Can someone please talk me down from the ledge?

[Sephiroth]

Honestly, I can't remember feeling as bad after a season as this one in 30+ years of being a Giants fan.

 

Three weeks ago we were talking #1 seed, but a historic collapse to our hated rivals followed by a lifeless game ruined the season for us.... another December to forget, another year wasted with a (I believe) very talented squad.

 

Now, the one thing that most of us were hoping to hang our hats on for next year... a coaching change (to Cowher, most had hoped) has been pulled out from under us, leaving the bad taste of another blown chance to linger all offseason.

 

Seriously, what do we, as fans, have to feel good about with this team? Does anyone REALLY see this squad, with these clownish coaches, finishing better than 8-8 next year? What "big offseason move" is going to light a fire under this team's ass... because I don't think keeping Coughlin in place is it, honestly.

[Storm]

In total agreement. Plus we learned what a total bullshitter Mara is with last season's "win or else" ultimatum that goes unfulfilled. Fucking windbag suits.

[BlueInCanada]

Jump.

 

I'll still be a fan of this team. *shrugs*

[Herc]

nothing. maybe everything can break absolutely perfect for us again, throw in a few helmet catches and we'll win another superbowl despite our average head coach who was hired for his discipline but has presided over squads that have led the league in penalties in the past and now turnovers this season.

 

it's one thing to keep him, we did go 10-6 after all, but it's another thing to immediately tell us he's staying. they aren't even going to think it over. clearly mara is not as mad about the way the season ended as the fans are--all that tough talk and warnings at the end of last season was nothing but hot air unless he really thinks 1 extra win with a softer schedule is satisfying enough

[fishgutmartyr]

Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, but I think we're a couple linebackers and a special teams coach away from a superbowl. The amount of turnovers this year are just too large to think that it will happen again--this season was an outlier.

[RandolphScott]

Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, but I think we're a couple linebackers and a special teams coach away from a superbowl. The amount of turnovers this year are just too large to think that it will happen again--this season was an outlier.

 

This.

 

Oh and a new punter.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Honestly, I can't remember feeling as bad after a season as this one in 30+ years of being a Giants fan.

 

Three weeks ago we were talking #1 seed, but a historic collapse to our hated rivals followed by a lifeless game ruined the season for us.... another December to forget, another year wasted with a (I believe) very talented squad.

 

Now, the one thing that most of us were hoping to hang our hats on for next year... a coaching change (to Cowher, most had hoped) has been pulled out from under us, leaving the bad taste of another blown chance to linger all offseason.

 

Seriously, what do we, as fans, have to feel good about with this team? Does anyone REALLY see this squad, with these clownish coaches, finishing better than 8-8 next year? What "big offseason move" is going to light a fire under this team's ass... because I don't think keeping Coughlin in place is it, honestly.

 

 

Well I wrote about how this was shades of 1988 about to happen before we met Green Bay. That was the other time the Giants were 10-6 and stayed home with thumbs up their asses watching the 69-ers "lay down like dogs" to the Rams. But we allowed that fucking loser Bill Walton and his bullshit Jets team beat us in the last seconds. But nothing can compare to that historic collapse 2 weeks ago. 8 minutes to go and we are talking number 1 or 2 seed. Now we wait another 8 months for this circus to start up again.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

In total agreement. Plus we learned what a total bullshitter Mara is with last season's "win or else" ultimatum that goes unfulfilled. Fucking windbag suits.

 

 

Typical owner...could give a fuck what the fans think or want. The only way to get across to them is to stop going to the games. And that happened only once before....and that took THE FUMBLE for people to wake up. Unfortunately after the Philly Debacle we still had a chance to make the playoffs...if that had been our kill shot then well then I think it would have been a possibly different reaction. It might have been more of the villagers looking to burn down Frankenstein's monster in the windmill.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

nothing. maybe everything can break absolutely perfect for us again, throw in a few helmet catches and we'll win another superbowl despite our average head coach who was hired for his discipline but has presided over squads that have led the league in penalties in the past and now turnovers this season.

 

it's one thing to keep him, we did go 10-6 after all, but it's another thing to immediately tell us he's staying. they aren't even going to think it over. clearly mara is not as mad about the way the season ended as the fans are--all that tough talk and warnings at the end of last season was nothing but hot air unless he really thinks 1 extra win with a softer schedule is satisfying enough

 

 

Exactly....what is the need to scream out to the hinterlands....5 seconds after the season is over. Jesus Christ can we wait until a game or two is in the playoffs....give me a fucking break. Any of us fuck up at our jobs; I don't care how long we are there and our past record we are not going to get immediately patted on the back and told how great we are.

[Balloonknot]

I was one calling for Coughlin's head too, But. I like him as a coach. But our Special Teams and Offensive coaches need to go.

[Nas]

How many former SB winning coaches have gone to coach again and won a SB again? Cowher is the answer? Really? Right now Tom is the best viable option.. if you want to look what coaching changes do, look no further than the Redskins.

 

Disappointing season? You bet. This season will always be known for the collapse... nothing else matters. It's over.

[BIGBLUE01]

Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, but I think we're a couple linebackers and a special teams coach away from a superbowl. The amount of turnovers this year are just too large to think that it will happen again--this season was an outlier.

Agreed.

[ksm7]

How many former SB winning coaches have gone to coach again and won a SB again? Cowher is the answer? Really? Right now Tom is the best viable option.. if you want to look what coaching changes do, look no further than the Redskins.

 

Disappointing season? You bet. This season will always be known for the collapse... nothing else matters. It's over.

 

the dog would agree. again, not the popular opinion, but maybe this team has overachieved with coughlin. if you look at the teams in the playoffs, the dog is not so sure the giants have as much talent as everyone thinks right now. take the travesty that is seattle out of the equation (although it wouldn't surprise the dog if they pulled an upset round 1, as seattle is a tough place to play).

 

the pakers have struggled at times, but that is a team with an immense amount of talent on both sides and the dog believes to be a very legit contendor. atlanta has a very good QB, strong running attack, possibly the best WR in the game now, and a stingy defense. philly's offense is explosive and could carry them, and vick can make up for andy reid's inevitable poor coaching game that he has every year in the playoffs. to their credit, they identified their biggest weakness (o-line) and utilized vick to offset it. chicago is a bit of a wild card as they play very good defense and cutler, when on, can be as effective as any QB. people are down on the saints, but they are as talented as they were when they won it all. when you look at those teams, the dog would say the giants aren't quite there as far as talent goes. 10-6 is probably slightly above what the expectations should have been.

[JackStroud]

There is nothing we can do about it boys, we do not own the team. Were just the suckers that root for them.

We have already proven you can win a SB with a slightly less senile Coughlin.

 

I do not see good things happening next year for the Giants. They are not mentally tough, or smart. the coaching staff is definitely not smart.

 

New England is the blueprint for a successful organization- they and the Colts. Do we look anything like them? The answer is no.

 

We are not like them. We got on a roll and thanks to a miracle catch, Spagnolo, and some player leadership we no longer have, we won one Super Bowl.....The Giants generally go 20 yrs between SuperBowl victories with their bizarre HC coaching decisions.

 

The only thing you can hope for is that Jerry Reese, the only top tier professional we have in our management ranks comes up with another monster offseason and plugs the holes- LBer, OL, DT, and the right bodies to play special teams.

 

That we cut down on the fumbles (almost a given, you cannot fumble that much 2 seasons in a row) and yet keep up the recovered turnovers we forced this year.

 

I remember the huge impact Justin Tuck had on ST as a Rookie- he was killing people, the fans were crowing what did we need another DE for?, and Tuck was a huge force on ST (I saw the way he was pancaking people and predicted he would one day be a pro bowl player- and was laughed at on the GMB)

 

One guy like that can change the whole atmosphere on ST. Harry Carson had that kind of rookie impact, as did LT.

 

Things could be worse- you could be fans of Cleveland, Detroit, or the Panthers, AZ, SFO.

 

We are destined to wander the purgatory of mediocrity for many years unless one of those magical players arrives and ignites a revival.

 

Meanwhile the OL is aging fast, and the wheels will soon come off there unless a lot of work is done there and some of these veterans ruthlessly discarded. We have all seen in the past how important an OL is.......without one your dead.......the infamous Coughlin shuffle against the Eagles proved it over again.

 

Eli is getting better but he really really needs to keep the ball at chest level or lower on those over the middle passes......I dont know what his issue is there but BTW Phil Simms could not slow down his velocity and throw short either.......some guys just cannot......not everyone is Joe Montana

 

Go on Utube and watch some Fran Tarkington highlights if you want to see the short pass, scrambling maestro of all time......and Wellington Fnnnnn Mara traded him back to Minn after two seasons.....that should of tipped me off right there how the Maras think........he embarrassed them by not playing football like everyone else......people thought Fran was not Man-ing up with all his scrambling.

 

Mara thinking- Win if you can but never ever wander off the yellow line down the middle of the road......this is why Michael Vick plays for Philly and not us, and why you will never see Plaxico again.

 

Its rare you have so many can't miss HC's available- Cowher, Gruden, Billick, Fox......we will pass and wait till Tom falls face first on the turf after giving himself a heart attack with his continual rages

(just kidding but really all that screaming and gesturing is embarrassing- especially since the players have tuned him out).....with our luck no one will be available then

[BlueInCanada]

the dog would agree. again, not the popular opinion, but maybe this team has overachieved with coughlin. if you look at the teams in the playoffs, the dog is not so sure the giants have as much talent as everyone thinks right now. take the travesty that is seattle out of the equation (although it wouldn't surprise the dog if they pulled an upset round 1, as seattle is a tough place to play).

 

the pakers have struggled at times, but that is a team with an immense amount of talent on both sides and the dog believes to be a very legit contendor. atlanta has a very good QB, strong running attack, possibly the best WR in the game now, and a stingy defense. philly's offense is explosive and could carry them, and vick can make up for andy reid's inevitable poor coaching game that he has every year in the playoffs. to their credit, they identified their biggest weakness (o-line) and utilized vick to offset it. chicago is a bit of a wild card as they play very good defense and cutler, when on, can be as effective as any QB. people are down on the saints, but they are as talented as they were when they won it all. when you look at those teams, the dog would say the giants aren't quite there as far as talent goes. 10-6 is probably slightly above what the expectations should have been.

 

Holy fuck mark this day down on the calender, but I agree with the Dog.

 

It would of been nice to see the Giants in the playoffs but in reality I feel that if a team can't control it's own way into the post season i.e. relying on the Bears to beat the Packers then they shouldn't get in in the first place. This season has some things you can look back at and atleast feel like the Giants are still in the right direction. The WR core is still young and has alot of depth to it, I think we will see a battle with Clayton/Cruz/Hegan/ect to try and fill in the positions behind Smith, Nicks and Manningham. Our secondary is probably the best secondary the Giants have had in the last 20 years, coming from a number of seasons ago when we had guys like Will Demps and Frank Walker starting back there. The D-line has shown that it still can get the job done and JPP looks to be improving, he's still very raw but atleast he's headed in the right direction.

 

I think you can look back on the team and pick out things that are actually something to feel good about, but right now with everyone being as disappointed as they are it's hard to see anything past the fact we missed the playoffs for the second year in a row.

 

Maybe it's just me but I'm willing to wait for the off-season and draft to come around before I start saying how bad we will be with what we have now. Call me a die hard fan but I'm willing to go with whatever Reese and Co decide doing into next season as far as coaches and players.

[Allstarjim]

How many former SB winning coaches have gone to coach again and won a SB again? Cowher is the answer? Really? Right now Tom is the best viable option.. if you want to look what coaching changes do, look no further than the Redskins.

 

Disappointing season? You bet. This season will always be known for the collapse... nothing else matters. It's over.

 

Nas, the answer is 12. And those 12 coaches have accounted for 29 Superbowl titles... THAT'S 29 OUT OF 44 TITLES... can we put that ridiculous argument to bed now? Cowher had built a consistent winner in Pittsburgh, and Tomlin's SB win was made mostly with Cowher players. 9 times out of 15 seasons Cowher's team had double digit wins. 8 times they won the division. 3 times out of Cowher's 15 seasons they had a losing record... THREE. His career coaching record is 149-90-1. He took his teams deep into the playoffs with quarterbacks named Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and won the Super Bowl with a rookie Ben Roethlisberger who more or less was a game manager at the time. Cowher is a damn good head football coach.

 

Anyways, here are the SuperBowl winning coaches that have won more than one championship:

 

Vince Lombardi

Tom Landry

Don Shula

Chuck Noll (4)

Tom Flores

Bill Walsh (3)

Joe Gibbs (3)

Bill Parcells

Jimmy Johnson

George Seifert

Mike Shanahan

Bill Belichick (3)

[BlueInCanada]

Nas, the answer is 12. And those 12 coaches have accounted for 29 Superbowl titles... THAT'S 29 OUT OF 44 TITLES... can we put that ridiculous argument to bed now? Cowher had built a consistent winner in Pittsburgh, and Tomlin's SB win was made mostly with Cowher players. 9 times out of 15 seasons Cowher's team had double digit wins. 8 times they won the division. 3 times out of Cowher's 15 seasons they had a losing record... THREE. His career coaching record is 149-90-1. He took his teams deep into the playoffs with quarterbacks named Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and won the Super Bowl with a rookie Ben Roethlisberger who more or less was a game manager at the time. Cowher is a damn good head football coach.

 

 

And even though he did all this he only has one SB to his name where he defeated the mighty Seahawks by paying off the refs.

 

Cowher is not a good football coach, he constantly chocked in big playoff games, it took him his entire career just to win one SB and even then it was with a very favoring regular season schedule and if the Colts kicker didnt shank a FG attempt they wouldn't of even been in that SB.

 

Cowher has had a decent coaching career taken his team into the playoffs 10/15 times but the only difference between him and Norv Turner, is that he got lucky enough to match up against the Seahawks in the SB.

[JackStroud]

I'm wondering if Coughlin can pry Brunnel away from the Jets.....did they have a good relationship in Jacksonville?

 

The Jets should ride Brunnel to the SB.......The Sanchizes bad shoulder gives Ryan the perfect excuse.

 

Sanchez is awful.....he could never sniff a SB.

[ksm7]

Nas, the answer is 12. And those 12 coaches have accounted for 29 Superbowl titles... THAT'S 29 OUT OF 44 TITLES... can we put that ridiculous argument to bed now? Cowher had built a consistent winner in Pittsburgh, and Tomlin's SB win was made mostly with Cowher players. 9 times out of 15 seasons Cowher's team had double digit wins. 8 times they won the division. 3 times out of Cowher's 15 seasons they had a losing record... THREE. His career coaching record is 149-90-1. He took his teams deep into the playoffs with quarterbacks named Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and won the Super Bowl with a rookie Ben Roethlisberger who more or less was a game manager at the time. Cowher is a damn good head football coach.

 

Anyways, here are the SuperBowl winning coaches that have won more than one championship:

 

Vince Lombardi

Tom Landry

Don Shula

Chuck Noll (4)

Tom Flores

Bill Walsh (3)

Joe Gibbs (3)

Bill Parcells

Jimmy Johnson

George Seifert

Mike Shanahan

Bill Belichick (3)

 

the dog is thinking you are missing Nas' point. it is not coaches that have won multiple SB's, it is coaches that have left the game and come back with another team to win it all again. aside from vermeal who came back to win it all with the rams after so many years away, the dog isn't sure it has been done.

 

cowher won the SB once in 13 or 14 years. he had playoff teams almost every year and lost, many times at home. how is that any different than what coughlin has accomplished in his tenure with the giants? and the steelers won it all again with a new coach a couple of years later. the talent was there. the dog likes cowher, but he may be a tad overrated...

[Allstarjim]

And even though he did all this he only has one SB to his name where he defeated the mighty Seahawks by paying off the refs.

 

Cowher is not a good football coach, he constantly chocked in big playoff games, it took him his entire career just to win one SB and even then it was with a very favoring regular season schedule and if the Colts kicker didnt shank a FG attempt they wouldn't of even been in that SB.

 

Cowher has had a decent coaching career taken his team into the playoffs 10/15 times but the only difference between him and Norv Turner, is that he got lucky enough to match up against the Seahawks in the SB.

 

You must be nuts. A lot of cry babies talked about that call in the Seahawks - Steelers SB but in the end the Seahawks lost by 11, Hasselbeck threw a costly interception and never was able to really move the ball against the Steelers defense, and the Seahawks didn't play well enough to win. What was the controversy over, anyways? The 1 yard TD run by Roethlisberger that was upheld by review on 3 and goal from the 1 yard line? Does anyone think that they wouldn't have gotten that TD anyway on 4th and an inch? Bottom line is that Roethlisberger scored, that play was at the end of the first half, and the Seahawks had another entire half to win that game as they were only down 7-3. Seahawks fans cried about that game but the Steelers were the better team that day.

 

Anyhow, how do you knock a guy for taking those teams he had to the playoffs and only winning one SB? 5 times he took his teams to the AFC Championship game or SuperBowl and lost... to Hall of Fame opponents like the triplets in Dallas, Jim Kelly and the Bills, Brady and Belichick TWICE and John Elway's Broncos.... AGAIN, the guy had Neil O'Donnell at QB! His teams were overacheivers, and I can't believe anyone would diminish Coach Cowher's accomplishments after we just watched a team that had a lot of phenomenal pieces underacheive.

 

Cowher NEVER had a QB like Eli in his prime, but his teams constantly just kicked their opponents ASS. Can't imagine why we would want that here.

[Allstarjim]

the dog is thinking you are missing Nas' point. it is not coaches that have won multiple SB's, it is coaches that have left the game and come back with another team to win it all again. aside from vermeal who came back to win it all with the rams after so many years away, the dog isn't sure it has been done.

 

cowher won the SB once in 13 or 14 years. he had playoff teams almost every year and lost, many times at home. how is that any different than what coughlin has accomplished in his tenure with the giants? and the steelers won it all again with a new coach a couple of years later. the talent was there. the dog likes cowher, but he may be a tad overrated...

 

 

That's another stupid argument and yes it has been done by Tom Flores.... not sure if you're just an idiot or not, Dog, but once a coach wins a SuperBowl with a team, he is likely to stay there.... It's not like a lot of those SuperBowl winning coaches were fired... and the ones that were just retired many times. You're talking about the smallest of sample sizes... give me a coach that has won consistently year after year over a 15 year period ANY DAY.

[ksm7]

That's another stupid argument and yes it has been done by Tom Flores.... not sure if you're just an idiot or not, Dog, but once a coach wins a SuperBowl with a team, he is likely to stay there.... It's not like a lot of those SuperBowl winning coaches were fired... and the ones that were just retired many times. You're talking about the smallest of sample sizes... give me a coach that has won consistently year after year over a 15 year period ANY DAY.

 

hmmm...very nasty you are. the dog was simply calrifying the point nas was probably making. tom flores to the dog's knowledge never was a head coach anywhere but oakland. how does that work here? not sure if it isn't a legit argument, but since it has not often been done, the dog is just saying. coughlin has won consistently over a number of years as well. his record is not unlike cowhers, except that he has done it in two places rather than one...cowher may be a good coach, but everyone wants to ordain him, and one super bowl over 15 years and many disappointing playoff losses in that time doesn't speak to NFL coaching royalty in the dog's mind...especially since his replacement won it all two years later. the dog knew you might be all fired up today, but really, this attack was so unwarrented...deep breathing.

[BlueInCanada]

You must be nuts. A lot of cry babies talked about that call in the Seahawks - Steelers SB but in the end the Seahawks lost by 11, Hasselbeck threw a costly interception and never was able to really move the ball against the Steelers defense, and the Seahawks didn't play well enough to win. What was the controversy over, anyways? The 1 yard TD run by Roethlisberger that was upheld by review on 3 and goal from the 1 yard line? Does anyone think that they wouldn't have gotten that TD anyway on 4th and an inch? Bottom line is that Roethlisberger scored, that play was at the end of the first half, and the Seahawks had another entire half to win that game as they were only down 7-3. Seahawks fans cried about that game but the Steelers were the better team that day.

 

Anyhow, how do you knock a guy for taking those teams he had to the playoffs and only winning one SB? 5 times he took his teams to the AFC Championship game or SuperBowl and lost... to Hall of Fame opponents like the triplets in Dallas, Jim Kelly and the Bills, Brady and Belichick TWICE and John Elway's Broncos.... AGAIN, the guy had Neil O'Donnell at QB! His teams were overacheivers, and I can't believe anyone would diminish Coach Cowher's accomplishments after we just watched a team that had a lot of phenomenal pieces underacheive.

 

Cowher NEVER had a QB like Eli in his prime, but his teams constantly just kicked their opponents ASS. Can't imagine why we would want that here.

 

We have what your talking about here though right now, if all your talking about is taken a team to the playoffs and failing miserably then you have that in both Cowher and Coughlin. It took Cowher 14 years to just win a SB in a some what over rated coaching career, the guy made it time after time to the playoffs yes but he could never make it to the big show and when he did he lost once to a very good team in Dallas and then when he won he beat a very shitty team in the Seahawks. The guy constantly folded in big games against big teams even when he had the home field advantage, like I said before Cowher and Norv Tuner have alot in common coaches who can get wins but can't do much with their team when it mattered.

 

Is Cowher a winning coach? Yes but so is Coughlin up to this point. Why trade Coughlin for Cowher when we would just get the same effect of losing in the playoffs?

[BadEgg]

hmmm...very nasty you are. the dog was simply calrifying the point nas was probably making. tom flores to the dog's knowledge never was a head coach anywhere but oakland. how does that work here? not sure if it isn't a legit argument, but since it has not often been done, the dog is just saying. coughlin has won consistently over a number of years as well. his record is not unlike cowhers, except that he has done it in two places rather than one...cowher may be a good coach, but everyone wants to ordain him, and one super bowl over 15 years and many disappointing playoff losses in that time doesn't speak to NFL coaching royalty in the dog's mind...especially since his replacement won it all two years later. the dog knew you might be all fired up today, but really, this attack was so unwarrented...deep breathing.

 

 

I do believe it is true that NO coach has won the Superbowl with 2 different teams.

 

Cowher may be the man to do it.

 

But the other side of the coin is that you may not get the same young hungry guy who put up all those numbers in Pitt. The Cowher who coaches again may be a different Cowher then the man who coached at Pitt.

 

As far as Coughn goes, he is not great but he is not bad either. In my opinion, it is much harder to make the playoffs and win then it was years many ago. The teams are too evenly matched. So I don't think Coughlin deserves all the blame, especially finishing 10-6.

 

But, by all means, lobby to have TC fired. Or, better yet, hire Cowher and Gruden and keep TC. Make a dream team coaching staff. Your overrated QB and load mouth running backs will still be giving games away...

[JMFP]

Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, but I think we're a couple linebackers and a special teams coach away from a superbowl. The amount of turnovers this year are just too large to think that it will happen again--this season was an outlier.

 

I agree with this.

 

The special teams really needs to be tightened up. And this defense desperately needs a fast, blue chip linebacker (not some project).

 

I also think the offense needs a makeover. I'm tied of their Redcoat attack.