Lotta chatter about Giants wanting DE Chandler Jones

[gmenroc]

OTs are huge in setting the edge on a run to the outside. Running to the outside may very well have been more successful in the past few years for the sole fact that we'd check a OG in as a TE to help the OT set the edge. Not to mention, they need to be adept enough to push the DE up the field so that the DE can track the RB down from the back side of the play. With the athleticism of DEs nowadays, it happens a good bit.

 

Mike Adams and Jonathon Martin are being thrown around as possibly being available. Both are recognized by sources who know far more about ranking football players than we, as 1st round talent. I'll take that confidently, should the Giants make one of these guys our #1 pick.

[Balloonknot]

that's the point. The 5th best tackle prospect ISN'T going to be graded higher than Fleener. Which is what no one seems to realize.

 

And I am going to go ahead and say that 7-10 or so lineman will go before we pick. If you think that is going to be BPA, you're

 

 

While I am not a pro scout in any way shape or form to say definitive that the 5th - 7th o-line of the board wont be rated higher than the top TE prospect is foolsih. I don't know where they rank but it is entirely possible in a draft with an abundance of quality o-linemen and a massive shortage of quality TE's that the top TE would be rated higher. The TE maybe rated higher maybe won't be.

All I am saying is that Giants usually take the BPA and that might not be a TE at 32 in this Draft.

[Storm]

OTs are huge in setting the edge on a run to the outside. Running to the outside may very well have been more successful in the past few years for the sole fact that we'd check a OG in as a TE to help the OT set the edge. Not to mention, they need to be adept enough to push the DE up the field so that the DE can track the RB down from the back side of the play. With the athleticism of DEs nowadays, it happens a good bit.

 

Mike Adams and Jonathon Martin are being thrown around as possibly being available. Both are recognized by sources who know far more about ranking football players than we, as 1st round talent. I'll take that confidently, should the Giants make one of these guys our #1 pick.

 

I know what you mean, I meant to talk about how we pull guards and utilize the fullback as an edge blocker (especially during the Hedgecock years) in order to go outside to highlight the fact that we really don't go for run blocking tackles. That's not to say they are bad at run blocking, but lately we've been known to strike gold in later rounds with olineman who are pretty adept at both. Plus, not that this means anything, but wasn't Luke Petitgout the last offensive lineman we took in the first round??

[gmenroc]

I know what you mean, I meant to talk about how we pull guards and utilize the fullback as an edge blocker (especially during the Hedgecock years) in order to go outside to highlight the fact that we really don't go for run blocking tackles. That's not to say they are bad at run blocking, but lately we've been known to strike gold in later rounds with olineman who are pretty adept at both. Plus, not that this means anything, but wasn't Luke Petitgout the last offensive lineman we took in the first round??

I couldn't tell you the last OLineman we took in the first. Drafting an OT mid-round to develop to be able to run AND pass block efficiently...that's fine with me...but if we only have to coach up one of the two disciplines, and as a result, get a player that is good enough to start sooner in their career...I'm fine spending an earlier round draft pick for it.

[Storm]

While I am not a pro scout in any way shape or form to say definitive that the 5th - 7th o-line of the board wont be rated higher than the top TE prospect is foolsih. I don't know where they rank but it is entirely possible in a draft with an abundance of quality o-linemen and a massive shortage of quality TE's that the top TE would be rated higher. The TE maybe rated higher maybe won't be.

All I am saying is that Giants usually take the BPA and that might not be a TE at 32 in this Draft.

 

And all I'm saying is thatt 1. More than 5 offensive lineman go off the board in the first round before we pick. 2. Unless we're getting one of the top 3 Tackles, which won't happen because they will go in the top 10-15, any kind of lineman isn't BPA either, because they won't come in and start. We are pretty much set at guard and center, so I don't really see why a pick should be wasted on either of those kinds of lineman, even if they somehow ended up being BPA. We could use depth at tackle, but depth is a luxury that you can wait till the 2nd round for (where I'd actually like to see a tackle drafted). We need STARTERS with the 1st pick. You don't typically getting a starting offensive lineman from pick 32.

 

We could use a game changing tight end to open up the middle and GASP have 2 offensive threats at tight end AND 2 great WRs pairing with the best QB in Giants history. We could also really use a running back that is pure starting material. No offense to Bradshaw but he is a 12-16 carry a game back. Ware sucks. Scott is pretty much an unknown commodity but also a risk if you're gonna give him the second string spot, given his tentativeness and fumble last season.

[Storm]

I couldn't tell you the last OLineman we took in the first. Drafting an OT mid-round to develop to be able to run AND pass block efficiently...that's fine with me...but if we only have to coach up one of the two disciplines, and as a result, get a Gthat is good enough to start sooner in their career...I'm fine spending an earlier round draft pick for it.

 

I just don't see why it's necessary, the line is pretty much the same as it was last season, only Mckenzie is gone, Beatty is back and Diehl is prolly moving again. We signed depth, we have young talent we are and have been developing (Petrus, Brewer come to mind), where is the need? Go for one in the 2nd round and keep the development process going, it's worked for years

[Nas]

And all I'm saying is thatt 1. More than 5 offensive lineman go off the board in the first round before we pick. 2. Unless we're getting one of the top 3 Tackles, which won't happen because they will go in the top 10-15, any kind of lineman isn't BPA either, because they won't come in and start. We are pretty much set at guard and center, so I don't really see why a pick should be wasted on either of those kinds of lineman, even if they somehow ended up being BPA. We could use depth at tackle, but depth is a luxury that you can wait till the 2nd round for (where I'd actually like to see a tackle drafted). We need STARTERS with the 1st pick. You don't typically getting a starting offensive lineman from pick 32.

 

We could use a game changing tight end to open up the middle and GASP have 2 offensive threats at tight end AND 2 great WRs pairing with the best QB in Giants history. We could also really use a running back that is pure starting material. No offense to Bradshaw but he is a 12-16 carry a game back. Ware sucks. Scott is pretty much an unknown commodity but also a risk if you're gonna give him the second string spot, given his tentativeness and fumble last season.

 

I'm not sure we're set at center. Baas hasn't been up to O'hara's level and the migraines issues are huge. I feel bad for the guy because I took have those and they're a bitch to deal with let alone exert any physical activity.

[Storm]

Bradshaw came back, the rush game started getting better, the offensive line started to gel come playoffs after a long year of injuries, guys stepping up, and guys moving up and down the line. Nope. I'll stick with Baas.

[Nas]

Bradshaw came back, the rush game started getting better, the offensive line started to gel come playoffs after a long year of injuries, guys stepping up, and guys moving up and down the line. Nope. I'll stick with Baas.

 

I don't see him being a long term solution. Part of having migraines is the muscles in your skull, neck and shoulders... he's an OL and that can be a huge issue for us. No one said you shouldn't draft someone to eventually replace him.

[Storm]

I don't see him being a long term solution. Part of having migraines is the muscles in your skull, neck and shoulders... he's an OL and that can be a huge issue for us. No one said you shouldn't draft someone to eventually replace him.

 

I'll agree with that, but not with our first round pick

[gmenroc]

I just don't see why it's necessary, the line is pretty much the same as it was last season, only Mckenzie is gone, Beatty is back and Diehl is prolly moving again. We signed depth, we have young talent we are and have been developing (Petrus, Brewer come to mind), where is the need? Go for one in the 2nd round and keep the development process going, it's worked for years

 

The Locklear signing made it significantly less necessary, I'll give you that. I haven't re-mocked my original from a month ago, perhaps tonight, but I had TE in round 1, OT in round 2, and RB in round 3.

 

I wouldn't mind sticking to that, but with the signing of Locklear, I could stand to move RB up to round 2 and OT back to 3rd round. The argument for TE was lessened, to a lesser extent, by the signing of Bennett. That said, Bennett and Ballard are FA after 2012. Drafting the TE now, would create flexibility next year, and any production we got from the rookie, would be bonus. The same thought could give us DE Chandler Jones too in the first with Osi's potential departure/eventual free agency coupled with Tollefson's leaving.

 

I guess what we can all take away from the process is that the Giants are able to draft in such a way that they're drafting in preparation of what contracts are up on the current team and at the same time, reaping benefits from the players in the interim.

[Storm]

The Locklear signing made it significantly less necessary, I'll give you that. I haven't re-mocked my original from a month ago, perhaps tonight, but I had TE in round 1, OT in round 2, and RB in round 3.

 

I wouldn't mind sticking to that, but with the signing of Locklear, I could stand to move RB up to round 2 and OT back to 3rd round. The argument for TE was lessened, to a lesser extent, by the signing of Bennett. That said, Bennett and Ballard are FA after 2012. Drafting the TE now, would create flexibility next year, and any production we got from the rookie, would be bonus. The same thought could give us DE Chandler Jones too in the first with Osi's potential departure/eventual free agency coupled with Tollefson's leaving.

 

I guess what we can all take away from the process is that the Giants are able to draft in such a way that they're drafting in preparation of what contracts are up on the current team and at the same time, reaping benefits from the players in the interim.

 

I would love to see that. You're hitting a need and a position where there is likely to be a BPA somewhere in each of those rounds. There might be good offensive lineman that probably could have gone late first, early second, that could fall. And there are good RBs that won't go until the 3rd round. I think you hit the positions right where we would need to hit them to get a top prospect for each.

[gmenroc]

I would love to see that. You're hitting a need and a position where there is likely to be a BPA somewhere in each of those rounds. There might be good offensive lineman that probably could have gone late first, early second, that could fall. And there are good RBs that won't go until the 3rd round. I think you hit the positions right where we would need to hit them to get a top prospect for each.

 

I had Fleener, TE in the first; Massie, OT in the second; and Pierce, RB in the third. Could still be the way to go, but again, I'd be okay with moving RB up in draft priority.

 

The problem with moving RB up to round 2, is that I really don't see too much difference between the RBs that'd be available at the end of Round 2 and the RBs available at the end of round 3. Sure there are differences, otherwise they wouldn't be ranked as such, but those differences seem to be minimal. So in round 2, you'd be sacrificing a significant amount of value for minimal difference in talent. That's kinda my take, which is why I think that if we go RB in the first 3 rounds, it'll be the 1st or 3rd round pick that we'd use.

 

As for OT, I think we have some time to groom one, and it'd be more for depth purposes this year, as opposed to the RB who might actually see some carries given Jacob's leaving and not being replaced. So, I'd be okay moving OT to round 1 or 3 (from round 2 where I have it), but that begs the question, what do you take with the 2nd pick? So I move OT to round 1, and then have RB in round 3...what do you do with that 2nd pick? I honestly don't know about TE at the end of the 2nd round. I didn't go quite that far.

 

If we go DE/DT in round 1, OT in round 2, RB in round 3, and TE in round 4...that could be interesting too. I think there are some interesting TE projects in the mid rounds, but they'll seemingly need time to develop. If the Giants think they can get the TE up to speed to start a year from now...I would be fine taking said project in the 4th or 5th. Because really, we don't need a TE to start until next year when Ballard and Bennett are both UFAs.

[Tempest]

Glad you realize we are drafting at 32. We did pick up Chris Snee with the 34th pick of the draft a few years back, might have forgotten that one. We had the money back in 2004 to bring in McKenzie now we don't have the cash to even bring him back for a season.

 

If the BPA in your mind is based on a position, you do not understand what Best Player Available really means.

 

I do not think Coby Fleener is the best player available at 32. I think we can get a better OL, a better RB, or a better DE.

 

 

 

Because it's smarter to take the 5th best lineman....?

 

If you're at 32, it makes no sense to take a lineman when you're into 2nd round talent.

 

That's why Fleener, WR, RB, and DE all make sense. But I am vehemently against getting an offensive lineman in the first when the Giants develop line talent pretty damn well on their own. And if they hit years where they have holes, they sign a crafty veteran like Mckenzie to stop-gap for a few years. You just don't see them dropping picks on offensive lineman in the 1st. I personally think offensive lineman is probably going to be the WORST value at 32, anyway....it would be the anti-BPA.