Top 25 Most Overrated New York Giants in Franchise History (Modern Era)

[fringe]

Pretty sure they expected baker to be a 4th receiver/punt returner. I'll remove the "way" but he exceeded expectations. Touchdown maker was from Fresno state, picked up by ESPN.

[NYG Hampton 27]

Armstead was meh.

 

I'd rather have Goff and our current guys.

Bizarre. The Giants have not had a linebacker as good as Armstead since he left.

[Mr. P]

hahah from this thread its making me think a lot of the people named are actually underrated.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I wasn't really debating that..more to the point where the Defiler said "I never want to see those names again" I kinda found that to be a little over the top...especially with a guy like Tooms and Jessie Armstead. Just my opinion though.

 

 

Nah man....I was referring to the 70's era names being thrown out there....a little before most of the guys here time.

[Storm]

Bizarre. The Giants have not had a linebacker as good as Armstead since he left.

 

Please. The guy wasn't even in Antonio Pierce's league. And you know how I feel about Pierce.

[NYG Hampton 27]

Please. The guy wasn't even in Antonio Pierce's league. And you know how I feel about Pierce.

That's nonsense. He was a force on the field. And far better than any LBer on the Giants now. But I guess 5 pro bowls for an 8th round pick is overrated.

[Storm]

That's nonsense. He was a force on the field. And far better than any LBer on the Giants now. But I guess 5 pro bowls for an 8th round pick is overrated.

 

Pierce was better. And I'd rather have Goff on the field. Sorry.

[fringe]

1319999118[/url]' post='659887']

That's nonsense. He was a force on the field. And far better than any LBer on the Giants now. But I guess 5 pro bowls for an 8th round pick is overrated.

 

I'll tell you who is overrated. 27 Rodney Hampton, that's who! 1000 yards on 500 carries.

 

 

 

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I'll tell you who is overrated. 27 Rodney Hampton, that's who! 1000 yards on 500 carries.

 

 

 

 

 

[fishgutmartyr]

Bizarre. The Giants have not had a linebacker as good as Armstead since he left.

You mean he was better than a broken-down Carlos Emmons, Brandon Short, Dhani Jones and Barrett Green? I stand corrected.

 

That's not fair. He's also better than Boley and Torbor.

 

Can we raise the bar just a tad?

[fishgutmartyr]

Pretty sure they expected baker to be a 4th receiver/punt returner. I'll remove the "way" but he exceeded expectations. Touchdown maker was from Fresno state, picked up by ESPN.

I remember reading a newspaper article right after that draft where Simms was talking about how excited he was to have 3 new talented young WRs to throw to. Those being Ingram, Baker, and Turner.

[fringe]

Oh well that cinches it.

[boohyah]

Pure crazy to think jessie armstead was overated, this is why I wonder if some people actually watch games here.

[fishgutmartyr]

Pure crazy to think jessie armstead was overated, this is why I wonder if some people actually watch games here.

Never watched a game in my life. Really. Feel better now?

 

Compare him to what we've had this past decade and Armstead will be a God. Compare him to Banks, Kelly, or Van Pelt; not so much.

 

But of course the very fact that you would imply that I'm crazy because I dared say that the untouchable Jesse Armstead might not be as good as you think proves my point.

 

I never said the guy was a bad player--look through the thread. In fact, I mentioned that I might have been so spoiled by the linebacker tradition on this team that I could not fairly judge Armstead. The truth of the matter is that he always reminded me of Byron Hunt--a guy that would have been a solid, better than average starter on another team, but nothing special.

[CrazedDogs]

Love the Armstead pick, Fish. He was a solid player, but again, another slow linebacker that made one or two big plays in his career.

 

Armstead?.... slow?!?!?

 

I remember him being fast but undersized....

[Allstarjim]

Armstead?.... slow?!?!?

 

I remember him being fast but undersized....

 

I saw Armstead make plays sideline to sideline. It's difficult to compare those 3-4 linebackers to Armstead, I think. Guys like Banks were more pass rushers. Armstead was fantastic. I don't think I would say that he was overrated, and if he played ILB in that 3-4 defense, he would've been an awesome force.

 

So this is one I respectfully disagree with Fish on, whose knowledge of the Giants' history I have utmost respect for.

[Chuck Wagon]

One of the problems with a list like this is that it really has nothing to do with the players. It has more to do with the state of mind of the fans, and the condition of the team in the league which elevates the players to an overrated status in the fans minds. We tend to overrate good players on really bad teams, and continue to do that for a few years after we get to mediocrity or good teams.

 

For instance, one of my favorite Giants of all time is John Mendenhall. Tough, played with a lot of heart, probably one of the best defensive players we had during the 70's. But if I'm honest with myself, was he as good as I thought, or was he a big fish in a small pond? Would he have made it on the Steel Curtain, the Doomsday, or even the Ram's DLine? Probably not. But I was glad he was on our team, was a damn good player, and maybe he would have made it on the same line as Merlin Olsen (Fred Dryer did).

 

So, since it's miserable around here, I figured I would give this a shot (hope you guys don't mind); keep in mind that just because someone winds up on this list, it doesn't mean they were bad players, only that fans thought more of them than what they actually played up to. In my opinion, of course.

 

The "Wills"--Our DBs for years to come, that never came, and played precious little together since both were constantly injured. Will Allen couldn't intercept a pass if it was thrown underhand and the ball was slathered in superglue. Will Peterson could catch Ints, but was better at catching concussions.

 

Kerry Collins--He was uneven, and prone to turnovers at a level that put Eli's 2010 season to shame. A very up and down player that probably would never have been praised by Giants fans like he did if he had replaced a QB that approached competent.

 

Jeremy Shockey--He wasn't a bad player for us, he was one of the better TE's in the league at his best; but fans around here had him as a HOF'er. Not even close.

 

Jim Burt--Late hit on Montana in '86: hit Hostetler low and late in '90...hmmmm. Sentimental favorite, replaced by Erik Howard?(!)

 

Doug Kotar--Our savior RB during the mid-to-late 70's. He was OK, when he wasn't injured. Which wasn't often.

 

Jesse Armstead--This one might just be me. I spent my younger years watching Van Pelt, Banks and Taylor. Armstead always struck me as a Byron Hunt--not bad, but no comparison. It might be very true that I can't realistically judge outside linebackers at this point.

 

Antonio Pierce--Had he not gotten injured against the Philadelphia cocksuckers in 2005, he might not have made this list. He was gang-busters before then, but never quite right afterwards.

 

Mario Manningham--This might change, because he's still young. But he isn't the threat that people make him out to be if he runs bad routes and takes himself out of plays in the process. He stops doing that, and he won't be overrated; because he can certainly be exciting with the ball in his hands.

 

Amani Toomer--I can hear the reply buttons clicking already, but hear me out...Amani was a fantastic #2 wide receiver. Unfortunately for us, for most of his career, he was our #1.

 

Rob Carpenter--This one is painful to admit. If you look at his stats, they scream poor to average. But for one season (1981), he was a god; and one of the reasons we finally returned to the playoffs. But I can't deny that the rest of his time with us was as an afterthought.

 

Dave Meggett--I honestly believe that Tony Galbreath did the third down back role better than him. And we've had better return men since him--just not right now. I will give him credit for doing both things well, though. He still sucks as a human being.

 

Jason Sehorn--Could have lived up to the hype had he not gotten injured. I remember him for three things: slowing down while chasing a touchdown to pull up his pants; that amazing Int against Philly in the playoffs; and the look of panic to the sidelines during that game in 2002.

 

Stephen Baker--"The Touchdown Maker." Second fiddle to Mark Ingram, which is not where you want to be as a wide receiver. A clever nickname and not much else.

 

Gary Jeter--when I was young, I used to think he was really good because he was making all these tackles. Somewhere along the line, I realized that he was making all these tackles because offenses specifically ran at him. Oh.

 

Ernest Gray--When you can catch just a little bit, you look really good when all the other wide receivers can't catch at all.

 

Brad Benson--Yep, LT of the "Suburbanites." Also the LT of some of the worst offensive lines this team has ever seen. Became our left tackle in 1979: proceeded to nearly cripple Simms, annually. Joe Morris made a living out of sweep right. Coincidence? Think again.

 

Chris Bober--Remember the panic we had when he left after 2003? Good times. Brad Benson wasn't on every terrible offensive line...

 

Mike Rosenthal--A whopping 2 full seasons as a starting RT. In his career. Inside and out of the Giants.

 

Dave Jennings--He was a punter for fuck's sake. When your punter is the sole contribution of your team to the pro bowl, then your team sucks. I had an awful childhood. We would actually brag about the great Dave Jennings.

 

Joe Danelo--Feel free to replace punter with kicker, Dave Jennings with Joe Danelo in the previous paragraph. Except his field goal average was ~59%. So he wasn't even all that great, and never made a pro bowl.

 

I'm going to stop here--some repressed memories are coming back. (I'm actually remembering Mike Friede and Gordon King right now, and I know I'm going to have trouble sleeping.)

 

 

Now...this is a list.

 

C. Wagon

[fishgutmartyr]

I saw Armstead make plays sideline to sideline. It's difficult to compare those 3-4 linebackers to Armstead, I think. Guys like Banks were more pass rushers. Armstead was fantastic. I don't think I would say that he was overrated, and if he played ILB in that 3-4 defense, he would've been an awesome force.

 

So this is one I respectfully disagree with Fish on, whose knowledge of the Giants' history I have utmost respect for.

Fair enough. The whole list is completely subjective: it couldn't be anything else. The funny part is that the only two guys that are being defended are two players I really didn't rip into--the worst I did was compare Armstead to Byron Hunt, who wasn't a bad linebacker at all. Hunt's greatest sin was being drafted to a team that already had Van Pelt and would ultimately draft Banks: he was actually a good linebacker in his own right, and may have been better than Banks in pass coverage.

 

And I committed the sin of admitting Stephen Baker wasn't a great WR, something I thought was pretty obvious, since the Giants had a pathetic passing offense during his time on the team (and before him, and after him). I mean, in the few brief moments of health he had, Mike Sherrard blew him away.

 

Brad Van Pelt played in both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses. He played 5 years in the 4-3, and was a probowler in 3 of them. I realize he's famous for being in the "Crunch Bunch" now, but he was actually better in the 4-3, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Banks was not a pass rusher...you had Taylor, Martin, and Marshall doing that. What Banks excelled at was holding the edge, and was probably one of the best technical tacklers I've ever seen. You simply did not run to his side of the field--you tried, but you failed.

 

Now I'll admit that these guys didn't run sideline to sideline much--you don't really have to when you have guys like Kelly, Carson, Taylor, etc. as teammates--but does that say as much about Armstead as it does guys like Buckley or Corey Miller?

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Never watched a game in my life. Really. Feel better now?

 

Compare him to what we've had this past decade and Armstead will be a God. Compare him to Banks, Kelly, or Van Pelt; not so much.

 

But of course the very fact that you would imply that I'm crazy because I dared say that the untouchable Jesse Armstead might not be as good as you think proves my point.

 

I never said the guy was a bad player--look through the thread. In fact, I mentioned that I might have been so spoiled by the linebacker tradition on this team that I could not fairly judge Armstead. The truth of the matter is that he always reminded me of Byron Hunt--a guy that would have been a solid, better than average starter on another team, but nothing special.

 

 

Yes Byron Hunt was like the fifth Beetle.....he was good and whenever the one of the big four needed to sit a spell he was in. Another guy similar to him was Andy Headen...now just imagine him with decent ball shoes. He was so superstitious that he played in the same ripped up turf shoes for his entire career. I guess he thought they were Ruby Slippers or something.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Fair enough. The whole list is completely subjective: it couldn't be anything else. The funny part is that the only two guys that are being defended are two players I really didn't rip into--the worst I did was compare Armstead to Byron Hunt, who wasn't a bad linebacker at all. Hunt's greatest sin was being drafted to a team that already had Van Pelt and would ultimately draft Banks: he was actually a good linebacker in his own right, and may have been better than Banks in pass coverage.

 

And I committed the sin of admitting Stephen Baker wasn't a great WR, something I thought was pretty obvious, since the Giants had a pathetic passing offense during his time on the team (and before him, and after him). I mean, in the few brief moments of health he had, Mike Sherrard blew him away.

 

Brad Van Pelt played in both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses. He played 5 years in the 4-3, and was a probowler in 3 of them. I realize he's famous for being in the "Crunch Bunch" now, but he was actually better in the 4-3, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Banks was not a pass rusher...you had Taylor, Martin, and Marshall doing that. What Banks excelled at was holding the edge, and was probably one of the best technical tacklers I've ever seen. You simply did not run to his side of the field--you tried, but you failed.

 

Now I'll admit that these guys didn't run sideline to sideline much--you don't really have to when you have guys like Kelly, Carson, Taylor, etc. as teammates--but does that say as much about Armstead as it does guys like Buckley or Corey Miller?

 

 

Banks was also good at covering the tight end. All that shit you see happening with Whitten over the middle the last few years would not happen consistently against him. He would advise you to knock him off his route from the beginning by chucking him good and then staying with him stride for stride down the field. Very smart, strong and athletic ...Banks was a complete backer.

[boohyah]

Never watched a game in my life. Really. Feel better now?

 

Compare him to what we've had this past decade and Armstead will be a God. Compare him to Banks, Kelly, or Van Pelt; not so much.

 

But of course the very fact that you would imply that I'm crazy because I dared say that the untouchable Jesse Armstead might not be as good as you think proves my point.

 

I never said the guy was a bad player--look through the thread. In fact, I mentioned that I might have been so spoiled by the linebacker tradition on this team that I could not fairly judge Armstead. The truth of the matter is that he always reminded me of Byron Hunt--a guy that would have been a solid, better than average starter on another team, but nothing special.

 

I would have replied sooner only we jut got power back tonight, but looking back, using the word "crazy" was wrong. Both you and Storm made comments about Armstead, and it was a poor choice of words but wasn't directed specifically at you. I"m not an Armstead homer but I don't agree with your pick of him , he wasn't drafted high out of Miami, wasn't expected to be much more than special teams or backup, and he was thought to be small for the position. Yet whereever the ball was, he was, I don't like calling guys overated considering how hard the guy played. And I don't think comparing him to those other players is fair, he was the best we had for years. As for looking at your other picks, I think the pick of the Wills was a very good one, but I'd disagree on Manningham, I don't think he was highly rated coming out of college, and the fact he went from a first to a third rounder would seem to indicate his rating was low to begin with. I think considering he's a 3rd rounder.

 

My comment about guys not watching the games, I think overall on this board is questionable at times Fish. You've watched this team a lot longer than I have so it doesn't look too smart to to be directing that at you, but honestly I think it's not far off for others (some pretty obvious - such as guys who like to post 20 topics a day).

[Storm]

In my opinion, being overrated has nothing to do with where you were drafted. It's perception professionally.

[boohyah]

In my opinion, being overrated has nothing to do with where you were drafted. It's perception professionally.

 

So you wouldn't rate a guy drafted in the first round, higher than a guy in the 2nd round?. Because you can be overated coming out of college. You think someone like Brian Bosworth would be considered overated if he was drafted in the 6th round by Seattle?

[Storm]

So you wouldn't rate a guy drafted in the first round, higher than a guy in the 2nd round?. Because you can be overated coming out of college. You think someone like Brian Bosworth would be considered overated if he was drafted in the 6th round by Seattle?

 

Are we talking about players that didn't live up to their potential/draft selection? Or are we talking about overrated players...? It isn't necessarily true that if you're a high round draft pick and don't have an NFL success, that you were overrated....I think they are two separate ideas.....

[fishgutmartyr]

I would have replied sooner only we jut got power back tonight, but looking back, using the word "crazy" was wrong. Both you and Storm made comments about Armstead, and it was a poor choice of words but wasn't directed specifically at you. I"m not an Armstead homer but I don't agree with your pick of him , he wasn't drafted high out of Miami, wasn't expected to be much more than special teams or backup, and he was thought to be small for the position. Yet whereever the ball was, he was, I don't like calling guys overated considering how hard the guy played. And I don't think comparing him to those other players is fair, he was the best we had for years. As for looking at your other picks, I think the pick of the Wills was a very good one, but I'd disagree on Manningham, I don't think he was highly rated coming out of college, and the fact he went from a first to a third rounder would seem to indicate his rating was low to begin with. I think considering he's a 3rd rounder.

 

My comment about guys not watching the games, I think overall on this board is questionable at times Fish. You've watched this team a lot longer than I have so it doesn't look too smart to to be directing that at you, but honestly I think it's not far off for others (some pretty obvious - such as guys who like to post 20 topics a day).

Eh, the negative stuff was forgotten already. Life's too short to hold grudges, especially on the internet.

 

The funny part is your argument for Armstead is exactly why I think he's a bit overrated. He was the best linebacker we had for years, and the years beyond when he left. But where you consider that entirely to his credit, I think it speaks a bit to his competition on this team. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

It's hard to grow up watching a 4-3 with linebackers like Brian Kelly, Harry Carson, and Brad Van Pelt; watch that morph into what that 3-4 became; and see guys of the quality of Danny Lloyd, Steve DeOssie, and Byron Hunt as backups. All three of the latter group could have been starters on other teams. I mean, we had Pepper Johnson as a backup at one point--we were that strong at the linebacker position. That kind of experience makes one very critical of linebackers showing signs of being mortal.

 

Wasn't Manningham dropping into the third round about him smoking pot in college and attitude issues, and had nothing to do with his ability as a wide receiver? No matter, I couched that by saying that it was still pretty early in his career, and the things I was criticizing him about were all correctable. Again, you're equating being overrated with being a bad player--he's a good wide receiver--just not as good as some give him credit for. Now, if he was on some of those Phil Simms' teams, he'd be a legend...and geezers like myself would be comparing Nicks to him.