Evaluating Eli at 30: You’ll Miss Him When He’s Gone

[JackStroud]

The Giants passing records are not that monumental

 

I thought Fran Tarkington was the best QB we ever had with YA Tittle second.........both had more control over the balls final destination.......Eli blows hot and cold.....you never know who is going to show up any given day

 

He's still young and can yet improve

 

He really misses Plaxico, who made easy catches of errant passes

[Steitzenhaus]

We will tell our kids about that '07 playoff run and THE DRIVE that took down the best team that I have ever seen in my lifetime until this point. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Yes, he can be inconsistent from game to game and at times he can look downright clumsy but look at the other choices in that draft. They're both extremely talented, perhaps more than Eli. Rivers hasn't gotten his team over the hump and is another McNabb until he shows me otherwise. Ben has two rings and is a very good quarterback but can't seem to keep his dick in his pants and has embarrassed the entire Steeler franchise. I'll take our dork.

[Nas]

We will tell our kids about that '07 playoff run and THE DRIVE that took down the best team that I have ever seen in my lifetime until this point. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Yes, he can be inconsistent from game to game and at times he can look downright clumsy but look at the other choices in that draft. They're both extremely talented, perhaps more than Eli. Rivers hasn't gotten his team over the hump and is another McNabb until he shows me otherwise. Ben has two rings and is a very good quarterback but can't seem to keep his dick in his pants and has embarrassed the entire Steeler franchise. I'll take our dork.

 

Amen.. I'll take our dork any day.

[JackStroud]

We will tell our kids about that '07 playoff run and THE DRIVE that took down the best team that I have ever seen in my lifetime until this point. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Yes, he can be inconsistent from game to game and at times he can look downright clumsy but look at the other choices in that draft. They're both extremely talented, perhaps more than Eli. Rivers hasn't gotten his team over the hump and is another McNabb until he shows me otherwise. Ben has two rings and is a very good quarterback but can't seem to keep his dick in his pants and has embarrassed the entire Steeler franchise. I'll take our dork.

 

So your putting the entire SB run in Eli's lap, and laurels

 

What about the defense, what about Jacobs and Bradshaw, the OLine

 

I do not remember Eli lighting up the scoreboard that year and carrying the team the way Brady does in NE..........nor do I remember Rivers having a Defense like ours

 

I think most football experts would rank Eli a solid 3rd from that draft class and we had Rivers in the palm of our hands

 

Rivers would have been a better personality fit for NY, and I do not care about what football players do in their spare time.....short of committing bodily harm on another..........I could care less about their behavior patterns...short of MMA they already play the most violent sport on Earth.

[fishgutmartyr]

The Giants passing records are not that monumental

 

I thought Fran Tarkington was the best QB we ever had with YA Tittle second.........both had more control over the balls final destination.......Eli blows hot and cold.....you never know who is going to show up any given day

 

He's still young and can yet improve

 

He really misses Plaxico, who made easy catches of errant passes

Tittle's record stood for 20 years, and was set in a 13 game season. No one broke it playing less than 16. That's pretty fucking monumental. With the exception of Beuerlein and Culpepper, every QB that has tied or surpassed 36 TDs is a hall of famer or will be.

 

Still, even with our less than monumental records, the fact remains that no one has broken them yet. The person that does pretty much is worth remembering, right?

 

Fran Tarkington? The guy had his best years on the Vikings, and he never took that last step. His teams were utterly dominated in their SBs no matter who the AFC threw at them.

[JackStroud]

Fran T was awesome with the Giants.............Wellington could not handle a guy who scrambled......it was considered Girly back then

 

Check out Fran's 5 years with the Giants......and this does not include his running yardage and scrambles to avoid sacks

 

he was UNDOUBTEDLY twice the QB Eli is/was/will be.......his average QB rating was in the low 80's........but it was the scrambling that sets him apart from ANY other QB who ever lived including Michael Vick

 

check out his youtube highlights sometime......when Fran played he carried the entire team which otherwise sucked- it was Fran and Bob Tucker and 51 nobodies

 

You cannot just compare numbers here.......Trarkington played with some of the worst teams the Giants ever assembled......Eli with some of the best

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TarkFr00.htm

[Tempest]

We over analyze failure, not success.

 

i agree as well not every interception was his fault. but not every TD pass is a result of his prowess either. Sometimes he throws a 5 yard screen that turns into a 50 yd TD. Do we analyze those away? When it comes to Eli, it seems an extraordinary effort is put into explaining away his gaffs.

All QB's have tips and WR's not running the right routes. In comparison, he threw the most INT's. Live with it. I still love him. And you.

 

 

[Steitzenhaus]

So your putting the entire SB run in Eli's lap, and laurels

 

What about the defense, what about Jacobs and Bradshaw, the OLine

 

I do not remember Eli lighting up the scoreboard that year and carrying the team the way Brady does in NE..........nor do I remember Rivers having a Defense like ours

 

I think most football experts would rank Eli a solid 3rd from that draft class and we had Rivers in the palm of our hands

 

Rivers would have been a better personality fit for NY, and I do not care about what football players do in their spare time.....short of committing bodily harm on another..........I could care less about their behavior patterns...short of MMA they already play the most violent sport on Earth.

 

I'm not putting all of it in his lap but there is no guarantee the Giants would have a Super Bowl championship with Rivers or Roethlisberger at this point. I agree that talent wise he is probably third out of that group but it isn't as simple as just plugging one of the two other guys in and assuming they would have more success.

[JackStroud]

true I'll agree with that

 

One thing Eli did that year was limit turnovers and he was a good game manager

[Guest StrahansGap]

Not me. I won't miss him one bit. I'll always appreciate and respect the Superbowl run and win in 07, but I won't miss him.

[Nas]

Not me. I won't miss him one bit. I'll always appreciate and respect the Superbowl run and win in 07, but I won't miss him.

 

Don't know bro.. Grass is always greener on the other side. Before Eli..who did we have? When was the last really good QB we had? Simms? I was too young to really watch him play.. but from what I hear Eli has more than surpassed him. How far back do we need to go to find a QB the Giants had who's better than Eli? Not in my lifetime.

 

And then we hear about Rodgers and Rivers and Ben... and you know what.. Eli is up there with those 3.

[JackStroud]

Don't know bro.. Grass is always greener on the other side. Before Eli..who did we have? When was the last really good QB we had? Simms? I was too young to really watch him play.. but from what I hear Eli has more than surpassed him. How far back do we need to go to find a QB the Giants had who's better than Eli? Not in my lifetime.

 

And then we hear about Rodgers and Rivers and Ben... and you know what.. Eli is up there with those 3.

 

Eli was not the problem in 2010

 

Ball security was the problem.........until these knuckleheads learn to hold the ball on their chests with both hands we are doomed for more of this

 

Another reason to get rid of coughlin........he cured Tiki of this disease but does not even address the issue as a problem with Bradshaw and Jacobs.......if they are being taught anything it goes in one ear and out the other

[Storm]

Eli was not the problem in 2010

 

Ball security was the problem.........until these knuckleheads learn to hold the ball on their chests with both hands we are doomed for more of this

 

Another reason to get rid of coughlin........he cured Tiki of this disease but does not even address the issue as a problem with Bradshaw and Jacobs.......if they are being taught anything it goes in one ear and out the other

 

Just because he threw for some yards and hit 30+ TDs doesn't change the fact he still turned the ball over 30 times...on his own. I don't care if there were tipped balls or a few that the wide receiver may or may not have ran the wrong route, your quarterback still turned the ball over 30 times. Eli and his turnovers WERE largely the problem. So you're claiming ball control was the single biggest reason that 2010 was a failure yet are failing to call out the biggest culprit. Makes sense.

 

The sooner some of you realize that Eli is not even close to being on the same level as the more talented quarterbacks in the league and realize that he just makes stupid rookie mistakes over and over again and that he's pretty inaccurate, unable to avoid the rush, and constantly forces passes that aren't there, the better off you'll be in regards to the Giants. Maybe some of you will even avoid the heartburn feeling of a Giant's game day once you realize that Eli is merely a slightly better than average quarterback who needs a quality, ball control running game and an EXCELLENT offensive line to succeed. Possibly, you'll start setting yourself up for the failure and the complete "WTF" moments that Eli brings every Sunday.

[Sephiroth]

I'm not sure there's anybody on this board who was tougher on Eli his first three years with the Giants, but I have to admit I could not have been more wrong.

 

In the NFC, outside of Brees and perhaps Rodgers (who's one sack away from a concussion at all times), who would you rather have as your QB? Go down the list... there aren't many guys out there.

 

In the AFC, Peyton and Brady are locks, but both of those guys are one-in-a-decade players. Who else is clearly head and shoulders above Eli? Rivers? Rapistberger?

 

Take a look at some of the others. Cutler has never won shit, doesn't inspire, and wouldn't cut it under the New York lights. Vick is an overrated asshole that looks like Michael Vick come playoff time (those were some AWFUL misses last weekend). Sanchez might have "it" but is young and still unproven, and has to lean on his awesome defense. How has Vince Young panned out? What about Matt Leinert? Matt Stafford?

 

Eli has his faults, but believe it or not, most NFL quarterbacks do. He hasn't missed a single game as a starter... not one. You can't say that for any of the guys listed above except for his brother. His numbers have improved every year since he's been here... he's in the top five for both yards and TDs this season (yes, I know the INTs suck). His even-tempered demeanor doesn't make great headlines, but it does win us games (and sometimes Super Bowls) with under 2 minutes to play... and he's able to shrug off absurd comments from the New York Media and the Tiki Barbers of the world. He's got a ring, a Pro Bowl berth, and a Super Bowl MVP title. How many other QBs in the league can say that right now?

 

Yes, it would be nice to have a Brees, Peyton, or Brady. Outside of that, Eli is the best... or at least even... with the "second tier" guys.

[RandolphScott]

It took the Giants 11 years to fully find a replacement for Phil Simms.

 

Kent Graham, Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Mike Cherry, Kerry Collins and Jessie Palmer started games before we had Manning.

 

For all his faults and believe me, he does have a lot.It's going to be a sad day when we have to look for a replacement.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Yeah I agree....Collins was an adequate replacement until he got a permanent case of the Yips against the Ravens in the Superbowl....his high water mark was the NFC Championship Game against the Vikes...he was exposed in the Superbowl as a modern day Jaworski....feeling the pressure even before the ball was snapped....especially in that Superbowl.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I'm not sure there's anybody on this board who was tougher on Eli his first three years with the Giants, but I have to admit I could not have been more wrong.

 

In the NFC, outside of Brees and perhaps Rodgers (who's one sack away from a concussion at all times), who would you rather have as your QB? Go down the list... there aren't many guys out there.

 

In the AFC, Peyton and Brady are locks, but both of those guys are one-in-a-decade players. Who else is clearly head and shoulders above Eli? Rivers? Rapistberger?

 

Take a look at some of the others. Cutler has never won shit, doesn't inspire, and wouldn't cut it under the New York lights. Vick is an overrated asshole that looks like Michael Vick come playoff time (those were some AWFUL misses last weekend). Sanchez might have "it" but is young and still unproven, and has to lean on his awesome defense. How has Vince Young panned out? What about Matt Leinert? Matt Stafford?

 

Eli has his faults, but believe it or not, most NFL quarterbacks do. He hasn't missed a single game as a starter... not one. You can't say that for any of the guys listed above except for his brother. His numbers have improved every year since he's been here... he's in the top five for both yards and TDs this season (yes, I know the INTs suck). His even-tempered demeanor doesn't make great headlines, but it does win us games (and sometimes Super Bowls) with under 2 minutes to play... and he's able to shrug off absurd comments from the New York Media and the Tiki Barbers of the world. He's got a ring, a Pro Bowl berth, and a Super Bowl MVP title. How many other QBs in the league can say that right now?

 

Yes, it would be nice to have a Brees, Peyton, or Brady. Outside of that, Eli is the best... or at least even... with the "second tier" guys.

 

 

I agree...and he is definitely the type who needs a proven and good QB coach; and oh my GOD a coordinator who schemes to his strengths....

[RandolphScott]

Yeah I agree....Collins was an adequate replacement until he got a permanent case of the Yips against the Ravens in the Superbowl....his high water mark was the NFC Championship Game against the Vikes...he was exposed in the Superbowl as a modern day Jaworski....feeling the pressure even before the ball was snapped....especially in that Superbowl.

 

 

Collins was a good QB, but the Statue of Liberty could beat him in a foot race and if he threw an interception...he just wasn't able to shake it off and drive the team down the field on the next possession.

 

That being said, he turned his life around when he was here and was nothing but a good citizen before he was released.

 

I never have that feeling with Manning. Yes, he makes some boneheaded mistakes from time to time..as all QBs do...did you see that awful interception Brady threw last night? But I never get the feeling we're ever OUT of a game when he's back there.

[RandolphScott]

I agree...and he is definitely the type who needs a proven and good QB coach; and oh my GOD a coordinator who schemes to his strengths....

 

I'm not sure if you read Ernie Accorsi's book, the GM...but in it he writes about how the Ole Miss staff asks too much of Eli Manning. They asked him to line everyone up, make the checks accordingly, etc. He goes "this is a guy who you just have to let play."

 

Then we go and do a complete 180 and do the thing he writes against him doing.

 

I'd love to see him in a system like Pittsburgh or San Diego when all the QB does is point at who the blizters are.

[JMFP]

I'm not sure if you read Ernie Accorsi's book, the GM...but in it he writes about how the Ole Miss staff asks too much of Eli Manning. They asked him to line everyone up, make the checks accordingly, etc. He goes "this is a guy who you just have to let play."

 

Then we go and do a complete 180 and do the thing he writes against him doing.

 

I'd love to see him in a system like Pittsburgh or San Diego when all the QB does is point at who the blizters are.

 

I agree....we've got him in this hyper-complex, plodding system.

 

He is so much more effective when he can improvise.

 

I remember when Warner was the starter....he was getting sacked left and right , and the knock on the giants line was they couldn't pass protect. Then, Eli was put in, and the sacks went down dramatically.

 

The guy can read defenses, go through his progressions rapidly, and deliver the ball. Yeah, he's an awful scrambler, and he can make some poor decisions. But he's lead this team to more 4th quarter comebacks than I can remember.

[RandolphScott]

I agree....we've got him in this hyper-complex, plodding system.

 

He is so much more effective when he can improvise.

 

 

Yup, I agree 100 percent with that. Eli just needs to stop thinking and just play. It's what every athlete needs to do.

 

On the inside of my golf hats I have written in em: K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple, stupid."

[Nas]

Just because he threw for some yards and hit 30+ TDs doesn't change the fact he still turned the ball over 30 times...on his own. I don't care if there were tipped balls or a few that the wide receiver may or may not have ran the wrong route, your quarterback still turned the ball over 30 times. Eli and his turnovers WERE largely the problem. So you're claiming ball control was the single biggest reason that 2010 was a failure yet are failing to call out the biggest culprit. Makes sense.

 

The sooner some of you realize that Eli is not even close to being on the same level as the more talented quarterbacks in the league and realize that he just makes stupid rookie mistakes over and over again and that he's pretty inaccurate, unable to avoid the rush, and constantly forces passes that aren't there, the better off you'll be in regards to the Giants. Maybe some of you will even avoid the heartburn feeling of a Giant's game day once you realize that Eli is merely a slightly better than average quarterback who needs a quality, ball control running game and an EXCELLENT offensive line to succeed. Possibly, you'll start setting yourself up for the failure and the complete "WTF" moments that Eli brings every Sunday.

 

I think that can be said about every QB in the league... what QB thrives without an O-Line? I think Eli is better than average.. a little more than slightly. Has he been inconsistent.. yes.

[Nas]

I'm not sure there's anybody on this board who was tougher on Eli his first three years with the Giants, but I have to admit I could not have been more wrong.

 

In the NFC, outside of Brees and perhaps Rodgers (who's one sack away from a concussion at all times), who would you rather have as your QB? Go down the list... there aren't many guys out there.

 

In the AFC, Peyton and Brady are locks, but both of those guys are one-in-a-decade players. Who else is clearly head and shoulders above Eli? Rivers? Rapistberger?

 

Take a look at some of the others. Cutler has never won shit, doesn't inspire, and wouldn't cut it under the New York lights. Vick is an overrated asshole that looks like Michael Vick come playoff time (those were some AWFUL misses last weekend). Sanchez might have "it" but is young and still unproven, and has to lean on his awesome defense. How has Vince Young panned out? What about Matt Leinert? Matt Stafford?

 

Eli has his faults, but believe it or not, most NFL quarterbacks do. He hasn't missed a single game as a starter... not one. You can't say that for any of the guys listed above except for his brother. His numbers have improved every year since he's been here... he's in the top five for both yards and TDs this season (yes, I know the INTs suck). His even-tempered demeanor doesn't make great headlines, but it does win us games (and sometimes Super Bowls) with under 2 minutes to play... and he's able to shrug off absurd comments from the New York Media and the Tiki Barbers of the world. He's got a ring, a Pro Bowl berth, and a Super Bowl MVP title. How many other QBs in the league can say that right now?

 

Yes, it would be nice to have a Brees, Peyton, or Brady. Outside of that, Eli is the best... or at least even... with the "second tier" guys.

 

:clap:

[RandolphScott]

Yeah, I mean if you don't have a half way decent offense line...your not gonna do shit in this league.

[Sephiroth]

Yeah I agree....Collins was an adequate replacement until he got a permanent case of the Yips against the Ravens in the Superbowl....his high water mark was the NFC Championship Game against the Vikes...he was exposed in the Superbowl as a modern day Jaworski....feeling the pressure even before the ball was snapped....especially in that Superbowl.

 

 

You know, it's funny you say that. I know I'm in the minority here, but I actually gave Collins a lot of credit in that Super Bowl despite the picks.

 

Kerry Collins knew what he was, as did the legendary Ravens defense: a pure pocket passer with litte-to-no mobility behind a finesse o-line. Collins' average time in the pocket was something like 2.4 seconds in that game... at least he was tossing the ball up and giving his recievers a chance to make a play, which they were unable to do. He thew one REALLY bad pick in the second half, but at least he was trying... after Ike Hilliard and Tiki Barber had been planted by Ray Lewis, they were both clearly hearing footsteps. Kerry at least hung in there with a seperated shoulder and tried to make some things happen.