deadbeat in place... it's equally amazing that year after year injuries mount for this team and nothing was done.... This goes for the ownership if you ask me.

 

 

Tom Coughlin isn't the only coach who doesn't like management fiddling with his staff

Check this article out.

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2014/12/history_says_it_may_not_end_well_for_tom_coughlin_and_the_giants.html

 

 

History shows that those meetings are when things could get fuzzy. Both Levy and legendary Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula "retired" after refusing to make sweeping changes to their coaching staffs. The great Tom Landry was flat-out fired when Jerry Jones took ownership of the Dallas Cowboys franchise.

[Tempest]

Every head coach becomes a head coach because they've gotten that opportunity. We are just going to stick with Coughlin because of past success

 

That is pretty much how every head coach gets a job, based on past success. We should stick with Tom Coughlin until we have a better option and I think he has earned one more season to turn things around. If it doesn't work out we fire Tom Coughlin, say goodbye to Eli Manning, probably be looking at another high draft pick and possibly an opportunity at a franchise QB.

[Nas]

 

 

Tom Coughlin isn't the only coach who doesn't like management fiddling with his staff

Check this article out.

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2014/12/history_says_it_may_not_end_well_for_tom_coughlin_and_the_giants.html

 

 

History shows that those meetings are when things could get fuzzy. Both Levy and legendary Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula "retired" after refusing to make sweeping changes to their coaching staffs. The great Tom Landry was flat-out fired when Jerry Jones took ownership of the Dallas Cowboys franchise.

 

Of course he doesn't... he's stubbron... I give credit to the FO for forcing him to fire the likes of Gilbride and was it Sheridan?

[fishgutmartyr]

 

From your link.....

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

1) Yeah, wow....Billy B and the Patriots win games with a less than decent squad. What's Coughlin's excuse?

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

2) Oh yeah, most injured...other teams haven't had injuries where teammates stepped up? Gotta give me a break there. Reese & co. should have prepared like noted.

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

3) No, clearly the problem is Reese and Reese only. Not our shitty defense adjustments. How many games have we lost because we couldn't play a good second half?

 

 

1) Bellichek is a coach at the Lombardi, Shula, Noll, Landry level: Coughlin isn't. There's no shame in that, but comparing him to those guys is hardly fair.

 

2) You mean like 2011, where we had injuries, and won a SB? We should have started the rebuild in 2012, if the team was honest in its personnel assessment. That was a last hurrah, that the FO completely misread as a start of a new era.

 

3) Clearly the problem is there is no clear answer to the problem.

 

You want to blame Coughlin? How's that offensive line doing? Changing OCs clearly changed the results on offense. On the other hand, adding players to the defense really improved things before the injuries started to add up. He's culpable for that.

 

You want to blame Reese? How's that star-studded IR list going? With the addition of Brewer and Williams, we're up to 22 guys on it--nearly half the team. Nobody is winning with that many players out. The 2010 Packers had 10 guys on IR, and it was thought to be amazing that they won a SB.

 

We're in the middle of a rebuild--the turnover in the offseason should have told you that. But I haven't seen one stunted as badly by injuries as this one since the 1970's.

[Herc]

edit: wrong thread

[Sephiroth]

 

 

From your link.....

 

 

 

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

 

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

 

Given the roster, and the injuries, I'm not surprised that this team is where it is.

 

I look at the teams the Giants played and beat in both 2007 and 2011 playoffs......pretty much across the board, the Giants had a weaker roster in comparison with most of the opponents.....in 2007, the Cowboys, Packers, and Patriots had a more talented team. In 2011, the Packers, 49ers, and Patriots again looked stronger on paper.

 

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

 

If this was one year of injuries, I'd agree with you. Two years? I'd say, "wow, what shitty luck."

 

This has been eleven years of this team being one of the most injured in the NFL. What's the saying? "Once is bad luck, twice is a coincidence, and three is a pattern?" We have ELEVEN.

 

Jerry Palmieri has never, ever been a good conditioning coach. Not once in his career. Coughlin got run out of Jacksonville because his teams were always injured, and guess who his coach was? Palmieri went to the Saints for a year and half their team ended up on IR (they were smart enough to dump him after that). Then he came here and despite our teams getting crushed with injuries every year, here we are with 22 guys on injured reserve. Yeah you can't out-condition a concussion or a broken leg, but how many quads and hamstrings do we deal with every year? How many torn pecs and biceps have there been? Not just that, but Coughlin might be the worst coach in the league when it comes to managing players with injuries... ODB was on his way back in training camp before he was rushed onto the field and missed another 4 weeks. It can be argued that Hakeem Nicks' career was ruined from a year of playing on a gimpy foot and knee. We kept an ineffective JPP in for an entire season when we had 3 other starting caliber DEs on the roster.

 

But back to Palmieri... when you keep a guy who's clearly ineffective in his job, that's on you as the head coach, and Coughlin does it way too often. I agree with you that he knows his stuff, but he doesn't know how to pick assistants or evaluate their performance, and that's a huge part of being a coach in this league.

[Nas]

 

If this was one year of injuries, I'd agree with you. Two years? I'd say, "wow, what shitty luck."

 

This has been eleven years of this team being one of the most injured in the NFL. What's the saying? "Once is bad luck, twice is a coincidence, and three is a pattern?" We have ELEVEN.

 

Jerry Palmieri has never, ever been a good conditioning coach. Not once in his career. Coughlin got run out of Jacksonville because his teams were always injured, and guess who his coach was? Palmieri went to the Saints for a year and half their team ended up on IR (they were smart enough to dump him after that). Then he came here and despite our teams getting crushed with injuries every year, here we are with 22 guys on injured reserve. Yeah you can't out-condition a concussion or a broken leg, but how many quads and hamstrings do we deal with every year? How many torn pecs and biceps have there been? Not just that, but Coughlin might be the worst coach in the league when it comes to managing players with injuries... ODB was on his way back in training camp before he was rushed onto the field and missed another 4 weeks. It can be argued that Hakeem Nicks' career was ruined from a year of playing on a gimpy foot and knee. We kept an ineffective JPP in for an entire season when we had 3 other starting caliber DEs on the roster.

 

But back to Palmieri... when you keep a guy who's clearly ineffective in his job, that's on you as the head coach, and Coughlin does it way too often. I agree with you that he knows his stuff, but he doesn't know how to pick assistants or evaluate their performance, and that's a huge part of being a coach in this league.

 

Solidifies my claim that Coughlin is more inclined to hire based on loyalty instead of talent... an old stale method that guarantees status quo and maintains job security over success... and if that's how he handles coaching staff, I can see how that translates into handling of players... he let's young talent rot on the bench in favor of old fucks who shouldn't be playing anything except golf.

[GA4M]

No matter what, TC has brought us two Championships. There's many teams and fans out there that would love to say that too.