parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Mathias K. is a MUCH better prospect than Tuck. I love Tuck as much as the next guy but he has NOT proven to be an every play DE. Between Tuck, Osi and Mathias our DE's are set for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockjock Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Mathias K. is a MUCH better prospect than Tuck. I love Tuck as much as the next guy but he has NOT proven to be an every play DE. Between Tuck, Osi and Mathias our DE's are set for a long time. and Kiwi has proven to be an every down player? He better turn out to be a better player than Jackson, Ryans or Jimmy Williams....that is all I can say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 and Kiwi has proven to be an every down player? He better turn out to be a better player than Jackson, Ryans or Jimmy Williams....that is all I can say No, but the more quality players you have the better chance that one will emerge as a great player. Jackson -- we just got moss so we addressed that area of need. Ryans -- LB is locked up even longer than DE. there's a good chance matias beats Tuck out for Strahans spot. so cant say that we had to go w/ LB over DE. Jimmy Williams -- lots of potential but a few too many issues. i think mathias will be better than williams when its all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockjock Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 No, but the more quality players you have the better chance that one will emerge as a great player. Jackson -- we just got moss so we addressed that area of need. Ryans -- LB is locked up even longer than DE. there's a good chance matias beats Tuck out for Strahans spot. so cant say that we had to go w/ LB over DE. Jimmy Williams -- lots of potential but a few too many issues. i think mathias will be better than williams when its all said and done. and let's say Kiwi beats out Tuck for Strahan's spot.......we then wasted a third round pick on Justin tuck...We should of given Tuck another year to show what he can do before we brought in someone to replace him We needed to go after a wideout, DT and CB in the first three rounds....this is a wasted first round pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockjock Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Well, if we could get Moss in the second, why take Jackson in the first? And I guess we weren't that high on Justice and White. After those two, who else was there? I don't like Williams and I guess the Giants FO agreed. We could of taken Moss or Jackson with the 32 pick....and still have our two third rounders and the second to go after a DT, CB and LB...anyway I look at it...I see a major league blunder with our first round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsmalls Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Seriously...the first pick was so bad the highest grade I'd give EA on this draft would be a C+... There's no going back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 and let's say Kiwi beats out Tuck for Strahan's spot.......we then wasted a third round pick on Justin tuck...We should of given Tuck another year to show what he can do before we brought in someone to replace him We needed to go after a wideout, DT and CB in the first three rounds....this is a wasted first round pick... You need more than two quality DE's. Notice we use Tuck, Osi and Strahan? Well in the future we will use Mathias, Osi and Tuck. You draft by talent, not need. Pretend like we drafted Moss in the first and got Mathias in the second. That's pretty good. And we got an extra fourth rounder along the way. So this is actually a pretty good draft, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsmalls Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 You need more than two quality DE's. Notice we use Tuck, Osi and Strahan? Well in the future we will use Mathias, Osi and Tuck. You draft by talent, not need. Pretend like we drafted Moss in the first and got Mathias in the second. That's pretty good. And we got an extra fourth rounder along the way. So this is actually a pretty good draft, IMO. There were more talented players at pick #32 than Kiwanuka! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 There were more talented players at pick #32 than Kiwanuka! Who? Justice? - 1 arrest I can understand but 3? Jimmy Williams - character issues too. youboty? -- less talented holmes/jackson?? -- i actually think moss will have a bigger impact immediately than either of these guys would have on our offense this year. who is more talented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmiwinks Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 How many people on this board questioned OSI when he was drafted????? OK then Stra is Old and has back problems he is done in a year or so Trying to find a replacement for one of the best Giants DE ever isnt a bad Idea PS I love MOSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsmalls Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Who? Justice? - 1 arrest I can understand but 3? Jimmy Williams - character issues too. youboty? -- less talented holmes/jackson?? -- i actually think moss will have a bigger impact immediately than either of these guys would have on our offense this year. who is more talented? Even if you believe that THE MOST talented person at #32 was Mathias Kiwanuka....why would you draft him anyway when you have two pro-bowl DEs and one a a sure-fire HOFer when he retires. Lendale White is definitely more talented than Kiwanuka if you want talent over need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Even if you believe that THE MOST talented person at #32 was Mathias Kiwanuka....why would you draft him anyway when you have two pro-bowl DEs and one a a sure-fire HOFer when he retires. Lendale White is definitely more talented than Kiwanuka if you want talnet over need. We are drafting Mathias to replace one of those 2 pro bowlers. So that hopefully in the future we will still have 2 pro bowl DE's playing for us. I firmly believe White will be a bust in the league. He's a "big" back who is not very big. I think he will be out of the league in 5 years, especially if he has a poor work ethic like everyone says he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmiwinks Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Even if you believe that THE MOST talented person at #32 was Mathias Kiwanuka....why would you draft him anyway when you have two pro-bowl DEs and one a a sure-fire HOFer when he retires. Lendale White is definitely more talented than Kiwanuka if you want talent over need. Stra has 2 years left at best.....I love him dont get me wrong but he is old with back problems...If he can school this guy for those 2 years he will end up being a top DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsmalls Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I like "Molasses" Kiwanuka! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrahan22_1/2 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 We are drafting Mathias to replace one of those 2 pro bowlers. So that hopefully in the future we will still have 2 pro bowl DE's playing for us. I firmly believe White will be a bust in the league. He's a "big" back who is not very big. I think he will be out of the league in 5 years, especially if he has a poor work ethic like everyone says he does. sorry armstead, but i'm not buying the positive spin on this. i wasn't upset about the trade, i thought that when we picked there wasnt really any great value picks on the board, but when we were up to pick, chad jackson was by far the best player on the board, not to mention we don't have two pro bowlers starting at receiver. i think kiwanuka is a talented player, and i wouldnt be upset with the pick if he was the bpa but he wasnt, jackson was by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsmalls Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 We'll draft a Quarterback in the third...maybe a TE or another WR! Wait, I think we need another DE...what about GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 sorry armstead, but i'm not buying the positive spin on this. i wasn't upset about the trade, i thought that when we picked there wasnt really any great value picks on the board, but when we were up to pick, chad jackson was by far the best player on the board, not to mention we don't have two pro bowlers starting at receiver. i think kiwanuka is a talented player, and i wouldnt be upset with the pick if he was the bpa but he wasnt, jackson was by a mile. I think it's impossible to say that Jackson was the BPA in the draft. Historically, WR's are the toughest to transition from college to the pro's. They are completely hit or miss, just go look at the past drafts and see who the first round WR's were. Many are no longer in the NFL. Also, as a rule of thumb, the dropoff in talent from the first to third round is much higher for all other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockjock Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I think it's impossible to say that Jackson was the BPA in the draft. Historically, WR's are the toughest to transition from college to the pro's. They are completely hit or miss, just go look at the past drafts and see who the first round WR's were. Many are no longer in the NFL. Also, as a rule of thumb, the dropoff in talent from the first to third round is much higher for all other positions. No...Jackson was hands down the BPA....an argument could be made for Jimmy Williams, Demeco Ryans or Winston Justice.....not Kiwi... Jackson has the size, speed, hands and production in College that shows that he was, without a doubt, the most talented player left... This was not a case of the best player available, did not fill a need....hell, it wasn't even a good pick for the future seeing as we already have tuck.....it was just a miserable, terrible, horrible, no good, very bad pick.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrahan22_1/2 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 WR rarely ever come into the NFL and perform well. Just look at all the top 10 WR's chosen over the past couple of years. NO chance they would take Toomer's spot. Lendale is going to be an awful pro. He's just like Ron Dayne. Watson is arguable, but I think we will be able to get a solid DT later in the draft. And Mathias is a better player than Watson. larry fitz, michael clayton, roy williams, anquan bolden, randy moss. not that it's that important, i still believe in taking the bpa, which was chad jackson. i have a strong conviction you would agree with me had we taken him instead. it's ok to disagree with the gm, it doesnt make you any less of a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 No...Jackson was hands down the BPA....an argument could be made for Jimmy Williams, Demeco Ryans or Winston Justice.....not Kiwi... Jackson has the size, speed, hands and production in College that shows that he was, without a doubt, the most talented player left... This was not a case of the best player available, did not fill a need....hell, it wasn't even a good pick for the future seeing as we already have tuck.....it was just a miserable, terrible, horrible, no good, very bad pick.... Ok, who do I think knows more about football, you or Tom Coughlin. It's close but I'm sorry, Ill have to go w/ TC on this one. Here is his take: Tom Coughlign after Giants 2006 first round draft selection Mathias Kiwanuka April 29, 2006 We’re excited about this pick. It’s truly a valuable pick at this point. Picking 32nd, you know we traded down and got extra picks. We had a group of players that we really liked and from that group, without a doubt, he’s the highest rated player and we’re excited because of 11.5, 11.5 and 9.5. Those were his sacks over the last 3 years. Everyone was aware of the fact that this year he was injured for a little bit. But you’re talking about a quality, quality football player. A quality young man, a two-time captain who played and performed well in the first year that Boston College was in the ACC. The ability to put pressure on the quarterback is a paramount need on any football team. We just felt that this particular individual was very good at that and with the combination of the players that we have, this will again allow us to continue to fortify our defense. Q: Ernie said he wouldn’t have made this pick if he didn’t think he would see the field right away. How is that possible? A: Scheme-wise we can arrange that. And we’ll work on that at this point. I think right away, when you have a young man with this kind of talent, you’re talking about all the second-and-long, third-and-long situations that are presented in our game. The personnel combinations that we might be able to utilize to create some problems with the defenses…I like of those options going forward. Q: He is a defensive end? A: He can play standing up but I think he’s a pass rusher. He’s better in that role and I think that is the spot we will start with. Q: What did you see on the tape and in his workouts that will translate to him playing on the NFL level? A: 11.5, 11.5 and 9.5. The kid can rush the passer. He’s smart, he’s aware. He has a great sense and feel for the game even though he’s relatively new to the game, so we think it’s all in front of him as well. Q: Waiting after trading down, is there any part of you that says, let’s just make this pick? A: We had lengthy discussions as we saw this thing taking place and in each of those discussions every aspect of trading down or remaining where we are was discussed. So we felt thoroughly confident in going over all the options. We had players that were available that we really liked in a section there in our minds and on the board and we thought that by picking up extra picks, we’d help ourselves down the road. Give ourselves some flexibility, who knows how we might use them but give ourselves some flexibility and still have a player of very high quality that could help our team. Q: If you didn’t make the trade would you have picked this guy at 25? A: I think that Ernie answered that question before, didn’t he? As I said, he was very highly rated on our board and in all likelihood could have been our pick right there as well. Q: Do you think you had him rated a little higher than most other teams? A: I don’t think so. We didn’t think so at all. We did a very thorough analysis. We had a large number of people evaluate him. Our scouting staff. Our coaches. The young man had very, very high grades. We discussed in our meetings each individual as we do every year, we put a final grade on him and after discussing and reading the player and talking about it with all the people in the room, the grade was a very high grade and we felt good about it. Q: Does this pick affect Justin Tuck at all? A: No I don’t think so. Tuck is one more solid, solid young football player that we are excited about. Tuck has the ability as we saw a year ago to play on the outside and the inside. Q: Is it a little surprising that you took a pass rushing defensive end when you already have two Pro Bowlers at the position? A: No, because again the statement being that this player represents the highest rated player on the board at the time we made the pick. He is a solid defensive player. You can never have too many pass rushers. Again we’ve fortified our defense. It may not have been a specific need as pinpointed prior to, but this is a guy who will pay huge dividends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lockhart Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 (edited) We'll draft a Quarterback in the third...maybe a TE or another WR! Wait, I think we need another DE...what about GM? Smart Money says EA is going for Marcus Vick. Edited April 29, 2006 by Lockhart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goliath Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Mathias Kiwaunevershouldhavebeendraftedbyus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lockhart Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 *Emm KeyWEEEEE for the sack!!!!* How about "Another First Round Bust"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrahan22_1/2 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 No...Jackson was hands down the BPA....an argument could be made for Jimmy Williams, Demeco Ryans or Winston Justice.....not Kiwi... Jackson has the size, speed, hands and production in College that shows that he was, without a doubt, the most talented player left... This was not a case of the best player available, did not fill a need....hell, it wasn't even a good pick for the future seeing as we already have tuck.....it was just a miserable, terrible, horrible, no good, very bad pick.... actually d-line is the toughest transition. at best you will see a rookie like julius peppers (maybe every 15 years a guy like him comes along) and he will put up 12 sacks. AT BEST. rookie wide receivers contribute all the time like the guys i mentioned. again, i dont see why this is relevant, because i think the strategy was to take the BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 actually d-line is the toughest transition. at best you will see a rookie like julius peppers (maybe every 15 years a guy like him comes along) and he will put up 12 sacks. AT BEST. rookie wide receivers contribute all the time like the guys i mentioned. again, i dont see why this is relevant, because i think the strategy was to take the BPA. read the coughlin interview above. obviously this is who they thought was the bpa and they've spent much more time on this than we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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