I would rather have Chris Simms be our starting QB...

[Guest nosebleed]

Call me crazy, I thought Simms lost to the Redskins?

 

 

Yes, you are correct, but Simms showed much more promise against Washington than Goober.

 

Is this what happens on Saturday night, posts get sliced and diced.

 

Meanwhile, it was another typical Saturday night for the Fab 4, Manhattan, fine wine and fine women.

[gateb]

Yes, you are correct, but Simms showed much more promise against Washington than Goober.

 

Is this what happens on Saturday night, posts get sliced and diced.

 

Meanwhile, it was another typical Saturday night for the Fab 4, Manhattan, fine wine and fine women.

He had one good throw.

[gateb]

His combination of anticipation skills, accuracy, and decision-making ability are a rarity. He had underrated arm strength, too ... he threw an accurate deep ball. I never understood where the "weak arm" stigma came from. His arm strength was more than accurate, and his deep ball was certainly more accurate than Eli's and many others...

I don't see where you got that accurate deep ball from. The only real accurate deep ball I remember him throwing was that incredible TD pass to Moss against SD in the playoffs. And I still have a feeling God carried that one.

 

Eli has made some very nice long passes when he's on his game. When he's off.... errr.

 

When Chad was healthy, would I have liked him on my team? Of course. But he was very, very overrated. When the stat sheet read, 19/25 219 yards and all the analysts were saying that he's a special talent, it made me shake my head. I watch everyone of his games and most of those yards came on short passes to Sowell who ran 11 yards with it, quick passes to Moss, etc. Within 10-15 yards, he is a fine QB. Outside of it, nothing special.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Pats were the first team to figure him out. They covered the short pass areas and forced him to throw past 15 yards and had success while doing so.

[torn084]

well, simms first game this season was against my fins. thomas had just sacked Griese and torn his ACL, knocking him out for the season. simms came in and made his debut. he ripped us to shreds. madison could not cover galloway at all and we lost this game.

 

and that's the end of simms highlights

 

eli is now moving into his 3rd NFl season, so he will reach most of his full potential this season. whatever eli does to prove himself will be how good he is for most of his career as a quarterback.

 

as of now, eli is better and should remain better.

[gateb]

well, simms first game this season was against my fins. thomas had just sacked Griese and torn his ACL, knocking him out for the season. simms came in and made his debut. he ripped us to shreds. madison could not cover galloway at all and we lost this game.

 

and that's the end of simms highlights

 

eli is now moving into his 3rd NFl season, so he will reach most of his full potential this season. whatever eli does to prove himself will be how good he is for most of his career as a quarterback.

 

as of now, eli is better and should remain better.

If by ripped to shreds you mean 6/10 for 69 yards then I guess he did.

[torn084]

it doesnt matter if it was 6-10. it was late in the game and we had a chance to come back and we couldnt because simms did what he did.

[Money]

I don't see where you got that accurate deep ball from. The only real accurate deep ball I remember him throwing was that incredible TD pass to Moss against SD in the playoffs. And I still have a feeling God carried that one.

 

Eli has made some very nice long passes when he's on his game. When he's off.... errr.

 

When Chad was healthy, would I have liked him on my team? Of course. But he was very, very overrated. When the stat sheet read, 19/25 219 yards and all the analysts were saying that he's a special talent, it made me shake my head. I watch everyone of his games and most of those yards came on short passes to Sowell who ran 11 yards with it, quick passes to Moss, etc. Within 10-15 yards, he is a fine QB. Outside of it, nothing special.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Pats were the first team to figure him out. They covered the short pass areas and forced him to throw past 15 yards and had success while doing so.

 

I've watched him play, even before he came to the Jets (when he played at Marshall with Randy Moss). BTW, I'm glad you mentioned that to Moss, since Chad made that throw while playing with a torn rotator cuff.

 

Very overrated? The guy never made a Pro Bowl ... how can he be overrated. He was credited as a top 10 QB for a short while and that was perfectly justified.

 

Chad also had some excellent performances against the Pats long before his shoulder became a factor. Like in 2002 when he went into Foxboro and completed his first 11 passes in a must-win game en-route to 30-17 win that ended up costing the Pats a playoff birth...

[gateb]

I've watched him play, even before he came to the Jets (when he played at Marshall with Randy Moss). BTW, I'm glad you mentioned that to Moss, since Chad made that throw while playing with a torn rotator cuff.

 

Very overrated? The guy never made a Pro Bowl ... how can he be overrated. He was credited as a top 10 QB for a short while and that was perfectly justified.

 

Chad also had some excellent performances against the Pats long before his shoulder became a factor. Like in 2002 when he went into Foxboro and completed his first 11 passes in a must-win game en-route to 30-17 win that ended up costing the Pats a playoff birth...

That's why I'm thinking God carried that pass. I don't know where that came from.

 

Before Chad got hurt the lovefest for him was unbelievable. His stats looked better because his WRs and RBs made a 4 yard pass into an 11 yard pass play making his stats look better. The amount of money he got was obsurd with that deal.

 

Chad was a top 10 QB because he got wins and managed the game very well. I think he just got too much credit. Those 11 completions actually enforce my point. I bet most of those were quick passes in the flat or 5-10 yard passes over the middle. I'm not denying his great accuracy. I'm denying his arm strength past 15 yards. It's really nothing special.

 

Here's a reason Chad never made the Pro Bowl. 2002 he didn't play a full season. 2003 he missed the first month and a half or so with a broken wrist suffered in pre-season. And from there he didn't do so good. 2004 he had that rotator cuff and also had an okay season. And 2005 he missed the whole season. That explains his lack of Pro Bowls.

[speed_kills]

That's why I'm thinking God carried that pass. I don't know where that came from.

 

Before Chad got hurt the lovefest for him was unbelievable. His stats looked better because his WRs and RBs made a 4 yard pass into an 11 yard pass play making his stats look better. The amount of money he got was obsurd with that deal.

 

Chad was a top 10 QB because he got wins and managed the game very well. I think he just got too much credit. Those 11 completions actually enforce my point. I bet most of those were quick passes in the flat or 5-10 yard passes over the middle. I'm not denying his great accuracy. I'm denying his arm strength past 15 yards. It's really nothing special.

 

Here's a reason Chad never made the Pro Bowl. 2002 he didn't play a full season. 2003 he missed the first month and a half or so with a broken wrist suffered in pre-season. And from there he didn't do so good. 2004 he had that rotator cuff and also had an okay season. And 2005 he missed the whole season. That explains his lack of Pro Bowls.

 

He got too much credit for completing short passes? Joe Montana played in a system where he rarely had to throw beyong 20 or so yards (West Coast Offense, similar to what Pennington played in under Hackett), and usually completed 10-15 yard passes to Jerry Rice, and he's widely considered the finest to ever play the position. You can't fault Pennington for what system he played in, most NFL offensive systems rely on short passing and the occasional deep pass. What you can do is marvel at the efficiency with which he ran the system, and his effectiveness as a QB. You also have to respect his toughness, and his ability to guide teams into the playoffs, when he was healthy. As for injuries, you can't fault a player for being too eager, since the team decides when to allow a player back onto the field, and in Chad's case, it's apparent they rushed him.

[Currency]

He got too much credit for completing short passes? Joe Montana played in a system where he rarely had to throw beyong 20 or so yards (West Coast Offense, similar to what Pennington played in under Hackett), and usually completed 10-15 yard passes to Jerry Rice, and he's widely considered the finest to ever play the position. You can't fault Pennington for what system he played in, most NFL offensive systems rely on short passing and the occasional deep pass. What you can do is marvel at the efficiency with which he ran the system, and his effectiveness as a QB. You also have to respect his toughness, and his ability to guide teams into the playoffs, when he was healthy. As for injuries, you can't fault a player for being too eager, since the team decides when to allow a player back onto the field, and in Chad's case, it's apparent they rushed him.

 

You have gained 17 Elite Status points from gateb.

 

- This point transfer is approved by the Elite Status Committe.

[Virginia Giant]

Wasn't that same game Eli went 16/36 for 200 yards, a TD, and an INT ?

 

Interestingly enough, he was picked off by current teammate Corey Webster.

 

LSU vs. Ole Miss (Nov 22, 2003)

Yes, but you could see what he was in that game, he didn't get flustered, he was the leader of the team, the unquestioned leader and a guy who did everything he could with what he had against the best defense in the country and the eventual National Champs.

[gateb]

He got too much credit for completing short passes? Joe Montana played in a system where he rarely had to throw beyong 20 or so yards (West Coast Offense, similar to what Pennington played in under Hackett), and usually completed 10-15 yard passes to Jerry Rice, and he's widely considered the finest to ever play the position. You can't fault Pennington for what system he played in, most NFL offensive systems rely on short passing and the occasional deep pass. What you can do is marvel at the efficiency with which he ran the system, and his effectiveness as a QB. You also have to respect his toughness, and his ability to guide teams into the playoffs, when he was healthy. As for injuries, you can't fault a player for being too eager, since the team decides when to allow a player back onto the field, and in Chad's case, it's apparent they rushed him.

I don't really think they rushed him. Because his second rotator cuff injury I believe occurred in his second shoulder. So rushing him back is really irrelevant although I do respect Chad's will to play.

 

Except Chad actually did take shots downfield more then we know. And he rarely put it right on the mark like he does on his quick passes.

[Money]

Yes, but you could see what he was in that game, he didn't get flustered, he was the leader of the team, the unquestioned leader and a guy who did everything he could with what he had against the best defense in the country and the eventual National Champs.

 

He was in that game because his defense returned an INT for a TD and kept the game close.

 

Didn't get flustered? Please....he was playing at home...

[Money]

That's why I'm thinking God carried that pass. I don't know where that came from.

 

Before Chad got hurt the lovefest for him was unbelievable. His stats looked better because his WRs and RBs made a 4 yard pass into an 11 yard pass play making his stats look better. The amount of money he got was obsurd with that deal.

 

Chad was a top 10 QB because he got wins and managed the game very well. I think he just got too much credit. Those 11 completions actually enforce my point. I bet most of those were quick passes in the flat or 5-10 yard passes over the middle. I'm not denying his great accuracy. I'm denying his arm strength past 15 yards. It's really nothing special.

 

Here's a reason Chad never made the Pro Bowl. 2002 he didn't play a full season. 2003 he missed the first month and a half or so with a broken wrist suffered in pre-season. And from there he didn't do so good. 2004 he had that rotator cuff and also had an okay season. And 2005 he missed the whole season. That explains his lack of Pro Bowls.

 

What lovefest? Don't confuse Jets fans being excited over their first top QB prospect in 2 decades with general, informed opinion. Chad was a top player at his position when he was healthy. Again, I ask how he was overrated? Because he got a big contract? Seems to me a lot of guys are overrated then...

 

Drop this "short passes" argument. Judging by your descriptions, it's clear you didn't see him play much ... or if you did, you didn't understand the dynamics of what was happening on the field.

 

But go ahead and tell us how he and Chris Simms are similar. Aside from having blonde hair...

[Plax 4 Prez]

What lovefest? Don't confuse Jets fans being excited over their first top QB prospect in 2 decades with general, informed opinion. Chad was a top player at his position when he was healthy. Again, I ask how he was overrated? Because he got a big contract? Seems to me a lot of guys are overrated then...

 

Drop this "short passes" argument. Judging by your descriptions, it's clear you didn't see him play much ... or if you did, you didn't understand the dynamics of what was happening on the field.

 

But go ahead and tell us how he and Chris Simms are similar. Aside from having blonde hair...

[speed_kills]

I don't really think they rushed him. Because his second rotator cuff injury I believe occurred in his second shoulder. So rushing him back is really irrelevant although I do respect Chad's will to play.

 

Except Chad actually did take shots downfield more then we know. And he rarely put it right on the mark like he does on his quick passes.

 

Let's take Pennington's career year, 2003, and make a breakdown of his passing numbers.

 

During 2003, he threw 89 passes behind the line of scrimmage, and he completed 71 of them. (71/89, 80% completions)

 

From 1-10 yards, he threw 147 passes, and completed 115 of them. (78% completions)

 

From 11-20 yards, he threw 96 passes and completed 61 of them. (63% completions)

 

From 21-30 yards, he threw 31 passes and completed 9 of them. (29% completions)

 

From 31-40 yards, he threw 12 passes, completing 2 of them (17% completions)

 

He threw no passes beyond 41 yards.

 

Looking at Pennington's stats (he had a total of 399 passing attempts that year), he attempted 43 passes beyond 21 yards (or what most people would term a deep pass)(I am using the term loosely), so out of his total attempts about 10% were deep passes.

 

Now, comparing that to passers such as Tom Brady (generally known as a dink and dunk, west coast passer) and Drew Bledsoe (who is widely known to have an excellent deep ball), Pennington did not throw nearly as many deep passes. To back this up statistically, Brady attempted 62 passes beyond 21 yards, and this amounts to about 11% of his total attempts (527), while Bledsoe attempted 156 passes beyond 21 yards, and this accounted for a whopping 33% of his total attempts (471). Additionally, Bledsoe attempted 5 passes beyond 41 yards, while Pennington threw none. It is evident, that Pennington's passing profile clearly resembles Brady's (a west coast passer) as opposed to Bledsoe (a deep-passing game QB).

 

For kicks, I compared the completion percentages between Bledsoe and Pennington in passes from 21-40 yards. Bledsoe's completion percentage came out to 27% (11/41). Pennington's came out to 26% (11/43). Judging from the comparison to Bledsoe (to reiterate, he's widely considered an excellent deep passer), our boy Chad isn't that bad of a deep ball passer at all, and in truth, he really didn't attempt THAT many deep balls anyway.

 

*All stats are from 2003, to keep things consistent.

Edited April 23, 2006 by Speed Kills

[Frank_Grimes]

Let's take Pennington's career year, 2003, and make a breakdown of his passing numbers.

 

During 2003, he threw 89 passes behind the line of scrimmage, and he completed 71 of them. (71/89, 80% completions)

 

From 1-10 yards, he threw 147 passes, and completed 115 of them. (78% completions)

 

From 11-20 yards, he threw 96 passes and completed 61 of them. (63% completions)

 

From 21-30 yards, he threw 31 passes and completed 9 of them. (29% completions)

 

From 31-40 yards, he threw 12 passes, completing 2 of them (17% completions)

 

He threw no passes beyond 41 yards.

 

Looking at Pennington's stats (he had a total of 399 passing attempts that year), he attempted 43 passes beyond 21 yards (or what most people would term a deep pass)(I am using the term loosely), so out of his total attempts about 10% were deep passes.

 

Now, comparing that to passers such as Tom Brady (generally known as a dink and dunk, west coast passer) and Drew Bledsoe (who is widely known to have an excellent deep ball), Pennington did not throw nearly as many deep passes. To back this up statistically, Brady attempted 62 passes beyond 21 yards, and this amounts to about 11% of his total attempts (527), while Bledsoe attempted 156 passes beyond 21 yards, and this accounted for a whopping 33% of his total attempts (471). Additionally, Bledsoe attempted 5 passes beyond 41 yards, while Pennington threw none. It is evident, that Pennington's passing profile clearly resembles Brady's (a west coast passer) as opposed to Bledsoe (a deep-passing game QB).

 

For kicks, I compared the completion percentages between Bledsoe and Pennington in passes from 21-40 yards. Bledsoe's completion percentage came out to 27% (11/41). Pennington's came out to 26% (11/43). Judging from the comparison to Bledsoe (to reiterate, he's widely considered an excellent deep passer), our boy Chad isn't that bad of a deep ball passer at all, and in truth, he really didn't attempt THAT many deep balls anyway.

 

*All stats are from 2003, to keep things consistent.

 

This is why you should be on the board on a consistent basis.

[gateb]

Let's take Pennington's career year, 2003, and make a breakdown of his passing numbers.

 

During 2003, he threw 89 passes behind the line of scrimmage, and he completed 71 of them. (71/89, 80% completions)

 

From 1-10 yards, he threw 147 passes, and completed 115 of them. (78% completions)

 

From 11-20 yards, he threw 96 passes and completed 61 of them. (63% completions)

 

From 21-30 yards, he threw 31 passes and completed 9 of them. (29% completions)

 

From 31-40 yards, he threw 12 passes, completing 2 of them (17% completions)

 

He threw no passes beyond 41 yards.

 

Looking at Pennington's stats (he had a total of 399 passing attempts that year), he attempted 43 passes beyond 21 yards (or what most people would term a deep pass)(I am using the term loosely), so out of his total attempts about 10% were deep passes.

 

Now, comparing that to passers such as Tom Brady (generally known as a dink and dunk, west coast passer) and Drew Bledsoe (who is widely known to have an excellent deep ball), Pennington did not throw nearly as many deep passes. To back this up statistically, Brady attempted 62 passes beyond 21 yards, and this amounts to about 11% of his total attempts (527), while Bledsoe attempted 156 passes beyond 21 yards, and this accounted for a whopping 33% of his total attempts (471). Additionally, Bledsoe attempted 5 passes beyond 41 yards, while Pennington threw none. It is evident, that Pennington's passing profile clearly resembles Brady's (a west coast passer) as opposed to Bledsoe (a deep-passing game QB).

 

For kicks, I compared the completion percentages between Bledsoe and Pennington in passes from 21-40 yards. Bledsoe's completion percentage came out to 27% (11/41). Pennington's came out to 26% (11/43). Judging from the comparison to Bledsoe (to reiterate, he's widely considered an excellent deep passer), our boy Chad isn't that bad of a deep ball passer at all, and in truth, he really didn't attempt THAT many deep balls anyway.

 

*All stats are from 2003, to keep things consistent.

Do you mean 2002? 2003 was where he had that wrist injury in pre-season.

[gateb]

What lovefest? Don't confuse Jets fans being excited over their first top QB prospect in 2 decades with general, informed opinion. Chad was a top player at his position when he was healthy. Again, I ask how he was overrated? Because he got a big contract? Seems to me a lot of guys are overrated then...

 

Drop this "short passes" argument. Judging by your descriptions, it's clear you didn't see him play much ... or if you did, you didn't understand the dynamics of what was happening on the field.

 

But go ahead and tell us how he and Chris Simms are similar. Aside from having blonde hair...

I watch over 13 Jets games a year since 2000.... I know what I'm talking about here. When I hear guys like Salsibury and Hoge say that Pennington has a cannon for an arm, which you can admit he does not and he is with Peyton Manning in terms of rated QBs in the NFL when he is not, it means he is overrated. And I can assure you that those aren't the only two guys giving him a lot of credit or at least more then he deserves.

 

btw speed kills, for future reference, what website did you get that info from? I want to use that for future arguements.

Edited April 23, 2006 by gateb

[Money]

I watch over 13 Jets games a year since 2000.... I know what I'm talking about here. When I hear guys like Salsibury and Hoge say that Pennington has a cannon for an arm, which you can admit he does not and he is with Peyton Manning in terms of rated QBs in the NFL when he is not, it means he is overrated. And I can assure you that those aren't the only two guys giving him a lot of credit or at least more then he deserves.

 

btw speed kills, for future reference, what website did you get that info from? I want to use that for future arguements.

 

"Those 11 completions actually enforce my point. I bet most of those were quick passes in the flat or 5-10 yard passes over the middle."

 

I guess this was one of the 3 games you annually miss. And it's comical for you to say that 11 consecutive completions in some way enforce whatever point you are trying to make. He doesn't have top arm strength? So what ... arm strength has little to do with being an excellent QB.

 

Show me something where Salisbury or Hodge explicitly say that Chad is/was as good as Peyton.

[speed_kills]

I watch over 13 Jets games a year since 2000.... I know what I'm talking about here. When I hear guys like Salsibury and Hoge say that Pennington has a cannon for an arm, which you can admit he does not and he is with Peyton Manning in terms of rated QBs in the NFL when he is not, it means he is overrated. And I can assure you that those aren't the only two guys giving him a lot of credit or at least more then he deserves.

 

btw speed kills, for future reference, what website did you get that info from? I want to use that for future arguements.

 

Yes, 2002. My mistake.

 

 

Umm, give me actual examples of times when Salisbury or Hodge have said Pennington has had a cannon of an arm. For all I've heard, Pennington's arm strength has always been knocked, and his accuracy has been praised. And WHY should I listen to you, when the stats say otherwise? And as for putting him in the class of Manning, the only other Qb I've heard put in Manning's class is Tom Brady (and Culpepper during his career year in 04-05).

[Plax 4 Prez]

Yes, 2002. My mistake.

Umm, give me actual examples of times when Salisbury or Hodge have said Pennington has had a cannon of an arm. For all I've heard, Pennington's arm strength has always been knocked, and his accuracy has been praised. And WHY should I listen to you, when the stats say otherwise? And as for putting him in the class of Manning, the only other Qb I've heard put in Manning's class is Tom Brady (and Culpepper during his career year in 04-05).

Um.. which Manning are you speaking of?

[Plax 4 Prez]

"Those 11 completions actually enforce my point. I bet most of those were quick passes in the flat or 5-10 yard passes over the middle."

 

I guess this was one of the 3 games you annually miss. And it's comical for you to say that 11 consecutive completions in some way enforce whatever point you are trying to make. He doesn't have top arm strength? So what ... arm strength has little to do with being an excellent QB.

 

Show me something where Salisbury or Hodge explicitly say that Chad is/was as good as Peyton.

If I'm not mistaken... Chad Pennigton has a better QB rateing then 95% of the QB's the Jets have EVER had... I don't care if my QB makes long passes, I want first downs, TD's, and smart accurate passes

[speed_kills]

1st completion: 5 yard completion to Richie Anderson

 

2nd Completion: 6 yard pass to Santana Moss

 

3rd Completion: 8 yard pass to Richie Anderson

 

4th completion: 32 yard pass to Laveranues Coles for a TD

 

5th completion: 21 yard pass to Wayne Chrebet

 

6th completion: 8 yard pass to Richie Anderson

 

7th completion: 15 yard pass to Anthony Becht

 

8th completion: 47 yard completion to Santana Moss

 

9th completion: 14 yard pass to Wayne Chrebet

 

10th completion: 11 yard pass to Santana Moss for a TD.

 

11th completion: 6 yard pass to Anthony Becht.

 

11/11, 100% completions, 2 TD's, 15.7 yards/completion

[Money]

Wow, Speed is back with a vengeance!