Will the 2011 Giants be Better or Worse than the 2010 Giants

[JackStroud]

I say they will be significantly better. They were snake bit last year.......a lot of bad luck, and stupidity.....injuries.

I see a 13-3 or better season coming up and possible 4th trophy

 

#1 I believe Coughlin will give near total control to the OC and DC and both guys have plenty of ability and confidence.

Fewell is hitting his stride........Eli and Gilbride are in perfect synch.......Eli will be allowed to audible confidently.

Also our power running game will keep opposing offenses on the bench

 

#2 Eli will significantly cut down on his INTs......he will have a break out year on the QB rating

 

#3- Nicks And Manningham are no longer Rookies or 2nd year players.......they are Vets now and will have explosive years.......Devin Thomas will fill the slot and add downfield ability Smith did not have ditto Hixon

 

#4 Our biggest weakness last year was special teams......from what I've seen so far these young bodies we have brought in know how to get downfield and tackle.......also the new rules will cut back on damaging kick returns.

I expect big run backs from Devin Thomas and Hixon

 

#5 The Dline and Lbers will be 35-50 % more effective than last year..........we wont be shut down corners, we will be a shut down D.........we will suffocate opponents this year and cause significant carnage

 

Go BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

PS- the cornerback situation is wayyyyyyyyyyyy overblown......we will be starting the 2 starters of the 2007 SB and the DBs as a whole are very very strong.......these are the best safteys weve had in modern times.........people focus too much on CBs......they are but part of the equation and their real value is on short routes........its the long ones that hurt you

[Bigblue25]

Agreed, 12-4 we win the East

 

1.let me add that the Oline will be better, we will run it like we did in 2008. Baas fit right in, and that was something I was worried about. I like Diehl at G better then at T, Beatty will come through, McKenzie still has a year or two left. Snee may be the best G in the NFL, I say 1,200 yards at least for Jacobs and Bradshaw.

 

2.We won't miss T2 has much has people think, he led the team in tackles, that's not good for a CB. Ross is playing for a new deal, he did not like being moved to S last year and I think he has regained his confidence. Rolle is in year two of Fewell's scheme, and has looked really good from what I saw so far. Phillips is about where he should be after the injury. Secondary will be fine

 

3. Same thing here, Hixon,Jernigan and Thomas offer more speed then Smith, they will be able to take things vertical.

 

4. Jones and Herzlich have looked good has rookies, Kiwi will rush the passer from the strongside, instead of dropping into coverage. Goff and Boley were good last year, better then most people think.

 

5. We will continue to get TO's, Amukamara will be back, Osi the strip machine will be back, We will see three safety S sets again, even put Rolle in at nickel.

[Treehugger]

Positives

 

1) Just by fixing STs alone we'll be better. Like up to 100 yards a game better. Dodge looks phenomenal and cover teams are actually covering.

 

2) Pass rush from the ends will be even nastier

 

3) LBs are not the weak spot we all thought they were.

 

4) I hate to admit it but Canty looks great. Pressure up the middle would make our DLine the best in the league.

 

5) Our WRs, on balance, will be better than the Smithless corps we finished the year with. Manningham will have a big year if Eli gets his arm calibrated...which brings me to the negatives...

 

 

 

Negatives

 

 

1) I'm not convinced Eli is where he should be yet though, he's looked rather erratic so far.

 

2) Losing TT for the year isn't great though probably not the season-ending loss some were calling it. I think Ross has improved a lot and will fill in fine...possibly even better.

 

3) Not expecting any real contribution (aside from STs) from any of this year's picks, which is a shame.

[JackStroud]

On ESPN Ron Jaworski (that big Giants believer) just said we are going to have a bad year beacuse

 

"Our offensive line is unstable, we have no Fullback, and no TE" LOL Once an Eagle always an Eagle

 

Gruden said we would improve on our 10-6 record and we are "A Very Dangerous Team"

 

Jaworski also said incredibly the Eagles will not make it back to 10-6

 

Gruden predicts big things for the Cowboys............give me a break

[osi724dasack]

Treehugger your an idiot to say that Ross can do a better job then T2

[Tempest]

Time will tell. Thomas is the better tackler, Ross is better at covering.

 

Treehugger your an idiot to say that Ross can do a better job then T2

[Treehugger]

Treehugger your an idiot to say that Ross can do a better job then T2

I didn't say "can" I said "possibly". Ross's development as a CB was arrested due to injury then being used to fill the hole at S when he returned. I don't think we've seen the best of him yet.

[JackStroud]

something is wrong when a CB is exceeding 100 tackles

 

they must be targeting his side

 

I wonder how many of his 100 were in the enemy backfield

[Bigblue25]

something is wrong when a CB is exceeding 100 tackles

 

they must be targeting his side

 

I wonder how many of his 100 were in the enemy backfield

 

exactly, he tackled most of the guys he was responsible for covering, sometimes it was 20 yards after the catch. I am not sure where this T2 love came from, I don't hate him, and wish he was not injured. I see alot of Giants fans treating him like he was Revis though. Osi hate to disagree with you, but he wasn't a great tackler, not when it came to supporting the run.

[Bigblue25]

something is wrong when a CB is exceeding 100 tackles

 

they must be targeting his side

 

I wonder how many of his 100 were in the enemy backfield

 

Double post

[Nas]

I like this thread. Great insight from Jack and B25. Treehugger absorbed Osi's assault quite nicely.

[fishgutmartyr]

On paper, we seem better. Injuries, as always, may provide a different story.

 

1) I don't think we'll see as many turnovers. Won't cause as many turnovers, either, but we'd make up for that with points scored with the offense.

2) Our young linebackers will become a force to reckon with. If not as linebackers this year, then on specials. But I wouldn't rule out one or two starting by the end of the season. That being said by someone lamenting our LBs for years, now.

3) Speaking specials, they looked downright good last week. Competent would be an upgrade.

4) Offense, on a whole, is stronger. Yes, we lost Smith. Yes, we lost Boss. But we didn't have Smith for the end of last year, we have gotten a chance to deal with life without Smith in the offseason; and frankly, Boss was a shell of himself last season. Meanwhile, our oline has gotten younger, and shouldn't have the ever-rotating lineup we saw last year.

5) Assuming Brown and D. Scott make the team over Ware this year, our running game will have actually improved. Why? We would have legit receiving threats out of the backfield, something we really haven't had since 2006 (which was also the last year we beat the Eagles, if I recall). Hynoski should ultimately be better than Pascoe as fullback, and maybe some of those patented Gilbride plays that Hedgecock dropped on a steady basis will actually result in some yardage. That would be swell.

 

I'm most worried about TE. The CB situation is pretty bad at the moment, but we did get another vet, will be getting Prince back, and still have time to get more CBs if we need them. Better this shit happens now when there are options than in mid-season.

 

There are still worries, but the balance sheet is definitely in favor of this year's team. Did we do enough to keep up? Who knows...but for all the sloppy play last year, we were still 10-6, and I believe we have the potential to be a better team this year even if we just tighten that up.

[osi724dasack]

I like our team and all but

 

Ross is no where near the playmaker that T2 is. Just watch the film, it's all there on film and that's why I have tO call you guys out on it.

 

And T2 had the most tackles on RBs for ALL CBs 2 years straight!!

[Allstarjim]

Back to the T2 tackling debate for a moment, I believe that T2 played on Osi's side a lot more than Webster, and possibly in the slot a lot in 3 WR sets... I'm not totally sure. But a slot corner is better positioned to make more tackles because of the probability of the slot corner's ability to get to the ball before a corner on the outside, comparatively speaking. Teams also run to Osi's side more than Tuck's, so T2 would get more opportunities to help in run defense playing on Osi's side. I did not see T2 get abused too often. One such occasion was against Dez Bryant. But getting abused by a very talented receiver does not make one a bad CB. Look at what Plax did to Al Harris in the '07 NFCCG. Al Harris is a highly respected corner, who at the time, was considered to play at a Pro Bowl level. Plax was just the better man on that day.

 

T2 also led the team in INT's last year, it should be noted. Now, I have a ton of respect for T2's game, but Webster is the better cover corner, no doubt in my mind. And part of the reason why T2 gets more stats (not even close to being the entire reason, though), is because QB's don't often want to throw to Webster's side. They'd rather throw away from a team's best corner than to him. I'm not saying Webster is a shut down corner like Revis, but he is underrated and I think he's a top 10 corner in the NFL, maybe a top 5.

 

 

As far as the original point of the thread, I could do a top 5 reasons arguing both sides of this very easily. But I like to stay positive. Some of these are reiterations of others' points:

 

1. Like Tree said, the Special Teams is going to be much, much better this year, especially when it comes to opponent's starting field position, and of course, punt coverage and situational punting. We lost more than the Eagles' game last year because of bad ST's, we lost a couple games where ST's were a major factor.

 

2. Jonathan Goff. I was NOT a believer in this guy coming out of college, and I really didn't think he should've been given the starting nod last year. But so far in preseason, this guy looks like he's made leaps and bounds in his development from last year to this year. He wasn't bad last year, but this year he looks much more instinctive, and you can see it in the way he carries himself and the things he's saying. He's not having to think as much anymore, he now KNOWS what he has to do and where to be, so he can just react. Looks so much faster. Goff is a key player this year on defense.

 

3. Year 2 of JPP and Linval. I can't remember who said it, but it was a respected offensive lineman who said to watch out for Linval this year, because he's the strongest man he's ever had to block. He doesn't get a lot of pub because of the loss of Cofield and being in the shadow of JPP a bit, but he could have just as big if not bigger impact on the DL this year than JPP. Cofield is a great player, but I see Linval as stepping right in and playing big time. Speaking of the Haitian Sensation, JPP in year 2 is going to be a terrifyingly disruptive force.

 

4. Blessings in disguises - we lose guys like Osi and Prince early, and it sucks, but a shortened season might be good for them. And this year, I'd much rather them miss time on the front end rather than the back end of the season (really any year I'd want that). We should get Osi back right before the tough part of our schedule begins, and Prince as well. I do think Prince is going to contribute, and I do think he's going to make some big plays for us as well as make a few rookie mistakes. But he's going to be what the doctor ordered when he gets out there and is comfortable in this defense. Also Kiwi and KP... KP is another year removed from his microfracture surgery and I think we're all hoping that he starts to show us again the promise he had when he was considered one of the top up and coming safeties in the NFL. And Kiwi is back healthy and he remains a difference maker. All this could change quickly, though, as health is always the x-factor, but I remain cautiously optimistic.

 

5. Eli and the O-Line. It's always about Eli. I cannot doubt his work ethic and the fact is that he's gotten better every year in terms of accuracy. I still think he's getting better and he's going to get those turnovers down. I believe in Eli! He can make this go and this O-line in front of him is better this year. Beatty already looks like an improvement at LT and that is going to help Eli to not have to rush as many throws. In fact, the Giants got better at three positions on the offensive line amid all the question marks. What is there to question? Baas, Beatty, and Diehl at their positions is going to make our line more efficient and powerful. The only worry I have is if Kareem McKenzie starts to fade. He is not a spring chicken but he did have a good year last year.

[Allstarjim]

Real quick, why we could be worse than 10-6 this year:

 

1. The schedule particularly after the bye week is the most brutal I've seen in recent memory. We all know that the Eagles and Cowboys are going to give us 4 tough games. Now throw on top of that, @New England, @New Orleans, Green Bay, and the Jets. Those are 4 games right there we could easily lose, and that means we have to win ALL the games against opponents we SHOULD beat, as well as have a winning record in the division just to match last year's 10 win season.

 

2. Turnovers. We should have lost a lot more games last year than we did, because of our record number of turnovers. The only reason we didn't is because our defense had a historic year in getting the ball back a little bit more than our offense was giving it away. Bradshaw has to be better with ball security, and Eli has to significantly reduce the INTs... we're not talking about going to 20 from 25... more like 15.

 

3. Lack of playmakers. Nicks and Bradshaw both have had their injury woes in the past. If it happens again we are left with one proven playmaker in Manningham, and he's going to get doubled in that scenario. The other guys are unproven, and I think the one thing this team lacks is that very dangerous x-factor offensive weapon that scares the bejeebers out of defenses. See DeSean Jackson, Dez Bryant, Chris Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, the do-it-all types. Even Nicks isn't quite the burner, but he's as close to a big-time playmaker that we have, and I'm not complaining. These guys sometimes make up the difference, when everything else doesn't go according to plan, they put 6 on the board just because of sheer athletic ability. This is why in the past we've had a plodding offense that has been great in between the 20's. Not to mention our best TE is our starting FB and our starting TE is a slightly oversized WR who hasn't shown a great knack for getting open.

 

4. We very possibly could be the third best team in our division. I don't really believe that, but the Cowboys were playing much better ball late last year under Garrett, and he seems to have them moving in the right direction. They have Romo back, and Dez is now going to be fully unleashed. I THINK we're better than they are, but that doesn't even change the fact that Philly has OWNED us the past several years and I can't say that they've gotten any worse.

 

5. We still have Gilbride and TC. At times I love them both. Gilly has had our offense be consistently very good, but at times, I question his situational play-calling, particularly near the goal-lines and on big 3rd and 4th downs where we absolutely have to have it. I think both Gilly and TC get too conservative and don't go for the jugular enough, and at times are slow to make adjustments to the opposition. B-E-AGGRESSIVE!

[RandolphScott]

People keep telling me that Thomas has 10 INTs the last few years...thats true..he's had 5 per year.

 

He gets thrown at ALOT. There were more than a few games where you didn't hear the guy who Corey Webster was covering name.

 

He makes all these tackles, INTs because he gets thrown at. Period.

[RandolphScott]

Jim...Dallas has done NOTHING to improve that defense of there's. They have Ware who's great...and shit behind him.

[Allstarjim]

Golfin',

 

I do have concerns about Dallas' defense, particularly the secondary. But they do have other good players in that front seven besides Ware... Ratliff, James, Olshansky, and Sean Lee, entering his 2nd year is good, too. But they are going to be tough on offense... I'm looking at Romo throwing to Austin, Bryant, Witten, Bennett, Felix Jones, and they drafted DeMarco Murray who could be the best RB in this year's draft. Plus they improved their O-line. I'm not crowning them, but we are not without our flaws and they did win 5 of their last 8 games last season. I'm merely pointing out that Dallas should not be looked at as 2 easy victories. They could sweep us and I wouldn't be that surprised.

[osi724dasack]

People keep telling me that Thomas has 10 INTs the last few years...thats true..he's had 5 per year.

 

He gets thrown at ALOT. There were more than a few games where you didn't hear the guy who Corey Webster was covering name.

He makes all these tackles, INTs because he gets thrown at. Period.

Incorrect once again.

 

He lead all CBs in tackles on RBs two years straight!

 

Also...look at those 10 INTs, watch them, some of them are just ridiculous INts that only a top playmaker would make.

[osi724dasack]

Amazing how underated T2 was here. Oh well doesn't

Matter now since his knee is spagetti and he will be a cowboy next year.

[osi724dasack]

So far Jim is the only one who pays attention to the CBs and the whole D in general with a few of the points he made about teams running at Osi's side while T2 is in the slot or where ever.

 

Bottom line is

 

He tackles RBs all day and makes plays all day. (5 INTs and 4 FFs in 10)

 

Well atleast he used too before his knee blew out last week = (

[BleedinBlue]

I like our team this year, but I'm not sure we'll have a better record at the end of the season than last year. There's just so much parity in football and we have a really tough schedule. I do think we'll finally beat Philly this year simply because they have a real problem with their offensive line and Vick will be under pressure the entire game.

 

- Special teams are looking better (knock on wood) and that means better field position and hopefully, more wins. Our ST killed us last year and it appears we have some young blood in there that might change that. Ever since the Giants cut Tyree, our special team play has suffered. He was the gunner that made good things happen.

 

- I love our lines....especially the defensive line. It should be downright scary for opposing offenses. We have so many options to give other teams fits. I think re-signing Bernard was a smart move to keep another vet in the mix to keep the boys fresh. I think that Dave Tollefson is underrated and suffers (in name recognition) from backing up some of the biggest names in defense in the NFL, but he's solid year after year. He's not intimidating, but he's smart and gives it 100% every time he's on the field. As I've pointed out in another thread, I like Okpokowuruk too and I think he's a solid backup with the hunger that comes with youth.

 

- I think our Linebackers are finally settling in to be a force. Last year when our defensive line suffered, the LB'rs had to patch their holes and try to do two jobs instead of being straight LB'rs. Goff looks like the real deal and Kiwi finally has a position he can call his own and I think he'll thrive now that he can focus on one position. If they can stop Witten, I'll be thrilled. Witten seems to have the Giants number and kills us year after year. He waltzes through our LB'rs like it's an open field.

 

- I like our safeties alot, and our starters are better than solid with a healthy Kenny Phillips back and very good player in Antrel Rolle. I'm really glad we re-signed Deon Grant who played very well in Fewell's three-safety package last year and Sash looks like an up and comer.

 

- I think our defense will be better all-around this year because it's their second year in Fewell's system and it's starting to get locked in. Last year there were alot of adjustments, but now it should be far more familiar. I think Fewell's a top notch Defensive Coordinator and it takes a year to get used to a system. This year should prove his worth.

 

-----------------------------------------

My worries:

 

I'm worried about our CB situation and hope that Ross and Webster can stay healthy because they are going to get the brunt of the action all year and that's a heavy load. Hopefully the Prince has been studying tape and is a quick study while waiting to be healed. If he can step in and be a force, we should be okay. Still, I suspect opposing offenses are going to test them right out of the chute and look for a weakness. Coe looks like he'll make the team and he showed some promise and I'm glad we signed a vet in Brian Williams. Still....this is my defensive concern.

 

I worry about injuries. I don't think any team has lost as many crucial players as the Giants. I'm glad we have such depth because we can still field a solid team while our studs are in the hospital. We can't afford anymore big injuries this season and I know that injuries are part of the game so I'll be holding my breath everytime one of our players doesn't get up after a play.

[CrazedDogs]

something is wrong when a CB is exceeding 100 tackles

 

they must be targeting his side

 

I wonder how many of his 100 were in the enemy backfield

 

Normally you would be right, but almost half T2's tackles were on the running back. You've got to take out the tackles on people other than his coverage responsibility to make any sort of judgment about the value of a cornerback's number of tackles. The real number is more like 50 or 60 tackles.

 

T2 isn't great in coverage, plus he plays opposite one of the very best cover corners, so he does get targeted a lot (over 120 times in 2010).... I think Ross was always better in coverage, but more prone to mental errors and not as willing to stick his nose in to make a stop.

 

The big drop off from losing T2 isn't on the outside, because Ross can handle it if he's healthy... its going to be against slot receivers or whoever the nickle will be covering.

[Nas]

I think it mostly comes down to Eli.. how Eli plays determines our fate... of course that can be said for any QB but Eli is different.. Eli has flashed brilliance... he has shown he can be an Elite QB... problem is to reach Elite Status you have to be consistent. Just observing Eli I see he fucks up most when his body is cold... that's not true 100% but most of the time.. and that goes for most athletes. When the Giants go 3 and out and I see Eli just sitting on the bench it bugs me because him not staying warm makes his throws more erratic. The 2nd part is his mechanics. When the throws the ball with zip, it gets there.. hits its target... when he floats it.. it's a coin flip.

 

Jim, the 4 teams you mentioned on our schedule that would be tough, I'm sure they're looking at their schedule and are saying the same thing about us. in that respect I'm not worried.

 

I don't think Tynes will stay on the roster especially if this new guy kicks like he's been kicking and Dodge (poor kid was shit on as though he lost us the Eagles' game.. which he did not)... Dodge is playing lights out.

 

I love our new center.. this guy is a mean fuck lol. The way he clobbered that Chicago defender then took down two more players with him was a thing of beauty. T2 was great for us but Ross aint that far behind... especially now that he's in a contract year.. he better play with a fire under his ass.

 

The way I see it... Eli Eli Eli.... that's our season.

[BleedinBlue]

I think it mostly comes down to Eli.. how Eli plays determines our fate... of course that can be said for any QB but Eli is different.. Eli has flashed brilliance... he has shown he can be an Elite QB... problem is to reach Elite Status you have to be consistent. Just observing Eli I see he fucks up most when his body is cold... that's not true 100% but most of the time.. and that goes for most athletes. When the Giants go 3 and out and I see Eli just sitting on the bench it bugs me because him not staying warm makes his throws more erratic. The 2nd part is his mechanics. When the throws the ball with zip, it gets there.. hits its target... when he floats it.. it's a coin flip.

 

Jim, the 4 teams you mentioned on our schedule that would be tough, I'm sure they're looking at their schedule and are saying the same thing about us. in that respect I'm not worried.

 

I don't think Tynes will stay on the roster especially if this new guy kicks like he's been kicking and Dodge (poor kid was shit on as though he lost us the Eagles' game.. which he did not)... Dodge is playing lights out.

 

I love our new center.. this guy is a mean fuck lol. The way he clobbered that Chicago defender then took down two more players with him was a thing of beauty. T2 was great for us but Ross aint that far behind... especially now that he's in a contract year.. he better play with a fire under his ass.

 

The way I see it... Eli Eli Eli.... that's our season.

Good points.

 

I read a great article the other day (think it was on True Blue) about Eli. The author pointed out the times Eli has excelled compared to when he flounders. He believed that Eli rarely deviates from the play that Gilbride calls. Because of it, Eli will throw to the reciever even though he's well covered because it's his bosses play. On the other hand, whenever Eli has gone into a hurry-up offense, he makes his own calls and excels....the late game heroics in the superbowl show some of that.

 

Regardless....it seems to me the guy is right and that when Eli is in control of the game, he's getting to the line quicker and he has a strategy worked out with one or two guys and he follows his guy rather than forcing passes because that was what Gilbride called for. It also explains the "delay of games" and the very last second hup of the ball as Eli studies the defense and tries to see how the play will unfold under Gilbride's play call.

 

I would love to see them give Eli more rope to hang himself. I think he'd hang the other team far more often than himself. Many of the great QB's of the past called their own games, but Gilbride's makeup is such that he wants to micro-manage the offensive game. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it sure explains the many interceptions Eli had last year....in my mind anyway. They need to cut Eli loose and see what happens rather than controlling him like a robot.

 

I really believe that Eli is at his best in a hurry-up offense when he's making his own plays and taking advantage of the quicker count and his reading the defense to exploit the area that is out of sync.