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A Different Take On the Draft


parlintm
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I guess we should start at the beginning, a breakdown of the squad before the draft. Since most of you know this, we'll do the cliff notes version.

 

Offense:

OL - solid. Luke P. is a big question mark. I attribute that entirely to his penalties, not his post-snap play. I think he's our LT for this year and next year regardless of whether or not we draft a LT in the first round, (debatable after todays events).

QB - set

rb - good. any RB we draft fights w/ ward for a spot.

te - set

wr - pretty good #1, aging #2, #3?

fb - i love jim finn.

 

Defense:

de: 2 probowlers. 1 retiring soon. justin tuck is up and coming but has he proved he is mikes replacement?

dt: willie joe, fatties

lb: lavar, hehehe. ap, suck it washington. torbor/emmons. short/blackburn backing up (good but not great).

cb: madison, webser (for those of you who think we had to draft a cb, remember corey webster was THE SHIT when we drafted him. he's a talented mofo. i think he will be good but thats beside the point. no rookie that we could have drafted even had a chance of taking his spot. period. they would be fighting w/ deloach and walker for the nickel.)

 

So our team is pretty set for this season, regardless of who we draft, except at DT if we are able to bring in a solid player

 

The Draft:

 

Round 1: Mathius K. -- A very talented DE. If you don't think so, you don't watch college football. I think I could make the case that he was the best player available. I think the only people that were possibly BPA's were: Winston Justice, Santonio Holmes, Chad Jackson and Jimmy Williams. Now, obviously I'm talking about pre-trade. I think, especially if you're targeting Moss in the 2nd) you pass on the WR's. WR's are no sure thing transitioning from college to the pros. IMO, there are too many players like Charles Rogers and Peter Warrick for WR's to be sure things. Let alone the fact that we have Carter and Taylor who I really think would contribute something to this team if they could stay healthy. If.

 

Anway, Mathias could be a PHENOMENAL pass rusher if he added some muscle. He's also proven that he is productive with his consistent sack numbers every year, even when injured. I think in order to have a great pass rush, you need 3 solid pass rushers. Right now we have Strahan, Osi and Tuck. In the future, ideally we will have Osi, Tuck and Kiwi. We all know Osi will be great but chances are one of the other two will be very good as well and worst case scenario, all three are great.

 

Round 2: Santana Moss -- A player most people would have rather had than Mathius K. in the first. For those of you that think this, pretend like we took moss in the first and MK in the second. Anway, Moss adds a true speed daemon (with hands) to the offense. Also, a potentially GREAT punt/kickoff returner. Granted, I think Jackson has a better pro of turning into a great pro than Moss, but in reality Moss isn't really that much of a downgrade. Espcecially since he brings the punt returning to the table.

 

Round 3: I think we've arguably taken the two BPA in the previous rounds and it's now time to address an area of need. AFter some speculation, a few seemingly quality DT's fall to us in the third round. PERFECT!! Instead, EA drafts Gerris Wilkerson!! I mean, of all people!! Now, Gerris Wilkerson has the potential to be phenomenal. Most times I think getting him this late in the draft would be a great pick but with Watson and Babatunde on the Board!??! We NEED at DT and here are two guys who at the very least would clog the middle and require too occupy them instead of our beloved LB's. I mean, I'm speachless.

 

So heading into round 3 I actually thought the draft was pretty good. We added two players who had great chances to contribute to this team in the long run. We added two dynamic guys who should have a positive impact this year and had the potential to be big starters in a few years. But we needed a DT in round 3 and a quite a few guys dropped to us that seemed more than worthy of a pick.

 

So why did EA pass them up? I'd like to think he's not retarded (although the fab 4 seem to think he is). I mean, he's done quite well lately. Eli, Tuck, Umenyiora, Joseph (actually quite a good draft of his if you check it out, give the other players in the draft). Regardless, it seems obvious that we need a DT. I mean he MUST have some plan for that position. Here is what I think the options are:

a) Joseph (starter in every scenrio) and Robbins as starters. I dont even know who would back these guys up. This is not a realistic possibility and I think the least likely.

b) Quite few quality DT's fell this far in the draft. Maybe EA knows/thinks a certain player will be available in the fourth and will address this issue by making a GREAT pick in the fouth.

c) He has a certain DT in mind that he still will sign.

d) We're switching to some crazy defense and we only need WJ as the NT or we switch someone to DT like Tuck or MK.

 

I mean, are there any other options?

 

So in summary, I think our first 2 picks are great picks for the future of the franchise but we could have used one of our picks on our only key position of need, DT. It seemed so obvious that passing it up is confusing and I hope that this gets answered tomorrow or someone has some insight as to why EA didnt take a DT with the third round pick... other than him being retarded. I actually like Wilkerson a lot... but I thought Watson was the only option there. Although, as Money said, one of our coaches worked with him once upon a time and had some experience with him. If we're passing up Watson there, maybe the other DT''s werent worth the pick. Thoughts?

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I've seen Kiwi in a few games, and tracked him through the week of the Senior Bowl, and I never came away impressed. He would always get the accolades, but from what I saw, he just gets stopped in his tracks and pushed around way too often.

 

He's a physical specimen, and he could bulk up, I just hope he's able to develop some consistency, and become more of a physical player altogether.

 

What's worrisome to me is that it's very tough finding a DT on the 2nd day. Always productive looking back in hindsight, but I would have been much happier selecting Moss with our first pick, and using the #2 on either Wroten or Dvoracek.

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for the people who can express themselves without using the word 'dude'...how was Corey Webster 'the shit' when we drafted him? I remember him being a 2nd round pick with just as much of a question mark on him as any other CB we could have picked THIS year. I also remember him playing sparingly and mediocre to good at best this past season. I also remember Steve Smith completely destroying him.

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I've seen Kiwi in a few games, and tracked him through the week of the Senior Bowl, and I never came away impressed. He would always get the accolades, but from what I saw, he just gets stopped in his tracks and pushed around way too often.

 

He's a physical specimen, and he could bulk up, I just hope he's able to develop some consistency, and become more of a physical player altogether.

 

What's worrisome to me is that it's very tough finding a DT on the 2nd day. Always productive looking back in hindsight, but I would have been much happier selecting Moss with our first pick, and using the #2 on either Wroten or Dvoracek.

 

I probably would have been too, but I think we'll come into training camp with at least one more quality DT. Whether it's via FA or the draft, I do not know.

 

Senior Bowl he went against DBrick who might end up being the best LT this decade so I'm not going to let too much ride on that. But the games that I saw, he was very disruptive. I think he's got a chance to be phenomenal pro. If I had to put money down on who would finish with a better career right now: Tuck or Kiwi.... Id say Kiwi.

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for the people who can express themselves without using the word 'dude'...how was Corey Webster 'the shit' when we drafted him? I remember him being a 2nd round pick with just as much of a question mark on him as any other CB we could have picked THIS year. I also remember him playing sparingly and mediocre to good at best this past season. I also remember Steve Smith completely destroying him.

 

that's the point. no rookie is going to come in here and start. its just not happening. he was a very talented CB, similar to Cromartie in draft situation. a talented player who just needed some experience. he clearly struggled at times, but also showed his talent. i just dont think that there was a rookie that we could have drafted that would have come in and been a better pro player this year than corey webster. covering profession wide receivers is difficult. ashton youboty couldnt cover steve smith, guaranteed.

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that's the point. no rookie is going to come in here and start. its just not happening. he was a very talented CB, similar to Cromartie in draft situation. a talented player who just needed some experience. he clearly struggled at times, but also showed his talent. i just dont think that there was a rookie that we could have drafted that would have come in and been a better pro player this year than corey webster. covering profession wide receivers is difficult. ashton youboty couldnt cover steve smith, guaranteed.

webster doesnt have half the talent that cromartie has. the only similarity they share is that they were both injured.

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that's the point. no rookie is going to come in here and start. its just not happening. he was a very talented CB, similar to Cromartie in draft situation. a talented player who just needed some experience. he clearly struggled at times, but also showed his talent. i just dont think that there was a rookie that we could have drafted that would have come in and been a better pro player this year than corey webster. covering profession wide receivers is difficult. ashton youboty couldnt cover steve smith, guaranteed.

]

 

but i mean, what's the difference between taking a risk on a player that has been injured(Webster), and taking a player that's been in trouble or a Lendale White type player who has also been injured(because if we were drafting for the future, Lendale is my pick)...that's what I dont get about this draft for the Giants...instead, they take a risk on a player in a position we didnt need all that bad on a player that was a projected second round pick...

 

I'm happy with Webster and all but our CB situation for the future is a lot more hazy than the DE situation

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cromartie wasnt even available when we picked so this isnt even worth debating.

the point is, webster isnt as talented as you seem to think. cromartie could probably beat him out his first year, not that that would be some kind of accomplishment. if you think we're solid at CB you're in for a surprise.

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]

 

but i mean, what's the difference between taking a risk on a player that has been injured(Webster), and taking a player that's been in trouble or a Lendale White type player who has also been injured(because if we were drafting for the future, Lendale is my pick)...that's what I dont get about this draft for the Giants...instead, they take a risk on a player in a position we didnt need all that bad on a player that was a projected second round pick...

 

I'm happy with Webster and all but our CB situation for the future is a lot more hazy than the DE situation

 

Sometimes you know if a player will make a full recovery from injury, players don't recover from character issues. In the case of Webster, he made a full recover. I dont think anyone would blame his struggles last year on his foot. I think they had more to do with the speed and difficulty of transitoning to the pro game.

 

As for Lendale, I truly think he will be an awful pro. I think that linebackers in this league are going to eat him apart and if he has any worth ethic issues whatsover, you can say goodbye to Lendale. All it takes is for Tom Coughlin or EA to share that opinion and that is why we don't take him. I think the only possible BPA's are: Holmes, Jackson, Justice and Williams (both actually). Since they made it clear that Moss was higher rated than either of the other 2 receivers, passing on those two makes sense. Justice and Jimmy also are understandable given their off-field issues. That leaves Deangelo who would have to kick derrick ward off the team, not necessarily a huge upgrade this year. Meanwhile we got a guy that we can put into the rotation immediately. He should also be a standout on special teams.

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I would have loved to see us grab Deangelo, though. Even Joseph Addai...I think Tiki is going to be retiring sooner than everyone seems to think...he's not going to be a Giant forever...

 

on another note...isn't it kind of stupid how far players drop because of stupid stuff like smoking pot once...or stealing a video game. Hell, if people judged me by the stuff I do, everyone would hate me and I'd be the last in line in everything I do!

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No way would Cromartie beat out Webster this year. Cromartie hasn't played since 2004 and started 1 game in college. The only CB on our roster that he'd beat out as a rookie is maybe Frank Walker.

he's a beast! webster is unathletic (by a cornerback's standards) when he's healthy. i'm not saying he'd be great his first year, i'm just not too high on webster. i've never thought he was really talented. in college he was a 'right place, right time' kind of guy. we can still really use some help at cornerback, i still don't see our situation as a long term solution.

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he's a beast! webster is unathletic (by a cornerback's standards) when he's healthy. i'm not saying he'd be great his first year, i'm just not too high on webster. i've never thought he was really talented. in college he was a 'right place, right time' kind of guy. we can still really use some help at cornerback, i still don't see our situation as a long term solution.

 

i dont think it's a longterm solution because we dont have a guy to play opposite webster. but the point is we are not improving this position through the draft this year so saying that we needed to take a cb in round 1 over a DE due to need is just not right.

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i dont think it's a longterm solution because we dont have a guy to play opposite webster. but the point is we are not improving this position through the draft this year so saying that we needed to take a cb in round 1 over a DE due to need is just not right.

 

 

but we arent improving the DE situation either...

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i dont think it's a longterm solution because we dont have a guy to play opposite webster. but the point is we are not improving this position through the draft this year so saying that we needed to take a cb in round 1 over a DE due to need is just not right.

i didnt even say that. i thought i made it pretty clear i wanted us to take chad jackson. an yes, obviously we are not improving the cornerback situation through the draft this year.

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he's a beast! webster is unathletic (by a cornerback's standards) when he's healthy. i'm not saying he'd be great his first year, i'm just not too high on webster. i've never thought he was really talented. in college he was a 'right place, right time' kind of guy. we can still really use some help at cornerback, i still don't see our situation as a long term solution.

 

Not disputing Cromartie's skills, but there is a massive learning curve for CBs making the transition to the NFL. Performance at CB is every bit as predicated on savvy/experience as it as on pure athleticism.

 

Webster is very athletic, by any standard. I thought you were a LSU fan. Holla at your boy!!

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but we arent improving the DE situation either...

I think we have.

 

You now have two very talented young guys who get to watch a future hall of famer and another Pro-Bowler in action. In two or so years, Tuck and Kiwi are going to battle it out for Strahan's starting position. At that point, you have either a starter-caliber backup, or you can trade him for one or two picks. You've now maintained the position as a position of strength, and have extra draft picks.

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No way would Cromartie beat out Webster this year. Cromartie hasn't played since 2004 and started 1 game in college. The only CB on our roster that he'd beat out as a rookie is maybe Frank Walker.

 

That is what has had me confused with Cromartie--as good an athelete as this guy supposedly is, he has relatively little on-field experience. It's going to be a couple of years before he starts making an impact, if he ever does. The team that took him in the first round took a big risk, in my opinion.

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That is what has had me confused with Cromartie--as good an athelete as this guy supposedly is, he has relatively little on-field experience. It's going to be a couple of years before he starts making an impact, if he ever does. The team that took him in the first round took a big risk, in my opinion.

 

I agree, he is a risk. Guys with his ability are rare, so it's easy to justify the pick. I think he would have been a nice fit here, because he would not have been pressed into action. He could have taken 1-2 years to hone his skills and gain experience. A team that expects him to impact early will come away disappointed.

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he's a beast! webster is unathletic (by a cornerback's standards) when he's healthy. i'm not saying he'd be great his first year, i'm just not too high on webster. i've never thought he was really talented. in college he was a 'right place, right time' kind of guy. we can still really use some help at cornerback, i still don't see our situation as a long term solution.

Wasn't Corey a projected top 10 pick if he played a full season at full health? I'm sure he has a lot of talent.

 

From the negatives I've read in Mathias' scouting report, I think with time and proper coaching, he can become a very, very good DE. It seems like he has all the tools and the kinks in his game can be fixed with adding muscle and learning proper technique in the NFL along with learning agressiveness. And when you get to watch Michael Strahan up close 16 games a year (hopefully in this case 19), you are probably going to learn something.

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Despite doing my best to put some sort of positive spin on the draft thus far i still can't stop asking questions. Ugh..this draft has sucked the wind out of me after an exciting off season...Day 2 starts now lets hope a Gabe Watson or Babatunde Oshinowo can put some life back into me.

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Not disputing Cromartie's skills, but there is a massive learning curve for CBs making the transition to the NFL. Performance at CB is every bit as predicated on savvy/experience as it as on pure athleticism.

 

Webster is very athletic, by any standard. I thought you were a LSU fan. Holla at your boy!!

<--- still pissed about the massively underachieving team of 2004.

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