Playoff Heroes

[Allstarjim]

As for the game, wow, that was the most complete game I think I've seen the Giants play since they dominated the Seahawks in the regular season a couple of years ago... when even Sinorice Moss got a TD.

 

The only guys I thought the Giants won in spite of their play was the two OT's and Tynes. Both Diehl and McKenzie had trouble with Abraham, who gives a lot of tackles trouble. Eli made a lot of plays by just avoiding the rush, even when the blocking was subpar around him. There were a few holding penalties, I know there was at least one by Diehl, and Atlanta was getting away with the same stuff the whole game (what else is new).

 

And Perry Fewell deserves a game ball. Feels strange for me to type that. But Tree is correct, he has totally abandoned the things that weren't working earlier in the year. The team is playing more man than they did earlier, they are more aggressive, particulary on third downs, and you just don't see the 3 man rush at all anymore. That is a big key. I really believe we lost at least two games this year because of the 3 man rush.

 

It helps that the Giants are getting pressure with 4.

 

Nobody mentioned Rocky Bernard, who himself played great. The DT's were a force in the middle and just kept pushing that Atlanta line back. And JPP once again played tremendous. Literally everyone on that defense deserves a pat on the back for how they played. I could just run down the entire list of defensive players and give them a kudos for things they did in that game. That was a special game to watch.

 

One more thing, if Corey Webster isn't a top 5 CB in the NFL I'd like to know who are the 5 CB's better than him. I'll grant Revis, but Webby has been phenomenal all year, while covering the opposing team's top receiver all year. He should be a pro bowler. To me, he's at least as good as Woodson, and DEFINITELY better than Carlos Rogers, who gets more hype. I still think Nnamdi is a great corner but Webster had the better year. Jonathan Joseph you could definitely say is better. But for my money, Webster is the best in the NFC, and he's definitely a top 5 CB in the NFL.

[hlb37]

This is not a knock on diehl at all. He' done fine overall. I think I'm been realistic here. Boothe would be a much cheaper option for them and after watching us offload seubert and o hara last year, he might be the next one to go. I tend to think mc kenzie is a safer bet to be on the roster next year.

 

I read an article last summer that described Diehl's contract as kind of tier thing. He gets paid a lot more for playing left tackle than he does at any other spot on the line.

 

He also gives us a lot more flexability than McKenzie because he can play guard or tackle on the right or left if needed.

 

I actually think McKenzie is more likely to be odd man out

 

this is from RotoWorld sourcing a July article from the BErgen Record

 

 

According to the Bergen Record, the Giants have informed David Diehl that he's moving to left guard with Will Beatty moving into the starting lineup at left tackle.

The switch will also cost Diehl $750,000 due to a clause in his contract that lowers his salary if moved off tackle. Diehl was already slipping inside at times last season with Shawn Andrews at tackle, so this is hardly a surprise. The pressure is on Beatty, who failed to beat out Diehl last season. The Giants offensive line will be Beatty, Diehl, David Baas, Chris Snee and Kareem McKenzie from left to right.

Jul 28 - 11:31 AM

Source:

Bergen Record

[Allstarjim]

McKenzie will be a 33 year old free agent this off season. I could see Diehl moving to McKenzie's spot at RT next season and seeing how that works. Diehl has 2 more years remaining on his contract. Both Boothe and Petrus now are proven quality players at Guard. I wouldn't expect any draft picks to be spent on offensive line, perhaps a young LT to provide insurance for Beatty... and I expect a mid-tier RT to be signed in free agency to provide insurance if Diehl doesn't work out at RT. But I think it's highly likely Diehl moves to RT next year. And no, I didn't forget about Brewer, but until he is at least getting some playing time, I won't be certain the coaching staff has him in any future plans... he has to progress and earn it.

[gmenroc]

McKenzie will be a 33 year old free agent this off season. I could see Diehl moving to McKenzie's spot at RT next season and seeing how that works. Diehl has 2 more years remaining on his contract. Both Boothe and Petrus now are proven quality players at Guard. I wouldn't expect any draft picks to be spent on offensive line, perhaps a young LT to provide insurance for Beatty... and I expect a mid-tier RT to be signed in free agency to provide insurance if Diehl doesn't work out at RT. But I think it's highly likely Diehl moves to RT next year. And no, I didn't forget about Brewer, but until he is at least getting some playing time, I won't be certain the coaching staff has him in any future plans... he has to progress and earn it.

 

If Beatty can see out of his one eye, than sure, your plan may work. I'm not certain he makes it back. Haven't heard anything from him since his surgery. Diehl has been more valuable to our line than many like to admit. His flexibility from G to LT to G to RT is impressive, as is his durability. McKenzie's best days are behind him though I think. Unless he wants to sign a 1 or 2 year deal, 3 tops, he'll be riding off into the sunset I think. Regardless of McKenzie's situation, I have to disagree with you about the draft. I think we need to get a OT. Whether it's RT or LT, I don't care given Diehl's ability, but I think we need to keep the line fresh with new, younger talent. I'm not talking 1st rounder here, but I think it's important we use at least a 3rd on an OT. I'm hoping for LB, OT, RB, and TE in the first 4 rounds, again with the OT being no later than the 3rd.

[Allstarjim]

Well, I don't think it's abnormal that we haven't heard anything about Beatty since the surgery. He's on IR so the whole team and media has moved on with the players that are there and with the playoffs here, it's a non-story until training camp, really. I did remember reading something about Beatty being expected to make a full recovery, though. Detached retina, although I'm not a doctor, doesn't equate to permanent blindness in that eye. So we'll see.

 

One thing you are ignoring about Diehl is that he sucked out loud at Guard. Flexibility or not, he stinks on the interior. Not serviceable, not he had a couple of bad games... he was a turnstile... he was atrocious, he was not an NFL caliber guard. I do think he's a fairly good tackle. Good enough to start. But he is by no means going to be confused with a Pro Bowler at that position, either. I like DD. I think he works hard and plays hard. That's why I think they should pencil him in at RT next year. I agree with you on McKenzie. I think he probably goes elsewhere next year or retires.

 

As far as the draft, however, I think you go in to the season with Beatty, Boothe, Baas, Snee, and Diehl as your O-line. I did say that I think they should sign a RT in free agency, someone that can start if something happens. It would provide insurance for both Beatty and Diehl. If Beatty gets hurt, Diehl would move back to LT and player X would start at RT. If Diehl gets hurt, he steps right in on the right side. Plus there's Brewer, we'll see what happens with Tony Ugoh, he could be back, and maybe Stacy Andrews as well. I don't see the need to draft someone this year, however. I do think that if Brewer doesn't make big strides by this time next year, you have to go in to the draft thinking you need to draft your RT of the future somewhere in the first 3 rounds. But next year, they'll be fine with the horses they have and an addition or two in free agency for depth.

 

I pretty much agree with your assessment of what you would like to see in the draft. I would like LB round 1, RB round 2, and get a TE and WR in rounds 3 and 4. I would like the Giants to somehow get 2 2nd round picks or 2 3rd round picks. There are definite ways to make that happen but that talk is for after the season is over.

[Treehugger]

"Complete" games don't start Punt, Punt, Punt, Safety. We can be much better.

[Steitzenhaus]

As for the game, wow, that was the most complete game I think I've seen the Giants play since they dominated the Seahawks in the regular season a couple of years ago... when even Sinorice Moss got a TD.

 

The only guys I thought the Giants won in spite of their play was the two OT's and Tynes. Both Diehl and McKenzie had trouble with Abraham, who gives a lot of tackles trouble. Eli made a lot of plays by just avoiding the rush, even when the blocking was subpar around him. There were a few holding penalties, I know there was at least one by Diehl, and Atlanta was getting away with the same stuff the whole game (what else is new).

 

And Perry Fewell deserves a game ball. Feels strange for me to type that. But Tree is correct, he has totally abandoned the things that weren't working earlier in the year. The team is playing more man than they did earlier, they are more aggressive, particulary on third downs, and you just don't see the 3 man rush at all anymore. That is a big key. I really believe we lost at least two games this year because of the 3 man rush.

 

It helps that the Giants are getting pressure with 4.

 

Nobody mentioned Rocky Bernard, who himself played great. The DT's were a force in the middle and just kept pushing that Atlanta line back. And JPP once again played tremendous. Literally everyone on that defense deserves a pat on the back for how they played. I could just run down the entire list of defensive players and give them a kudos for things they did in that game. That was a special game to watch.

 

One more thing, if Corey Webster isn't a top 5 CB in the NFL I'd like to know who are the 5 CB's better than him. I'll grant Revis, but Webby has been phenomenal all year, while covering the opposing team's top receiver all year. He should be a pro bowler. To me, he's at least as good as Woodson, and DEFINITELY better than Carlos Rogers, who gets more hype. I still think Nnamdi is a great corner but Webster had the better year. Jonathan Joseph you could definitely say is better. But for my money, Webster is the best in the NFC, and he's definitely a top 5 CB in the NFL.

 

One of the most underrated players in the league.

[Treehugger]

And Perry Fewell deserves a game ball. Feels strange for me to type that. But Tree is correct, he has totally abandoned the things that weren't working earlier in the year. The team is playing more man than they did earlier, they are more aggressive, particulary on third downs, and you just don't see the 3 man rush at all anymore. That is a big key. I really believe we lost at least two games this year because of the 3 man rush.

 

It helps that the Giants are getting pressure with 4.

 

That's the thing, he's not just relying on the front four all game but has also been throwing in a LOT more blitzes. I even saw a double-barrel blitz (LB & S) on Sunday.

[gmenroc]

Well, I don't think it's abnormal that we haven't heard anything about Beatty since the surgery. He's on IR so the whole team and media has moved on with the players that are there and with the playoffs here, it's a non-story until training camp, really. I did remember reading something about Beatty being expected to make a full recovery, though. Detached retina, although I'm not a doctor, doesn't equate to permanent blindness in that eye. So we'll see.

 

One thing you are ignoring about Diehl is that he sucked out loud at Guard. Flexibility or not, he stinks on the interior. Not serviceable, not he had a couple of bad games... he was a turnstile... he was atrocious, he was not an NFL caliber guard. I do think he's a fairly good tackle. Good enough to start. But he is by no means going to be confused with a Pro Bowler at that position, either. I like DD. I think he works hard and plays hard. That's why I think they should pencil him in at RT next year. I agree with you on McKenzie. I think he probably goes elsewhere next year or retires.

 

As far as the draft, however, I think you go in to the season with Beatty, Boothe, Baas, Snee, and Diehl as your O-line. I did say that I think they should sign a RT in free agency, someone that can start if something happens. It would provide insurance for both Beatty and Diehl. If Beatty gets hurt, Diehl would move back to LT and player X would start at RT. If Diehl gets hurt, he steps right in on the right side. Plus there's Brewer, we'll see what happens with Tony Ugoh, he could be back, and maybe Stacy Andrews as well. I don't see the need to draft someone this year, however. I do think that if Brewer doesn't make big strides by this time next year, you have to go in to the draft thinking you need to draft your RT of the future somewhere in the first 3 rounds. But next year, they'll be fine with the horses they have and an addition or two in free agency for depth.

 

I pretty much agree with your assessment of what you would like to see in the draft. I would like LB round 1, RB round 2, and get a TE and WR in rounds 3 and 4. I would like the Giants to somehow get 2 2nd round picks or 2 3rd round picks. There are definite ways to make that happen but that talk is for after the season is over.

 

Beatty is definitely a question mark. I'm no doctor either, but a detached retina as far as I know it, can lead to blindness. Glad to hear that you read somewhere he is expected to recover. I think at the end of the day, we agree that there needs to be some depth added to the OLine. Arguing whether that be via the draft or FA is splitting hairs. I like the idea of getting younger there.

 

I agree that Diehl had a rough going at G early in the season. I think a lot had to do with the Baas signing. Whether it was the line calls, or the unfamiliarity with the new guy...I don't know. Given the line's play towards the end of the season here, I don't want to see any experimentation or shifting, but it'd be interesting to see at least what Diehl could do at G now that they have a season working together.

 

I like the guys we have, but I also think that we need to prepare for the long term on the Oline.

 

 

 

Regarding Webster...yes he's extremely underrated.

[osi724dasack]

I havnt seen anyone underate Webster. maybe underappreciated.

 

And I wa the first to aknowledge Rocky B.

[gmenroc]

I havnt seen anyone underate Webster. maybe underappreciated.

 

And I wa the first to aknowledge Rocky B.

 

among us fans...I don't believe he's underrated or underappreciated. But when the discussion of the league's top CBs happens amongst talking heads, he's left out of the conversation more often than not.

[Nas]

Somebody who is completely flying under the radar right now is Kevin Boothe. Yesterday, every offensive lineman was penalised except him. He's been very solid since he broke in and I believe when Beatty comes back next year, we've seen the last of Diehl.

 

Correct... Booth was terrible before.. like 2 years ago.. he's settled in quite nicely.. I wouldn't be too harsh on Diehl though.

[Storm]

I don't give Jacobs much "credit" at all.

 

It's much more a factor of the offensive line, that has been shuffling players in, out, and all around on that oline, is finally gelling. The next factor would be Gilbride not making the poor dude take his 270 lb frame around the tackles every time he gets the ball. And thirdly, the resurgence or readdition, however you want to look at it, of a two back backfield. Jacobs runs so much better straight ahead, with a head of steam (no god damn delays and draws with the big fella, Gilbride!), and a fullback in front of him.

 

I absolutely loved on his big run, they sent Hynoski to the side the ball was not being run to and pulled a guard to the side was. THAT'S the kind of versatility offenses needs and what Gilbride often does not bring to the table.

 

And Bradshaw not being hurt makes Jacobs almost a legitimate NFL running back.

[JMFP]

I don't give Jacobs much "credit" at all.

 

It's much more a factor of the offensive line, that has been shuffling players in, out, and all around on that oline, is finally gelling. The next factor would be Gilbride not making the poor dude take his 270 lb frame around the tackles every time he gets the ball. And thirdly, the resurgence or readdition, however you want to look at it, of a two back backfield. Jacobs runs so much better straight ahead, with a head of steam (no god damn delays and draws with the big fella, Gilbride!), and a fullback in front of him.

 

I absolutely loved on his big run, they sent Hynoski to the side the ball was not being run to and pulled a guard to the side was. THAT'S the kind of versatility offenses needs and what Gilbride often does not bring to the table.

 

And Bradshaw not being hurt makes Jacobs almost a legitimate NFL running back.

 

I think Jacobs deserves credit....with the proper play calling, he can be very effective.

 

But, if the line can't hold up at the point of attack, he's going to be as ineffective as anyone else. Only the very best running backs can turn something positive if they are hit in the backfield. Jacobs will never be mistaken for Barry Sanders.

 

Alot of people had Jacobs as washed up.....but, a few things happened: the offensive line improved; Jacobs started to share more carries; Jacobs was run to his strengths.

 

Gilbride leaned far too heavily on Bradshaw, and when Jacobs was in, they ran him like Bradshaw.....throw in the fact that the line was not blocking for shit, and it's easy to see why Jacobs seemed to be washed up.

[Storm]

I think Jacobs deserves credit....with the proper play calling, he can be very effective.

 

But, if the line can't hold up at the point of attack, he's going to be as ineffective as anyone else. Only the very best running backs can turn something positive if they are hit in the backfield. Jacobs will never be mistaken for Barry Sanders.

 

Alot of people had Jacobs as washed up.....but, a few things happened: the offensive line improved; Jacobs started to share more carries; Jacobs was run to his strengths.

 

Gilbride leaned far too heavily on Bradshaw, and when Jacobs was in, they ran him like Bradshaw.....throw in the fact that the line was not blocking for shit, and it's easy to see why Jacobs seemed to be washed up.

 

exactly. Jacobs can't make positive plays on his own. Bradshaw and the best NFL backs, can (not that I consider Bradshaw one of the best, he's just quick enough to get out of the backfield on his own, and shifty enough to turn what is for Jacobs a 15 yard run into a gallop for the distance).

 

His success is a direct credit to the offensive line, Gilbride, and Hynoski. He's just not even close to being athletic enough for his "resurgence" to be any of his own doing.

[osi724dasack]

Jacobs scares opponents. Nuff said.

[Storm]

Jacobs scares 5'9 cornerbacks. Nuff said.

 

fixed.

 

Ya, Jacobs scares people....when he's not struggling to get out of his own way or getting ankle tackled.

[Treehugger]

McKenzie will be a 33 year old free agent this off season. I could see Diehl moving to McKenzie's spot at RT next season and seeing how that works. Diehl has 2 more years remaining on his contract. Both Boothe and Petrus now are proven quality players at Guard.

 

I'd be happy with this.