You guys are not going to like this thread

[Allstarjim]

Did Gilbride throws those picks? Go back to the Tenessee game when Eli tried to lob one in from 5 yards out, rather than just eating it. He shouldn't be making these types of mistakes at this juncture of his career. But, oh shucks, what can you do?

 

 

I've already posted, in this very same thread, about Eli's inconsistency. He has regressed this season, and part of that is the pre-snap read offense that he and his receivers miscommunicate on about a half a dozen times per game. There are two points here, and one of them is that Gilbride's game planning in big games has blown chunks. Anybody who pays attention to Giants football as much as I do can see that. You are a Cowboys' fan, I don't expect you have watched as much Giants football as I and others have.

[Allstarjim]

here is the dog's issue with this. nobody here is in the giant's camp. these are professionals who spend 18 hours a day analyzing what they do. if putting beckum in the slot was such a potentially easy fix, it would have been done. the giants have o-line issues. maybe playaction and misdirection are too slow in developing. if the offense is so easy to figure out, then how do they roll up big numbers and points? the dog highly doubts the eagles have put the same scheme defensively every time. that is just not possible. but let's say it is. the giants put up 400 yards and 31 points against them last game. yet you want more imagination. gillbride wouldn't be the only one who "sucks" in big games. there is enough of that going around. everyone is a coach while sitting at the computer and watching games on tv. nobody knows the ins and outs of a team as much as they want to think they do.

 

Football is a results-oriented business. The Giants offense has relied too much on the big play, they have lacked consistency, they have failed in big moments as well as big games. Fair point about Beckum... but you can sit there and individually cherry pick my argument when the main theme is that Gilbride has not made in-game adjustments, and has not game-planned well in big games. Play-action and misdirection has worked in the past and works very well when our opponents employ it. Sit there and be obtuse about it, I really don't care. I have defended Gilbride in the past but there is no defense for him anymore. It is not good enough to roll up points and yardage on the Seahawks and fail time and time again against the Eagles. This team has the best offensive line depth that they've had in decades. By your measure we should just accept everything the coaches do despite the shit storm we saw on TV this past Sunday. Gilbride deserves this criticism, and now it is more than clear that he has been a liability in big games. He's been out coached too many times in these games and that is the issue that I have with him.

[Allstarjim]

I remember two critical drives during the 2007 playoffs.....the biggest one, of course was The Catch drive.

 

But the other one was during the Dallas game, when Eli drove the team down the field and scored right at the half.

 

Both of those drives were no huddles.....it was all on Eli.

 

I've calmed down enough to admit that Killdrive has had some very good games. But as Allstar and Storm said, in the big games, I just don't see it.

 

Granted, up 31-10 against the Eagles, 99% of the blame is on D/Special Teams for those 28 points.

But against the Packers, the lack of no huddle was very disappointing.

 

Let me just say that while this statement is mostly true, the offense had opportunities to answer and not only did they not chew up clock, they were going three and out and giving it right back to Vick. The Giants scored ONCE in the second half of that game... that is not good any week. And on that lone score, they were given a short field (the PHI 47) after an Eagle's turnover. Eli was 6-13 for 93 yards in the second half of that game. They did not have the killer instinct, they just didn't get it done. It wasn't just the last 7 minutes of that game (well, it was for the defense), but the entire second half the offense didn't show up.

[Storm]

Football is a results-oriented business. The Giants offense has relied too much on the big play, they have lacked consistency, they have failed in big moments as well as big games. Fair point about Beckum... but you can sit there and individually cherry pick my argument when the main theme is that Gilbride has not made in-game adjustments, and has not game-planned well in big games. Play-action and misdirection has worked in the past and works very well when our opponents employ it. Sit there and be obtuse about it, I really don't care. I have defended Gilbride in the past but there is no defense for him anymore. It is not good enough to roll up points and yardage on the Seahawks and fail time and time again against the Eagles. This team has the best offensive line depth that they've had in decades. By your measure we should just accept everything the coaches do despite the shit storm we saw on TV this past Sunday. Gilbride deserves this criticism, and now it is more than clear that he has been a liability in big games. He's been out coached too many times in these games and that is the issue that I have with him.

 

 

Perfectly said. And the Dog just reads what he wants to read.

[Storm]

14 points against the Colts

10 points against the LOSING RECORD Titans, who do (or at least did when we played them) have a pretty good defense

17 points against the Eagles the first time

17 points against the Bears, and thankfully our defense played that weak because that could have been an ugly loss, too...

17 points against the Packers

 

This is my biggest gripe. You'd have a hard time beating any team averaging 15 points a game. These happen to be GOOD teams. You can't put up those kind of numbers on offense and expect to win. Gilbride just hasn't figured out how to beat a good defense and I don't understand why......and something DOES need to be done about it.

[Bigblue25]

How much we miss Chris Palmer

[K3VIN]

How much we miss Chris Palmer

i wouldnt say that. we need to find a offence version of spags

[Tempest]

I think we're beyond the point of picking our starting QB. I realize however that if you play a lot of video games you have the belief you can still draft Johnny Unitas or Joe Montana to QB your team. So being that this isn't a video game and we can't go back and pass on a Eli Manning in 2004 and pick up Aaron Rodgers in 2005 or anyone else for that matter lets stick with some fucking reality for a change.

 

I'd rather have my QB throwing more touchdowns than interceptions. Its a very small thing but it is a possibility.

 

But..........FUCK ELI TOO!!!!!!!! I think it's time to come to the realization that he's just not that good......or at the very least, highly overrated. Spare me the "but he has a Super Bowl ring" excuse. You know who else has a Super Bowl ring? Let's see.........Jim Plunkett, Joe Namath, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. I think when it's all said and done, Eli will be listed amongst those one hit wonders. I'm sick of his "Awww shucks" expressions on and off the field. Sorry guys, I just don't like him.

 

PS: Aaron Rodgers: 6 years, $66 million

Eli Manning: 6 years, $103 million

 

Who would YOU rather have?

[ksm7]

Football is a results-oriented business. The Giants offense has relied too much on the big play, they have lacked consistency, they have failed in big moments as well as big games. Fair point about Beckum... but you can sit there and individually cherry pick my argument when the main theme is that Gilbride has not made in-game adjustments, and has not game-planned well in big games. Play-action and misdirection has worked in the past and works very well when our opponents employ it. Sit there and be obtuse about it, I really don't care. I have defended Gilbride in the past but there is no defense for him anymore. It is not good enough to roll up points and yardage on the Seahawks and fail time and time again against the Eagles. This team has the best offensive line depth that they've had in decades. By your measure we should just accept everything the coaches do despite the shit storm we saw on TV this past Sunday. Gilbride deserves this criticism, and now it is more than clear that he has been a liability in big games. He's been out coached too many times in these games and that is the issue that I have with him.

 

why is it that gillbride is failing? the dog made the point in a similar thread that perhaps it is the coaches who have gotten more mileage from an overall average team with less talent than most of you think...do you have to accept what the coaches do? no. but let's give the professionals more credit. how do we know he is not making in game adjustments that are not being executed by the players? when manning throws picks the way he did the other day, literally lofting the ball gingerly into double and in the first case, quadruple coverage, how does that fall on coaching? when bradshaw and manningham put the ball on the ground inexplicably, how is that poor adjustments? when jacobs tip toes to the line of scrimmage because there is no gaping hole blocked only by a 125 pound dback, why crucify the staff? and when the defense collapses and gets expolited by more talented teams, then what gives the fans sitting at home in there family rooms watching there flat screens with a can of beer and pretzels the right to analyze the OC and determine he is to blame? a coaching change across the board may not hurt this team, but there is a talent discrepancy between what you all think is there and what actually is...

[ksm7]

14 points against the Colts

10 points against the LOSING RECORD Titans, who do (or at least did when we played them) have a pretty good defense

17 points against the Eagles the first time

17 points against the Bears, and thankfully our defense played that weak because that could have been an ugly loss, too...

17 points against the Packers

 

This is my biggest gripe. You'd have a hard time beating any team averaging 15 points a game. These happen to be GOOD teams. You can't put up those kind of numbers on offense and expect to win. Gilbride just hasn't figured out how to beat a good defense and I don't understand why......and something DOES need to be done about it.

 

sure, and this is all on the offensive coordinator? the dog doesn't understand this mentality. let's look more closely. the colts were up 24-0 at half, and exploded from the opening snap all over the vaunted defense. that will take any team out of a game plan and force you to play catch up. how do you blame the oc here?

 

the titans - they outgained the titans 471-271 in yardage. gillbride did not have the huckleberry qb toss those ill advised picks in the redzone. nor did he commit the ignorant penalties.

 

the eagles game - two second quarter turnovers again effected the offense and what was being done. in spite of that, on the road against a division rival, they rallied to a 17-16 lead in the 4th quarter. if the huckleberry qb (there's that name again) wasn't so goofy and force his own fumble, we may not be having this conversation.

 

against the bears, the second seed in the playoffs with a very strong defense, they struggled in the first half. they then made adjustments and rolled up nearly 400 yards (almost 200 on the ground) to win. by the way, they had three lost fumbles that game (2 by the huckleberry...umm, yet again that name) that cost them as well.

 

and the packers game, well, those 4 picks and 2 fumbles didn't help much there either.

 

none of this can be 100% pinned on the OC. in fact, not even 10% of it can.

[Allstarjim]

Dog, it's obvious to those watching the games that while the execution and turnovers have not been good, the play calling and the obvious game plan has been severely lacking. Again, no play action, no misdirection, no "no huddle". No imagination, no deception. It is the COACHES that apparently believe that we have vastly superior talent, because they think that on 2nd and 10 a run up the middle against a stingyy Philly run defense is going to net 6 or 7 yards.

 

You can't cherry pick plays now... too large of a sample size, too much evidence. It is glaring. Have you watched all these Giants games with a critical eye? I watch every Giants game with a critical eye, especially the big ones. When I see what I saw against Philly and Green Bay, then it is quite apparent that it is the situational play calling that is part of the problem.

 

Keep it up, Dog, you are not going to change anyone's opinion that Gilbride needs to go.

[ksm7]

Dog, it's obvious to those watching the games that while the execution and turnovers have not been good, the play calling and the obvious game plan has been severely lacking. Again, no play action, no misdirection, no "no huddle". No imagination, no deception. It is the COACHES that apparently believe that we have vastly superior talent, because they think that on 2nd and 10 a run up the middle against a stingyy Philly run defense is going to net 6 or 7 yards.

 

You can't cherry pick plays now... too large of a sample size, too much evidence. It is glaring. Have you watched all these Giants games with a critical eye? I watch every Giants game with a critical eye, especially the big ones. When I see what I saw against Philly and Green Bay, then it is quite apparent that it is the situational play calling that is part of the problem.

 

Keep it up, Dog, you are not going to change anyone's opinion that Gilbride needs to go.

 

the dog always struggles with the no huddle idea. not sure what the success rate is for it, particularly in the middle of a game. quite honestly, the dog is going to guess that if the giants go no huddle teams will welcome the odds that a giant's team that is so mistake prone is going to cough it up in that scenario or go 3 and out...there is more to game planning than what you watch on tv. if you can't grasp that, then you can simply look at a run up the middle on 2nd and 10 and take it a face value. because of course, you know more than professional coaches who have been doing this at this level for more years than you have been "watching" on tv...

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

How much we miss Chris Palmer

 

 

He definitely was Eli's security blanket.

[Storm]

Dog, it's obvious to those watching the games that while the execution and turnovers have not been good, the play calling and the obvious game plan has been severely lacking. Again, no play action, no misdirection, no "no huddle". No imagination, no deception. It is the COACHES that apparently believe that we have vastly superior talent, because they think that on 2nd and 10 a run up the middle against a stingyy Philly run defense is going to net 6 or 7 yards.

 

You can't cherry pick plays now... too large of a sample size, too much evidence. It is glaring. Have you watched all these Giants games with a critical eye? I watch every Giants game with a critical eye, especially the big ones. When I see what I saw against Philly and Green Bay, then it is quite apparent that it is the situational play calling that is part of the problem.

 

Keep it up, Dog, you are not going to change anyone's opinion that Gilbride needs to go.

 

Exactly.

[Guest StrahansGap]

I think we're beyond the point of picking our starting QB. I realize however that if you play a lot of video games you have the belief you can still draft Johnny Unitas or Joe Montana to QB your team. So being that this isn't a video game and we can't go back and pass on a Eli Manning in 2004 and pick up Aaron Rodgers in 2005 or anyone else for that matter lets stick with some fucking reality for a change.

 

I'd rather have my QB throwing more touchdowns than interceptions. Its a very small thing but it is a possibility.

 

 

Fair enough. But you have to admit, the Mara's blew their load on Eli after the Super Bowl win. They made him the highest paid QB in the league because of that win. I think they dropped the ball. I mean, I understand it in the marketing sense. Eli is a well rounded, likeable guy. They found the face of their franchise. Eli is the guy that will bring the Giants some respect and monetary stability. I just think it was a knee-jerk reaction to an unbelieveable super bowl run. If you don't think the Mara's are regretting giving him all that money today........think again. Blame the coaches and the system all you want but they won a Super Bowl with those coaches AND that system. What's the excuse now? If you ask me, the players lied down like dead dogs....and Eli "the leader" should shoulder most of the blame.

[NightFire]

Well I may as well chime in because I have defended Gilbride many times before and agree with the dog. How is Gilbride supposed to win with 41 turnovers (the worst in the NFL)? It's a miracle that the Giants are actually in the playoff hunt considering how many turnovers they have. If your Gilbride how do you trust your offense to do anything when they are averaging 2.5 turnovers a game? If I am the OC of the Giants I'd be worried to call any play what to speak of one that needs exact timing and deception.

 

The real Killdrive is Eli and Bradshaw.

[ksm7]

Well I may as well chime in because I have defended Gilbride many times before and agree with the dog. How is Gilbride supposed to win with 41 turnovers (the worst in the NFL)? It's a miracle that the Giants are actually in the playoff hunt considering how many turnovers they have. If your Gilbride how do you trust your offense to do anything when they are averaging 2.5 turnovers a game? If I am the OC of the Giants I'd be worried to call any play what to speak of one that needs exact timing and deception.

 

The real Killdrive is Eli and Bradshaw.

 

the dog thinks this is another excellent point. for all the critics, try and call an offensive game when you don't know from play to play if your QB is going to throw a strike down the field of loft a cotton ball into triple coverage? will your 260 pound back run hard into the line or tip toe through the tulips because the o-line didn't blow open a 20 yard wide hole? does your young recieving corp beat the d-back one on one or miss read the coverage? does your best running threat make a move and run 60 yards or does a defensive player tap his arm and cause a fumble? yeah, this is easy to call plays...

[Nas]

Well I may as well chime in because I have defended Gilbride many times before and agree with the dog. How is Gilbride supposed to win with 41 turnovers (the worst in the NFL)? It's a miracle that the Giants are actually in the playoff hunt considering how many turnovers they have. If your Gilbride how do you trust your offense to do anything when they are averaging 2.5 turnovers a game? If I am the OC of the Giants I'd be worried to call any play what to speak of one that needs exact timing and deception.

 

The real Killdrive is Eli and Bradshaw.

 

I guess the fucks of this season are too vast to pin them on one person. Eli takes some of the blame.. Bradshaw does.. many other players do... and coaches do as well.

[NightFire]

the dog thinks this is another excellent point. for all the critics, try and call an offensive game when you don't know from play to play if your QB is going to throw a strike down the field of loft a cotton ball into triple coverage? will your 260 pound back run hard into the line or tip toe through the tulips because the o-line didn't blow open a 20 yard wide hole? does your young recieving corp beat the d-back one on one or miss read the coverage? does your best running threat make a move and run 60 yards or does a defensive player tap his arm and cause a fumble? yeah, this is easy to call plays...

 

The breakdown is:

 

24 INT

17 FUM

 

So yeah basically there is nobody to trust. The closest playoff team is the Bears with 29 turnovers and the best team, that are SB favourites for a reason, are the Patriots with 9. The Giants would be vying for #2 in the NFC if they only had 9 turnovers because the D has had 35 takeaways. If the D hadn't had so many takeaways this season would have been very ugly. As a matter of fact the bottom 5 teams are:

 

28 Bills 33

29 Cardinals 33

30 Panthers 35

31 Vikings 36

32 Giants 41

 

Hardly good company and all getting top picks in next years draft because of it. The fact of the matter is you cannot over come 41 turnovers, and counting, in a season no matter who your OC is. I would say that Gilbride has done a good job trying to over come mistakes considering the Giants are #3 in total offense.

[Nas]

I'm no expert.. I do see Gilbride as being a scapegoat here.. has he been perfect.. no one is. At the end of the day it's players who turn the ball over not coaches. This team needs a few minor changes.. hardly anything major. Jsut think.. with 8 minutes left in the Eagles game we were easily the cream of the crop in the NFC.

[Storm]

I'm no expert.. I do see Gilbride as being a scapegoat here.. has he been perfect.. no one is. At the end of the day it's players who turn the ball over not coaches. This team needs a few minor changes.. hardly anything major. Jsut think.. with 8 minutes left in the Eagles game we were easily the cream of the crop in the NFC.

 

Dude, this is exactly what we said last year when the team collapsed and gave up for Coughlin. I think major changes ARE in order. Especially if we don't make the playoffs. If you can't win throughout the ENTIRE season with the talent this team has, you shouldn't be coach. None of this bullshit loyalty to Coughlin and Co. because he won a SB nearly 4 years ago.

[Nas]

Dude, this is exactly what we said last year when the team collapsed and gave up for Coughlin. I think major changes ARE in order. Especially if we don't make the playoffs. If you can't win throughout the ENTIRE season with the talent this team has, you shouldn't be coach. None of this bullshit loyalty to Coughlin and Co. because he won a SB nearly 4 years ago.

 

We need a home run hitter on defense.. We just don't have that game breaker we used to have in Strahan.. n dare I say LT.. I mean god.. our LBers are awful.

[Storm]

We need a home run hitter on defense.. We just don't have that game breaker we used to have in Strahan.. n dare I saw LT.. I mean god.. our LBers are awful.

 

The defense has 35 takeaways and again, the linebackers are definitely not what's killing this team. That would be the non-existent pass rush and buttery soft secondary coverages/defensive gameplan.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Dude, this is exactly what we said last year when the team collapsed and gave up for Coughlin. I think major changes ARE in order. Especially if we don't make the playoffs. If you can't win throughout the ENTIRE season with the talent this team has, you shouldn't be coach. None of this bullshit loyalty to Coughlin and Co. because he won a SB nearly 4 years ago.

 

 

I agree...its a what have you done lately kind of deal. And lets face it...all of us who are directors, administrators or supervisors...if we use that excuse ....oh well its my employees fault; I have had such turnover; or I don't have enough staff. etc. Well pretty soon we are ex directors, administrators and supervisors. There comes a time when the leadership takes the shot plain and simple.

 

Coughlin will not be the last Giants coach to win us a Superbowl much less Mr. Run and Shoot Gilbride. Whom I might add...just about every other front office and coaching staff across the league reacted with amusement when the Giants announced they were making him the OC. Okay he caught lightning in a bottle once; but consistently his offense has difficulty scoring touchdowns in the Red Zone and scoring at all against good defenses.

 

Are the players at fault...you betcha....is the coaching staff at fault...you betcha...is the front office at fault yes sirree. So everyone needs to take a bite of the shit sandwich and move on. Time for Gilbride to get a college team. Time for Coughlin to get kicked upstairs. Give Fewell another year and if he turns into Tim Lewis out the fucking door he goes. ST coach needs to be lined up and shot....or a foot up the ass out the door. Players who can't hold onto the ball consistently need to be told they will be unemployed unless they fix the problem period.

 

[Steitzenhaus]

Lots of good perspectives and thoughts from everybody. Ive thought about plenty of theories and it keeps coming back to the turnovers. Leading the league in turnovers is the biggest loser stat you can have. I posited that maybe as a fan Im overrating the talent on this team but then I see that theyre going for a 10th win on Sunday and that tells me otherwise. Its nothing short of miraculous that they are even in the playoff race while turning the ball over almost 3 times a game. Whos to blame? I dont think this is Coughlins fault but as head coach he has to answer for everything that happens on this team good or bad. Thats just the nature of the beast. I hope it doesnt cost him his job but if it does it wouldnt be the first time players caused a coach to be fired.