anyone understand why

[Gspotter]

Fishgut, at this point, I suspect we could continue to disagree on a number of things, but I'm going to let this thread go already.

 

Let's just say that I'm hoping that my total assessment of JR (thus far) is premature. I know that last season was a fizzle the made watching the team a bit less enjoyable and I've suffered through the 70's with them.

 

I did appreciate today's signing of that safety, that's a nice start. If we add the right kind of linebackers, perhaps neither of us will have anything to complain about.

[Allstarjim]

this is getting to be a circle jerk.

 

If you don't understand how passing games impact the running game, then you have homework to do.

 

If you believe that I'm saying that we need Plaxico instead of our current WR's then you need to reread things. The presence that Plax brought to the game kept defenses from playing closer to the line as well as coverage. It's much easier to stop 27 because of that and so that stats bear out that we were lesser. It's not injuries and it's fairly clear that our leadership spent once on a FA that made a huge difference and now we aren't, so last year was a training wheels year for our WR core.

 

I understand that passing games and running games are intertwined. What I am saying is that Plaxico's absence was NOT, in no way, shape or form, the reason for BJ's ineffectiveness last year. BJ is an inside the tackles runner. He wasn't beating 7 man fronts, and that was my point. Most of the time he wasn't beating 6 man fronts. It didn't matter who would've been doubled... BJ suffered because he did not hit the hole like he has in the past. Nearly every sportscaster who has watched Giants games have commented on it, and it was easy to see, that BJ just wasn't running the same, for whatever reason, be it injury, self-preservation, or some mental block.

 

Signing a Brandon Marshall or even a return of Plaxico will not magically make BJ the running back of '08.

[fringe]

Jacobs had some injuries and such- so did the offensive line. eli comes up to the line usually with a run or a pass. when he counts the defenders at the line, he goes to what he thinks works. Rushing attempts were down by 12% from 2008. (about 4 rushes a game) Passing attempts were up by about the same number. That means Eli was seeing what we were seeing (well, except the sportscasters). You have to figure a lot of times, he had no choice but to go with the run, even when the numbers were against him.

[Allstarjim]

Jacobs had some injuries and such- so did the offensive line. eli comes up to the line usually with a run or a pass. when he counts the defenders at the line, he goes to what he thinks works. Rushing attempts were down by 12% from 2008. (about 4 rushes a game) Passing attempts were up by about the same number. That means Eli was seeing what we were seeing (well, except the sportscasters). You have to figure a lot of times, he had no choice but to go with the run, even when the numbers were against him.

 

 

And you don't think that the fact that we were playing from behind due to our crappy defense most of the year can explain that that statistic so much better than Eli counting defenders?

[fringe]

And you don't think that the fact that we were playing from behind due to our crappy defense most of the year can explain that that statistic so much better than Eli counting defenders?

we were playing ahead as much as playing behind. (8-8) think of the games we had to pass because we couldn't put it away with the running game.

[fishgutmartyr]

Fishgut, at this point, I suspect we could continue to disagree on a number of things, but I'm going to let this thread go already.

 

Let's just say that I'm hoping that my total assessment of JR (thus far) is premature. I know that last season was a fizzle the made watching the team a bit less enjoyable and I've suffered through the 70's with them.

 

I did appreciate today's signing of that safety, that's a nice start. If we add the right kind of linebackers, perhaps neither of us will have anything to complain about.

Fair enough.

 

Those 70's defenses really made last year tough to watch, didn't it? Just give us one LB the calibur of Kelly, Carson, or VanPelt...

[Allstarjim]

we were playing ahead as much as playing behind. (8-8) think of the games we had to pass because we couldn't put it away with the running game.

 

 

Your theory has some holes, blu. You are comparing the year before to this year. The year before we were 12-4, not 8-8. Of course we are going to pass more than the year before. Also, the year before we had a healthy O-line and a healthy Jacobs. And the year before Jacobs hit the hole hard, not dancing at the line. I think we are in agreement that we couldn't run the ball last season... but my contention is that it wasn't because in 16 games our opponents put 8 in the box on us all game (because that didn't happen) and it wasn't because Plaxico wasn't around. If it were, then Bradshaw wouldn't have ran so well for most of the year when he was healthy (and sometimes even when he wasn't.

 

The reason for the reduction in carries was obvious... we didn't have a good defense that held teams, so we had to pass, and secondly, as you said, the O-line and Jacobs wasn't healthy. I don't know how someone who watches these games can conclude that our offense missed Plaxico so badly, after the year our offense had. Our offense scored plenty of points. The defense was the culprit.

[fringe]

Your theory has some holes, blu. You are comparing the year before to this year. The year before we were 12-4, not 8-8. Of course we are going to pass more than the year before. Also, the year before we had a healthy O-line and a healthy Jacobs. And the year before Jacobs hit the hole hard, not dancing at the line. I think we are in agreement that we couldn't run the ball last season... but my contention is that it wasn't because in 16 games our opponents put 8 in the box on us all game (because that didn't happen) and it wasn't because Plaxico wasn't around. If it were, then Bradshaw wouldn't have ran so well for most of the year when he was healthy (and sometimes even when he wasn't.

 

The reason for the reduction in carries was obvious... we didn't have a good defense that held teams, so we had to pass, and secondly, as you said, the O-line and Jacobs wasn't healthy. I don't know how someone who watches these games can conclude that our offense missed Plaxico so badly, after the year our offense had. Our offense scored plenty of points. The defense was the culprit.

 

2 things can equally be true. not saying that our offense couldn't run without plax. saying that it made it tougher to run because the defenses didn't respect the receivers we had. (that doesn't mean they were right) there were a myriad of reasons for the decline in rushing. what you said is one, what g and me are saying is another. comes down to balance- we didn't have it- and it was a credit to eli and the OC that the offense was decent.

[BronxRik]

So, um, does anyone understand why we offered a 2nd round tender for Moss?

[Allstarjim]

So, um, does anyone understand why we offered a 2nd round tender for Moss?

 

 

LOL Rik.

 

Fair enough, Blu. We definitely agree on the points you made there. I do think it can be an advantage going forward if defenses continue to disrespect our receiverrs. Let's talk about the draft, shall we? Less than 3 weeks away!

[fringe]

So, um, does anyone understand why we offered a 2nd round tender for Moss?

 

i think it was a 2nd round chicken tender- no fries.

[Mr. P]

i think it was a 2nd round chicken tender- no fries.

 

[Nas]

Your theory has some holes, blu. You are comparing the year before to this year. The year before we were 12-4, not 8-8. Of course we are going to pass more than the year before. Also, the year before we had a healthy O-line and a healthy Jacobs. And the year before Jacobs hit the hole hard, not dancing at the line. I think we are in agreement that we couldn't run the ball last season... but my contention is that it wasn't because in 16 games our opponents put 8 in the box on us all game (because that didn't happen) and it wasn't because Plaxico wasn't around. If it were, then Bradshaw wouldn't have ran so well for most of the year when he was healthy (and sometimes even when he wasn't.

 

The reason for the reduction in carries was obvious... we didn't have a good defense that held teams, so we had to pass, and secondly, as you said, the O-line and Jacobs wasn't healthy. I don't know how someone who watches these games can conclude that our offense missed Plaxico so badly, after the year our offense had. Our offense scored plenty of points. The defense was the culprit.

 

So you're saying some dudes, wrongly I may add, mistaken the ills on our offense and blame the receiving game.. citing Plaxico's absence.. when in fact our passing offense was the only thing we got. Well said Jim I swear you should be an analyst on ESPN.

[Storm]

So you're saying some dudes, wrongly I may add, mistaken the ills on our offense and blame the receiving game.. citing Plaxico's absence.. when in fact our passing offense was the only thing we got. Well said Jim I swear you should be an analyst on ESPN.

 

But only the ocho though....

[hlb37]

So, um, does anyone understand why we offered a 2nd round tender for Moss?

 

 

I am still pretty sure it had to do with the second round tender for Cofield ( 4th rd in moss' draft class ).

 

There is some arcane rule that says Moss was 2nd rd that year so if you want to move Cofield up you have to tender and 1, 2 or 3rder from that class as their original draft position.

 

or something like that.

[Gspotter]

having an intermediate passing game against good teams is all the difference. Short ball makes for tight defensive sets.