I wouldn't mind this hire at all.

[CrazedDogs]

 

No way, dude. He's injury will take at least a year to completely heal up. We need a 4-3 defensive coach.

 

Thats really depressing, means we've got Cofield and a whole lot of nobody. And without a viable rotation at NT, a 3-4 isn't worth shit.

 

But if what we've got is 4-3 personnel, I see little reason a guy who's traditionally coached a 3-4 couldn't adjust...its not that different. These days there isn't a team in the league that doesn't blend their alignments and use facets of either style throughout a game.

 

And besides, part of me thinks the Giants have a good start on a 3-4. Osi and Kiwi are only slightly large for 3-4 OLBs, and like a 3-4 DE Tuck is right at home playing against interior linemen. Its just that damn elusive nose tackle.

[JMFP]

Thats really depressing, means we've got Cofield and a whole lot of nobody. And without a viable rotation at NT, a 3-4 isn't worth shit.

 

But if what we've got is 4-3 personnel, I see little reason a guy who's traditionally coached a 3-4 couldn't adjust...its not that different. These days there isn't a team in the league that doesn't blend their alignments and use facets of either style throughout a game.

 

And besides, part of me thinks the Giants have a good start on a 3-4. Osi and Kiwi are only slightly large for 3-4 OLBs, and like a 3-4 DE Tuck is right at home playing against interior linemen. Its just that damn elusive nose tackle.

 

 

Green Bay went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and their defense improved dramatically.

 

Bottom line: these guys are supposed to be football players... either adjust to the new system or get the fuck off the team.

[CrazedDogs]

Green Bay went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and their defense improved dramatically.

 

Bottom line: these guys are supposed to be football players... either adjust to the new system or get the fuck off the team.

 

And Aaron Kampman plays OLB at about 270. I think both Osi and Kiwi have better feet than Kampman, and he does pretty well.

[boohyah]

Nah. Pepper's the man and all that but I think that's a huge overhaul. This team's been playing 4-3 for years and there's no need to change, just upgrade the positions. Jauron might be vanilla personality, but he's got the pedigree to be successful.

[Mr. P]

Nah. Pepper's the man and all that but I think that's a huge overhaul. This team's been playing 4-3 for years and there's no need to change, just upgrade the positions. Jauron might be vanilla personality, but he's got the pedigree to be successful.

 

i think any DC worth hiring would be smart enough to adapt his schemes to a team better suited for 4-3.

[boohyah]

i think any DC worth hiring would be smart enough to adapt his schemes to a team better suited for 4-3.

 

It's a big change Dub,

[Mr. P]

It's a big change Dub,

 

but for a good DC it should be do-able in my opinion. and if the DC we hire cant do that then hes not really the DC i want.

[NeMesiS]

Green Bay went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, and their defense improved dramatically.

 

Bottom line: these guys are supposed to be football players... either adjust to the new system or get the fuck off the team.

Yeah, but they had 2 number 1 draft picks and 5 good LBs to make the transition. Nick Barnett, A. J. Hawk, Brad Jones, Clay Matthews, Brady Poppinga.

 

 

Our LBs...not so much.

 

Ryan Pickett was more suited for the 3-4 anyway. At 340 lbs, he's more of a NT than DT.... Then the Packers moved Jolly and Jenkins to DE. Draft Baji to play NT and Bam.... You have your 3-4 defense.

 

Our DT...Not so much.

 

We can not make that transition like the Packers. +

[Treehugger]

Are there any decent NTs coming up in FA?

[NeMesiS]

Are there any decent NTs coming up in FA?

I heard Vince Wilfork is a free agent.

[JMFP]

For those keeping score at home, our defense completely sucked. Therefore, I'm less apprehensive in making big changes.

 

The question I have is this - given the proliferation of West Coast offenses, what scheme is the most effective? I'd argue that I'd rather see 4 fast, aggressive linebackers out there.

 

I can easily see Reese putting the pieces in place for a 3-4 within one season.

 

I remember last year, we were all wondering how the Giants could replace Plaxico and Toomer....done.

[NightFire]

Yeah, but they had 2 number 1 draft picks and 5 good LBs to make the transition. Nick Barnett, A. J. Hawk, Brad Jones, Clay Matthews, Brady Poppinga.

 

 

Our LBs...not so much.

 

Ryan Pickett was more suited for the 3-4 anyway. At 340 lbs, he's more of a NT than DT.... Then the Packers moved Jolly and Jenkins to DE. Draft Baji to play NT and Bam.... You have your 3-4 defense.

 

Our DT...Not so much.

 

We can not make that transition like the Packers. +

 

Exactly and I am not sure what all this doom and gloom with 4-3 is. The Giants D sucked this year but won a SB only 2 years ago basically on D. The NFL hasn't completely changed in 2 years. How about we get a competent DC before we decide to gut the whole system.

[fringe]

Exactly and I am not sure what all this doom and gloom with 4-3 is. The Giants D sucked this year but won a SB only 2 years ago basically on D. The NFL hasn't completely changed in 2 years. How about we get a competent DC before we decide to gut the whole system.

good point, wolf. for me, let's get the best available guy. he'd have to be willing to assess the talent and do what's best for the team. not just put his signature on the D. Whisenhunt is a staunch supporter of the 3-4, having come from pittsburgh. but he's changing over gradually in AZ as talent permits. 49ers, are running a mixture of 4-3, 3-4 on different sets.

right now, it's not the system that sucks but the players execution. either way, there will probably be 6 or 7 new faces on D next year.

[Mr. P]

but for a good DC it should be do-able in my opinion. and if the DC we hire cant do that then hes not really the DC i want.

 

romeo's agent:

 

"If Coughlin said, 'Romeo, I want you to run a 4-3,' Romeo would say okay and figure out a way to make it work," Linta said.

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/01/ny_giants_contact_romeo_crenne.html

[NeMesiS]

romeo's agent:

 

 

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/01/ny_giants_contact_romeo_crenne.html

 

 

Isn't that the problem we had with Tim Lewis? He was a 3-4 coach trying to run a 4-3 defense. You can't do it.

[BIGBLUE01]

Exactly and I am not sure what all this doom and gloom with 4-3 is. The Giants D sucked this year but won a SB only 2 years ago basically on D. The NFL hasn't completely changed in 2 years. How about we get a competent DC before we decide to gut the whole system.

 

Thats what Im saying. This whole rebuilding thing is not needed.

[Mr. P]

Isn't that the problem we had with Tim Lewis? He was a 3-4 coach trying to run a 4-3 defense. You can't do it.

 

hahah i think its not very accurate to think that because tim lewis sucked at it that romeo crennel would also suck at it. romeo coached a 4-3 early in his pats career and i believe he did some at cleveland also.

[CrazedDogs]

Isn't that the problem we had with Tim Lewis? He was a 3-4 coach trying to run a 4-3 defense. You can't do it.

 

As I recall, the problem with Tim Lewis was with the coverage schemes in the back four. This was the guy who would rush six but have every DB lined up like ten yards off the ball. Same problem he had in Pittsburgh too (man, we should have listened to those guys....it went down exactly like the Pittsburgh fans said it would).

 

Maybe its just because its been a while, but I can't recall any problem adjusting his schemes to the front seven.

 

Here's the thing...whether you've got three or four guys down in a stance, the D still has the same total number of gaps it has to cover...defense is defense. Whether you're putting these guys down on the line or backing them up a few yards is more about the talent of the specific players and the situation than this imagined mystical difference between 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams.

 

For example, some 3-4s AND some 4-3s are more like a 5-2 alignment (this is where the SAM in a 4-3 and the OLBs in a 3-4 have a gap responsibility like a defensive lineman), and are therefore more similar to each other than they may be to other 4-3s and 3-4s.

 

I just don't think its that important to focus on overly simplified schematic labels.

[JMFP]

As I recall, the problem with Tim Lewis was with the coverage schemes in the back four. This was the guy who would rush six but have every DB lined up like ten yards off the ball. Same problem he had in Pittsburgh too (man, we should have listened to those guys....it went down exactly like the Pittsburgh fans said it would).

 

Maybe its just because its been a while, but I can't recall any problem adjusting his schemes to the front seven.

 

Here's the thing...whether you've got three or four guys down in a stance, the D still has the same total number of gaps it has to cover...defense is defense. Whether you're putting these guys down on the line or backing them up a few yards is more about the talent of the specific players and the situation than this imagined mystical difference between 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams.

 

For example, some 3-4s AND some 4-3s are more like a 5-2 alignment (this is where the SAM in a 4-3 and the OLBs in a 3-4 have a gap responsibility like a defensive lineman), and are therefore more similar to each other than they may be to other 4-3s and 3-4s.

 

I just don't think its that important to focus on overly simplified schematic labels.

 

100% Agreed

 

Look at some prior Giants Defensive Coordinators

 

Sheridan = zero people skills, wanted to run the D from the box.

Spags = awesome people skills, ran the defense from the field

Tim Lewis = zero people skills, ran the defense from the box.

Johnnie Lynn = so bad my mind has blocked out what he did, but I think he was a box guy

Fox = awesome people skills, ran the defense from the field

 

Going back a bit further, to the 3-4 glory years....

 

Belichick = brilliant mind made up for vanilla personality, ran the defense from the field

Parcells (under Ray Perkins) = tremendous motivator made up for course exterior, ran the defense from the field.

 

The point is this - a good coordinator is more about how he handles his men than about the particular scheme. Can the guy prepare his players to be ready and fired up to go?

 

Romeo has 3 Super Bowl Rings in 4 years with Belichick at New England. And he had more success in Cleveland than Belichick did. Plus, he won two Super Bowls as an assistant under Parcells with the Giants.

 

I'm going to take a wild guess that Romeo would run the system that gets the best results from the guys that Reese gives him....and down the road, if/when he feels he has all his guys, he'll likely go with the scheme that is the most effective. And in today's West Coast world, I'm more convinced than ever that scheme is a 3-4.

 

Like I said elsewhere, watch Dallas beat the Eagles for the 3rd time in a row, and in particular, watch what their linebackers do to disrupt screens and corrall the tight end..

 

I understand the next DeMarcus Ware won't just fall into the Giants laps, but Reese and Coughlin need to wake the fuck up and start restocking that position immediately.

 

Reese needs to add 3 players for the 3-4 to get off the ground: A bona fide nose tackle, and two more linebackers.

 

They've got Boley, who I think is better than what this crappy defense surrounded him with. Sintim and Goff are projects....they need to dump Clark for an actual NFL free agent stud, and then draft another blue-chipper. If Pierce can hold up one more season, maybe they can restructure his contract and keep him around for his veteran leadership and football mind. He could be an eventual coach in this league....that should motivate him to groom a replacement.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

As I recall, the problem with Tim Lewis was with the coverage schemes in the back four. This was the guy who would rush six but have every DB lined up like ten yards off the ball. Same problem he had in Pittsburgh too (man, we should have listened to those guys....it went down exactly like the Pittsburgh fans said it would).

 

Maybe its just because its been a while, but I can't recall any problem adjusting his schemes to the front seven.

 

Here's the thing...whether you've got three or four guys down in a stance, the D still has the same total number of gaps it has to cover...defense is defense. Whether you're putting these guys down on the line or backing them up a few yards is more about the talent of the specific players and the situation than this imagined mystical difference between 3-4 teams and 4-3 teams.

 

For example, some 3-4s AND some 4-3s are more like a 5-2 alignment (this is where the SAM in a 4-3 and the OLBs in a 3-4 have a gap responsibility like a defensive lineman), and are therefore more similar to each other than they may be to other 4-3s and 3-4s.

 

I just don't think its that important to focus on overly simplified schematic labels.

 

 

For the most part LT was a stand up DE....with an OLB label. He had fair to decent coverage skills but he was paid for rushing the passer first and second...with the third being stop the run...with the fourth being in pass defense.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Tim Lewis a box guy who the players absolutely hated....Johnny Lynn a box guy who the players liked and respected but he just sucked as a DC.

[Treehugger]

Tim Lewis a box guy who the players absolutely hated....Johnny Lynn a box guy who the players liked and respected but he just sucked as a DC.

Was it Lewis or Lynn who spent an entire team meeting going over the defensive scheme for the wrong opponent?

[CrazedDogs]

Was it Lewis or Lynn who spent an entire team meeting going over the defensive scheme for the wrong opponent?

 

That was Lynn. I remember because it was at the end of the Fassel era, that incident probably had a lot to do with Fassel getting fired.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Was it Lewis or Lynn who spent an entire team meeting going over the defensive scheme for the wrong opponent?

 

 

Yep as CD wrote it was Lynn man...lololol...I was as mad as hell and still laughed at it. I believe Lynn was a pure Rooney hire to the detriment of the other Rooney hires with skills. I always found it strange that a guy who made his living playing as a WR becomes a defensive coach.

[NeMesiS]

 

It's like watching your brother get ass kicked and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

Guys, WE...DO NOT... HAVE...THE LB...NOR NT... TO PLAY... 3-4 DEFENSE.

 

All of our LB are small, slow and not very good pass rusher. Pretty much the opposite you need to have a 3-4 defense. (Except for Sintim)

 

The only DL that has experience playing the 3-4 is Canty... And we just paid him 40 Mil for a position that are pretty expendable.