Officially drafting 12th

[Gman329]

 

Yes I did... why not? Why even play Eli yesterday? Coughlin could have "started" him for one series to keep the streak alive but do we really need our franchise QB out there in the rain risking an injury? Why not start Nassib to give him game time experience? Yes... I would have done things differently... a LOT differently. Winning against the lions and the redskins in meaningless games is just that.. meaningless... wanna show pride? Don't fucking bend over like a 2 cent slut the first 6 weeks of the season... oh shit you mean you didn't know our OL was bad? wtf was training camp for then?

 

Nas, if there is a Board "Mendoza Line" (the Jack line?), you've slipped well below it. You are not even worth answering at this point.

[Allstarjim]

This is going to be a very interesting draft, because the Giants have so many holes to fill, and are truly a bad football team, but because of their 2nd half success (if you can call it that), they again have a mediocre draft pick. We can all pretty much write off any talk about Jadeveon Clowney, OT Jake Mathews, or WR Mike Evans (who would've been high on my wish list). Clemson WR Sammy Watkins (who reminds me a lot of Larry Fitzgerald), is also going to be gone in the first 11 picks. It is so early in the process, though, that the process hasn't even started. There will be plenty of time for rising and falling, more bowl game performances, the Combine, Pro Days, etc, but we can at least talk about what we think we know right now.

 

The Giants have needs at OL, WR, TE, and possibly RB... basically the entire offense outside of the QB position.

 

For OL and RB, we need to find out about the severity of Beatty's injury and what that means for the 2014 season. Wilson will also likely be re-evaluated, and both the team and the player need to understand the level of risk for him playing football going forward. Outside of Wilson, understandably there will be a lot of Andre Brown supporters. Brown is certainly an effective player, but he also gets hurt too often. Both Wilson and Brown are question marks going into next season.

 

At WR, first I'll say that Nicks is one of my favorite Giants' players. But I don't believe he's the same player he was. I also think that he's ready to move on from this team. With Cruz getting his big payday, and so many other priorities on the team, the club would be wise to let Hakeem move on. Again, I don't think Hakeem is long for remaining a Giant. That's just my gut feeling, however. He has made immense contributions, but investing long term in him would be a mistake. He will probably go elsewhere in a 1 year "prove it" deal, or a somewhat longer deal at modest terms. I could see him catching passes from Tom Brady next season, maybe Ryan Tannehill in Miami, or back home in Carolina to play with Cam. What to do with the remaining receivers on this team is tricky. If you are sold on Jernigan based on the last few games, I won't argue with you, but he is a slot receiver, he should not be playing on the outside. Moreover, neither should Cruz. Victor is simply a much better player inside at slot than he is on the outside. Reuben Randle is an outside receiver, but I don't think he's a long term solution at the 'X' receiver unless we bring in a dominating TE (more on that later). So Jernigan is entering the final year of his deal. He should be the back up slot receiver and have a similar role to what he had this year. In my eyes, he doesn't change the needs of this team at receiver.

 

At TE, Myers is a free agent and we should let him walk. We'll be heading into year 3 of Adrien Robinson, it's about time the JPP of tight ends takes on some kind of meaningful role. If he can't handle it, he can ride the bench yet again. Larry Donnell is under contract for 2014 and is very cheap, I expect he'll be the 3rd TE on this team. Goodbye to free agent Bear Pascoe. So there is a big hole at the starting TE, that needs to be filled by a resurgent Adrien Robinson, a free agent, or a high draft pick (unlikely).

 

Switching to the defensive side of the ball, there is some concern at CB, because Prince is entering the final year of his rookie deal. Corey Webster also has a year left at a modest $1 million that is a voidable year. While Webster was hurt all year, if he can get healthy, he has a chance to prove himself again, I would like to see him back at that price. Trumaine McBride is a free agent and IMO, has earned a contract with this team. Jayron Hosley also will be back. If we can resign McBride, and try to get Terrell Thomas (another free agent) back on another deal, then CB is much less of an issue, at least for 2014, but after next season, could turn into a major hole. Which is why the team will need to either address this position in the draft or take their chances in free agency this year or next.

 

And then there is the defensive co-captain Justin Tuck. He had a nice season, is a professional, and is going to try to get a lot of money. You can make a fair case he deserves it. But the team still has Kiwanuka who also played well, a young, cheaper player looking for a larger role in Damontre Moore, and of course, JPP, entering the final year of his deal. Not to mention that inside, the team should try to retain Linval Joseph as a priority, then keeping Tuck at premium dollars doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, loyalty and history aside. If there is a Giant that embodies the two Super Bowl victories, Tuck is at or near the top of the list. But it's time to say goodbye.

 

 

Now, what to do at the #12 spot? From the early projections, the value is going to be at OT, and there seems to be a lot of choices. How those OT's perform and fall into place as we get nearer to the draft might determine which one we take. At least right now, OT seems to be where the talent is, even if it's not the most pressing need, with Beatty still an unknown for 2014 at this point.

 

Some names - Alabama OT Cyrus Kuoandjio, FSU OT Cameron Erving, the aforementioned Greg Robinson from Auburn, and don't forget about Michigan's Taylor Lewan, in addition to Texas A&M's OT Cedric Ogbuehi. However, if Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins were to somehow fall to 12, then I would take either of them.

 

A fall back guy in the 3rd round would be FSU's Kelvin Benjamin. I like him in the 3rd, but he may be gone in the 2nd. Allen Robinson from Penn State is another guy I really like. As you can see, I think WR should be a priority for an offense that is in dire need of explosiveness.

 

As far as TE, I think that is where the Giants need to go into via free agency and make a bit of a splash. They need a better presence in the middle of the field. I know this is crazy, but Jimmy Graham is a free agent. He would be a game changer for the offense. New Orleans is unlikely to let him go, but he's one player I wouldn't mind the Giants being very aggressive in trying to obtain. But another free agent would look great in Giants' blue and wouldn't break the bank. That's Dennis Pitta.

 

The biggest priority is rebuilding the interior of the offensive line. This should not be addressed in the first round, and there is no value there at #12 in the first round, at least at first glance. There will be guards in rounds 2-4 that will be good players. Notre Dame's Zack Martin in round 2 I think would be a solid pick. He has very good feet, and has played LT for the Irish in the past.

 

 

[Bigblue25]

Free agents I would like to see added to Jim's

 

Matt Slauson OG

Mike Pollak OG/ C

 

Alteraun Verner CB

Chris Harris CB

If not Pitta

Brandon Pettigrew TE

 

Michael Johnson DE

[Gman329]

This is going to be a very interesting draft, because the Giants have so many holes to fill, and are truly a bad football team, but because of their 2nd half success (if you can call it that), they again have a mediocre draft pick. We can all pretty much write off any talk about Jadeveon Clowney, OT Jake Mathews, or WR Mike Evans (who would've been high on my wish list). Clemson WR Sammy Watkins (who reminds me a lot of Larry Fitzgerald), is also going to be gone in the first 11 picks. It is so early in the process, though, that the process hasn't even started. There will be plenty of time for rising and falling, more bowl game performances, the Combine, Pro Days, etc, but we can at least talk about what we think we know right now.

 

The Giants have needs at OL, WR, TE, and possibly RB... basically the entire offense outside of the QB position.

 

For OL and RB, we need to find out about the severity of Beatty's injury and what that means for the 2014 season. Wilson will also likely be re-evaluated, and both the team and the player need to understand the level of risk for him playing football going forward. Outside of Wilson, understandably there will be a lot of Andre Brown supporters. Brown is certainly an effective player, but he also gets hurt too often. Both Wilson and Brown are question marks going into next season.

 

At WR, first I'll say that Nicks is one of my favorite Giants' players. But I don't believe he's the same player he was. I also think that he's ready to move on from this team. With Cruz getting his big payday, and so many other priorities on the team, the club would be wise to let Hakeem move on. Again, I don't think Hakeem is long for remaining a Giant. That's just my gut feeling, however. He has made immense contributions, but investing long term in him would be a mistake. He will probably go elsewhere in a 1 year "prove it" deal, or a somewhat longer deal at modest terms. I could see him catching passes from Tom Brady next season, maybe Ryan Tannehill in Miami, or back home in Carolina to play with Cam. What to do with the remaining receivers on this team is tricky. If you are sold on Jernigan based on the last few games, I won't argue with you, but he is a slot receiver, he should not be playing on the outside. Moreover, neither should Cruz. Victor is simply a much better player inside at slot than he is on the outside. Reuben Randle is an outside receiver, but I don't think he's a long term solution at the 'X' receiver unless we bring in a dominating TE (more on that later). So Jernigan is entering the final year of his deal. He should be the back up slot receiver and have a similar role to what he had this year. In my eyes, he doesn't change the needs of this team at receiver.

 

At TE, Myers is a free agent and we should let him walk. We'll be heading into year 3 of Adrien Robinson, it's about time the JPP of tight ends takes on some kind of meaningful role. If he can't handle it, he can ride the bench yet again. Larry Donnell is under contract for 2014 and is very cheap, I expect he'll be the 3rd TE on this team. Goodbye to free agent Bear Pascoe. So there is a big hole at the starting TE, that needs to be filled by a resurgent Adrien Robinson, a free agent, or a high draft pick (unlikely).

 

Switching to the defensive side of the ball, there is some concern at CB, because Prince is entering the final year of his rookie deal. Corey Webster also has a year left at a modest $1 million that is a voidable year. While Webster was hurt all year, if he can get healthy, he has a chance to prove himself again, I would like to see him back at that price. Trumaine McBride is a free agent and IMO, has earned a contract with this team. Jayron Hosley also will be back. If we can resign McBride, and try to get Terrell Thomas (another free agent) back on another deal, then CB is much less of an issue, at least for 2014, but after next season, could turn into a major hole. Which is why the team will need to either address this position in the draft or take their chances in free agency this year or next.

 

And then there is the defensive co-captain Justin Tuck. He had a nice season, is a professional, and is going to try to get a lot of money. You can make a fair case he deserves it. But the team still has Kiwanuka who also played well, a young, cheaper player looking for a larger role in Damontre Moore, and of course, JPP, entering the final year of his deal. Not to mention that inside, the team should try to retain Linval Joseph as a priority, then keeping Tuck at premium dollars doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, loyalty and history aside. If there is a Giant that embodies the two Super Bowl victories, Tuck is at or near the top of the list. But it's time to say goodbye.

 

 

Now, what to do at the #12 spot? From the early projections, the value is going to be at OT, and there seems to be a lot of choices. How those OT's perform and fall into place as we get nearer to the draft might determine which one we take. At least right now, OT seems to be where the talent is, even if it's not the most pressing need, with Beatty still an unknown for 2014 at this point.

 

Some names - Alabama OT Cyrus Kuoandjio, FSU OT Cameron Erving, the aforementioned Greg Robinson from Auburn, and don't forget about Michigan's Taylor Lewan, in addition to Texas A&M's OT Cedric Ogbuehi. However, if Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins were to somehow fall to 12, then I would take either of them.

 

A fall back guy in the 3rd round would be FSU's Kelvin Benjamin. I like him in the 3rd, but he may be gone in the 2nd. Allen Robinson from Penn State is another guy I really like. As you can see, I think WR should be a priority for an offense that is in dire need of explosiveness.

 

As far as TE, I think that is where the Giants need to go into via free agency and make a bit of a splash. They need a better presence in the middle of the field. I know this is crazy, but Jimmy Graham is a free agent. He would be a game changer for the offense. New Orleans is unlikely to let him go, but he's one player I wouldn't mind the Giants being very aggressive in trying to obtain. But another free agent would look great in Giants' blue and wouldn't break the bank. That's Dennis Pitta.

 

The biggest priority is rebuilding the interior of the offensive line. This should not be addressed in the first round, and there is no value there at #12 in the first round, at least at first glance. There will be guards in rounds 2-4 that will be good players. Notre Dame's Zack Martin in round 2 I think would be a solid pick. He has very good feet, and has played LT for the Irish in the past.

 

 

 

Excellent overview. Agree with all assessments......but no way we'd have the cap space needed to compete for Jimmy Graham, unfortunately.

[BronxRik]

 

Yes I did... why not? Why even play Eli yesterday? Coughlin could have "started" him for one series to keep the streak alive but do we really need our franchise QB out there in the rain risking an injury? Why not start Nassib to give him game time experience? Yes... I would have done things differently... a LOT differently. Winning against the lions and the redskins in meaningless games is just that.. meaningless... wanna show pride? Don't fucking bend over like a 2 cent slut the first 6 weeks of the season... oh shit you mean you didn't know our OL was bad? wtf was training camp for then?

Because the 2013 NY Giants are not the 1919 Chicago White Sox. Playing to lose for a better draft position is not only retarded, but is also a fan myth. I can't think of a single instance, in any sport, where a team proudly loses just so they can be better the following season.

[Nas]

Because the 2013 NY Giants are not the 1919 Chicago White Sox. Playing to lose for a better draft position is not only retarded, but is also a fan myth. I can't think of a single instance, in any sport, where a team proudly loses just so they can be better the following season.

Well I guess were just gonna have to disagree. I guess playing your franchise QB in a meaningless game is well worth it too never mind you have a rookie QB whom we're supposed to see what he's made of.

[fringe]

Because the 2013 NY Giants are not the 1919 Chicago White Sox. Playing to lose for a better draft position is not only retarded, but is also a fan myth. I can't think of a single instance, in any sport, where a team proudly loses just so they can be better the following season.

 

happens in the NBA fairly regularly.

[BronxRik]

happens in the NBA fairly regularly.

Then I stand corrected. I thought OJ was innocent at first as well.

[BleedinBlue]

happens in the NBA fairly regularly.

Beat me to it. It's exactly what the NBA did for years when rebuilding and that's why they had to go with the lottery system for all the teams that missed the playoffs. The weighted system increases the odds that the worst team gets the number one pick, but it rarely happens and the 14th best non-playoff team still has a chance at winning the first pick.

 

All because teams were throwing games once they realized they gained by losing.

[Bigblue25]

Beat me to it. It's exactly what the NBA did for years when rebuilding and that's why they had to go with the lottery system for all the teams that missed the playoffs. The weighted system increases the odds that the worst team gets the number one pick, but it rarely happens and the 14th best non-playoff team still has a chance at winning the first pick.

 

All because teams were throwing games once they realized they gained by losing.

It worked for Cleveland to get LeBron

[Nas]

It's not just about throwing games either.., a wise coach would use the opportunity to evaluate the young guys... Not to mention saving a franchise QB from possible injury.... Never have I seen this board (some posters) so dismissive of a different point if view to the point of attacking other posters.... You know who the fuck you are so cool it.

[RandolphScott]

It's an idiotic view point, that's why.

 

Did any of you see Ryan Nassib play in pre-season? Want to know why he was a healthy scratch in every game this season? BECAUSE HE WASN'T FUCKING READY IN PRE-SEASON AND HE WASN'T READY DURING THE REGULAR SEASON. It's not all that hard to comprehend. I can literally only imagine this happened when Matt Barkley (a guy selected a few spots ahead of Nassib) was forced into action:

 

By a number of Eagles fans:

 

"Man, it really sucks that Vick and Foles are hurt, because Barkley isn't ready to play against an NFL defense,"

 

When you have more people on the field who don't have a clue, that just gets more people injured.

[Nas]

Why isn't he ready? Has there never been a rookie let aline a rookie QB playing in the NFL?

 

And this is week 17 we're talking about.

[BleedinBlue]

It worked for Cleveland to get LeBron

Didn't work out so well for Boston when they won the no.1 pick overall and spent it on the next Michael Jordan, Len Bias! That has to really suck to win the no.1 pick, draft the player every team wants, and then read in the paper the next day that he died of a cocaine overdose.

[BleedinBlue]

Why isn't he ready? Has there never been a rookie let aline a rookie QB playing in the NFL?

 

And this is week 17 we're talking about.

If it's any consolation Naz, I agree with you about getting reps in for younger players in a game that means absolutely nothing. Had we lost the last 3 games, we'd be drafting 9th instead of 12th....but in reality, there's about 4 or 5 players in the first tier, and then about 10 players in the second tier, then the next 10-15 in the third tier...and they are all about the same within the tier you are stuck in. Once in awhile, a truly great stud falls because some team insists on getting a QB while they are still on the board and lets a 1st tier player fall, but for the most part - won't make a huge difference. There will be real quality on the board at 12. Personally, I wish we were drafting 9th, but that's water over the damn. I'm sure from the coaches perspective that they wanted to win the last two games to keep their jobs - another reason to root for the Giants to lose! LOL

[Nas]

If it's any consolation Naz, I agree with you about getting reps in for younger players in a game that means absolutely nothing. Had we lost the last 3 games, we'd be drafting 9th instead of 12th....but in reality, there's about 4 or 5 players in the first tier, and then about 10 players in the second tier, then the next 10-15 in the third tier...and they are all about the same within the tier you are stuck in. Once in awhile, a truly great stud falls because some team insists on getting a QB while they are still on the board and lets a 1st tier player fall, but for the most part - won't make a huge difference. There will be real quality on the board at 12. Personally, I wish we were drafting 9th, but that's water over the damn. I'm sure from the coaches perspective that they wanted to win the last two games to keep their jobs - another reason to root for the Giants to lose! LOL

 

A lot of people agree with the notion you should get your young guys some game-time experience whenever possible... And quite frankly having Eli out there was stupid... you don't risk injury to your franchise QB in a meaningless game.

 

What's funny is you have a few characters in here that don't stomach a disagreement... And resort to pointless personal attacks. And then someone is going to mock my trip to Albany back in 2002 like it didn't happen... truth is no one here can prove it didn't happen and that makes them come off like assholes. Yes I took the trip.. and I kicked... and my kicks were more powerful than the guy who ended up starting for the Giants that year... woot woot woot... I didn't know you had to be 6' 5" 350 lbs to fucking kick in the NFL smh.

[RandolphScott]

I can almost guarantee that Nassib barely got any practice reps during the season. at most, he might have ran the scout team practice.

 

You aren't going to risk the health of other players when the guy who touches the ball the most doesn't know what he is doing.

 

And show me any 4th round rookie QB who played well the last few years.

[BleedinBlue]

I can almost guarantee that Nassib barely got any practice reps during the season. at most, he might have ran the scout team practice.

 

You aren't going to risk the health of other players when the guy who touches the ball the most doesn't know what he is doing.

 

And show me any 4th round rookie QB who played well the last few years.

Joe Theismann was a pretty damn good QB who was a 4th round pick.

 

Then of course, you have Tom Brady (6th round pick), Roger Staubach was a 10th round pick (before the draft was limited to 7 rounds), Bart Starr didn't get picked until the 17th round.

[fringe]

Didn't work out so well for Boston when they won the no.1 pick overall and spent it on the next Michael Jordan, Len Bias! That has to really suck to win the no.1 pick, draft the player every team wants, and then read in the paper the next day that he died of a cocaine overdose.

Sucked for him too.

[Tempest]

It really does not matter at this point if we were drafting at 16th, 12th, 9th or 4th. Team still has no clue who they will need at that point because free agency has to shake out the roster.

[RandolphScott]

I'm beyond convinced that Bleedin doesn't know how to read.

[Nas]

I can almost guarantee that Nassib barely got any practice reps during the season. at most, he might have ran the scout team practice.

 

You aren't going to risk the health of other players when the guy who touches the ball the most doesn't know what he is doing.

 

And show me any 4th round rookie QB who played well the last few years.

 

But this is kindda what irks me... why not get the guy to practice? How is it other teams are able to get their rookies, 2nd and 3rd year players on the field while ours rot on the bench?

[Lughead]

 

But this is kindda what irks me... why not get the guy to practice? How is it other teams are able to get their rookies, 2nd and 3rd year players on the field while ours rot on the bench?

see Jernigan and Mara's comments .

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

see Jernigan and Mara's comments .

And what many fans fail to realize is that its usually left up to the coordinators in determining who sees the field on a given play after the game roster has been set. So a Moore or Jernigan might see more playing time with other coordinators...guys like Empty Tank and Saint Gilbride had their "reasons" for not playing them and others. It was a crime against humanity to have JPP back on the field this year after major back surgery...his NFL growth was actually retarded because of this bone headed decision. A year ago rushing Nicks back from injury resulted in him getting injured again... But that is the NFL of today...the game is geared toward short term decision making...akin to Wall Street...

[Nas]

And what many fans fail to realize is that its usually left up to the coordinators in determining who sees the field on a given play after the game roster has been set. So a Moore or Jernigan might see more playing time with other coordinators...guys like Empty Tank and Saint Gilbride had their "reasons" for not playing them and others. It was a crime against humanity to have JPP back on the field this year after major back surgery...his NFL growth was actually retarded because of this bone headed decision. A year ago rushing Nicks back from injury resulted in him getting injured again... But that is the NFL of today...the game is geared toward short term decision making...akin to Wall Street...

 

But don't you dare criticize the experts... remember they've forgotten more football in the last hour and you and I can fathom.