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the State of the NY Giants Defense


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What happens when the Giants face a good QB? Written by Peter S Furman Thursday, 09 December 2010 00:00 The most important thing is to look at the Giants objectively. When I do that, I make this observation: The Giants have not and cannot beat a team with a good QB and an OC who exploits their weaknesses.

 

What you saw this past weekend was a pathetic Redskin team with a QB who was done before he was traded. Andy documented that well yesterday.

 

A big part of Donovan McNabb’s game was his ability to scramble. He was never a prolific passer but he could beat you to death by rolling out and either throwing it or running with it. We thought he had lost a step last year and even the year before. Reid is a tier one coach and he lives like Belichick in so far as making moves that give him the best chance to win. All very good coaches do that as that is why the Patriots and the Eagles are always competitive. No one does it better than Belichick as we witnessed Monday night.

 

The Giants have NO linebacker who can even remotely cover a TE or anyone else in pass coverage. The best one would be Michael Boley. He has played well but he is a complimentary player . I think Goff could be better but he is nowhere near dominant. There really is no third backer, which is why Fewell cleverly uses Grant to bolster the others. Fewell is getting the most he can out of what he has but we have only faced two legitimate quarterbacks this year. We lost to both.

 

Fewell seems to have the need to go cover two even though it never works against the best. We have some very good d.b’s but they can not cover the 15-20 yard free zone the cover two creates. What you saw was a broken down qb, unable to take advantage of what the Giants gave up. He just doesn’t have the players around him to protect him or catch the rock. He threw so much for two reasons: the Skins have no running game and that is how you beat the Giants.

 

The NFL has devolved into a lot of very bad teams with only a few one could call good. The Giants, by the luck of the draw are in contention for the playoffs. I believe that Brady, Brees, Manning, Roethlisberger, a healthy Favre, Rivers and maybe Flacco on a very good day would dismember our guys.

 

The Giants have to play pressure defense to win and it has to be overwhelming. We have had success because of Osi, Tuck, Cofield and recently JPP are putting immense pressure on the opposing QB. We blitz every DB we have during the course of a game with different packages. We bring Grant and it has worked but if you look closely you will see that if the blitz doesn’t get there we are exploited.

 

The cover two never works when the DB's are actually forced to cover zone or man on man. The 15-20 yard pass over the middle, in the flat, to a running back, a TE and/or a wideout is “always “ open. That is what you see but few have been able to exploit it.

 

We have witnessed what happens when the opposing QB has time as did Kitna in game two. That is what few others have been able to do.

 

A lot of credit goes to Fewell. One cannot however, overlook who we have played and how incredibly weak our schedule has been thus far. No one would have imagined the Cowboys to collapse or that the Redskins would be this bad. No one knew what to expect of the Eagles or that Michael Vick would rise from the dead. The NFC East is comprised of two o.k. Teams and two surprisingly bad teams.

 

As you well know luck plays a big part of the ultimate outcome. The Giants have had a lot of it this year. How would they do if they played the Bears now? Cutler has adapted to Martz and the defense is still great. I would love to see a rematch.

 

We play Green Bay which will tell us a lot more. Rodgers is one of the ones who could embarrass us. The Vikings are playing better but without a healthy Favre it is not possible to know what they bring. They have a very good defense and Peterson was just great last week. Frazier wants the job and his players want it for him. They just don’t have a QB who can really challenge us.

 

I would do exactly what McNabb was unable to do. I would exploit the middle of the d with quick outs, over the middle, in the flat and only run to keep it honest. I think a team like the Steelers, the Ravens, the Patriots, likely Green Bay, possibly Phillip Rivers and yes, the St. Louis Cardinals under our boy “Spags” would all have the tools to beat us.

 

In the end,one cannot take lightly the improvement we have seen. I would say that although Fewell has this Tampa Two obsession he has done a good job and the intensity of the defense is huge. We have stayed relatively healthy on defense, which is also huge. The flaws we pointed out before the season began are still there. What we did not know- could not know- is how good Cofield would be, or how well Osi had healed in his head and his knee. We could not know how incredibly well Grant would play and the role he ultimately would fill. We knew we had a good defensive backfield but Rolle has made a big difference and Phillips has come back better than anyone might have hoped. Tuck has played well although he could be better and the recent emergence of JPP is a big plus.

 

Let’s not get too excited because we are winning despite a Beatty who s*cks and an o line that playing to it’s max. Will Snee, Seubert and McKenzie burn out? Snee has played all pro. Could we run at all against the Ravens or Steelers? Will Vick and/or Rodgers expose our weakness as a 38 year old Kitna and a mediocre (for him) Manning did? Have/will the Giants be able to beat a team they are not supposed to beat? They haven’t done it yet.

 

Anything is possible. The Giants won’t face the Pats, the Ravens or the Steelers unless they go super. The NFC is such a pile of do do that anything can happen. The Giants have a very good defensive line and a very good bunch of db’s and receivers when healthy.

 

There is still a quarter of a season to go.

 

 

 

 

 

St Louis Cardinals? It's been a long time since we faced Neil Lomax

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There is alot of truth here. I couldnt figure out for the life of me why we played phillys WRs 20 yards off the line. Our DC needs to stop wetting his pants when we play good QB's. Play to our strengths. Mix up the blitzes. And keep them coming.

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I would argue that in two of our losses, Dallas ands Tennessee we clearly beat ourselves.

 

I think you could make that case for our game against the Eagles as well.

 

As for Indy? Yep we got flat out smoked. Week 2 was a long time ago however.

 

 

That having been said, we do have some holes in our D. I thought last week we looked vulnerable to cut backs in the running game that could really hurt us against a "quality" RB and we can still be exposed in the screen game / flats.

 

Carl Banks was talking about this on the radio after Sunday's game. Banks attributed this more to mental break downs / blown assignments though. Apparently Banks feels you can win with out the top player in the league at every position as long as they stay focussed and cover their responsabilities.

 

It is still a work in progress so lets continue to improve. as Parcels used to say, once you make the playoffs anything can happen.

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Wow this guy's a frickin' genius.If there wasn't a risk to blitzing every team would blitz on every down.

 

 

exactly. The key is to disguise them and then get home. Fewel has shown a knack for this.

 

 

One of the things I love about football ( and hockey for that matter ) is that it is a consummate team sport. 10 guys do their job perfectly and 1 guy screws up? You can be looking at 6 in a flash.

 

 

We get the starters back on O, continue to improve on coverage teams, take better care of the ball and our D will be plenty good to take us where we want to go.

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I would argue that in two of our losses, Dallas ands Tennessee we clearly beat ourselves.

 

I think you could make that case for our game against the Eagles as well.

 

As for Indy? Yep we got flat out smoked. Week 2 was a long time ago however.

 

 

That having been said, we do have some holes in our D. I thought last week we looked vulnerable to cut backs in the running game that could really hurt us against a "quality" RB and we can still be exposed in the screen game / flats.

 

Carl Banks was talking about this on the radio after Sunday's game. Banks attributed this more to mental break downs / blown assignments though. Apparently Banks feels you can win with out the top player in the league at every position as long as they stay focussed and cover their responsabilities.

 

It is still a work in progress so lets continue to improve. as Parcels used to say, once you make the playoffs anything can happen.

 

Yeah, oddly enough the O has been more of a problem this year than the D. If the O continues to keep those mistakes down and the line becomes healthy this team could be a contender. Also the Giants were supposed to be smoked by a great Pats team at one time and look how that worked out. Acting like the AFC has a SB locked up is disingenuous.

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There is alot of truth here. I couldnt figure out for the life of me why we played phillys WRs 20 yards off the line. Our DC needs to stop wetting his pants when we play good QB's. Play to our strengths. Mix up the blitzes. And keep them coming.

 

So the DBs could look back at the QB, in case Vick turned runningback.

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This article is completely upside down.

 

Granted, a great QB is like a great pitcher, or a great goalie - they can dominate any opponent. Just look what Brady did against the Jets.

 

But we are much stronger against the pass than the run.

 

They did a great job against the Eagles....we would have won that game without the 5 turnovers. It was running plays, not passing plays, that the Eagles burned us the most on.

 

We have the best secondary in the NFL (that's my opinion....but check it out: Webster, Thomas, Ross, Rolle, Grant, Phillips????......that's just scary talent).

 

Our pass rush is among the best in the NFL....Tuck, JPP, Osi...? Again, sick stuff.

 

Our DT's are solid, but they aren't top-tier.....Cofield and Canty are doing a good job, though. And our linebacking is probably B-. Bulluck is okay, but he's not the beast he once was on the Titans....but that is to be expecting following a knee issue. Boley is fine, and he's capable of covering a TE. Goff has flashed on occasion....if he sucked, we'd know it. He reminds me of a Gary Reasons-type LB.

 

Our DT/LBs aren't bad....but they are not the strength of the defense, and that is why they are being keyed on.

 

Jacksonville should be a cautionary tale.....our Achilles Heel is against a power inside running team. But even then, we can bring a safety up to the line, which is how we eventually shut things down.

 

Fact is, the Giants have a fucking kick-ass defense....they can pressure the QB with a 4 man rush.....they can man cover 3 wideouts without any mismatches....they can drop the safeties back, or in the box, depending on the situation.

 

Really, it's an embarrassment of riches. The fact that our DT's and LB's aren't as strong as our DBs / DEs is nothing to be ashamed about - it just shows how good we are, rather than how vulnerable.

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You can see how well that worked out for us. We already planted a spy on most downs. You gotta let the CB's play to thier strengths.

 

It DID work pretty well, the following week the Bears basically copied the Giants defensive game plan. Giants might have won that game if they stuck with the pressure packages on defense... every time they sat back and rushed three or four Vick had his way with the defense (and where was the spy on those plays?). I get they have to mix it up, but Vick was exposed, we could see what was working, there was no reason to go away from the blitz until Vick proved he could beat it.

 

Get your DBs looking back at the QB, have dominant DEs that can keep Vick in the pocket, and then bring the zone-blitz, early and often. Its the Anti-Vick formula, been that way forever.

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It DID work pretty well, the following week the Bears basically copied the Giants defensive game plan. Giants might have won that game if they stuck with the pressure packages on defense... every time they sat back and rushed three or four Vick had his way with the defense (and where was the spy on those plays?). I get they have to mix it up, but Vick was exposed, we could see what was working, there was no reason to go away from the blitz until Vick proved he could beat it.

 

Get your DBs looking back at the QB, have dominant DEs that can keep Vick in the pocket, and then bring the zone-blitz, early and often. Its the Anti-Vick formula, been that way forever.

 

Well let's if the Giants can now copy the bears' game plan.. and apply it next week.

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It DID work pretty well, the following week the Bears basically copied the Giants defensive game plan. Giants might have won that game if they stuck with the pressure packages on defense... every time they sat back and rushed three or four Vick had his way with the defense (and where was the spy on those plays?). I get they have to mix it up, but Vick was exposed, we could see what was working, there was no reason to go away from the blitz until Vick proved he could beat it.

 

Get your DBs looking back at the QB, have dominant DEs that can keep Vick in the pocket, and then bring the zone-blitz, early and often. Its the Anti-Vick formula, been that way forever.

 

I agree 100%....we lost on turnovers, and 2 breakdowns on running plays. And like you said, when we pressured Vick, he was not effective.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing....when we sat back, that's when he did the most damage.

 

The Bears definitely were paying attention.

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It DID work pretty well, the following week the Bears basically copied the Giants defensive game plan. Giants might have won that game if they stuck with the pressure packages on defense... every time they sat back and rushed three or four Vick had his way with the defense (and where was the spy on those plays?). I get they have to mix it up, but Vick was exposed, we could see what was working, there was no reason to go away from the blitz until Vick proved he could beat it.

 

Get your DBs looking back at the QB, have dominant DEs that can keep Vick in the pocket, and then bring the zone-blitz, early and often. Its the Anti-Vick formula, been that way forever.

 

Yep, Fewell went with the Tampa 2 against them and got smoked by screen passes and pitches to McCoy that the Eagles run every fucking week. Do our LB's sniff them out, nope and do are LB's understand gap control, NOPE. That was the difference between us and the Bears, their LB's understood their assignments, ours bite on fakes Vick runs each week

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It DID work pretty well, the following week the Bears basically copied the Giants defensive game plan. Giants might have won that game if they stuck with the pressure packages on defense... every time they sat back and rushed three or four Vick had his way with the defense (and where was the spy on those plays?). I get they have to mix it up, but Vick was exposed, we could see what was working, there was no reason to go away from the blitz until Vick proved he could beat it.

 

Get your DBs looking back at the QB, have dominant DEs that can keep Vick in the pocket, and then bring the zone-blitz, early and often. Its the Anti-Vick formula, been that way forever.

 

 

Bro, you cant give thier wr's 20 yards, especialy when you are sending the blitz. They had the dump off all day. I agree we had to blitz, but we also had to man up on the wr's, and bump them off the line.

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Yep, Fewell went with the Tampa 2 against them and got smoked by screen passes and pitches to McCoy that the Eagles run every fucking week. Do our LB's sniff them out, nope and do are LB's understand gap control, NOPE. That was the difference between us and the Bears, their LB's understood their assignments, ours bite on fakes Vick runs each week

 

Goff and Boley flash every now and then, but I can't help but think how great Jesse Armstead would look in this defense. If the Giants had someone at his level that defense would be historically good. This crew...better than its been in a few years, but... still pretty damn average.

 

Way too much Tampa-2 style play against Philly last time around. They aren't your typical WCO when they've got a one-read QB like Vick running their offense. Chicago took what worked for the Giants and brought it time and time again, and honestly, I didn't think they were half as impressive as the Giants at it either, but they kept at it and they won the game.

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Bro, you cant give thier wr's 20 yards, especialy when you are sending the blitz. They had the dump off all day. I agree we had to blitz, but we also had to man up on the wr's, and bump them off the line.

 

Usually I'd agree, especially against DeSean Jackson, but its a pick your poison situation. You need your DBs looking into the backfield against Vick, that works way better than spying him with a single defender ever did. I would never play man-to-man against an offense with Vick at the helm. NEVER. You want to see what Vick does to man-to-man?...watch his highlight reel. It all starts with defenders with their back to the play.

 

And its not just the blitz thats important because there's a certain way to do it against Vick; its all about containment first, and then interrupting or complicating his decision-making process. I thought the Giants did a really nice job of this (on the too-few occasions they tried). They didn't really bring a lot of rushers, just five usually, but with zone-blitz concepts; corners and safeties off the edge or on delayed blitzes up the middle, combined with mush-rush techniques on the edge by the DEs or stunting DTs, and sometimes even somebody coming up from linebacker (often this was Tuck, though).

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Usually I'd agree, especially against DeSean Jackson, but its a pick your poison situation. You need your DBs looking into the backfield against Vick, that works way better than spying him with a single defender ever did. I would never play man-to-man against an offense with Vick at the helm. NEVER. You want to see what Vick does to man-to-man?...watch his highlight reel. It all starts with defenders with their back to the play.

 

And its not just the blitz thats important because there's a certain way to do it against Vick; its all about containment first, and then interrupting or complicating his decision-making process. I thought the Giants did a really nice job of this (on the too-few occasions they tried). They didn't really bring a lot of rushers, just five usually, but with zone-blitz concepts; corners and safeties off the edge or on delayed blitzes up the middle, combined with mush-rush techniques on the edge by the DEs or stunting DTs, and sometimes even somebody coming up from linebacker (often this was Tuck, though).

 

Good points.

 

On the NFC Playbook segment on Vick, they showed how he exploits even the most minor gaps.

 

The four man rush really needs to apply some inner push and edge contain to get him moving, but only in the direction that they want....for example, Fewell repeatedly had him moving to his right....as a lefty, that pretty much eliminated Vick's ability to pass on the run, and turned him into a running back.

 

In my opinion, with Vick, the "spy" needs to be blitzing full time....it's a waste of time having a guy "spy" him by just sitting back and waiting for him to make a move or pass the ball.

 

That's why, frankly, of all the teams in the league, the Giants really do have the best personnel to slow down the Eagles.....Webster and Thomas are excellent corners; yeah, Jackson and Maclin are very dangerous, and the big play is always there. But the Giants secondary is about as deep and talented as you can find.

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Why can't people simply give credit to the Giants for beating teams? It has to be some fluke that we won. I realize how absolutely easy it is to look at teams this far into the season and point out they weren't a good team this year.

We've beaten teams good teams and beaten teams few could predict would be at the bottom of their division.

 

State of the NY Giants Defense? They are hanging tough out there for a lot longer than they ever had to in the past few years because the offense can't hold on to the ball. There have definitely been a few games where it took some time for them to get on track if they got on track at all and you can say that about any team in the league.

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Why can't people simply give credit to the Giants for beating teams? It has to be some fluke that we won. I realize how absolutely easy it is to look at teams this far into the season and point out they weren't a good team this year.

We've beaten teams good teams and beaten teams few could predict would be at the bottom of their division.

 

State of the NY Giants Defense? They are hanging tough out there for a lot longer than they ever had to in the past few years because the offense can't hold on to the ball. There have definitely been a few games where it took some time for them to get on track if they got on track at all and you can say that about any team in the league.

 

Your right, the 2007 defense wasn't perfect either. They gave up 22 points a game and most said we had the worst secondary to ever make the playoffs,we did lead the NFL in sacks that year, then in the playoffs the secondary stepped up. So far though, this D is better then that 2007 D statistically.

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Your right, the 2007 defense wasn't perfect either. They gave up 22 points a game and most said we had the worst secondary to ever make the playoffs,we did lead the NFL in sacks that year, then in the playoffs the secondary stepped up. So far though, this D is better then that 2007 D statistically.

 

Back in 2007, we had RW McQuarters.....Ross was our top guy, but his hammy was always an issue.....there was alot of talk that Corey Webster was a bust.

 

Of course, we had Strahan back then too, and Pierce, and Mitchell....plus Spags calling some jailbreaks.

 

Frankly though, this 2010 Giants D is among the best I've seen in a long, long time, especially against the pass.

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