IF Coughlin is gone, who do you want?

[boohyah]

Pretty much. I like Coughlin, and don't want to see him canned. He's a great football guy, and you've got to think he'd contribute to the organization.

 

But get me a Fisher, or a Gruden....fuck, I'd love to see what Gruden and Manning could do together.

 

You've got to think that any coach would look at this team and think "I can win with these fucking morons".

 

 

Joe, I totally disagree about Gruden, I want him nowhere near this team. I think he's about as overated as anyone.

 

And Coughlin would be (has been) a good college coach, you couldn't move him upstairs to any position, he wants to be on the field.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

I don't want the Giants to commit the mistakes of the past...no one needs a Goodbye Allie Sherman redux regarding Coughlin.

[BigPete]

Coughlin is a good coach, but I think this team needs a change to take it to the next level.

 

I think we need an experienced Coach

 

Cowher or Fisher would be very good, Gruden would be a close third.

Fox and Kubiak could all be good options.

 

I would add Charlie Weis in the mix, he has done well getting the KC offense on track despite limited talent. Russ Grim could also be decent.

 

I guess a key area is whether we consider our offense or defense to be the biggest problems.

 

 

 

 

I don't think Fewell is a good option, nor Gilbride this team needs a change of attitude (both could get head coaching gigs).

[ksm7]

Other than Bill Billichek whose the best head coach of the last 10 to 15 years? Cpwher has the title plus another super bowl appearence. Is Dungy better?

 

 

Nobody is saying Coughlin is a bad coach, just that his message or his delivery is not reaching the players on this team anymore.

 

possibly true, and a change could be in order. but the dog thinks there is something that may be true that nobody wants to look at, and that is, what if coughlin has been getting more out of a team that is not as talented as everyone wants to believe? When this team was 9-4 and in position to win the division, nobody was talking about things being stale or lost messages. Then came the eagles collpase. What can coughlin be blamed for in that...certainly the decision to not have the hands team on the field was a poor one. but aside from that, his defensive coordinator made no adjustments on the field. his players stopped tackling. what else?

 

people have said he hasn't solved bradshaw's fumbling. really? aside from film work and extended drills, at some point it becomes the players responibility to do what he has to. Barber did it. coughlin can't run on the field and make bradshaw do it. he even demoted him, but you know what - bradshaw has to be on the field b/c this just in, jacobs is not as talented as everyone thought.

 

this team has holes on defense that get exploited by better teams. this has been true for years. when the giants won the super bowl, the dog has contended for years that spagnolo was masterful at scheming to hide the weaknesses. they lost that with his departure. now teams have adjusted to the giant's strengths, and the dc's have not evolved what they do. \

 

let's kill gillbride. his system is too hard. funny that nobody believes that when they are rolling up wins and points against lesser talent as they have for two years. play better teams, and they struggle or lose. the young receivers aren't able to make the same level of plays consistently. and let's not forget that the receivers are young, and need time in any system to develop. better teams are going to be able to exploit that.

 

now for manning. he is a solid QB, but he is not the superior talent that people want so much to believe in. when burress got himself thrown in jail, manning struggled. he lost his security blanket that he could toss the ball to and have a veteran receiver go and make a play for. manning can get the job done, but not without better help. against better teams, his weaknesses get exploited. a complicated system doesn't account for at least two of the interceptions he threw last weekend (the first interception where he threw to a guy surrounded by 4 packers, and the interception where he threw into double coverage where the receiver wasn't close to being open). there is a basic rule: man in your passing vision, don't throw the ball there. he does that regularly. not coughlin. not gillbride. manning.

 

the bottom line is, this team is solid, but they are not the talent that everyone wants to believe. maybe coughlin has done more with a little less. who knows. we'll find out soon enough.

 

as for cowher, well, in pittsburgh, they could have said the same thing. after 10, 11, 12 years of doing enough to get in the playoffs and then losing, maybe things could have been defined as stale or that he lost the ear of the team. then he finally wins a super bowl, and everyone says he is the coach of the millenium. have to have him. funny, his predecessor comes in and wins a super bowl in two years. maybe cowher just had the talent to work with that finally put him over the top. the dog is just saying, bronco fans argued that shannahan had gone stale. probably had. but that team would be in a better position now if they had kept him rather than make the move they did. the cowboys have had a coaching carousel that they can't straighten out. the 49ers. the dolphins...all teams that jumped to a change and have not evolved. not to say others haven't succeeded. the ravens. the saints. the falcons. but when you have a coach that wins and is competetive on a yearly basis, sometimes making that change can set you back.

[Nas]

possibly true, and a change could be in order. but the dog thinks there is something that may be true that nobody wants to look at, and that is, what if coughlin has been getting more out of a team that is not as talented as everyone wants to believe? When this team was 9-4 and in position to win the division, nobody was talking about things being stale or lost messages. Then came the eagles collpase. What can coughlin be blamed for in that...certainly the decision to not have the hands team on the field was a poor one. but aside from that, his defensive coordinator made no adjustments on the field. his players stopped tackling. what else?

 

people have said he hasn't solved bradshaw's fumbling. really? aside from film work and extended drills, at some point it becomes the players responibility to do what he has to. Barber did it. coughlin can't run on the field and make bradshaw do it. he even demoted him, but you know what - bradshaw has to be on the field b/c this just in, jacobs is not as talented as everyone thought.

 

this team has holes on defense that get exploited by better teams. this has been true for years. when the giants won the super bowl, the dog has contended for years that spagnolo was masterful at scheming to hide the weaknesses. they lost that with his departure. now teams have adjusted to the giant's strengths, and the dc's have not evolved what they do. \

 

let's kill gillbride. his system is too hard. funny that nobody believes that when they are rolling up wins and points against lesser talent as they have for two years. play better teams, and they struggle or lose. the young receivers aren't able to make the same level of plays consistently. and let's not forget that the receivers are young, and need time in any system to develop. better teams are going to be able to exploit that.

 

now for manning. he is a solid QB, but he is not the superior talent that people want so much to believe in. when burress got himself thrown in jail, manning struggled. he lost his security blanket that he could toss the ball to and have a veteran receiver go and make a play for. manning can get the job done, but not without better help. against better teams, his weaknesses get exploited. a complicated system doesn't account for at least two of the interceptions he threw last weekend (the first interception where he threw to a guy surrounded by 4 packers, and the interception where he threw into double coverage where the receiver wasn't close to being open). there is a basic rule: man in your passing vision, don't throw the ball there. he does that regularly. not coughlin. not gillbride. manning.

 

the bottom line is, this team is solid, but they are not the talent that everyone wants to believe. maybe coughlin has done more with a little less. who knows. we'll find out soon enough.

 

as for cowher, well, in pittsburgh, they could have said the same thing. after 10, 11, 12 years of doing enough to get in the playoffs and then losing, maybe things could have been defined as stale or that he lost the ear of the team. then he finally wins a super bowl, and everyone says he is the coach of the millenium. have to have him. funny, his predecessor comes in and wins a super bowl in two years. maybe cowher just had the talent to work with that finally put him over the top. the dog is just saying, bronco fans argued that shannahan had gone stale. probably had. but that team would be in a better position now if they had kept him rather than make the move they did. the cowboys have had a coaching carousel that they can't straighten out. the 49ers. the dolphins...all teams that jumped to a change and have not evolved. not to say others haven't succeeded. the ravens. the saints. the falcons. but when you have a coach that wins and is competetive on a yearly basis, sometimes making that change can set you back.

 

I may not be in 100% agreement with you Dog but you bring solid and valid points. It's good to have a point of view that's not from a fan-base.

[JackStroud]

I may not be in 100% agreement with you Dog but you bring solid and valid points. It's good to have a point of view that's not from a fan-base.

 

Every story has a beginning, and middle and an end.........every coach is hired to be fired (except Red Auerbach and John Wooten)

 

It time Nas.........its over, lets not drag this out.......the team will be trounced by the Skins on Sunday and the Bears will win.......making this the longest of winters. Coughlin went out with a wimmper on sunday........he should have pulled some starters, threatened jobs like they were threatening his...........instead he went down like an Italian army.....he showed the fighting spirit of the French in WW2..........time to collect the mementos and head for the Exit Tom.

[mastershake]

Not a fan of Cowher to be honest.

 

If Ken Whisenhunt is fired from the Cardinals, he's not out of the question. Whisenhunt can really open up this offense, which is already loaded with talent, and finally get the TE's involved as well. Wouldn't mind bringing back John Fox as a DC is he's available, but not sure if the players will respond to him as a head coach.

[JMFP]

Joe, I totally disagree about Gruden, I want him nowhere near this team. I think he's about as overated as anyone.

 

And Coughlin would be (has been) a good college coach, you couldn't move him upstairs to any position, he wants to be on the field.

 

I like Gruden alot....I think he relates well to today's players. And offensively, I think he'd do a great job. He did well in Oakland, and took Tampa Bay to the Super Bowl. One could say it was Dungy's players, but it doesn't really matter to me.....he got them all the way.

 

I like Coughlin alot....I think he's a good coach. I don't want him fired, but I think a change is in order. I'd prefer a promotion, not a firing. I think Coughlin loves to coach, but at his age, maybe a 9-5 gig within the Giants organization would be something he might actually enjoy......a Parcells-type of deal.

[JackStroud]

I have no problem with Coughlin taking a desk at Meadowlands as long as he just takes a Gene Michaels type advisory role and has no say in day to day operations

 

He could also sit in the draft room

 

Beyond that the guy is air to me...........we need a younger spunkier more motivational coach who can relate on the players level, and fire them up for war

 

One thing we could do to insire the troops is give their Stadium a better name, and offer to buy out the Jets or vice Versa so both could have their own Stadium with the new one located in NY

[Mr. P]

I think everyone by now understands jack's view on coughlin.

 

 

 

 

i also think jack will tell us his view on coughlin another 3,000 times.

[UK-Giantsfan]

it wont happen .now........but id love to see Spags back as HC of the G men ( maybe someday )

 

personally i would like TC to stay for another 2 -3 years ........but if not .....Fisher or Fox

[mastershake]

We're really not that far away from being a 3-4 defense. I think we do need an overhaul of our current defense.

 

Osi and JPP can play OLB, possibly Tuck as well. Who knows with Kiwi coming back from injury. Boley and Goff can play in the middle.

 

Defensive Line Wise, Canty played DE in a 3-4 alignment in Dallas. Cofield can move to DE in a 3-4. Linval Joseph can play NT, or rotate in Cofield and move Bernard or Tuck to a down lineman. We'd probably need to add a NT and 3-4 DE in the off season. I definitely think we have some versatility for the 3-4. We already use some 3-3 alignments, with Deon Grant in as a rover safety, and some 5-2 looks with Tuck playing on the inside as well.

[Nas]

We're really not that far away from being a 3-4 defense. I think we do need an overhaul of our current defense.

 

Osi and JPP can play OLB, possibly Tuck as well. Who knows with Kiwi coming back from injury. Boley and Goff can play in the middle.

 

Defensive Line Wise, Canty played DE in a 3-4 alignment in Dallas. Cofield can move to DE in a 3-4. Linval Joseph can play NT, or rotate in Cofield and move Bernard or Tuck to a down lineman. We'd probably need to add a NT and 3-4 DE in the off season. I definitely think we have some versatility for the 3-4. We already use some 3-3 alignments, with Deon Grant in as a rover safety, and some 5-2 looks with Tuck playing on the inside as well.

 

Speaking of Osi.. where the hell is he? Is it me or the guy is vanishing again?

[fishgutmartyr]

Other than he was our DC 8 YEARS AGO, what in world do you people see in John Fox that I can't? He's had great running tandems, defense, and receiving; and he still couldn't win with any sort of consistency. You want to fire a guy with a record of 68-50 for someone that's 78-75?

 

It's one thing to call for a new coach, but can we at least upgrade?

[JackStroud]

Other than he was our DC 8 YEARS AGO, what in world do you people see in John Fox that I can't? He's had great running tandems, defense, and receiving; and he still couldn't win with any sort of consistency. You want to fire a guy with a record of 68-50 for someone that's 78-75?

 

It's one thing to call for a new coach, but can we at least upgrade?

 

Carolina has given us some of the worst beatings we have ever endured

 

they do not posses our talent level at the skill positions, and o-line but Fox is a master at building a game plan......working with our personnel he would be a sure hit, IMHO

 

He can fire up a team, as we saw in the year 2000 as our DC............He would be a huge game day upgrade over Fassell/Coughlin

 

you all said the same thing about Sean Peyton............ran the poor guy out of town........what is your opinion of Peyton now??

[BigPete]

We're really not that far away from being a 3-4 defense. I think we do need an overhaul of our current defense.

 

Osi and JPP can play OLB, possibly Tuck as well. Who knows with Kiwi coming back from injury. Boley and Goff can play in the middle.

 

Defensive Line Wise, Canty played DE in a 3-4 alignment in Dallas. Cofield can move to DE in a 3-4. Linval Joseph can play NT, or rotate in Cofield and move Bernard or Tuck to a down lineman. We'd probably need to add a NT and 3-4 DE in the off season. I definitely think we have some versatility for the 3-4. We already use some 3-3 alignments, with Deon Grant in as a rover safety, and some 5-2 looks with Tuck playing on the inside as well.

 

We could move to a 3-4 if we chose.

 

Tuck can play DE similar to Darnell Dockett or Justin Smith.

 

DE - Justin Tuck, Chris Canty, Barry Cofield, Rocky Bernard

NT - Linval Joseph, ?

OLB - Osi Umenyiora, Justin Tuck, Matthias Kiwanuka, Clint Sintim

ILB - Jon Goff, Michael Boley, Chase Blackburn, Phillip Dillard, Gerris Wilkinson

 

 

Looks to me like we have a very good core of players if we want to move to a 3-4, in fact the only position we really may need to upgrade is a backup NT (although Cofield and Canty can probably do ok).

[fishgutmartyr]

Carolina has given us some of the worst beatings we have ever endured

 

they do not posses our talent level at the skill positions, and o-line but Fox is a master at building a game plan......working with our personnel he would be a sure hit, IMHO

 

He can fire up a team, as we saw in the year 2000 as our DC............He would be a huge game day upgrade over Fassell/Coughlin

 

you all said the same thing about Sean Peyton............ran the poor guy out of town........what is your opinion of Peyton now??

Revisionism. The playoff beatdown came when we were starting linebackers that were collecting shopping carts two weeks earlier, remember? And we've won our share against them as well--remember 2006 and 2008? But I'll give his staff credit: they did a good job scheming against our glaring weakness in 2005.

 

He's had Peppers there for most of his tenure, and a dline that rivaled our own for years. His running game was rock solid, and there was a reason NY's WR was known as "the other Steve Smith." That, and he had Muhsin Muhammad during his peak. He didn't exactly have to work with the talent level of the Detroit Lions.

 

In 2000, he was on a team that lost a SB. Just like 2004. His record season to season is as erratic as Fassel's was, with the same final tally: a couple games over .500.

 

I've never been a member of the GMB, so I never trashed Peyton. But I'll tell you this: Peyton really stepped it up when he became head coach, and is actually more successful there than as an OC: I don't see that with Fox.

[Virginia Giant]

possibly true, and a change could be in order. but the dog thinks there is something that may be true that nobody wants to look at, and that is, what if coughlin has been getting more out of a team that is not as talented as everyone wants to believe? When this team was 9-4 and in position to win the division, nobody was talking about things being stale or lost messages. Then came the eagles collpase. What can coughlin be blamed for in that...certainly the decision to not have the hands team on the field was a poor one. but aside from that, his defensive coordinator made no adjustments on the field. his players stopped tackling. what else?

 

people have said he hasn't solved bradshaw's fumbling. really? aside from film work and extended drills, at some point it becomes the players responibility to do what he has to. Barber did it. coughlin can't run on the field and make bradshaw do it. he even demoted him, but you know what - bradshaw has to be on the field b/c this just in, jacobs is not as talented as everyone thought.

 

this team has holes on defense that get exploited by better teams. this has been true for years. when the giants won the super bowl, the dog has contended for years that spagnolo was masterful at scheming to hide the weaknesses. they lost that with his departure. now teams have adjusted to the giant's strengths, and the dc's have not evolved what they do. \

 

let's kill gillbride. his system is too hard. funny that nobody believes that when they are rolling up wins and points against lesser talent as they have for two years. play better teams, and they struggle or lose. the young receivers aren't able to make the same level of plays consistently. and let's not forget that the receivers are young, and need time in any system to develop. better teams are going to be able to exploit that.

 

now for manning. he is a solid QB, but he is not the superior talent that people want so much to believe in. when burress got himself thrown in jail, manning struggled. he lost his security blanket that he could toss the ball to and have a veteran receiver go and make a play for. manning can get the job done, but not without better help. against better teams, his weaknesses get exploited. a complicated system doesn't account for at least two of the interceptions he threw last weekend (the first interception where he threw to a guy surrounded by 4 packers, and the interception where he threw into double coverage where the receiver wasn't close to being open). there is a basic rule: man in your passing vision, don't throw the ball there. he does that regularly. not coughlin. not gillbride. manning.

 

the bottom line is, this team is solid, but they are not the talent that everyone wants to believe. maybe coughlin has done more with a little less. who knows. we'll find out soon enough.

 

as for cowher, well, in pittsburgh, they could have said the same thing. after 10, 11, 12 years of doing enough to get in the playoffs and then losing, maybe things could have been defined as stale or that he lost the ear of the team. then he finally wins a super bowl, and everyone says he is the coach of the millenium. have to have him. funny, his predecessor comes in and wins a super bowl in two years. maybe cowher just had the talent to work with that finally put him over the top. the dog is just saying, bronco fans argued that shannahan had gone stale. probably had. but that team would be in a better position now if they had kept him rather than make the move they did. the cowboys have had a coaching carousel that they can't straighten out. the 49ers. the dolphins...all teams that jumped to a change and have not evolved. not to say others haven't succeeded. the ravens. the saints. the falcons. but when you have a coach that wins and is competetive on a yearly basis, sometimes making that change can set you back.

 

 

So it's either the Giants are not very talented and Coughlin is coach enough to make them somewhat respectable, or the Giants are talented and Coughlin isn't getting it done. Since, as you yourself pointed out, other than the super bowl year the Giants havn't won a playoff game, and seem to be regressing year after year, I'm comfortable making a change and taking our chances, because hot starts and shitty finishes aren't exactly what I call lifting a team to higher levels. It might not be so bad if this wasn't the one constant of Coughlins time in NY, hot out of the gate, failing miserably at the end, other than 1 year.

 

 

And I'm not sure if you intentionally forget the entire year or think I'm too dumb to remember, but Coughlin was on the hot seat after the first 2 weeks, and there was definately talk that he lost the team.

 

The Giants beat up on lesser teams and get beaten up by better teams, wether that is a lack of talent on the team or poor coaching doesn't make a difference, because other than 1 magical year the Giants have not been all that great, though i do think they were the best team in the nfl before Plax shot himself that year. You can't very well overhaul a team most view as a yearly competitor to win the division, you make a coaching change when the team continues to fall well short of it's goals. Thats true for any team.

 

 

The year plax shot himself, he wasn't putting up the great numbers, so he wasn't a true security blanket. He was a great receriver who teams focused on, he was the one member of the offense teams went out to stop, and for most of the season Eli and the offense rolled.

 

Gillbride, I have intentionally made an effort to not criticise him this year, I even complimented him a couple times. I bit my tongue at times and hoped I was wrong. I even think Gillbride is a good offensive mind, but you can't keep chucking the ball 40 times a game with a depleted receiving core, especially since you have one of the better running attacks in football at your disposal, with 2 fresh running backs. Wether they are getting 5 yards a carry or 2, you keep running because sooner or later it will break lose, time and again it has been proven in this league that if you stick to it the running game is the one thing that wins games for most teams. There will always be a Brady or Peyton or Brees in the league that does well against that trend, but more often than not running the ball wins games.

[NYG Hampton 27]

Coughlin is a good coach, but I think this team needs a change to take it to the next level.

 

I think we need an experienced Coach

 

Cowher or Fisher would be very good, Gruden would be a close third.

Fox and Kubiak could all be good options.

 

I would add Charlie Weis in the mix, he has done well getting the KC offense on track despite limited talent. Russ Grim could also be decent.

 

I guess a key area is whether we consider our offense or defense to be the biggest problems.

 

 

 

 

I don't think Fewell is a good option, nor Gilbride this team needs a change of attitude (both could get head coaching gigs).

Hey Pete, I agree with Cowher and Fisher. I think both of them would be fine coaches, that is if Coughlin is gone. But I like Coughlin too.

[Tempest]

Hmm Coughlin fired after this season, I want a break from football after they decide when they plan on playing football again. Replacing Tom Coughlin is just a bad idea. If your memory of NY Giants Football starts with the 2004 season, then firing the head coach is a reasonable solution. If you've been watching even longer and still think its a reasonable solution, you have already forgotten the thrill of a coach coming in and installing his system (not pretty).

 

Quite simply, there just isn't a better candidate on the market that can win with this team.

[boohyah]

Other than he was our DC 8 YEARS AGO, what in world do you people see in John Fox that I can't? He's had great running tandems, defense, and receiving; and he still couldn't win with any sort of consistency. You want to fire a guy with a record of 68-50 for someone that's 78-75?

 

It's one thing to call for a new coach, but can we at least upgrade?

 

 

Totally agree, let Fox end up somewhere else.

[boohyah]

Carolina has given us some of the worst beatings we have ever endured

 

they do not posses our talent level at the skill positions, and o-line but Fox is a master at building a game plan......working with our personnel he would be a sure hit, IMHO

 

He can fire up a team, as we saw in the year 2000 as our DC............He would be a huge game day upgrade over Fassell/Coughlin

 

you all said the same thing about Sean Peyton............ran the poor guy out of town........what is your opinion of Peyton now??

 

 

What the fuck did Sean Payton do in New York apart from one decent season?. Fine it worked out for him in New Orleans where he has some of the best talent around, but instead of your typical bullshit "look what they're doing now, and how wrong are we now", let's remember what happened back then, that fassel had to pull the plug on payton because his fucking offense had gotten so predictable, and fassel was right by the way. How many times can you have guys in motion on offense, just to go back to their original spot, before teams figure that out?.

[Tempest]

The problem Sean Payton had in NY was there were so many players especially on the offensive line that were barely average. Sean Payton would terrorize the league with the squad we have now and they're only getting better.

 

What the fuck did Sean Payton do in New York apart from one decent season?. Fine it worked out for him in New Orleans where he has some of the best talent around, but instead of your typical bullshit "look what they're doing now, and how wrong are we now", let's remember what happened back then, that fassel had to pull the plug on payton because his fucking offense had gotten so predictable, and fassel was right by the way. How many times can you have guys in motion on offense, just to go back to their original spot, before teams figure that out?.

[mastershake]

Speaking of Osi.. where the hell is he? Is it me or the guy is vanishing again?

 

He's still ten yards upfield, while the quarterback is stepping up in the pocket to make it a 15 yard difference between him and the ball.

[boohyah]

The problem Sean Payton had in NY was there were so many players especially on the offensive line that were barely average. Sean Payton would terrorize the league with the squad we have now and they're only getting better.

 

 

That's not the point. Jack is telling everyone how we ran Payton out of town. Not the case. He had the playcalling taken from him because he did not do a good job making adjustments. And no offense, but good offense or bad offense, he had success the first year and not the second, and that was pretty much the same offense. Payton showed very little to anyone to suggest that down the line he'd make a good head coach, and if since then he's become one, then so be it. If Jack wanted to make a point, then maybe going back as far as Bellicheck might have been a idea, a stronger idea!.