Jump to content
SportsWrath

Some Useless Information that's Interesting (to me anyway)


BleedinBlue
 Share

Recommended Posts

The draft is coming up in a few weeks and according to the "experts", the Giants need a LB, RB, TE, and Offensive Line help as well as some additional depth in the defensive backfield and possibly a WR if a decent one is still on the board.

 

Of course this information is totally useless because no one ever knows who will be left on the board at the 32nd pick for the Giants. If a top 10 or 15 projected stud falls through the cracks, the Giants are liable to snap him up (ala Prince Akamura, JPP, etc.) even if there is not a heavy need at that position. Still....it's something to get excited about.

 

So anyway...I went through and read over 100 mock drafts to see what the "experts" think the Giants are going to do. It was a tedious job to say the least and I put the results on Excel for my own benefit. There were 30 different players chosen by over 100 people suggesting whom the Giants were apt to take in the first round. Here are the results followed by the number of mocks that chose the player:

 

TE Coby Fleener - 22

OT Mike Adams - 14

ILB Dont'a Hightower - 8

RB Doug Martin - 8

OT Jonathon Martin - 7

OG/OT Kelechi Osemele - 6

RB Lamar Miller - 6

OLB Zach Brown - 5

C Peter Konz - 4

DT Jerel Worthy - 3

OG Cordy Glen - 3

S Mark Barron - 2

TE Dwight Allen - 2

LB Bobby Wagner - 2

DT Fletcher Cox - 2

DT Devon Still - 2

RB David Wilson - 2

TE Orsen Charles - 2

LB David Labonte - 1

DT Nick Perry - 1

OG Amini Silatulo - 1

WR Kendall Wright - 1

RB Chris Polk - 1

WR Stephen Hill - 1

OLB Courtney Upshaw - 1

WR Dwight Jones - 1

DE Whitney Mercillus - 1

DE Vinny Curry - 1

OT Zerby Sanders - 1

Best Available Player (not QB or K) - 1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice work Bleedin. I think I'd be happy with any of the top four on the list, though I really think Fleener will be off the board by then. I saw someone saying RB Martin was basically a clone of Ray Rice, which would be nice but I really want ILB Hightower to put the MLB question to bed, finally.

 

Weird that 2 people though S Barron would fall all the way to us. Most have him going top 10.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice work Bleedin. I think I'd be happy with any of the top four on the list, though I really think Fleener will be off the board by then. I saw someone saying RB Martin was basically a clone of Ray Rice, which would be nice but I really want ILB Hightower to put the MLB question to bed, finally.

 

Weird that 2 people though S Barron would fall all the way to us. Most have him going top 10.

 

Personally, I don't see the Giants taking a TE in the first round. Of course, I've been wrong before - often in fact when it comes to guessing the strategy of the front office on draft day. Since they signed Martellus Bennett, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Although....if they pickup a TE in the first three rounds, I think we can finally say "bye bye" to Beckum.

 

Seems to me that the front office has a hardon for defensive linemen and if a stud DE or DT is sitting there, it wouldn't surprise me a bit they'd grab him. I think there's about a 50:50 chance that this is Osi's last year and if we lose Tolly (which it looks like we might and that will be a huge loss IMO - he's a great unsung role player), we need another DE and Giants like great DE's, not scrubs.

 

I also think that the front office refuses to burn a first rounder on an offensive lineman and would rather pick up a guy later in the rounds and develop a guy with potential and let him work his way onto the line in 2 or 3 years.

 

I would be surprised if they grabbed a RB in the first round....although with Jacobs gone and Brown stepping in legal shit and probably gone, we could use one. And I agree that anyone who runs like Rice would be a steal. I saw him when he played for Rutgers and he was a monster. Totally unrelated, I took a group of Cornell and Rutger students on a wine tour last year and one of the guys lamented that Rutgers is the only university in history to turn down an invitation to the Ivy League about a hundred years ago...I never knew that....and it made me laugh, What a mistake they made, but I digress.

 

I also agree that Hightower would put a smile on my face that would require a surgeon to remove. Since linebackers don't usually fly off the board in the first round (especially those who play "Mike") and Hightower played in the 4-3 formation. When he came to Alabama he was considered a "freak who could play any position" (ala JPP) and is a scholar of the game who spends all his free time studying tapes and getting coached. He tore his ACL in 2009 and seems to be fully recovered and because of it, he is liable to fall to late first round, early second round (so say the "experts"). Regardless...I'd like to see him in Giants blue!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not big on HIghtower, he is not a fit for us. If we went first round LB, I would rather have Lavonte David LB from Nebraska. I believe we get one in round two though, I like Mychal Kendricks ILB from CAL. He can blitz,drop into coverage and stuff the run, plus he is blazing fast . Hightower is more of a downhill thumper, he is better off has a Mike or Sam in the 3-4.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up57r7JLMmY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLBAA5F6EEA7BA52C1

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA3_XaOOIiA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am surprised Bobby Massie OT is not on your list, that's the one I have been seeing lately, Massie or Adams, I agree I don't think we go RB first round, we might look at someone like Pierce in round three, I would like Martin though, over Miller or Wilson, if we did go first round back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you can take it to the bank that the Giants will take the best player left on the board that didn't get picked yet. They never seem to go for a "need" pick in the first round....at least not since Reese came on board. I like the fact that Coughlin spends hours at the combine getting to know all the players working out rather than relying totally on scouting info. He knows a gem when he sees one (hence the JPP pick). It all depends on whose left on the board. After the first round is over, they'll start addressing needs....IMHO!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you can take it to the bank that the Giants will take the best player left on the board that didn't get picked yet. They never seem to go for a "need" pick in the first round....at least not since Reese came on board. I like the fact that Coughlin spends hours at the combine getting to know all the players working out rather than relying totally on scouting info. He knows a gem when he sees one (hence the JPP pick). It all depends on whose left on the board. After the first round is over, they'll start addressing needs....IMHO!

 

I think so too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would be more interesting is if you also went back and looked at 100 mock drafts from the past few years and see how many got our pick correct.

 

 

 

Get to work dude.

It might be interesting, but those figures are not going to be put together by me!

 

I think most mocks had us taking JPP and Hakeem Nicks in the past few years. I think Philips was a surprise that he fell to us. Prince Amakamura was definitely a big surprise and wasn't in anyone's mock draft. Kiwi was also a shocker and on no one's mock.

 

You have to take into consideration that Reese changed things so history is pretty much a moot point.

 

One historical fact is that the Giants have not taken a RB in the first round in 12 years and got burned by Ron Dayne. 17 years ago was the other RB in the past 20 years in Wheatley. The Giants have done really, really well in getting RB's in later rounds. It's a "plug and play" position anymore and the success of a running back has more to do with the offensive line than the skill set of a back. They are all fast, strong, and quick turning. Get one with a lot of heart and things usually work out. Besides....if you haven't noticed....the Giants are a "throwing team" now. I'd be less surprised to see us grab a star WR in the first round than a RB.

 

A fact that means next to nothing is that the Giants have taken a defensive player 13 times in the past 20 years. Giants seem to like their high cost players to be on the defensive side of the ball (QB excepting!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The draft is coming up in a few weeks and according to the "experts", the Giants need a LB, RB, TE, and Offensive Line help as well as some additional depth in the defensive backfield and possibly a WR if a decent one is still on the board.

 

Of course this information is totally useless because no one ever knows who will be left on the board at the 32nd pick for the Giants. If a top 10 or 15 projected stud falls through the cracks, the Giants are liable to snap him up (ala Prince Akamura, JPP, etc.) even if there is not a heavy need at that position. Still....it's something to get excited about.

 

So anyway...I went through and read over 100 mock drafts to see what the "experts" think the Giants are going to do. It was a tedious job to say the least and I put the results on Excel for my own benefit. There were 30 different players chosen by over 100 people suggesting whom the Giants were apt to take in the first round. Here are the results followed by the number of mocks that chose the player:

 

TE Coby Fleener - 22

OT Mike Adams - 14

ILB Dont'a Hightower - 8

RB Doug Martin - 8

OT Jonathon Martin - 7

OG/OT Kelechi Osemele - 6

RB Lamar Miller - 6

OLB Zach Brown - 5

C Peter Konz - 4

DT Jerel Worthy - 3

OG Cordy Glen - 3

S Mark Barron - 2

TE Dwight Allen - 2

LB Bobby Wagner - 2

DT Fletcher Cox - 2

DT Devon Still - 2

RB David Wilson - 2

TE Orsen Charles - 2

LB David Labonte - 1

DT Nick Perry - 1

OG Amini Silatulo - 1

WR Kendall Wright - 1

RB Chris Polk - 1

WR Stephen Hill - 1

OLB Courtney Upshaw - 1

WR Dwight Jones - 1

DE Whitney Mercillus - 1

DE Vinny Curry - 1

OT Zerby Sanders - 1

Best Available Player (not QB or K) - 1

 

Get a life :LMAO:

 

But hey.. thanks Bleedin :WS:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an article a few months ago, after we won the Superbowl that disproved the notion the Giants only go "best player available" which, outside of the Jason Pierre Paul and Prince Amukamara selections..simply isn't true.

 

In 2007 our biggest need was a corner. We had an old ass Sam Madison, a seemingly second round bust in Corey Webster and little else. Hence why Reese tried to trade up for Revis...hence..we ended up with Aaron Ross.

 

In 2008 our biggest need was a safety. Especially after Gibril Wilson left for Oakland and James Butler was in the last year of his contract. We signed Sammy Knight that year as a small stop gap. Hence...Kenny Phillips.

 

In 2009 since Plaxico Burress decided to shoot himself..our biggest need was, you guessed it! A wide receiver!! Hence at the 29th pick in the draft we ended up with Hakeem Nicks. I guess you could argue this pick..as apparently the Giants were interested in trading up for Darrius Heyward-Bey (thank god we didn't do that) and passed on problem child Kenny Britt who was selected a pick behind us at 30 overall.

 

Reese, outside of the 2010 and 2011 NFL Drafts...does draft for need. And when he talks about those picks he will say "they represented both a need and value pick for us"

 

There, I just fucked up ya'll with some knowledge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an article a few months ago, after we won the Superbowl that disproved the notion the Giants only go "best player available" which, outside of the Jason Pierre Paul and Prince Amukamara selections..simply isn't true.

 

In 2007 our biggest need was a corner. We had an old ass Sam Madison, a seemingly second round bust in Corey Webster and little else. Hence why Reese tried to trade up for Revis...hence..we ended up with Aaron Ross.

 

In 2008 our biggest need was a safety. Especially after Gibril Wilson left for Oakland and James Butler was in the last year of his contract. We signed Sammy Knight that year as a small stop gap. Hence...Kenny Phillips.

 

In 2009 since Plaxico Burress decided to shoot himself..our biggest need was, you guessed it! A wide receiver!! Hence at the 29th pick in the draft we ended up with Hakeem Nicks. I guess you could argue this pick..as apparently the Giants were interested in trading up for Darrius Heyward-Bey (thank god we didn't do that) and passed on problem child Kenny Britt who was selected a pick behind us at 30 overall.

 

Reese, outside of the 2010 and 2011 NFL Drafts...does draft for need. And when he talks about those picks he will say "they represented both a need and value pick for us"

 

There, I just fucked up ya'll with some knowledge.

 

 

I said the same thing before too, here is the article http://www.footballnation.com/content/new-york-giants-inside-look-gm-reeses-draft-philosophy/13877/2/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an article a few months ago, after we won the Superbowl that disproved the notion the Giants only go "best player available" which, outside of the Jason Pierre Paul and Prince Amukamara selections..simply isn't true.

 

In 2007 our biggest need was a corner. We had an old ass Sam Madison, a seemingly second round bust in Corey Webster and little else. Hence why Reese tried to trade up for Revis...hence..we ended up with Aaron Ross.

 

In 2008 our biggest need was a safety. Especially after Gibril Wilson left for Oakland and James Butler was in the last year of his contract. We signed Sammy Knight that year as a small stop gap. Hence...Kenny Phillips.

 

In 2009 since Plaxico Burress decided to shoot himself..our biggest need was, you guessed it! A wide receiver!! Hence at the 29th pick in the draft we ended up with Hakeem Nicks. I guess you could argue this pick..as apparently the Giants were interested in trading up for Darrius Heyward-Bey (thank god we didn't do that) and passed on problem child Kenny Britt who was selected a pick behind us at 30 overall.

 

Reese, outside of the 2010 and 2011 NFL Drafts...does draft for need. And when he talks about those picks he will say "they represented both a need and value pick for us"

 

There, I just fucked up ya'll with some knowledge.

 

You know in the back of my mind I always thought this BPA available theory is just that.. a theory... However, it's just not as black and white as some would like it to be.. need trumps anything else but at the end of the day if you have a player who you think is just too hard to pass on, then you for it.. once can argue that as of late the Giants have in fact embraced BPA over need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know in the back of my mind I always thought this BPA available theory is just that.. a theory... However, it's just not as black and white as some would like it to be.. need trumps anything else but at the end of the day if you have a player who you think is just too hard to pass on, then you for it.. once can argue that as of late the Giants have in fact embraced BPA over need.

 

I think it all depends. There is always a "need" position, no matter what team you're talking about. And when there is no superstud sitting on the board, and all the players are rated good....then you go for a need pick. But in the case of the Giants, they couldn't resist when they saw a JPP and Prince sitting on the board even though we didn't have a desparate need at those positions....especially DE when we drafted JPP.

 

I'll never forget a few years back when we announced to the world that we absolutely had to have a DT in the first round. There were 3 stud DTs, 1 rated above average DT, a 1 DT that had the body of a good DT, but had motivation problems. By the time it got to the Giants, only the last one was available and everyone breathed a sigh of relief that we were able to get DT William Joseph in the first round. It was a "need pick" and we filled the "need"....or so we thought at the time. There were still plenty of stud players on the board that would fill other positions on the team, but come hell or high water, we were going to burn that first pick on a DT because that was our immediate need.

 

I think the front office learned their lesson after the Joseph debacle. "Need" players can be picked up in free agency after the last cut when there are some veterans released that still have a little gas in the tank. Rookies are rarely game changers in that first year.

 

On the other hand, the Giants also burned a first rounder on the BPA in 2000 when they took it on the chops by signing Ron Dayne. So grabbing the BPA isn't always going to work either. A lot of people thought we were taking a huge risk when we grabbed JPP. Had the rest of the teams realized how he would end up playing for the Giants, there is no way on earth he would have still been on the board. That's where TC doing his homework at the combine and studying every single player in depth comes into play. Not many head coaches bother spending time at the combines, while TC spends every second of his time there while it's going on.

 

In the end, we have to trust that the Reese/TC combo have done their homework and know the difference between the players well enough to make a smart decision. First and second round picks are very, very expensive players and it's a bit of a crapshoot. We got burned bad with Dayne and Joseph, but we've done better than a few other teams when it comes to hitting the right player. Just gotta trust the front office on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an article a few months ago, after we won the Superbowl that disproved the notion the Giants only go "best player available" which, outside of the Jason Pierre Paul and Prince Amukamara selections..simply isn't true.

 

In 2007 our biggest need was a corner. We had an old ass Sam Madison, a seemingly second round bust in Corey Webster and little else. Hence why Reese tried to trade up for Revis...hence..we ended up with Aaron Ross.

 

In 2008 our biggest need was a safety. Especially after Gibril Wilson left for Oakland and James Butler was in the last year of his contract. We signed Sammy Knight that year as a small stop gap. Hence...Kenny Phillips.

 

In 2009 since Plaxico Burress decided to shoot himself..our biggest need was, you guessed it! A wide receiver!! Hence at the 29th pick in the draft we ended up with Hakeem Nicks. I guess you could argue this pick..as apparently the Giants were interested in trading up for Darrius Heyward-Bey (thank god we didn't do that) and passed on problem child Kenny Britt who was selected a pick behind us at 30 overall.

 

Reese, outside of the 2010 and 2011 NFL Drafts...does draft for need. And when he talks about those picks he will say "they represented both a need and value pick for us"

 

There, I just fucked up ya'll with some knowledge.

 

So we have a 60:40 split for 'Need' vs 'BPA'. If he goes BPA again this year it will be three years in a row. I think we could safely call that a "trend", with his first few drafts spent shaping the team to his wants. It's not black & white though; if there's not a value pick at a position of need you make a BPA choice...and what Reese and the analysts view as "needs" will often differ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this Need vs. BPA discussion is why Fleener is there for the Giants in most mocks. If still there at 32, he could be argued as the BPA and at the same time, fill a need.

 

Now, I've read reports that Beckum is set to be okay by the regular season. If he's there, and Bennett is there...the need for a TE is much less than previously thought. That said, I think Ballard is signed for just one more year, Bennett is signed for only a year...so if you're thinking long term, TE will be a big need next offseason. Drafting Fleener this year would give greater flexibilty next offseason.

 

OT is also sketchy right now. Beatty coming off injury, Brewer being relatively unknown, Diehl starting to show a little age, and McKenzie not being resigned...leads to a fairly large question mark. Now, I've seen McKenzie hasn't been signed by anyone, let alone us. I'd not be opposed to him coming back for a year or two at vet minimum...just for assurance purposes. He could easily be cut in favor of an upcoming rookie draft pick, be it a guy we get this year or be it Brewer.

 

RB, we need to draft someone with Jacobs' leaving. I don't know that Scott or Ware is ready for the increase in carries. Neither instills much confidence...in me anyhow. Scott only has a season under his belt, so I think he should still get some touches this season, but there's definitely a need here. I don't believe this to be so crucial as to spend our first rounder on it, but top 3 rounds for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this Need vs. BPA discussion is why Fleener is there for the Giants in most mocks. If still there at 32, he could be argued as the BPA and at the same time, fill a need.

 

Now, I've read reports that Beckum is set to be okay by the regular season. If he's there, and Bennett is there...the need for a TE is much less than previously thought. That said, I think Ballard is signed for just one more year, Bennett is signed for only a year...so if you're thinking long term, TE will be a big need next offseason. Drafting Fleener this year would give greater flexibilty next offseason.

 

OT is also sketchy right now. Beatty coming off injury, Brewer being relatively unknown, Diehl starting to show a little age, and McKenzie not being resigned...leads to a fairly large question mark. Now, I've seen McKenzie hasn't been signed by anyone, let alone us. I'd not be opposed to him coming back for a year or two at vet minimum...just for assurance purposes. He could easily be cut in favor of an upcoming rookie draft pick, be it a guy we get this year or be it Brewer.

 

RB, we need to draft someone with Jacobs' leaving. I don't know that Scott or Ware is ready for the increase in carries. Neither instills much confidence...in me anyhow. Scott only has a season under his belt, so I think he should still get some touches this season, but there's definitely a need here. I don't believe this to be so crucial as to spend our first rounder on it, but top 3 rounds for sure.

 

I think TE is a position of need, even with Beckum coming back from injury. And with Bennett, I don't see what's the big deal with him. I think people are going to be highly dissapointed. I honestly don't understand where this "Bennett is a great Blocking TE' came from... But it wasn't from the Cowboys coaching staff. In fact, Bennett was the main reason why the cowboys stop using the the double TE set.

 

I'm hoping Pope can do something with Bennett... But I wouldn't bet the farm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think TE is a position of need, even with Beckum coming back from injury. And with Bennett, I don't see what's the big deal with him. I think people are going to be highly dissapointed. I honestly don't understand where this "Bennett is a great Blocking TE' came from... But it wasn't from the Cowboys coaching staff. In fact, Bennett was the main reason why the cowboys stop using the the double TE set.

 

I'm hoping Pope can do something with Bennett... But I wouldn't bet the farm.

 

The Giants got him as an insurance.. we currently don't have a TE on the roster besides Pascoe... and there's a good chance Fleener may not be there when we pick. If Fleener is there, odds on the Giants draft him unless there's some stud OT which I think is unlikely given Fleener's value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...