First Round, 19th Pick

[Herc]

jim we already have a player in the jackson/bryant mold. i'd take nicks over jackson right now and maybe bryant turns out to be better but we're splitting hairs at this point.

 

i am very much a believer in bpa, but i really would prefer not to draft a rb in round 1 unless he is truly special--you can get a good rb almost anywhere at this point

[JMFP]

Personally, I think we need to restock LB in FA and the draft.....and no more fucking retreads and mid-round picks, if you please.

 

How about getting a Pro Bowl Linebacker IN HIS PRIME, and then the best linebacker available in the draft???? God forbid, right?

 

Von Miller will be an Eagle.....the fat man is going to jump over us and get him.

 

Hope I'm wrong. The kid looks pretty damn fast coming off the edge. Looks like the type of defender that Andy Reid loves.

 

I can't imagine what adding a fast, instinctive linebacker would do to our defense.

[Allstarjim]

jim we already have a player in the jackson/bryant mold. i'd take nicks over jackson right now and maybe bryant turns out to be better but we're splitting hairs at this point.

 

i am very much a believer in bpa, but i really would prefer not to draft a rb in round 1 unless he is truly special--you can get a good rb almost anywhere at this point

 

 

I love Nicks as well, Herc.... I really do. I've said many times I think he'll be the best WR we've ever had here (admittedly not an overly impressive group). But as much as I love Nicks and believe he'll be a pro bowler year after year, when you see Jackson make guys look silly all over the field like he did on that punt return to beat us, and how bad Dez Bryant made Terrell Thomas look (a very good NFL corner) I have to say I don't think that Nicks is quite as fast, elusive, and just dominant as those two guys are. Believe me, this is like the difference between a Corvette and a Ferrari, we'd all probably like to have either, but boy a Ferrari is just taking it to another level. To be fair, I think someone like Dez Bryant only comes around so often... I think that guy has a good chance to be one of the top 3 receivers to ever play football... and you just don't find athletes like him but maybe once a generation. And AJ Green isn't that kind of athlete either... but what he would do is provide that tall wide receiver with great ball skills that we've been missing since Plaxico. The two of them would create a pick your poison on the outside, and with Steve Smith in the slot, you just can't really defend that.

 

But at this point, as Joe said, I'd really love to see a fast, instinctive linebacker on our defense.... it would probably create the biggest immediate impact on our football team. Someone said that a first round linebacker probably wouldn't make an immediate impact, but there are a lot of examples who did make a big impact in their rookie years. No one can really predict with absolute accuracy how long it will take for a young player to make that jump, but when you have the speed Miller does, it sure makes it easier.

[Chuck Wagon]

Only ones worth looking at , The first one I would go for Is Greenway.

 

Agreed...but he went to U of Iowa...and grew up in South Dakota.......the Vikes will pay what he asks to keep him simply because he puts asses in the seats and he is just coming into his prime.

 

C. Wagon

[Bigblue25]

Well, I did see some arm tackles but he also laid the wood, too. Anyway, technique is coachable. What's not coachable is SPEED and football instincts, something we are lacking in our linebackers and we've been lacking that for a while now. That's what was jumping off the screen at me with Von Miller. Dude is a playmaker.

 

We need more then speed, Boley is fast but he doesn't stay in his gap or completly over pursues the play. I have concerns for Miller at the next level, he's very tight in coverage which is what we need more then speed. He tries blowing up a guy more then wrap up tackling, good luck doing that against Michael Vick. He is also to me a product of the system, A&M runs a 3-4 in which they free up Miller to chase down the QB,he played specialized 'jack" position . I will admit he looks great on tape and his highlight reels jump out, but I see him struggling at the next level. Another concern is he has had ankle and hip injuries and missed significant time, we already drafted Dilliard last year ignoring the fact he was often injured. The way Miller throws his body around he won't last at the next level. Plus we rush the passer with our front four, we don't need another pass rusher, we drafted speed last year. Miller could be nothing more then Clint Sintim.

[JMFP]

Good points by Jim and #25....

 

I don't know enough about Von Miller to say I'm sold, but I like the speed, athleticism, and agressiveness.

 

Yes, this can lead to overpursuit, sloppy tackling, etc.....but that's much more coachable than running around with shit in his pants.

 

I'm looking for disruption from our linebackers. Other than a few flashes from Goff and Boley, I basically saw some linebackers who made tackles beyond the line of scrimmage.

 

Having a guy that can get to the QB, even if he misses, is better than a guy who can't get there at all.

 

And if that guy is an LB, and not a corner or safety, that helps even more.

 

I'm biased....I grew up during the LT heyday, and would love to see a return to a 3-4 down the road.

 

But I think the best way to improve a team is on defense, and the best way to improve a defense is with the linebacker. A truly great linebacker can do so many things: rush the passer, stuff the run, cover the RB/TE.

 

We've got an "A" defensive front, a "B+" secondary, and a "C+" linebacking unit, in my opinion at least.

[Nas]

We need more then speed, Boley is fast but he doesn't stay in his gap or completly over pursues the play. I have concerns for Miller at the next level, he's very tight in coverage which is what we need more then speed. He tries blowing up a guy more then wrap up tackling, good luck doing that against Michael Vick. He is also to me a product of the system, A&M runs a 3-4 in which they free up Miller to chase down the QB,he played specialized 'jack" position . I will admit he looks great on tape and his highlight reels jump out, but I see him struggling at the next level. Another concern is he has had ankle and hip injuries and missed significant time, we already drafted Dilliard last year ignoring the fact he was often injured. The way Miller throws his body around he won't last at the next level. Plus we rush the passer with our front four, we don't need another pass rusher, we drafted speed last year. Miller could be nothing more then Clint Sintim.

 

I don't know bro.. there were times when pass rush was non-existent.

[Allstarjim]

We need more then speed, Boley is fast but he doesn't stay in his gap or completly over pursues the play. I have concerns for Miller at the next level, he's very tight in coverage which is what we need more then speed. He tries blowing up a guy more then wrap up tackling, good luck doing that against Michael Vick. He is also to me a product of the system, A&M runs a 3-4 in which they free up Miller to chase down the QB,he played specialized 'jack" position . I will admit he looks great on tape and his highlight reels jump out, but I see him struggling at the next level. Another concern is he has had ankle and hip injuries and missed significant time, we already drafted Dilliard last year ignoring the fact he was often injured. The way Miller throws his body around he won't last at the next level. Plus we rush the passer with our front four, we don't need another pass rusher, we drafted speed last year. Miller could be nothing more then Clint Sintim.

 

I don't know man, the highlights I watched there displayed a lot of coverage ability and awesome sideline to sideline pursuits, taking down running backs, etc.... sure, there were the obligatory pass rushes, but I saw that almost exclusively with the Justin Houston highlights, and Akeem Ayers... he kinda looked slow to me. Now Ayers is a guy that, at least to me, resembles Clint Sintim.

 

Miller has the size and speed combo that you only find with the great ones, bro. It's a good discussion, though, I wonder if this is the type of stuff that is argued about in war rooms.

[Storm]

Ya, you can get a running back in any round of the draft to come in for a season or 2 and give you a thousand yard season....but then you get stuck with guys who are fairly average at the position...you know, like Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs.

 

If you want a guy that can get you say, 1500+ yards, be a playmaker, and very rarely fail on 3rd and 1 (which we I'd say we do on several occasions throughout a season) you go for a running back in the first round. Ya, you could get a bust like Ron Dayne, but it's better than drafting our approximately 10th defensive end.

[Nas]

Ya, you can get a running back in any round of the draft to come in for a season or 2 and give you a thousand yard season....but then you get stuck with guys who are fairly average at the position...you know, like Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs.

 

If you want a guy that can get you say, 1500+ yards, be a playmaker, and very rarely fail on 3rd and 1 (which we I'd say we do on several occasions throughout a season) you go for a running back in the first round. Ya, you could get a bust like Ron Dayne, but it's better than drafting our approximately 10th defensive end.

 

Yea but I think linebacker is a bigger need. But if some freak of nature is available at 19 and I don't care what position (I'm salivating over that wide receiver Allstarjim talked about... AJ Green I think). And our RBs are actually pretty good. let's not get carried away here.

[Storm]

Yea but I think linebacker is a bigger need. But if some freak of nature is available at 19 and I don't care what position (I'm salivating over that wide receiver Allstarjim talked about... AJ Green I think). And our RBs are actually pretty good. let's not get carried away here.

 

One fumbles one gets tripped up behind the line constantly. Neither are a shoe in to get in from the 2 yard line

[Bigblue25]

I don't know man, the highlights I watched there displayed a lot of coverage ability and awesome sideline to sideline pursuits, taking down running backs, etc.... sure, there were the obligatory pass rushes, but I saw that almost exclusively with the Justin Houston highlights, and Akeem Ayers... he kinda looked slow to me. Now Ayers is a guy that, at least to me, resembles Clint Sintim.

 

Miller has the size and speed combo that you only find with the great ones, bro. It's a good discussion, though, I wonder if this is the type of stuff that is argued about in war rooms.

 

Your right about Houston he is strictly a 3-4 OLB to me. I think Miller does have alot of strengthsas well,I am not all negative about him and he definently looks the part.I'm not sure if you seen the Nebraska vs. Texas A&M game but he was a one man wrecking crew against a good Nebraska offense. He won the Butkus award and that was after missing some games with a ankle injury. This may all be moot point anyway.

[JMFP]

Unless we have an absolute steal land in our laps, I'd be pissed if we didn't draft a linebacker. The Giants fanbase is just dying for another great linebacker.

[Nas]

Unless we have an absolute steal land in our laps, I'd be pissed if we didn't draft a linebacker. The Giants fanbase is just dying for another great linebacker.

 

There doesn't seem to be one in this draft.

[Allstarjim]

I guess we will know a lot more after the combine. There is the East-West Shrine Game coming up on the 22nd, and the Senior Bowl will be on the 29th, also of this month. There are some players worth checking out in those games:

 

Senior Bowl:

 

Josh Bynes - LB, Auburn

Mason Foster - LB, Washington

Kelvin Sheppard - LB, LSU

Noel Devine - RB, West Virginia

DeMarco Murray - RB, Oklahoma

Rodney Hudson - G, FSU

Ahmad Black - DB, Florida

Mike Pouncey - G, Florida

 

East - West Shrine Game:

 

Eric Gordon - LB, Michigan State

Scott Lutrus - LB, UCONN

Gregory Lloyd II - LB, UCONN

Nicholas Bellore - LB, Central Michigan

Chris Carter - LB, Fresno State

Ben Jacobs - LB, Fresno State

Orie Lemon - LB, Oklahoma State

Michael Mohamed - LB, Cal

Winston Venable - LB, Boise State

Brian Rolle - LB, Ohio State

Josh McNary - LB, Army

Douglas Hogue - LB, Syracuse

Akem Dent - LB, Georgia

Vaia Tua - RB, Nevada

 

So probably most of these linebackers aren't that great... but it's football and they are trying to make one more impression.

[Herc]

I love Nicks as well, Herc.... I really do. I've said many times I think he'll be the best WR we've ever had here (admittedly not an overly impressive group). But as much as I love Nicks and believe he'll be a pro bowler year after year, when you see Jackson make guys look silly all over the field like he did on that punt return to beat us, and how bad Dez Bryant made Terrell Thomas look (a very good NFL corner) I have to say I don't think that Nicks is quite as fast, elusive, and just dominant as those two guys are. Believe me, this is like the difference between a Corvette and a Ferrari, we'd all probably like to have either, but boy a Ferrari is just taking it to another level. To be fair, I think someone like Dez Bryant only comes around so often... I think that guy has a good chance to be one of the top 3 receivers to ever play football... and you just don't find athletes like him but maybe once a generation. And AJ Green isn't that kind of athlete either... but what he would do is provide that tall wide receiver with great ball skills that we've been missing since Plaxico. The two of them would create a pick your poison on the outside, and with Steve Smith in the slot, you just can't really defend that.

 

But at this point, as Joe said, I'd really love to see a fast, instinctive linebacker on our defense.... it would probably create the biggest immediate impact on our football team. Someone said that a first round linebacker probably wouldn't make an immediate impact, but there are a lot of examples who did make a big impact in their rookie years. No one can really predict with absolute accuracy how long it will take for a young player to make that jump, but when you have the speed Miller does, it sure makes it easier.

 

jackson's done as soon as he loses a step though. he's one trick deep threat pony and he had plenty of games where he did next to nothing. he's an all or nothing souped up deep threat track star in football cleats. 47 catches and 6 TD's in 14 games is nothing special.

 

nicks is the whole package. bryant looks like he's goign to dominate the WR scene and i can definitely see the case of him over nicks provided he keeps growing the way he is, but i'd take nicks over jackson in a heartbeat. the guy had the best wr numbers in football til he had compartment syndrome

[JMFP]

jackson's done as soon as he loses a step though. he's one trick deep threat pony and he had plenty of games where he did next to nothing. he's an all or nothing souped up deep threat track star in football cleats. 47 catches and 6 TD's in 14 games is nothing special.

 

nicks is the whole package. bryant looks like he's goign to dominate the WR scene and i can definitely see the case of him over nicks provided he keeps growing the way he is, but i'd take nicks over jackson in a heartbeat. the guy had the best wr numbers in football til he had compartment syndrome

 

Great points, Herc.

 

As a QB, I'd want Jackson when he is open......but I'll take Nicks when he is not open.

[fringe]

yeah jackson excels at long routes. he's mostly a big play guy. most of the time, the QB doesn't get that kind of protection for him to set up.

[JMFP]

Someone said that a first round linebacker probably wouldn't make an immediate impact, but there are a lot of examples who did make a big impact in their rookie years. No one can really predict with absolute accuracy how long it will take for a young player to make that jump, but when you have the speed Miller does, it sure makes it easier.

 

A great example is Patrick Willis. He instantly upgraded the entire 49er defense because of his versatility and skill.

 

I'm not comparing anyone in this year's draft to Wills, but just throwing him out there as an example of how a great LB can elevate the defense.

 

As far speed goes, I agree 100%.....making tackles is obviously the goal....but just having the speed to deny the edge to a running back, and force them to your support, is huge. Having the speed to not be a liability on the field is also huge - it gives the DC so many more options with other personnel.

[fringe]

Personally, I think we need to restock LB in FA and the draft.....and no more fucking retreads and mid-round picks, if you please.

 

How about getting a Pro Bowl Linebacker IN HIS PRIME, and then the best linebacker available in the draft???? God forbid, right?

 

i agree- we need to show a commitment to building back the linebacker position. even if the guy doesn't make an immediate impact, it sets the tone.

 

if you keep on doin what you're doin, you'll keep gettin what you're gettin.

 

 

[Nas]

jackson's done as soon as he loses a step though. he's one trick deep threat pony and he had plenty of games where he did next to nothing. he's an all or nothing souped up deep threat track star in football cleats. 47 catches and 6 TD's in 14 games is nothing special.

 

nicks is the whole package. bryant looks like he's goign to dominate the WR scene and i can definitely see the case of him over nicks provided he keeps growing the way he is, but i'd take nicks over jackson in a heartbeat. the guy had the best wr numbers in football til he had compartment syndrome

 

That's very true. This is why we drafted Moss... ours never panned out though.

 

Jackson is a very good return man.. but as a WR he's just fast.. nothing else.

[Bigblue25]

That's very true. This is why we drafted Moss... ours never panned out though.

 

Jackson is a very good return man.. but as a WR he's just fast.. nothing else.

 

Yeah he half asses most his routes, its part of the reason Dunta Robinson layed him out. Every once in awhile he will catch a quick slant and make a guy miss taking it to the house. He can run the deep post pretty well but, He's pretty much a straight seam runner. It's one thing I have never gotten about Philly. Everybody knows whats coming, yet nobody can stop it.

[fringe]

Yeah he half asses most his routes, its part of the reason Dunta Robinson layed him out. Every once in awhile he will catch a quick slant and make a guy miss taking it to the house. He can run the deep post pretty well but, He's pretty much a straight seam runner. It's one thing I have never gotten about Philly. Everybody knows whats coming, yet nobody can stop it.

 

Defenses use their energy on stopping Vick. Leave the corners on an island sometimes.

[Nas]

Yeah he half asses most his routes, its part of the reason Dunta Robinson layed him out. Every once in awhile he will catch a quick slant and make a guy miss taking it to the house. He can run the deep post pretty well but, He's pretty much a straight seam runner. It's one thing I have never gotten about Philly. Everybody knows whats coming, yet nobody can stop it.

 

To be fair Philly airs it out a lot.. of course what we see on the highlights are ones that are caught.

[Allstarjim]

Great points about Jackson. But one thing that he does bring that we sorely need is his ability to be a lethal punt returner, something we all know to well. Same goes for Bryant. As a strict receiver, I think Nicks is better than Jackson... but Jackson brings that extra dimension in the return game that we don't have really with anyone. I wouldn't even put Hixon there.

 

I just hope Nicks can stay healthy for a full season next year. He could've put up some pretty special numbers had he not been hurt... as it was, he still put up pro bowl type numbers.