boohyah Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 The rumblings at the beggining of the year was that perhaps Diehl move inside to replace Seubert and maybe move Beatty to tackle. Well if Diehl plays like he did last night, maybe Beatty needs to move to tackle and Diehl to the bench. I know McKenzie was getting dickwhipped by Mathis, but at least he was trying to force Mathis out wide. Granted it didn't work out. But Diehl, was getting simply bullrushed by Freeney, and too make matters worse, he wasn't finishing his blocks. Twice in that game last night that I can count Diehl was being forced backwards into Eli. He didn't bother to make sure of the protection, when the Giants were close to the goaline in the second half he should have held Freeney and taken the penalty, it would only have been half the distance. But dammit if the guy didn't just stopped blocking Freeney and for some reason, changed his stance as if to block an imaginary runner coming up the middle!. Mind you, Bradshaw was already in the middle to pick up the rush. And then Freeney got Eli. Diehl did something similar later on. He's done good for us over the years, but in the last few games, even the end of last year, he's had serious problems with speed rushers, he seems to have problems getting his feet set. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 too bad beatty is out for 6-8 weeks after having foot surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balloonknot Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Can we at least get Andrews in at RT to sit down McKenzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 You've got to think Coughlin will be plugging Andrews into the line at some point. The guy is a fucking beast. I believe he's been taking reps at tackle since Beatty went down. Diehl definitely had a rough outing....but I think he'll bounce back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 You've got to think Coughlin will be plugging Andrews into the line at some point. The guy is a fucking beast. I believe he's been taking reps at tackle since Beatty went down. Diehl definitely had a rough outing....but I think he'll bounce back. I disagree, he never had feet that were truly good enough to play left tackle, he only made do because he's such a damn smart player. Last year - not this year - he lost a step that he couldn't afford to lose. I'm sure he's probably still a very good guard though. Unfortunately the Giants have five or six guys who are really good guards and nobody who is a really good tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I disagree, he never had feet that were truly good enough to play left tackle, he only made do because he's such a damn smart player. Last year - not this year - he lost a step that he couldn't afford to lose. I'm sure he's probably still a very good guard though. Unfortunately the Giants have five or six guys who are really good guards and nobody who is a really good tackle. Sean Andrews can play tackle. I hope your wrong on Diehl....I was watching the same game on Monday, and I have to admit he looked bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 You guys seem to be forgetting two things: our best tight end is injured, and Beatty took most of the snaps at LT in preseason. That's a lot to have Diehl up against. If it keeps up, then we have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 AND, I got the feeling the Giants were a little disappointed that Beatty didn't look better in camp. What was expected to be a serious competition never really materialized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 A DE like Freeney can out-maneuver Diehl on a few plays then, when he's got him unbalanced, is able to bullrush him and push him all the way back to the QB. Diehl was just getting schooled. I wish we had DEs with that combo of speed, technique and power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 A DE like Freeney can out-maneuver Diehl on a few plays then, when he's got him unbalanced, is able to bullrush him and push him all the way back to the QB. Diehl was just getting schooled. I wish we had DEs with that combo of speed, technique and power. we used to have the best...this team really misses strahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelmo Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 While Diehl was undoubtedly being thouroughly outclassed, I do think the extent of the catasprophe is definitely compounded by Boss being out. I'm happy how Eli's been looking though. Any time he had at least three seconds he made solid throws. And anything less than three seconds you can't blame him for. It's not even just the pressure, it's like the announcers kept saying, the Colts DB's know they can bump and only have to gaurd for 2.5 seconds. Had we protected Eli and at least changed up from our no LB scheme after that first series in the second quarter that the Colts scored against it, this game would've been different. We still might've lost, but it would've been a game. When we scored to open the second half, and then stopped them, down 21-7 with plenty of time, I felt the magic......I felt it....Damn pass rush. (Now I know what it was like all those years for teams facing Strahan.... I almost feel bad.) -Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 When we scored to open the second half, and then stopped them, down 21-7 with plenty of time, I felt the magic......I felt it....Damn pass rush. (Now I know what it was like all those years for teams facing Strahan.... I almost feel bad.) -Z That's EXACTLY how I felt too. "C'mon Eli! Score on this drive and we...ahhh fuck!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 A DE like Freeney can out-maneuver Diehl on a few plays then, when he's got him unbalanced, is able to bullrush him and push him all the way back to the QB. Diehl was just getting schooled. I wish we had DEs with that combo of speed, technique and power. kind of scary when you think about ware, arakpo and cole coming up twice each. he needs to lift his game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 kind of scary when you think about ware, arakpo and cole coming up twice each. he needs to lift his game To be fair I think Freeney outclasses any off those guys from a technical standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 To be fair I think Freeney outclasses any off those guys from a technical standpoint. I agree....he's in a Michael Strahan league with respect to leverage, timing, and combinations. You get a big guy like Diehl shifting his feet, a well-timed bull rush will push him back, especially if he's in mid-step anticipating an outside loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Sean Andrews can play tackle. True, although he was drafted as a guard. Or am I thinking of his brother? I hope your wrong on Diehl....I was watching the same game on Monday, and I have to admit he looked bad. I wish I were wrong on Diehl, but he's faced off with Freeney before and held his own. He was completely outclassed this week. Either his skills have declined or he has some injuries we aren't aware of. ...And there's a good point I see about Diehl mostly playing guard during the preseason. That slipped my mind...seems the team doesn't think of him as a starting LT anymore either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I agree....he's in a Michael Strahan league with respect to leverage, timing, and combinations. You get a big guy like Diehl shifting his feet, a well-timed bull rush will push him back, especially if he's in mid-step anticipating an outside loop. Please, lets not go crazy just because he whipped our guy so badly. Freeney has only three moves and doesn't bother to play the run. Strahan was an elite pass rusher, every bit on par with Freeney, but was also arguably the finest run defending DE in the game and without a doubt in my mind the most instinctive player in defending screen passes that I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Look, Deihl has been one of the better OL the giants have ever had. He has been extremely underrated hi entire career. I do like him better inside, but he has shown that he can hold his own and then some at the tackle posistion. Yes, he is getting older, but I still think he can play at a high level. He deserves a few more games before we say he is done...and as its been said, he has been playing with basically no tight end for almost two full games. Obviously I like Deihl, but I think some of use are overreacting. John Runyan, considered a great tackle used to get his ass handed to him by Strahan regularly. Freeney is an elite pass rusher at the end of his prime, but still in his prime at 30 years old, its not like Deihl was getting abused by William Joseph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Look, Deihl has been one of the better OL the giants have ever had. He has been extremely underrated hi entire career. I do like him better inside, but he has shown that he can hold his own and then some at the tackle posistion. Yes, he is getting older, but I still think he can play at a high level. He deserves a few more games before we say he is done...and as its been said, he has been playing with basically no tight end for almost two full games. Obviously I like Deihl, but I think some of use are overreacting. John Runyan, considered a great tackle used to get his ass handed to him by Strahan regularly. Freeney is an elite pass rusher, its not like Deihl was getting abused by William Joseph. 16 games in 2009, 2 in 2010...how many more do you need to see that he can't handle defensive ends anymore? I guess I shouldn't be so hard on him, its not like the Giants have any other option at the moment. I'm far more upset with Gilbride and Coughlin for not helping Diehl and McKenzie out. They were missing Boss, a huge loss, but how about a two back set? Is Madison Hedgecock such a waste of roster space we're not even using him to block when we need a blocker? The Colts DEs are so undersized, they can be effectively chipped, but the Giants barely even tried it. Instead it was tee-off-on-Eli night. Is Eli fucking Gilbride's daughter or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 The Colts DEs are so undersized, they can be effectively chipped, but the Giants barely even tried it. Instead it was tee-off-on-Eli night. Is Eli fucking Gilbride's daughter or something? Dude, it's not like we've got a 265 running back that we could put out there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 Dude, it's not like we've got a 265 running back that we could put out there.... LOL...its crap like this that makes me complain about Gilbride. I'm not normally the guy thats trashing the coaches, but sometimes that guy stubbornly misses the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 16 games in 2009, 2 in 2010...how many more do you need to see that he can't handle defensive ends anymore? I guess I shouldn't be so hard on him, its not like the Giants have any other option at the moment. I'm far more upset with Gilbride and Coughlin for not helping Diehl and McKenzie out. They were missing Boss, a huge loss, but how about a two back set? Is Madison Hedgecock such a waste of roster space we're not even using him to block when we need a blocker? The Colts DEs are so undersized, they can be effectively chipped, but the Giants barely even tried it. Instead it was tee-off-on-Eli night. Is Eli fucking Gilbride's daughter or something? Whoa! I can't find stats for the whole 2009 but as of mid November last year Diehl had only given up 2 sacks. He had one bad game against an elite DE. Where's this "16 games in 2009" coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelmo Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 If I remember correctly Jon Runyan was a pretty damn good LT and Michael Strahan used to give him a really really hard time consistently....Not saying that Freeney is Strahan..he's not...just saying Diehl's allowed to have a bad game against a great pass rusher...especially the whole second half when Freeney and Mathis were just timing the snap and teeing off cuz they knew we were passing. -Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Whoa! I can't find stats for the whole 2009 but as of mid November last year Diehl had only given up 2 sacks. He had one bad game against an elite DE. Where's this "16 games in 2009" coming from? Way more than 2 sacks by the end of the year. I found that link you saw from November, but I'm thinking those are fan compiled stats. David Diehl Stats But I've got to admit, not as bad as I thought. The number I took with me was 13 sacks in '09, but I couldn't tell you now where I got that from. 8.5 sacks is still pretty bad though. By way of comparison, according to Stats Inc. Flozell Adams in his WORST year was credited with 8 sacks allowed. Sack stats for offensive linemen are so erratic...check Diehl's line for '10...still 0 sacks "allowed". I counted two sack-fumbles on Sunday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 If I remember correctly Jon Runyan was a pretty damn good LT and Michael Strahan used to give him a really really hard time consistently....Not saying that Freeney is Strahan..he's not...just saying Diehl's allowed to have a bad game against a great pass rusher...especially the whole second half when Freeney and Mathis were just timing the snap and teeing off cuz they knew we were passing. -Z He was average. And he played right tackle, not left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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