The Giants will make the playoffs

[Storm]

We lost to Philly twice, and they lost to Oakland. Anything is possible, that's all I'm saying.

 

If NO plays like they did against the Redskins, Dallas will beat them.

 

Or if Dallas plays like they played against us and San Diego, the Saints win...I get ya...

[fishgutmartyr]

DETROIT HAS NEVER WON ANYTHING, FOR THE SECOND TIME. Of course that's what they'd choose.

Wrong.

NFL Championships (4)

1935, 1952, 1953, 1957

 

Conference championships (6)

 

* NFL National: 1952

* NFL Western: 1953, 1954, 1957

 

Division championships (7)

 

* NFL West: 1935

* NFC Central: 1983, 1991, 1993

 

Playoff appearances (14)

 

* NFL: 1935, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1957, 1970, 1982, 1983, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1999

 

They've been in the playoffs as late as 1999. They were consistently in the playoffs throughout the '90s.

 

Fitzgerald is an integral part of the Arizona Cardinals...without him, they most likely aren't anywhere near as good as they are in offense. That's how rebuilding works. You have a losing season, you get a high draft pick and re-evaluate your current crop of players, letting veterans and former draft picks go alike. I'm sure Arizona was ecstatic the day they drafted him.

 

Yeah, I get the idea about how teams are built. But that's not the question I posed, either. And you're crazy if you think Cards fans aren't happier now than they were in '04.

 

We're two years removed from the Super Bowl and have made the playoffs something like 5 of the last 6 years. That is spoiled and I can deal with sitting at home this year because we simply DON'T DESERVE TO BE IN THE PLAYOFFS. I have never, in my life, seen a worse Giants defense. The whole team, every facet of this team, plays with no intensity or heart. It's straight up embarrassing when you can't even win a game scoring nearly 40 points.

 

If we do what needs to happen to get into the playoffs, then WE DESERVE TO BE IN THE PLAYOFFS. We'd be 10-6, have a 3-game winning streak, and the defense would have had to improve. If that doesn't happen, and I objectively don't think it will, then we don't deserve to be in the playoffs. It's not rocket science.

 

But hoping it doesn't happen? Never. I won't hope for bad things to happen in a season, just so we can "win" the off season. Leave that shit to the Redskins. The entire point of the regular season is to get into the playoffs, and go as far as you can. We won the off season this year, remember?

This year, we suck terribly. Next year will be for reworking and re-evaluating our current talent and getting rid of dead weight like AP, Dockery, Johnson & Johnson, Clark, etc, etc. Get some young playmakers through the draft (*GASP* a top 15 defensive stud!? Not since LT have we drafted a game changing defensive player in the first round) and free agency and insert them where the crappy players were and we're nearly automatically better.

Our defense sucks right now. Our kickers suck. It's not as bad as you seem to believe: a real coordinator, MLB, and some safeties would go a long way, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. But a complete reworking in the off season is not necessary: Canty, Cofield,and Alford will be a good rotation of DTs when healthy; if Phillips comes back, we're partly there at safety. Michael Johnson at safety is OK if he's given some guidance--he's not a QB back there, and has been forced into the role because of injuries. He'd be more than adequate in a backup role. The other Johnson is an undrafted rookie FA this year that has seen far more playing time than he should have; and given the circumstances, he did OK. I don't know what the hell happened to Dockery this year.

 

Our linebackers need to be rebuilt, like they've need to be for years. Other than Boley, none of them have shown much; maybe Goff will, if we're lucky. We haven't seen a LB play at a consistently good level since Michael Barrow, and that's not saying much (Yeah, yeah, Mitchell. I'm talking over multiple seasons.). Pierce, although a good tactician, hasn't really been the same since his high-ankle sprain in 2005.

 

This season is more a product of Sheridan's failures as a coordinator than anything else. Given a lousy choice, I'd rather see Tim Lewis in there than Sheridan: we'd be mediocre on D, but that would be enough. You can see the confusion on the D every game--this guy can't even get the players in position, let alone in a position to succeed.

 

Carl Banks would be rather upset to find out that we haven't drafted a game changing defensive player in the first round since LT. Unless by game changing, you mean HOF'er; but then not too many teams in the league have done that, either. I think if Kenny Phillips had stayed healthy, you might have been mistaken there as well. And the fact of the matter is drafting in the top 15 for a defensive player doesn't mean shit if he doesn't perform (Cedric Jones).

[Storm]

Wrong.

NFL Championships (4)

1935, 1952, 1953, 1957

 

Conference championships (6)

 

* NFL National: 1952

* NFL Western: 1953, 1954, 1957

 

Division championships (7)

 

* NFL West: 1935

* NFC Central: 1983, 1991, 1993

 

Playoff appearances (14)

 

* NFL: 1935, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1957, 1970, 1982, 1983, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1999

 

They've been in the playoffs as late as 1999. They were consistently in the playoffs throughout the '90s.

 

 

 

Yeah, I get the idea about how teams are built. But that's not the question I posed, either. And you're crazy if you think Cards fans aren't happier now than they were in '04.

 

 

 

If we do what needs to happen to get into the playoffs, then WE DESERVE TO BE IN THE PLAYOFFS. We'd be 10-6, have a 3-game winning streak, and the defense would have had to improve. If that doesn't happen, and I objectively don't think it will, then we don't deserve to be in the playoffs. It's not rocket science.

 

But hoping it doesn't happen? Never. I won't hope for bad things to happen in a season, just so we can "win" the off season. Leave that shit to the Redskins. The entire point of the regular season is to get into the playoffs, and go as far as you can. We won the off season this year, remember?

 

Our defense sucks right now. Our kickers suck. It's not as bad as you seem to believe: a real coordinator, MLB, and some safeties would go a long way, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. But a complete reworking in the off season is not necessary: Canty, Cofield,and Alford will be a good rotation of DTs when healthy; if Phillips comes back, we're partly there at safety. Michael Johnson at safety is OK if he's given some guidance--he's not a QB back there, and has been forced into the role because of injuries. He'd be more than adequate in a backup role. The other Johnson is an undrafted rookie FA this year that has seen far more playing time than he should have; and given the circumstances, he did OK. I don't know what the hell happened to Dockery this year.

 

Our linebackers need to be rebuilt, like they've need to be for years. Other than Boley, none of them have shown much; maybe Goff will, if we're lucky. We haven't seen a LB play at a consistently good level since Michael Barrow, and that's not saying much (Yeah, yeah, Mitchell. I'm talking over multiple seasons.). Pierce, although a good tactician, hasn't really been the same since his high-ankle sprain in 2005.

 

This season is more a product of Sheridan's failures as a coordinator than anything else. Given a lousy choice, I'd rather see Tim Lewis in there than Sheridan: we'd be mediocre on D, but that would be enough. You can see the confusion on the D every game--this guy can't even get the players in position, let alone in a position to succeed.

 

Carl Banks would be rather upset to find out that we haven't drafted a game changing defensive player in the first round since LT. Unless by game changing, you mean HOF'er; but then not too many teams in the league have done that, either. I think if Kenny Phillips had stayed healthy, you might have been mistaken there as well. And the fact of the matter is drafting in the top 15 for a defensive player doesn't mean shit if he doesn't perform (Cedric Jones).

 

So, the Bills and the Lions have the longest playoff drought? Not even a single SUPER BOWL appearance? You can't even compare our situations. Super Bowl win 07, another Super Bowl appearance in 00...twice since the last time the Lions have even been in the playoffs. I'm sure they'd rather have a winning season, I would too, but the guys on this team aren't winners this year. Therefore, I'll take our measly 8-8 at best record and stay at home. Going to the playoffs to what is an assured loss in the first round is kind of pointless. There's not a good team we can beat.

 

I didn't say Cards fans aren't happier now than when they missed the playoffs, but I'm sure given a time machine and the choice of not being able to pick up such an integral part of their current team or be one and done, most would choose Larry Fitz and Super Bowl appearance. Of course, this point of your "argument" is irrelevant because this would require one to look in hindsight back at a team that wasn't anywhere close to making the playoffs, anyway.

 

I know if my team was that bad and had no chance, I'd choose Larry Fitzgerald every time. Just like I know how bad this Giants team is. It's not going to be fixed or it'd have been fixed by now. We are 2-6 in the last 8 games!! 2 and 6. 2 wins and 6 losses. And we didn't look very good in the Atlanta game OR the Dallas game. And yes, we out gained Philly. Manning, despite his supposed improved play, had 2 fumbles and a key missed first down(part of one of the fumbles). Jacobs and Hixon added 2 more fumbles. Hmmm, consider the fact that Philly, with the short field, capitalized on several of those turnovers, and the offensive difference between our two teams really is completely insignificant. Gained yards don't cancel out the multiple mistakes and lackadaisical play(are you kidding me!? standing around and NOT picking up a potential fumble when EVERY OTHER COMPLETELY OBVIOUS INCOMPLETION IS PICKED UP AND RETURNED TO THE END ZONE, DESPITE AN OBVIOUS WHISTLE, WASTING TIME AND LOOKING STUPID IN THE PROCESS!!) , week after freaking week. either.

 

How do you figure we won the offseason this year? I don't even get what you mean by this...if you're suggesting that personnel changes either don't help improve teams or that the Giants somehow had even a top ten offseason, you've got to be kidding. We picked up two defensive tackles, Boley, and like....CC Brown.

 

Fine, I see where you could be going...we actually went out and spent SOME money for once and most of those guys we got are poopers....that's on the front office...should have watched some different team's film or something...of course pulling guys off the Texans(CC) and Seahawks(Rocky) are bad ideas. Changes need to be made on this roster, especially regarding depth...and some starting positions at the LB, safety,and possibly even right tackle position...

 

But didn't Michael Johnson always play safety? Is it that new to him that he can't figure out his face from his ass out there?

 

I can't say with confidence that we're better than the Washington Redskins, at this point. Record wise of course we are....but my point is, if we lose this week, we better be scoping out some of the other players on the team and be using it as a second training camp...guys playing for jobs. Besides, THAT would get a team motivated, because it's obvious that the thought of the playoffs doesn't and neither does all the Tiki Barber and Michael Strahan speeches in the world. This team, especially on defense, has deep seeded problems that stem from Sheridan, who is responsible for single handedly returning this defense to pre-2007 levels. Actually, I can't even say that, because with the talent pool this defense has, many of the mistakes they are making isn't necessarily from them being led astray by Sheridan....missed tackles, letting receivers run free in the secondary, standing around watching fumbles, not getting any pressure (Osi's forced fumble sack was the first d line sack in 4 weeks I believe), etc, etc.

 

And my point about picking top 15 is we might get an Ed Reed type player...someone who can step up and make a big play when it's needed...instead of finally getting a lead only to have the defense give up and allow 88 yard drives. We might not, too, but defensive playmakers tend to go right around 10-15, after the QBs, RBs, and OL....

[fishgutmartyr]

So, the Bills and the Lions have the longest playoff drought? Not even a single SUPER BOWL appearance? You can't even compare our situations. Super Bowl win 07, another Super Bowl appearance in 00...twice since the last time the Lions have even been in the playoffs. I'm sure they'd rather have a winning season, I would too, but the guys on this team aren't winners this year. Therefore, I'll take our measly 8-8 at best record and stay at home. Going to the playoffs to what is an assured loss in the first round is kind of pointless. There's not a good team we can beat.

Ok. This is barely coherent. Where did the Bills come from?

 

Detroit. How many top 15 picks have they had this decade? Don't you think they'd rather have the one and done?

 

You're assuming 8-8. That hasn't happened yet. 10-6 is also possible, if not likely. I think we wind up 9-7, and just miss. But there have also been plenty of 9-7 teams that not only got into the playoffs, but went far into them.

 

I didn't say Cards fans aren't happier now than when they missed the playoffs, but I'm sure given a time machine and the choice of not being able to pick up such an integral part of their current team or be one and done, most would choose Larry Fitz and Super Bowl appearance. Of course, this point of your "argument" is irrelevant because this would require one to look in hindsight back at a team that wasn't anywhere close to making the playoffs, anyway.

 

There are no time machines. Cards fans would have been thrilled to get to the playoffs in 2003.

 

What I asked was if you thought that Cards fans were happier in April of 2004 or January/February of 2009. There is no hindsight involved.

 

I know if my team was that bad and had no chance, I'd choose Larry Fitzgerald every time. Just like I know how bad this Giants team is. It's not going to be fixed or it'd have been fixed by now. We are 2-6 in the last 8 games!! 2 and 6. 2 wins and 6 losses.

 

Well, we were 5-0 at the beginning of the season, and that turned around. Anything is possible. We have to wait and see.

 

And we didn't look very good in the Atlanta game OR the Dallas game. And yes, we out gained Philly. Manning, despite his supposed improved play, had 2 fumbles and a key missed first down(part of one of the fumbles). Jacobs and Hixon added 2 more fumbles. Hmmm, consider the fact that Philly, with the short field, capitalized on several of those turnovers, and the offensive difference between our two teams really is completely insignificant. Gained yards don't cancel out the multiple mistakes and lackadaisical play(are you kidding me!? standing around and NOT picking up a potential fumble when EVERY OTHER COMPLETELY OBVIOUS INCOMPLETION IS PICKED UP AND RETURNED TO THE END ZONE, DESPITE AN OBVIOUS WHISTLE, WASTING TIME AND LOOKING STUPID IN THE PROCESS!!) , week after freaking week. either.

This started as a paragraph and wound up being a rant. We looked OK in the Dallas game--yes, they passed a lot. No, I didn't have flashbacks to '86. But for once the D did enough to win. And we made the plays we needed to make. If you're expecting some magical transformation of the defense into a top-ten defense with all the injuries up the middle and an incompetent DC, you're going to be severely disappointed. All this defense is able to do, even if Spags was DC, is give us enough of a chance for the offense to win games.

 

I don't know how you can criticize Manning's game against the Eagles. There was enough offense to win that game, period. Jacobs has fumbled twice this season. Shit happens. They're not machines, and the other team does get to make plays as well.

 

How do you figure we won the offseason this year? I don't even get what you mean by this...if you're suggesting that personnel changes either don't help improve teams or that the Giants somehow had even a top ten offseason, you've got to be kidding. We picked up two defensive tackles, Boley, and like....CC Brown.

 

Fine, I see where you could be going...we actually went out and spent SOME money for once and most of those guys we got are poopers....that's on the front office...should have watched some different team's film or something...of course pulling guys off the Texans(CC) and Seahawks(Rocky) are bad ideas. Changes need to be made on this roster, especially regarding depth...and some starting positions at the LB, safety,and possibly even right tackle position...

You might recall everyone raving about our acquisitions this off season. And they made sense, if they could have been used as originally intended--Boley and Canty never had a preseason. That killed Canty. Bernard stinks, but he wasn't intended to play as many downs as he has this season, either. The real rotation was supposed to be Robbins, Cofield, Canty and Alford; with Bernard coming in on passing downs. I said earlier in the season our DTs weren't getting enough of a rotation because of Canty and Alford being out as much as they have been. If they had, maybe Cofield would have gotten better sooner and Robbins would have stood a real chance of coming back.

 

Brown was signed as a backup. If he wasn't starting, he might have been barely adequate for a game or two. Barely. All right, who am I kidding? Reese screwed the pooch on that one...

 

Wilkinson is gone. Kehl is useless, as is Clark. Blackburn is a backup. I doubt we'll see Pierce next year, and DeOssie is a long snapper and that's about it. If Sintim doesn't pan out, and Goff doesn't show signs of improvement over the next couple of weeks, that squad is fucked beyond a single season of upgrades.

 

Safety depends on if Phillips comes back. God knows what the deal is with Ross.

 

I'd be shocked if Sheridan is DC beyond January. Coughlin is already making the same sounds he did before Hufnagel went.

 

Beatty is a starter next year. It's just a matter of where.

 

But didn't Michael Johnson always play safety? Is it that new to him that he can't figure out his face from his ass out there?

 

This is his second full season. He played occasionally in 2007, when Gibril was leading things. Last year he was second fiddle to Butler. If Phillips was still playing, Johnson would be getting directions from him. Besides, this his second coordinator already. He's a decent player, and a great 7th round pick. But he's not up to this.

 

I can't say with confidence that we're better than the Washington Redskins, at this point. Record wise of course we are....but my point is, if we lose this week, we better be scoping out some of the other players on the team and be using it as a second training camp...guys playing for jobs. Besides, THAT would get a team motivated, because it's obvious that the thought of the playoffs doesn't and neither does all the Tiki Barber and Michael Strahan speeches in the world. This team, especially on defense, has deep seeded problems that stem from Sheridan, who is responsible for single handedly returning this defense to pre-2007 levels. Actually, I can't even say that, because with the talent pool this defense has, many of the mistakes they are making isn't necessarily from them being led astray by Sheridan....missed tackles, letting receivers run free in the secondary, standing around watching fumbles, not getting any pressure (Osi's forced fumble sack was the first d line sack in 4 weeks I believe), etc, etc.

We're better than the Redskins. That team is a mess from top to bottom. Snyder is already shopping for a shiny new head coach. Their improvement is that they aren't losing as ugly as earlier in the season.

 

If we lose this week, there is no argument, is there? In reality, there isn't much of one now--we both know the defense is fucked right now, just we're disagreeing on scope; I hope we win, and you don't. That's about it, right?

And my point about picking top 15 is we might get an Ed Reed type player...someone who can step up and make a big play when it's needed...instead of finally getting a lead only to have the defense give up and allow 88 yard drives. We might not, too, but defensive playmakers tend to go right around 10-15, after the QBs, RBs, and OL....

I think we lost two players to IR that were going to have outstanding seasons. Alford was showing signs of going to another level in preseason, and Phillips was kicking ass and taking names in the few games he did play. Tuck having his shoulder fucked up didn't help much, either.

[Allstarjim]

Game changing defensive players we've drafted since LT:

 

 

Leonard Marshall

Carl Banks

Pepper Johnson

Keith Hamilton

Michael Strahan

Jesse Armstead (people forget how great he was)

Osi Umenyiora (he's not all the way back yet, but even still he's forced 4 fumbles this year and has an outside chance to have his 3rd double digit sack season)

Justin Tuck

Corey Webster (in the conversation of best CB in the NFL)

Kenny Phillips (when healthy he is a game changer)

 

 

There are some players that need not be given up on yet. Kehl is one of them. He is only in his second season this year. He is our second best linebacker in terms of pass coverage next to Boley.

 

Sintim... this guy is highly thought of, can probably start next year at the strong side, and I would imagine will really help Osi out in run defense. He's only a rookie!

 

Terrell Thomas does not get enough credit for what he's done in only his second year. He is a very good CB and has a chance to be a GREAT CB with some continued development.

 

Chris Canty... still think this guy's a stud and he will prove that before his Giants tenure is over.

 

Barry Cofield is one of the most underappreciated guys we've had in recent memory.

 

This defense has a lot of talent on it... emerging talent that just needs some time to work together and some health. Our biggest problem is inexperience in the linebacking corps and being so thin at safety.

 

But our front 4 has yet to hit their stride together because of all the injuries. They still have a chance to do just that and when they do, they can take over a game.

[Nas]

DETROIT HAS NEVER WON ANYTHING, FOR THE SECOND TIME. Of course that's what they'd choose.

 

Fitzgerald is an integral part of the Arizona Cardinals...without him, they most likely aren't anywhere near as good as they are in offense. That's how rebuilding works. You have a losing season, you get a high draft pick and re-evaluate your current crop of players, letting veterans and former draft picks go alike. I'm sure Arizona was ecstatic the day they drafted him.

 

We're two years removed from the Super Bowl and have made the playoffs something like 5 of the last 6 years. That is spoiled and I can deal with sitting at home this year because we simply DON'T DESERVE TO BE IN THE PLAYOFFS. I have never, in my life, seen a worse Giants defense. The whole team, every facet of this team, plays with no intensity or heart. It's straight up embarrassing when you can't even win a game scoring nearly 40 points.

 

This year, we suck terribly. Next year will be for reworking and re-evaluating our current talent and getting rid of dead weight like AP, Dockery, Johnson & Johnson, Clark, etc, etc. Get some young playmakers through the draft (*GASP* a top 15 defensive stud!? Not since LT have we drafted a game changing defensive player in the first round) and free agency and insert them where the crappy players were and we're nearly automatically better.

 

You know storm, you maybe right that you have never seen a defense this atrocioius on a giants team.. however it seems clear that the problem is not so much players as it it's coaching... Bill Sheridan has failed.. miserably. We can make the playoffs and make a splash and still get a DC worth a damn... hell if it's up to me I'd hire a DC right now...

[CrazedDogs]

Jesus, Storm...nobody ever told you don't get out of a hole by digging deeper, eh?

[Storm]

Ok. This is barely coherent. Where did the Bills come from?

 

Detroit. How many top 15 picks have they had this decade? Don't you think they'd rather have the one and done?

 

You're assuming 8-8. That hasn't happened yet. 10-6 is also possible, if not likely. I think we wind up 9-7, and just miss. But there have also been plenty of 9-7 teams that not only got into the playoffs, but went far into them.

 

 

 

There are no time machines. Cards fans would have been thrilled to get to the playoffs in 2003.

 

What I asked was if you thought that Cards fans were happier in April of 2004 or January/February of 2009. There is no hindsight involved.

 

 

 

Well, we were 5-0 at the beginning of the season, and that turned around. Anything is possible. We have to wait and see.

 

 

This started as a paragraph and wound up being a rant. We looked OK in the Dallas game--yes, they passed a lot. No, I didn't have flashbacks to '86. But for once the D did enough to win. And we made the plays we needed to make. If you're expecting some magical transformation of the defense into a top-ten defense with all the injuries up the middle and an incompetent DC, you're going to be severely disappointed. All this defense is able to do, even if Spags was DC, is give us enough of a chance for the offense to win games.

 

I don't know how you can criticize Manning's game against the Eagles. There was enough offense to win that game, period. Jacobs has fumbled twice this season. Shit happens. They're not machines, and the other team does get to make plays as well.

 

 

You might recall everyone raving about our acquisitions this off season. And they made sense, if they could have been used as originally intended--Boley and Canty never had a preseason. That killed Canty. Bernard stinks, but he wasn't intended to play as many downs as he has this season, either. The real rotation was supposed to be Robbins, Cofield, Canty and Alford; with Bernard coming in on passing downs. I said earlier in the season our DTs weren't getting enough of a rotation because of Canty and Alford being out as much as they have been. If they had, maybe Cofield would have gotten better sooner and Robbins would have stood a real chance of coming back.

 

Brown was signed as a backup. If he wasn't starting, he might have been barely adequate for a game or two. Barely. All right, who am I kidding? Reese screwed the pooch on that one...

 

Wilkinson is gone. Kehl is useless, as is Clark. Blackburn is a backup. I doubt we'll see Pierce next year, and DeOssie is a long snapper and that's about it. If Sintim doesn't pan out, and Goff doesn't show signs of improvement over the next couple of weeks, that squad is fucked beyond a single season of upgrades.

 

Safety depends on if Phillips comes back. God knows what the deal is with Ross.

 

I'd be shocked if Sheridan is DC beyond January. Coughlin is already making the same sounds he did before Hufnagel went.

 

Beatty is a starter next year. It's just a matter of where.

 

 

 

This is his second full season. He played occasionally in 2007, when Gibril was leading things. Last year he was second fiddle to Butler. If Phillips was still playing, Johnson would be getting directions from him. Besides, this his second coordinator already. He's a decent player, and a great 7th round pick. But he's not up to this.

 

 

We're better than the Redskins. That team is a mess from top to bottom. Snyder is already shopping for a shiny new head coach. Their improvement is that they aren't losing as ugly as earlier in the season.

 

If we lose this week, there is no argument, is there? In reality, there isn't much of one now--we both know the defense is fucked right now, just we're disagreeing on scope; I hope we win, and you don't. That's about it, right?

 

I think we lost two players to IR that were going to have outstanding seasons. Alford was showing signs of going to another level in preseason, and Phillips was kicking ass and taking names in the few games he did play. Tuck having his shoulder fucked up didn't help much, either.

 

My point with the Bills and Lions is that they're the two longest playoff droughts...they each havent been in 10 years...those fans would take an 8-8 season if that got them in the playoffs...all I'm saying is that I have the patience to really not care if this team and all its many flaws make the playoffs. It's one year and we're clearly not up to par with the rest of the competition level. I really don't think an argument can be made that we are...

 

I think Cards fans would be happier with Fitz, given the chance of making the playoffs in 03 or never getting Fitz and never making the Super Bowl. Just my opinion, but I think they'd rather have the dude that helped improve them to the caliber team that can make a Super Bowl...the draft pick surely helped...every team has to rebuild...

 

Ball protection is a big part of being quarterback (and RB---Jacobs is quickly developing a case of fumblitis), and 4 turnovers lost us the game. That's inexcusable. It happens once, you go out and make sure you don't let it happen again. I will also criticize his receivers for the Eagles game, too, because even though they all had pretty solid games, they consistently drop passes (even TD passes) and in the case of Manningham, run themselves out of position to make a play on the ball.

 

I WOULD like to take out the Skins, but I don't mind dropping a game to Carolina (who, with a quarterback, would be a LOT better) or Minnesota (whose backups could beat us, anyway).

[Storm]

Game changing defensive players we've drafted since LT:

 

 

Leonard Marshall

Carl Banks

Pepper Johnson

Keith Hamilton

Michael Strahan

Jesse Armstead (people forget how great he was)

Osi Umenyiora (he's not all the way back yet, but even still he's forced 4 fumbles this year and has an outside chance to have his 3rd double digit sack season)

Justin Tuck

Corey Webster (in the conversation of best CB in the NFL)

Kenny Phillips (when healthy he is a game changer)

 

 

There are some players that need not be given up on yet. Kehl is one of them. He is only in his second season this year. He is our second best linebacker in terms of pass coverage next to Boley.

 

Sintim... this guy is highly thought of, can probably start next year at the strong side, and I would imagine will really help Osi out in run defense. He's only a rookie!

 

Terrell Thomas does not get enough credit for what he's done in only his second year. He is a very good CB and has a chance to be a GREAT CB with some continued development.

 

Chris Canty... still think this guy's a stud and he will prove that before his Giants tenure is over.

 

Barry Cofield is one of the most underappreciated guys we've had in recent memory.

 

This defense has a lot of talent on it... emerging talent that just needs some time to work together and some health. Our biggest problem is inexperience in the linebacking corps and being so thin at safety.

 

But our front 4 has yet to hit their stride together because of all the injuries. They still have a chance to do just that and when they do, they can take over a game.

 

I don't get all the Corey Webster praise. Do you see how bad he's been playing? Corey Webster of 07 and 08 might have been in contention for best CB in the NFL but at this point in our secondary, he's just another body back there. He looks just as lost as Bruce Johnson or CC Brown. And none of your game changers have done jack this year when it matters...like say when we're up 3 points against Philly and desperately need a big play. We need a vocal, defensive leader, who isn't talentless(like AP) and can make big plays.

 

I agree with Terrell Thomas, and, in my opinion, he's the best cornerback we have at the moment (yet we still line Bruce Johnson up against Roy WIlliams, lol).

[fishgutmartyr]

My point with the Bills and Lions is that they're the two longest playoff droughts...they each havent been in 10 years...those fans would take an 8-8 season if that got them in the playoffs...all I'm saying is that I have the patience to really not care if this team and all its many flaws make the playoffs. It's one year and we're clearly not up to par with the rest of the competition level. I really don't think an argument can be made that we are...

 

And all I'm saying is that we can and have had that same kind of drought. Anything can happen going from season to season, so you have to hope to get in from where we are now. This isn't the same as the '03 season, where we were out of contention early.

I think Cards fans would be happier with Fitz, given the chance of making the playoffs in 03 or never getting Fitz and never making the Super Bowl. Just my opinion, but I think they'd rather have the dude that helped improve them to the caliber team that can make a Super Bowl...the draft pick surely helped...every team has to rebuild...

 

They already had Boldin, so they weren't that bad off at WR. If I remember correctly, their problem was the oline back then; and trying to work in a pretty poor QB. Warner is a good QB, but if that line isn't there, he's going to hurt you--remember?

 

Ball protection is a big part of being quarterback (and RB---Jacobs is quickly developing a case of fumblitis), and 4 turnovers lost us the game. That's inexcusable. It happens once, you go out and make sure you don't let it happen again. I will also criticize his receivers for the Eagles game, too, because even though they all had pretty solid games, they consistently drop passes (even TD passes) and in the case of Manningham, run themselves out of position to make a play on the ball.

 

That botched slide was embarrassing. But most of Eli's fumbles were from getting hit from behind.

 

I looked it up. We both have a legit argument here. He's actually fumbled less this year than last with the same amount of games under his belt; on the other hand, both fumbles happened in the last two games. See what I mean? I will say that the fumble in the Eagle game was due to a good, solid defensive hit on the ball.

 

 

I WOULD like to take out the Skins, but I don't mind dropping a game to Carolina (who, with a quarterback, would be a LOT better) or Minnesota (whose backups could beat us, anyway).

Considering what they did to us in '05, I enjoy every loss we can give to the Panthers. I'm spiteful that way.

[ksm7]

I definitely was. We matched up well against those teams. Brett Favre can never avoid a relentless pass rush and his receivers eerily mirrored the group we have on the field this year...young and inexperienced. Ryan Grant was just stepping in as their full time back and their current defensive stars were either rookies or second year players. Not to mention, with play from the great Michael Strahan we were able to dominate in the run game as well, too. It was no secret that other than Favre, the Pack was a very young and inexperienced team. And we should have won that game like 4 different times or something.

 

Tampa was 9-7 and was only in the playoffs because the rest of their division sucked. You realize Earnest Graham was their running back? Receivers- Ike Hilliard, Michael Clayton, Joey Galloway. If you didn't think we matched up well (which were my exact words) then you're nuts.

 

the dog isn't going to take the time to argue the merits of the 2007 bucs, although the dog does recall that graham did rush for nearly 1000 yards while splitting time with two other backs (pittman and williams) and had a 4 yard a carry average and 10 tds...

 

the point is, that giant team had no business going to the super bowl when evaluating them in December, and yet they did. why you would choose not to be in the playoffs is beyond the dog. again, look at last years cards team...the 05 steelers...all teams that made their way in as long shot wildcards that went through sketchy seasons...all teams that ended up in the super bowl. again, the dog agrees that the giants aren't a good football team at this point, but get in, and you are 3 games away from playing in the super bowl, and if you haven't learned anything, the nfl is unpredictable and wide open...the dog sees you as the type that if the giants were to make another unlikely run, you will be here in two years talking about how confident you were about this team.

[fishgutmartyr]

Game changing defensive players we've drafted since LT:

 

 

Leonard Marshall

Carl Banks

....

Justin Tuck

Corey Webster (in the conversation of best CB in the NFL)

Kenny Phillips (when healthy he is a game changer)

 

Jim, I think Storm was talking about 1st rounders; so while I agree with just about all the names you mentioned, I'm not sure if they were all on point. Although so long as we draft them, where we get them doesn't matter much.

 

 

There are some players that need not be given up on yet. Kehl is one of them. He is only in his second season this year. He is our second best linebacker in terms of pass coverage next to Boley.

 

Sintim... this guy is highly thought of, can probably start next year at the strong side, and I would imagine will really help Osi out in run defense. He's only a rookie!

 

Terrell Thomas does not get enough credit for what he's done in only his second year. He is a very good CB and has a chance to be a GREAT CB with some continued development.

 

Chris Canty... still think this guy's a stud and he will prove that before his Giants tenure is over.

 

Barry Cofield is one of the most underappreciated guys we've had in recent memory.

 

This defense has a lot of talent on it... emerging talent that just needs some time to work together and some health. Our biggest problem is inexperience in the linebacking corps and being so thin at safety.

 

But our front 4 has yet to hit their stride together because of all the injuries. They still have a chance to do just that and when they do, they can take over a game.

I hope you're right about Kehl, but I honestly don't see it. Having Blackburn, who is slow as hell, starting before him is pretty damning.

 

Love Terrell Thomas. I thought he was a starter whether Ross was in or not.

 

I agree with both your assessments of Cofield and Canty. I don't know if at this point our defensive line is going to hit their stride this season, however. Canty has A LOT to overcome this season, both in terms of recovering from those injuries, and learning his responsibilities in a 4-3. It may be too late.

[Storm]

the dog isn't going to take the time to argue the merits of the 2007 bucs, although the dog does recall that graham did rush for nearly 1000 yards while splitting time with two other backs (pittman and williams) and had a 4 yard a carry average and 10 tds...

 

the point is, that giant team had no business going to the super bowl when evaluating them in December, and yet they did. why you would choose not to be in the playoffs is beyond the dog. again, look at last years cards team...the 05 steelers...all teams that made their way in as long shot wildcards that went through sketchy seasons...all teams that ended up in the super bowl. again, the dog agrees that the giants aren't a good football team at this point, but get in, and you are 3 games away from playing in the super bowl, and if you haven't learned anything, the nfl is unpredictable and wide open...the dog sees you as the type that if the giants were to make another unlikely run, you will be here in two years talking about how confident you were about this team.

 

NOPE, NOPE. You're memory is flawed then, Caddy was IRed that season.

 

And no, I wouldn't do that, because there's evidence I clearly have no confidence in this team.

 

I wish I could go back and find the threads I talked about how we matched up well against those playoff teams.

[ksm7]

NOPE, NOPE. You're memory is flawed then, Caddy was IRed that season.

 

And no, I wouldn't do that, because there's evidence I clearly have no confidence in this team.

 

I wish I could go back and find the threads I talked about how we matched up well against those playoff teams.

 

williams played 4 games and ran for 200 yards...take those games and carries from graham, and it is the reason he didn't break 1000 yards that season...not to mention the pittman yards (nearly 300)...regardless, the dog's confusion still stands. you say you are an adament fan of the team, at least in the past, yet you would prefer to be out of the playoffs instead of having an opportunity to be in and make things happen. bizzarre...everything else about this thread is secondary. get in and see what happens. stay home and watch other teams play. those are your options. you choose to watch other teams compete for the super bowl...strange.

[Storm]

williams played 4 games and ran for 200 yards...take those games and carries from graham, and it is the reason he didn't break 1000 yards that season...not to mention the pittman yards (nearly 300)...regardless, the dog's confusion still stands. you say you are an adament fan of the team, at least in the past, yet you would prefer to be out of the playoffs instead of having an opportunity to be in and make things happen. bizzarre...everything else about this thread is secondary. get in and see what happens. stay home and watch other teams play. those are your options. you choose to watch other teams compete for the super bowl...strange.

 

Stay home, watch other teams who *deserve* to play. We don't. And pick up a top 15 draft pick along they way.

 

The other option, is, get in, lose in the first round by 20+ and end up watching other teams play anyway. And secure the 26th draft pick.

[Nas]

Stay home, watch other teams who *deserve* to play. We don't. And pick up a top 15 draft pick along they way.

 

The other option, is, get in, lose in the first round by 20+ and end up watching other teams play anyway. And secure the 26th draft pick.

 

Just what makes you think those teams are all better than us? I don't get it... even the Saints have major flaws... Washington gave them the game... Arizona? Didn't we give them the game too? Well we're in the playoffs for a little payback.... beat Arizona, beat Philly, beat the saints... and beat the Chargers... all paybacks.

[Storm]

Just what makes you think those teams are all better than us? I don't get it... even the Saints have major flaws... Washington gave them the game... Arizona? Didn't we give them the game too? Well we're in the playoffs for a little payback.... beat Arizona, beat Philly, beat the saints... and beat the Chargers... all paybacks.

 

Those teams overcome mistakes to win games. I've been saying this...We just make more mistakes and dig ourselves deeper....or fail to actually step up when we're winning....

[Nas]

Those teams overcome mistakes to win games. I've been saying this...We just make more mistakes and dig ourselves deeper....or fail to actually step up when we're winning....

 

Yes but it's not over... that's the sign of a real team... a team that tries to dig itself out.. even if it suffers a few losses in the process... maybe the 2nd half of Descember is our time... we wake up and steam-roll our way in... we're in this for the ride, Storm... and the ride doesn't stop till your team is sittin home... then u get to watch other teams.. who would you rather watch?

[Storm]

Yes but it's not over... that's the sign of a real team... a team that tries to dig itself out.. even if it suffers a few losses in the process... maybe the 2nd half of Descember is our time... we wake up and steam-roll our way in... we're in this for the ride, Storm... and the ride doesn't stop till your team is sittin home... then u get to watch other teams.. who would you rather watch?

 

2 wins in 8 games is digging itself out...? Face it, if we hadn't faced and dominated piece-meal teams early in the season, we'd be lucky to have a better record than the Redskins at this point.

[fringe]

no, they won't.

[JMFP]

We lost to Philly twice, and they lost to Oakland. Anything is possible, that's all I'm saying.

 

If NO plays like they did against the Redskins, Dallas will beat them.

 

I certainly hope not, because if Dallas beats NO, it puts a huge monkeywrench in the Giants drive to the Super Bowl.

 

Sometimes I wish I wasn't right.

[Iceman_NYG]

You seriously think a team that we beat twice will beat a team that smoked us by 20 points? New Orleans is too fast for Dallas on offense. They are too deep at WR. They have a similar tailback situation as we did in 07, with 3 highly capable backs splitting time.

 

Two weeks ago all I heard was Dallas always falls apart in December...now it's Dallas is going to take out New Orleans. Lol.

 

Dallas did beat the Saints - and I knew they will.

 

Irrespective of that Storm, if we do win out and if we make the playoffs, rest assured - we didnt do it because of good fortune or because the officials sucked Giant dick. Its because we won the games that we did and that automatically means we DESERVE to be in the playoffs. Infact, I dont get whether this whole 'we dont DESERVE' to be in the playoffs nonsense comes from. You are in the playoffs only if we win a certain number of games and if we do that we are in - thats it. Period. Just because a Titans team or a Redskins team sucked balls all season and suddenly went on a hot run towards the end of the season that they DESERVE to be in the playoffs more than we do. Fact in, in an entire season - we won more games than they did and thats why we are there. How we are playing as of now is not relevant. I agree this Giants team might not be as good as the one that was in the playoffs the last couple of years, but that doesnt mean we DONT deserve to be in the playoffs or other bullcrap along those lines. Maybe other teams in the playoffs are better than us. But if we do get to the playoffs, then its because we belonged there.

 

And losing in the first round - if it happens then so be it. Some teams have to lose in the first round, 12 teams dont play the Superbowl. If we lose we lose, but there is no reason for us sit around and wish that we lose etc for a higher draft pick. And regarding that, a higher draftpick will command a lot more money as compared to someone who will come middle/late first round and who will perform equally well.

[Storm]

Dallas did beat the Saints - and I knew they will.

 

Irrespective of that Storm, if we do win out and if we make the playoffs, rest assured - we didnt do it because of good fortune or because the officials sucked Giant dick. Its because we won the games that we did and that automatically means we DESERVE to be in the playoffs. Infact, I dont get whether this whole 'we dont DESERVE' to be in the playoffs nonsense comes from. You are in the playoffs only if we win a certain number of games and if we do that we are in - thats it. Period. Just because a Titans team or a Redskins team sucked balls all season and suddenly went on a hot run towards the end of the season that they DESERVE to be in the playoffs more than we do. Fact in, in an entire season - we won more games than they did and thats why we are there. How we are playing as of now is not relevant. I agree this Giants team might not be as good as the one that was in the playoffs the last couple of years, but that doesnt mean we DONT deserve to be in the playoffs or other bullcrap along those lines. Maybe other teams in the playoffs are better than us. But if we do get to the playoffs, then its because we belonged there.

 

And losing in the first round - if it happens then so be it. Some teams have to lose in the first round, 12 teams dont play the Superbowl. If we lose we lose, but there is no reason for us sit around and wish that we lose etc for a higher draft pick. And regarding that, a higher draftpick will command a lot more money as compared to someone who will come middle/late first round and who will perform equally well.

 

My point: the teams that are current playoff contenders are better than we are. The way this team faces adversity---they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

 

Second, I didn't realize you paid the players. I sure hope we don't go out and grab any free agents to replace all the guys that are gonna be outsie....you might go broke.

[JMFP]

My point: the teams that are current playoff contenders are better than we are. The way this team faces adversity---they don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

 

They've got 3 games left....the Cowboys (who we swept, btw) have 2 more, and so do the Packers (who lost to the Steelers, who themselves lost 5 straight).

 

My point is this - let's see how the season plays out. If the Giants go 3-0, and either the Cowboys or the Packers go 2-1, the Giants are in at 10-6.

 

If anything, this past weekend supports my belief that the 2009 playoff field is wide open. New Orleans sure looked vulnerable, Green Bay got torched on defense, and the Vikings got bitchslapped by a mediocre Panthers team.

 

I'm going to reserve my own opinion on this Giants team until after they clear out their lockers.

[Iceman_NYG]

They've got 3 games left....the Cowboys (who we swept, btw) have 2 more, and so do the Packers (who lost to the Steelers, who themselves lost 5 straight).

 

My point is this - let's see how the season plays out. If the Giants go 3-0, and either the Cowboys or the Packers go 2-1, the Giants are in at 10-6.

 

If anything, this past weekend supports my belief that the 2009 playoff field is wide open. New Orleans sure looked vulnerable, Green Bay got torched on defense, and the Vikings got bitchslapped by a mediocre Panthers team.

 

I'm going to reserve my own opinion on this Giants team until after they clear out their lockers.

 

Exactly. I see what Storm is trying to say. Its better that this team doesnt unnecessarily show some kind of a flame and then extinguish itself in a bad way in the playoffs - which is more than likely the case. 'Storms perspective' (please correct me if Im wrong) - "Id rather not have this team show me some false hope, reach the playoffs and then get raped. Because they havent shown any kind of balls that warrants a kickass, FUCKIT!IM WINNING THIS! type of a game where the entire team rallied and punched another team in the face to be able to get a hard fought win!". Hence he believes we dont 'belong' in the playoffs.

 

Storm - I wont agree with the choice of words. The Giants, if they do get in, well and good. But come on man - this team might not have the heart of a champion - but theyve atleast shown some heart the last couple weeks. We didnt get the breaks and the opponents did. I believe in that heart - if the mistakes get curbed - this team is no less competitive than anyone in the NFC - very evident from what happened this week with the Saints and Vikings.