Top 25 Most Overrated New York Giants in Franchise History (Modern Era)

[boohyah]

Surprised not to see Shockey mentioned. And wait till Nemesis reads this and starts spazzing "HILLIARD, HILLIARD".

 

 

Sehorn would top my list.

[Herc]

i was definitely expecting sehorn

[Herc]

anyhoo im not a big fan of this list

[Storm]

Surprised not to see Shockey mentioned. And wait till Nemesis reads this and starts spazzing "HILLIARD, HILLIARD".

 

 

Sehorn would top my list.

 

I was going to say Shockey, but he was pretty decent with us. A head-case, no doubt, but he played well for us most seasons.

[boohyah]

I was going to say Shockey, but he was pretty decent with us. A head-case, no doubt, but he played well for us most seasons.

 

 

I wouldn't include Shockey either, it's just the general consensus when he was angling for a move was he was overated.

 

Shaun Williams and Omar Stoutmire. I couldn't believe how much love Stoutmire used to get because he made some hard hits. He was fucking awful. And I remember words like "I can't believe he fell this far" about Shaun Williams. Another flop.

 

Dayne going tenth in the draft is enough for him to be overated.

 

 

We had Mike Croel for a while also and he was the second coming, when he got drafted.

 

By the way, how is Fassel overated seriously?. I mean, if you don't like him that's fine but overated how, he didn't have a ton of expectations before we took him.

[Herc]

4 playoff appearances and 1 superbowl trip in 7 years with half the talent this team gives coughlin

[fishgutmartyr]

One of the problems with a list like this is that it really has nothing to do with the players. It has more to do with the state of mind of the fans, and the condition of the team in the league which elevates the players to an overrated status in the fans minds. We tend to overrate good players on really bad teams, and continue to do that for a few years after we get to mediocrity or good teams.

 

For instance, one of my favorite Giants of all time is John Mendenhall. Tough, played with a lot of heart, probably one of the best defensive players we had during the 70's. But if I'm honest with myself, was he as good as I thought, or was he a big fish in a small pond? Would he have made it on the Steel Curtain, the Doomsday, or even the Ram's DLine? Probably not. But I was glad he was on our team, was a damn good player, and maybe he would have made it on the same line as Merlin Olsen (Fred Dryer did).

 

So, since it's miserable around here, I figured I would give this a shot (hope you guys don't mind); keep in mind that just because someone winds up on this list, it doesn't mean they were bad players, only that fans thought more of them than what they actually played up to. In my opinion, of course.

 

The "Wills"--Our DBs for years to come, that never came, and played precious little together since both were constantly injured. Will Allen couldn't intercept a pass if it was thrown underhand and the ball was slathered in superglue. Will Peterson could catch Ints, but was better at catching concussions.

 

Kerry Collins--He was uneven, and prone to turnovers at a level that put Eli's 2010 season to shame. A very up and down player that probably would never have been praised by Giants fans like he did if he had replaced a QB that approached competent.

 

Jeremy Shockey--He wasn't a bad player for us, he was one of the better TE's in the league at his best; but fans around here had him as a HOF'er. Not even close.

 

Jim Burt--Late hit on Montana in '86: hit Hostetler low and late in '90...hmmmm. Sentimental favorite, replaced by Erik Howard?(!)

 

Doug Kotar--Our savior RB during the mid-to-late 70's. He was OK, when he wasn't injured. Which wasn't often.

 

Jesse Armstead--This one might just be me. I spent my younger years watching Van Pelt, Banks and Taylor. Armstead always struck me as a Byron Hunt--not bad, but no comparison. It might be very true that I can't realistically judge outside linebackers at this point.

 

Antonio Pierce--Had he not gotten injured against the Philadelphia cocksuckers in 2005, he might not have made this list. He was gang-busters before then, but never quite right afterwards.

 

Mario Manningham--This might change, because he's still young. But he isn't the threat that people make him out to be if he runs bad routes and takes himself out of plays in the process. He stops doing that, and he won't be overrated; because he can certainly be exciting with the ball in his hands.

 

Amani Toomer--I can hear the reply buttons clicking already, but hear me out...Amani was a fantastic #2 wide receiver. Unfortunately for us, for most of his career, he was our #1.

 

Rob Carpenter--This one is painful to admit. If you look at his stats, they scream poor to average. But for one season (1981), he was a god; and one of the reasons we finally returned to the playoffs. But I can't deny that the rest of his time with us was as an afterthought.

 

Dave Meggett--I honestly believe that Tony Galbreath did the third down back role better than him. And we've had better return men since him--just not right now. I will give him credit for doing both things well, though. He still sucks as a human being.

 

Jason Sehorn--Could have lived up to the hype had he not gotten injured. I remember him for three things: slowing down while chasing a touchdown to pull up his pants; that amazing Int against Philly in the playoffs; and the look of panic to the sidelines during that game in 2002.

 

Stephen Baker--"The Touchdown Maker." Second fiddle to Mark Ingram, which is not where you want to be as a wide receiver. A clever nickname and not much else.

 

Gary Jeter--when I was young, I used to think he was really good because he was making all these tackles. Somewhere along the line, I realized that he was making all these tackles because offenses specifically ran at him. Oh.

 

Ernest Gray--When you can catch just a little bit, you look really good when all the other wide receivers can't catch at all.

 

Brad Benson--Yep, LT of the "Suburbanites." Also the LT of some of the worst offensive lines this team has ever seen. Became our left tackle in 1979: proceeded to nearly cripple Simms, annually. Joe Morris made a living out of sweep right. Coincidence? Think again.

 

Chris Bober--Remember the panic we had when he left after 2003? Good times. Brad Benson wasn't on every terrible offensive line...

 

Mike Rosenthal--A whopping 2 full seasons as a starting RT. In his career. Inside and out of the Giants.

 

Dave Jennings--He was a punter for fuck's sake. When your punter is the sole contribution of your team to the pro bowl, then your team sucks. I had an awful childhood. We would actually brag about the great Dave Jennings.

 

Joe Danelo--Feel free to replace punter with kicker, Dave Jennings with Joe Danelo in the previous paragraph. Except his field goal average was ~59%. So he wasn't even all that great, and never made a pro bowl.

 

I'm going to stop here--some repressed memories are coming back. (I'm actually remembering Mike Friede and Gordon King right now, and I know I'm going to have trouble sleeping.)

[RandolphScott]

Jason Sehorn.

 

 

[Storm]

Love the Armstead pick, Fish. He was a solid player, but again, another slow linebacker that made one or two big plays in his career.

[Guest StrahansGap]

Kevin Boss

[fringe]

Stephen baker way exceeded expectation. And the touchdown maker nickname was from Fresno state, I believe, where he caught Kevin sweeneys passes

[Mr. P]

Stephen Baker was always one of my favorites when I was a kid. Partly because my uncle's name is Stephen Baker, and he used to tell me he painted himself black and played for the giants every Sunday.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

One of the problems with a list like this is that it really has nothing to do with the players. It has more to do with the state of mind of the fans, and the condition of the team in the league which elevates the players to an overrated status in the fans minds. We tend to overrate good players on really bad teams, and continue to do that for a few years after we get to mediocrity or good teams.

 

For instance, one of my favorite Giants of all time is John Mendenhall. Tough, played with a lot of heart, probably one of the best defensive players we had during the 70's. But if I'm honest with myself, was he as good as I thought, or was he a big fish in a small pond? Would he have made it on the Steel Curtain, the Doomsday, or even the Ram's DLine? Probably not. But I was glad he was on our team, was a damn good player, and maybe he would have made it on the same line as Merlin Olsen (Fred Dryer did).

 

So, since it's miserable around here, I figured I would give this a shot (hope you guys don't mind); keep in mind that just because someone winds up on this list, it doesn't mean they were bad players, only that fans thought more of them than what they actually played up to. In my opinion, of course.

 

The "Wills"--Our DBs for years to come, that never came, and played precious little together since both were constantly injured. Will Allen couldn't intercept a pass if it was thrown underhand and the ball was slathered in superglue. Will Peterson could catch Ints, but was better at catching concussions.

 

Kerry Collins--He was uneven, and prone to turnovers at a level that put Eli's 2010 season to shame. A very up and down player that probably would never have been praised by Giants fans like he did if he had replaced a QB that approached competent.

 

Jeremy Shockey--He wasn't a bad player for us, he was one of the better TE's in the league at his best; but fans around here had him as a HOF'er. Not even close.

 

Jim Burt--Late hit on Montana in '86: hit Hostetler low and late in '90...hmmmm. Sentimental favorite, replaced by Erik Howard?(!)

 

Doug Kotar--Our savior RB during the mid-to-late 70's. He was OK, when he wasn't injured. Which wasn't often.

 

Jesse Armstead--This one might just be me. I spent my younger years watching Van Pelt, Banks and Taylor. Armstead always struck me as a Byron Hunt--not bad, but no comparison. It might be very true that I can't realistically judge outside linebackers at this point.

 

Antonio Pierce--Had he not gotten injured against the Philadelphia cocksuckers in 2005, he might not have made this list. He was gang-busters before then, but never quite right afterwards.

 

Mario Manningham--This might change, because he's still young. But he isn't the threat that people make him out to be if he runs bad routes and takes himself out of plays in the process. He stops doing that, and he won't be overrated; because he can certainly be exciting with the ball in his hands.

 

Amani Toomer--I can hear the reply buttons clicking already, but hear me out...Amani was a fantastic #2 wide receiver. Unfortunately for us, for most of his career, he was our #1.

 

Rob Carpenter--This one is painful to admit. If you look at his stats, they scream poor to average. But for one season (1981), he was a god; and one of the reasons we finally returned to the playoffs. But I can't deny that the rest of his time with us was as an afterthought.

 

Dave Meggett--I honestly believe that Tony Galbreath did the third down back role better than him. And we've had better return men since him--just not right now. I will give him credit for doing both things well, though. He still sucks as a human being.

 

Jason Sehorn--Could have lived up to the hype had he not gotten injured. I remember him for three things: slowing down while chasing a touchdown to pull up his pants; that amazing Int against Philly in the playoffs; and the look of panic to the sidelines during that game in 2002.

 

Stephen Baker--"The Touchdown Maker." Second fiddle to Mark Ingram, which is not where you want to be as a wide receiver. A clever nickname and not much else.

 

Gary Jeter--when I was young, I used to think he was really good because he was making all these tackles. Somewhere along the line, I realized that he was making all these tackles because offenses specifically ran at him. Oh.

 

Ernest Gray--When you can catch just a little bit, you look really good when all the other wide receivers can't catch at all.

 

Brad Benson--Yep, LT of the "Suburbanites." Also the LT of some of the worst offensive lines this team has ever seen. Became our left tackle in 1979: proceeded to nearly cripple Simms, annually. Joe Morris made a living out of sweep right. Coincidence? Think again.

 

Chris Bober--Remember the panic we had when he left after 2003? Good times. Brad Benson wasn't on every terrible offensive line...

 

Mike Rosenthal--A whopping 2 full seasons as a starting RT. In his career. Inside and out of the Giants.

 

Dave Jennings--He was a punter for fuck's sake. When your punter is the sole contribution of your team to the pro bowl, then your team sucks. I had an awful childhood. We would actually brag about the great Dave Jennings.

 

Joe Danelo--Feel free to replace punter with kicker, Dave Jennings with Joe Danelo in the previous paragraph. Except his field goal average was ~59%. So he wasn't even all that great, and never made a pro bowl.

 

I'm going to stop here--some repressed memories are coming back. (I'm actually remembering Mike Friede and Gordon King right now, and I know I'm going to have trouble sleeping.)

 

 

 

These were all names I had repressed in a dark ....dark ....dark abyss never to be brought into the light and there you go....

[RandolphScott]

These were all names I had repressed in a dark ....dark ....dark abyss never to be brought into the light and there you go....

 

Really?

 

Amani Toomer?

 

C'mon now. From 1999 to 2002..he should have been a pro-bowler..especially in 2002 when it was only Shockey and himself catching passes from Collins.

[Mr. P]

Really?

 

Amani Toomer?

 

C'mon now. From 1999 to 2002..he should have been a pro-bowler..especially in 2002 when it was only Shockey and himself catching passes from Collins.

 

yeah, confuses me too.

[fishgutmartyr]

Stephen baker way exceeded expectation. And the touchdown maker nickname was from Fresno state, I believe, where he caught Kevin sweeneys passes

141 catches for 2,587 yards and 21 tds over SIX seasons. Were they expecting him to spontaneously combust? Those expectations had to be mighty low for those numbers to exceed them.

 

Really?

 

Amani Toomer?

 

C'mon now. From 1999 to 2002..he should have been a pro-bowler..especially in 2002 when it was only Shockey and himself catching passes from Collins.

 

2002, you might have a point...the other years? No. His next best season was 1999, when the probowlers were Isaac Bruce, Cris Carter, Randy Moss, and Muhsin Muhammad. Toomer actually got 15 more yards that year than Bruce, but half the tds. He wasn't even close to the other guys.

 

Let's put it this way. If you go to Pro Football Reference and look at similar players through 9 years (takes you up to 2004, his #1 years) you'll see these names pop up:

 

9 Steve Watson, Darrell Jackson, Carl Pickens, Terance Mathis, Derrick Alexander, Cris Carter, Carlos Carson, Gail Cogdill, Ron Jessie, Art Powell

 

ooooooooo...aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

 

Most of these guys are 1-2 year probowlers...or multiple-year probowlers in the 1960's, which isn't quite the same as now. The only exception was Cris Carter, who was a #2 behind Moss.

 

Look at all-time Giants receivers--he's got over 200 catches more than the next-closest flanker/wr, Joe Morrison. And only 7 more tds. Nicks has less than a third of Toomer's receptions, less than a fourth of his years in the NFL (190 games vs. 33), and already has damn near half his TD total, and over a fourth of his yardage. THAT'S a #1 wide receiver. Del Shofner had one less 1,000 yd season than Toomer in his career, while playing no more than 14 game seasons, and managed to get 40 tds in just those 4 years.

 

The man got yardage, but rarely found the end zone. Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons on the Giants(!) that had more TDs than that one: 2 from guys that played in the '40s, and one from Earnest Gray, for chris'sakes. Both Nicks and Manningham beat it last year.

 

So yeah, overrated. A good player for sure, but overrated.

[RandolphScott]

141 catches for 2,587 yards and 21 tds over SIX seasons. Were they expecting him to spontaneously combust? Those expectations had to be mighty low for those numbers to exceed them.

 

 

 

2002, you might have a point...the other years? No. His next best season was 1999, when the probowlers were Isaac Bruce, Cris Carter, Randy Moss, and Muhsin Muhammad. Toomer actually got 15 more yards that year than Bruce, but half the tds. He wasn't even close to the other guys.

 

Let's put it this way. If you go to Pro Football Reference and look at similar players through 9 years (takes you up to 2004, his #1 years) you'll see these names pop up:

 

9 Steve Watson, Darrell Jackson, Carl Pickens, Terance Mathis, Derrick Alexander, Cris Carter, Carlos Carson, Gail Cogdill, Ron Jessie, Art Powell

 

ooooooooo...aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

 

Most of these guys are 1-2 year probowlers...or multiple-year probowlers in the 1960's, which isn't quite the same as now. The only exception was Cris Carter, who was a #2 behind Moss.

 

Look at all-time Giants receivers--he's got over 200 catches more than the next-closest flanker/wr, Joe Morrison. And only 7 more tds. Nicks has less than a third of Toomer's receptions, less than a fourth of his years in the NFL (190 games vs. 33), and already has damn near half his TD total, and over a fourth of his yardage. THAT'S a #1 wide receiver. Del Shofner had one less 1,000 yd season than Toomer in his career, while playing no more than 14 game seasons, and managed to get 40 tds in just those 4 years.

 

The man got yardage, but rarely found the end zone. Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons on the Giants(!) that had more TDs than that one: 2 from guys that played in the '40s, and one from Earnest Gray, for chris'sakes. Both Nicks and Manningham beat it last year.

 

So yeah, overrated. A good player for sure, but overrated.

 

I wasn't really debating that..more to the point where the Defiler said "I never want to see those names again" I kinda found that to be a little over the top...especially with a guy like Tooms and Jessie Armstead. Just my opinion though.

[Storm]

Armstead was meh.

 

I'd rather have Goff and our current guys.

[RandolphScott]

There's no way that Toomer was on the roster in 2010.

 

He was drafted in 96. There's no way he spent 14 years on the Giants.

 

He retired during the 2009 pre-season.

[Storm]

He retired during the 2009 pre-season.

 

Ya, I'm sorry, I just realized it was just a typo. Should have been "players" not "seasons". 14 players have more whatevers than Toomer.

[Storm]

But personally, I think it's hard to argue that Toomer is overrated. He had who exactly to throw him the ball? Who exactly to take some coverage off him (Nem will love that one)? He put up some pretty good numbers playing most of his career with poor Giants' offenses.

[fishgutmartyr]

I wasn't really debating that..more to the point where the Defiler said "I never want to see those names again" I kinda found that to be a little over the top...especially with a guy like Tooms and Jessie Armstead. Just my opinion though.

 

I think he meant Mike Friede and Gordon King. Those were some bad players.

 

Ya, I'm sorry, I just realized it was just a typo. Should have been "players" not "seasons". 14 players have more whatevers than Toomer.

 

No, a couple of players had multiple seasons with more tds than Toomer's 2002 season. Obviously, I didn't express it clearly enough, though.

 

But personally, I think it's hard to argue that Toomer is overrated. He had who exactly to throw him the ball? Who exactly to take some coverage off him (Nem will love that one)? He put up some pretty good numbers playing most of his career with poor Giants' offenses.

 

If I were arguing that he wasn't good, then that would be hard to do. But I'm stating that he's overrated, which doesn't have as much to do with his ability as it does fan perception. For instance, if there were more Jack Strouds in the world, Kerry Collins would never make this list; but Jesse Palmer and Chase Blackburn would.

 

That being said, for most of his career Toomer had Collins and Manning passing to him; so I don't know how valid your argument would be. For whatever flaws Collins had, you could catch what he threw to you.

 

And again for the record; I thought Toomer was a good receiver, and a fantastic #2 receiver.

[Storm]

I think he meant Mike Friede and Gordon King. Those were some bad players.

 

 

 

No, a couple of players had multiple seasons with more tds than Toomer's 2002 season. Obviously, I didn't express it clearly enough, though.

 

 

 

If I were arguing that he wasn't good, then that would be hard to do. But I'm stating that he's overrated, which doesn't have as much to do with his ability as it does fan perception. For instance, if there were more Jack Strouds in the world, Kerry Collins would never make this list; but Jesse Palmer and Chase Blackburn would.

 

That being said, for most of his career Toomer had Collins and Manning passing to him; so I don't know how valid your argument would be. For whatever flaws Collins had, you could catch what he threw to you.

 

And again for the record; I thought Toomer was a good receiver, and a fantastic #2 receiver.

 

 

"Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons on the Giants(!)"

 

I'd say.

[fishgutmartyr]

"Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons on the Giants(!)"

 

I'd say.

 

"Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons on the Giants(!) that had more TDs than that one: 2 from guys that played in the '40s, and one from Earnest Gray, for chris'sakes."

 

"Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons by wide receivers in Giants history that had more TDs scored than that one: including 2 from guys that played in the '40s, and one from Earnest Gray, for chris'sakes."

 

That better?

[Storm]

"Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons on the Giants(!) that had more TDs than that one: 2 from guys that played in the '40s, and one from Earnest Gray, for chris'sakes."

 

"Toomer's best season was 2002, and there are 14 seasons by wide receivers in Giants history that had more TDs scored than that one: including 2 from guys that played in the '40s, and one from Earnest Gray, for chris'sakes."

 

That better?

 

That's an odd way of stating it. Does that make it look better than if you said there were a mere 5 players over the history of the Giants who ever beat Toomer's TDs in a season?