Next Season

[Storm]

I do know that the Eagles scored 14 points on plays when the Giants DIDN'T blitz. The game winner was busted zone when Herzlich didn't drop back to his spot in time, and Grant just let Cooper run by him. There were at least 4 occasions where the Giants stopped an Eagles possession/drive, when they brought the blitz.

 

They blitzed twice on 3rd downs during the final drive. The first came on 3rd and 3 and Harbor caught a short pass and got 6 yards. The second time was a third and 4 where Webster missed a tackle on Jackson. On another blitz on 2nd and 16, Avant made a shoestring catch that Tollefson narrowly missed deflecting. It was a bad throw and Avant bailed them out. The blitz worked several other times on the drive on earlier downs. But 3 times on 3rd down and an obvious passing situation they didn't blitz and Young made EASY completions. In other words, we were very close the times we did blitz, to stopping them on that last drive, and weren't close at ALL to stopping them when we didn't blitz. There was another 3rd down that I'm not counting as a blitz situation because that was 3rd and 1 and that was just Vince Young second effort on the QB sneak where we almost had him stopped again.

 

Which is it? Guys making mistakes or a bad scheme? What you just said is a case of players being put in the right spot to make a play and not doing so through a mental mistake of their own.

 

So that's 3 of the 6 third downs accounted for. 2 were blitzes that led to the same outcome---a pass to the flat, the same exact play twice. Let's hear the other 3.

[Nas]

Regarding the lack of blitzing...gotta believe from a coaching standpoint that would've exposed our young linebackers even more.

 

Had our front 4 held their own a little more or actually gotten any pressure of their own, we might have seen a blitzing LB here or there.

 

I think because our front 4 weren't holding their own that's more of a reason to blitz... rattle their QB.. and force him into mistakes. We were getting ran over anyway.. might as well blitz the fuckers.

[Storm]

So all in all, the Giants were never really burned in this game when they sent blitzers. The Eagles got a few short completions, but they never got a long play when we blitzed.

 

And how many long plays did they make otherwise? I seem to remember holding them from completing big plays all game. The 50 yarder to Desean, let's hear that one, I'm almost positive we blitzed considering they were on the 1.

[Storm]

I think because our front 4 weren't holding their own that's more of a reason to blitz... rattle their QB.. and force him into mistakes. We were getting ran over anyway.. might as well blitz the fuckers.

 

Ya, because sitting back in coverage wasn't enough to force Vince Young into making mistakes.

[Nas]

The defense had philly inside the 20with 9 minutes plus on the clock and vince young back there, and they proceeded to let the eagles have their longest drive in ten years! And burn seven minutes off the clock. No, the offense wasn't good, and no our coaching sucked. But with all that time left and at home and keep this in mind that the majority of our payroll and more of our drafting players has focused on defensive players, that unit came up short big time. So yes, I do blame them, and that's on fewell. They had a tie game at that point and they sucked except for kiwi. And storm you can call us all dopes for disagreeing with you, but that point I just made is the point in last nights game, we blitzed vick in philly, we blitzed brady, we led the league in sacks last night, so your "we're not a blitzing team" really holds no water here.

 

Keep in mind last year that the offense had 31 points on the eagles and a 14 point lead and fewell couldn't figure out a way to hold it.

 

If dom capers had our defence we'd be killing teams with the talent we have, fewell is good one week, bad the next 3.

 

Exactly... Fewel wasn't prepared.. his timid style annoys the fuck out of me.. it's like we played prevent defense.. especially that last drive that took 8 minutes and 51 seconds.

[Nas]

BTW I'm not saying that was the reason we lost. Primarily it was the offensive line, followed closely by the defensive play calling, followed closely by the 6 drops our receivers had last night. SIX.

 

This is EXACTLY my impression. But I feel our D.. the way the Giants as an organization plays.. Defense wins championships.. the OL was atrocious but Fewel's play calling killed us...

[Storm]

Yes, they proceeded to "let" the Eagles have their longest drive in 10 years.

 

They forced 6 third downs. Yes, the fact that not a single player on the field could make a play when it counted to stop the drive, and there were plenty of opportunities to do so, is on Fewell.

 

Humorous.

[Nas]

I'm actually writing the re-watch analysis

 

 

I give props to Jim for doing that... he's one of three football Gods on this board, Dog. Say what you will about Jim, Dog but he makes football discussion fun.. and his analysis is quite informative.

[Nas]

This team was dead and buried before the season by most including myself. The loss to the eagles last year was 1000% more devastating then this loss. There are several things that bother me about the loss.

 

(1) Getting punked at home and when I say punked I mean having d Jackson piss on the Giants bench and the Philly D basically making a meal out of Manning.

 

(2) Letting Philly off the hook. This could have been a devastating blow of biblical perorations and in the words of Dennis Green...."We let them off the hook"

 

(3) Anyone who questions mannings toughness or leadership skills now is an unmitigated moron and needs to fuck off. Your not a Giants fan and whats worse is you don;t know shit about football.

 

(4) The eagles have become a team of wannbe thugs and cheap shot artist's

 

(5) The Giants oline sucks balls. they can;t run block at all period end of story.

 

(6) Jacobs is finished. He cannot break a tackle.

 

(7) Baas was a waste of money when he's not hurt he's a human turnstyle.

 

(8) Six dropped passes is pathetic. embarrassing and sickening.

 

 

(9) Fewel sucks balls.

[Storm]

 

(9) Fewel sucks balls.

 

He may, but not during that game.

[Nas]

I understand that the more time we give the opposing QB, the likelier the opponent will make a play...especially with guys like Desean Jackson and Lesean McCoy.

 

I'm trying to look at it from Fewell's perspective. My D-Line is supposedly the strength of the defense. So, in a sense, we play with a 'front 4' and 'back 7' as opposed to a 'front 7' and 'back 4' to rely on the strength and cover up the weakness. Scheming so that you have numbers in areas of the field to cover individual player weaknesses seems to be the way it went. Essentially having 7 in coverage was the game plan, not so much to limit where Young could go with the ball, but to hide our weakness in pass coverage. Should Fewell have experimented a little more with rushing a corner or a linebacker or running a stunt - there I could agree because you'd be using experienced players. There wasn't any variety in the defense last night, but given the inexperience, I could see why Fewell decided to keep it vanilla. I would have liked to see a little more blitzing too, if for no other reason than to see what it took to get to Young, especially in the 2nd half after the front 4 weren't getting to Young at all. Does it take 5, 6, or do we have to send the whole house to get home? That said though, I can certainly understand Fewell's reluctance to blitz last night.

 

But gmen, that wasn't the case last night.. or DL sucked balls last night.. it's like they had too much sex over the past couple of days... in essence.. Fewel should have adjust to the DL's suckhood and proceeded to help them out with the blitz...

[Storm]

But gmen, that wasn't the case last night.. or DL sucked balls last night.. it's like they had too much sex over the past couple of days... in essence.. Fewel should have adjust to the DL's suckhood and proceeded to help them out with the blitz...

 

Because it's easy to change the entire identity of your team mid game.

[Storm]

You guys must have been watching the Steelers or Ravens play or something. The Giants have not been a blitzing team. They have a dominant front 4 of pass rushers. That isn't synonymous with "blitzing team" lol. You can't just start throwing guys at Young when that's not what your team does. The personnel we draft shows that. So not only do we not have the personnel to do that, HIS ZONE SCHEME worked ALL GAME. No one in their right mind would change that up during the most important drive of the game.

[Storm]

I'm sorry, I'll rephrase that, a good pass rushing team is not synonymous with a good blitzing team.

[Nas]

We get sacks from out front 4. That's not from blitzing. That's from them getting pressure and dominating mano a mano. Which the team is built around. You can't ask a leopard to change his spots. Making adjustments to become a team you aren't isn't at all easy, like you, Jim, and Nas seem to think, and it is damn near impossible mid game.

 

I didn't call you a dope. And there's just as many people blaming the offense as the three of you blaming the defense. But you are wrong.

 

 

The loss is on the defensive front 7 and the offensive line. Plain and simple. Last time I'm saying it. I've given you plenty of facts behind that. But keep on believing holding a team for 11 of 12 drives (keep in mind how long our offense was able to hold on to the ball....something Jim even manages to blame on the defense) is a bad defensive scheme. It's quite laughable.

 

You can't win with 10 points. Normally, you win with 3 turnovers forced, though not last night since the OFFENSE couldn't do shit with the ball.

 

The hallmark of a brilliant coordinator is knowing when to make adjustments... we have blitzed before.. and with great success.. these guys are not robots..they're well paid freaks of nature...

 

Also, their D allowed us 10 points... our D allowed 17... their D outplayed our D... we know our O sucked balls.. Ballard picked this game to have case of droopsy.. but that last drive.. the 8:51 drive.. Our D just couldn't get off the field.... blame Fewel... Hertzlich was active.. and he barely missed breaking Young's jaw with that dive on a blitz.. why not more?

[Storm]

The hallmark of a brilliant coordinator is knowing when to make adjustments... we have blitzed before.. and with great success.. these guys are not robots..they're well paid freaks of nature...

 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Who do you want to send on a blitz? Herzlich- late blitzing, first start, Greg Jones- late blitzer, Jaquain Williams- your only good coverage linebacker, Kiwanuka- maybe you could send him-he's the only one I can think of that is even halfway decent at blitzing, Rolle/Phillips-needed to help the corners out and keep the big play off the board.

 

It wouldn't have mattered anyway as was proven. The ball would be dumped out to the flat for decent gains, anyway.

[Storm]

The hallmark of a brilliant coordinator is knowing when to make adjustments... we have blitzed before.. and with great success.. these guys are not robots..they're well paid freaks of nature...

 

Also, their D allowed us 10 points... our D allowed 17... their D outplayed our D... we know our O sucked balls.. Ballard picked this game to have case of droopsy.. but that last drive.. the 8:51 drive.. Our D just couldn't get off the field.... blame Fewel... Hertzlich was active.. and he barely missed breaking Young's jaw with that dive on a blitz.. why not more?

Why not more!? THEY CONVERTED THAT THIRD DOWN! EASILY! If Herzlich hadn't been blitzing, he might have been available to help swarm the ball carrier and keep the play from getting past the chains.

[Storm]

And ya know what Nas, you're right. These guys are well paid freaks of nature. They are professionals. So for the life of me, I cannot see why a few of you are shifting the blame on to Fewell instead of the players(keep in mind, this ONE particular game). It has even been admitted by the originator of the theory behind the reason we lost this game, that, in fact, several players WERE in position to make a play on several key plays but through mental mistake or physical incapability, were not able to. The job of the defensive coordinator is to put players in position to make plays. You can't blame missed tackles, lax coverage, and good offensive play call with an offense that got hot at the right time on a freaking defensive coordinator.

 

You also can't negate the fact that the other 11 drives occurred and the scheme worked for those ones, yet you are. And obviously, you can't shut teams out. 17 points is about as good as it gets on that front. 3 turnovers is also about as good as it gets. Given that the defense was on the field often due to the offense going 3 and out the majority of their drives, I'm surprised it wasn't a LOT uglier than it was. Oh wait, no, I'm not surprised.....BECAUSE WE HAD A GOOD DEFENSIVE GAME PLAN.

[Allstarjim]

The defensive game plan, quite obviously was to run blitz on early downs to stop McCoy, which they did almost every time. That is why McCoy was held in check. Fact, we were killed on third down in that game. By the way you do know the Ross INT was forced because of a blitz, right? Young had an open receiver but chucked it up to Ross because he had no time to go through his progression. The Amukamara pick was man on man, it wasn't the result of zone. It was one on one on the outside. The third pick looked like zone and the only reason KP got that pick is because Ross got away with a P.I. But hey, you know those linebackers were all making plays in coverage, right? It's a good thing they were out there because those linebackers really made some stops in the passing game. /sarcasm

[Storm]

The defensive game plan, quite obviously was to run blitz on early downs to stop McCoy, which they did almost every time. That is why McCoy was held in check. Fact, we were killed on third down in that game. By the way you do know the Ross INT was forced because of a blitz, right? Young had an open receiver but chucked it up to Ross because he had no time to go through his progression. The Amukamara pick was man on man, it wasn't the result of zone. It was one on one on the outside. The third pick looked like zone and the only reason KP got that pick is because Ross got away with a P.I. But hey, you know those linebackers were all making plays in coverage, right? It's a good thing they were out there because those linebackers really made some stops in the passing game. /sarcasm

 

You need to go rewatch the game a third time if you think the defense had anything to do with this loss.

[Allstarjim]

8:51 minutes of that game in the 4th quarter and 7 points says otherwise.

[Allstarjim]

You know, their go-ahead TD? That had a little bit to do with the outcome.

[Storm]

Because there's not 51 other minutes in the game.

 

We scored 10 points. The single biggest reason we lost this game is on the offense. I don't need to watch the game 5 times to tell you that. You wanting to blame a defense that gave up 17 total points and forced 3 turnovers is fucking ridiculous.

 

If I were to tell you next week that we gave up say 17 points and forced 3 turnovers, what would you typically guess the result of the game to be? A win or a loss?

 

I rest my case.

[boohyah]

Yes, they proceeded to "let" the Eagles have their longest drive in 10 years.

 

They forced 6 third downs. Yes, the fact that not a single player on the field could make a play when it counted to stop the drive, and there were plenty of opportunities to do so, is on Fewell.

 

Humorous.

 

Typical Storm response, you can't just answer or respond, you have to be a dick about it. And I didn't say you called us dopes, you need to read these posts.

 

Let's realize something true here, "they" proceeded to let the Eagles have their biggest drive in 10 years, that's not made up. And if you think that none of that has anything to do with Fewell, then enough said, we can't help you. That whole defensive group flopped on that drive, and Fewell is the defensive co-ordinator, so how is he not responsible at all.

[Storm]

Typical Storm response, you can't just answer or respond, you have to be a dick about it. And I didn't say you called us dopes, you need to read these posts.

 

Let's realize something true here, "they" proceeded to let the Eagles have their biggest drive in 10 years, that's not made up. And if you think that none of that has anything to do with Fewell, then enough said, we can't help you. That whole defensive group flopped on that drive, and Fewell is the defensive co-ordinator, so how is he not responsible at all.

 

They didn't let anyone have anything. That's what I'm saying. Bringing them to 3rd down 6 times, you'd expect based on the law of averages, that one of those times, a player steps up and makes a tackle (Corey Webster's attempt on Desean Jackson was pathetic). That didn't happen, and while you would hope the defense would make one play for a stop, it didn't but I fail to see how that is Fewell's fault. He blitzed, like you guys wanted him to, that drive. And nothing I've read from any analyst or any article puts that on Fewell, either. He can't go out there and play for them, the best he can do is get his players in position to make a play, which he did. But it is just like Coughlin and Gilbride can't go out to play for the offensive line.