BigPete Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Who do you replace ELi with ??? How about 1. resign David Carr Carr does have ability and is well established in the offense. I don't think the drop off would be as huge as some would believe. With a good offensive line and ground game, he can get the job done, particularly when you consider that he will have plenty of talented young targets to throw to. Instead of Eli's contact (maybe $120m/6 years with $50m guaranteed), maybe Car could be something like a 4 year $20m deal with $6m guaranteed I don't think the drop off would be that much; imho Carr makes the offense look sharper in the limited opportunities he has had so far. His accuracy and arm strength in particular are better than Eli's. 2. draft a QB to develop behind Carr for the future Perhaps a top prospect like Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow or Colt McCoy or a 2nd tier guy like Tim Hiller or Dan LeFevour Depending on preference, there will be decent talent available 3. If Rhett Bomar/Andre Woodson are not ready to backup, bring in a solid free agent I am not saying that Eli isn't good for the giants, I am just not happy with mortguaging the Giants future if he doesn't take his play to the next level. If Eli takes his play to the next level then by all means pay him, but I want to see that on the field before he cashes in (unless he reduces his demands) otherwise he doesn't seem worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 How about 1. resign David Carr Carr does have ability and is well established in the offense. I don't think the drop off would be as huge as some would believe. With a good offensive line and ground game, he can get the job done, particularly when you consider that he will have plenty of talented young targets to throw to. Instead of Eli's contact (maybe $120m/6 years with $50m guaranteed), maybe Car could be something like a 4 year $20m deal with $6m guaranteed I don't think the drop off would be that much; imho Carr makes the offense look sharper in the limited opportunities he has had so far. His accuracy and arm strength in particular are better than Eli's. 2. draft a QB to develop behind Carr for the future Perhaps a top prospect like Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow or Colt McCoy or a 2nd tier guy like Tim Hiller or Dan LeFevour Depending on preference, there will be decent talent available 3. If Rhett Bomar/Andre Woodson are not ready to backup, bring in a solid free agent I am not saying that Eli isn't good for the giants, I am just not happy with mortguaging the Giants future if he doesn't take his play to the next level. If Eli takes his play to the next level then by all means pay him, but I want to see that on the field before he cashes in (unless he reduces his demands) otherwise he doesn't seem worth it. Hi Pete How goes it these days? Hope all is great. I totally understand where your comin from but one thing that is extremely important that you didnt mention is playing under pressure and winning. Carr is untested as all the other QB's you listed or probably will list in the future. Eli has that part of the game. When the big game is on the line stats dont matter, crisp passes and tight spirals dont matter. Look at Romo great QB right? But for all his skills he cant seem to put it in the endzone when the game is on the line and thats everything. Eli has that and I am not saying that he is worth every penny of what there asking I too beleive its alot of dough but it would be a huge mistake in my opinion to let this QB play for any other team but the NY Giants. We have this year to see if Eli continues to improve. 4 straight playoffs 1 superbowl not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I like Eli but not at $20mil per year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman329 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 He's NOT going to get $20M per.....and the Giants are NOT going to play hard ball/low ball with him and they are certainly NOT going to let him walk. This is just the first step of the agent/GM dance. Look for him to cash in around the 12-14 per year range. And if worst case scenario - he has a dreadful year - both sides will agree to a one year deal and see where we are this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I like Eli but not at $20mil per year Eli's not getting $20M. you gotta start high right!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 How, Blu? What does he have to do to prove it that he hasn't done already? Increase his completion percentage? He can do that easily enough by not throwing the ball away, ala Warner. But the fact is, he already has a higher career completion percentage (55.9%) than Simms (55.4%), and towers above Phil's first 6 years (52.7%--I used 6 years because I wanted to adjust for his injuries and the lost '83 season--and '84 was a decent year for Phil). Collins is the only QB with a better percentage as a Giant (58.4), but he isn't close in td/int ratio (81/70) or wins/losses (35-33-0). Increase his accuracy? I have a feeling that's coming with time (you can already start to see it), and our receiving core's willingness to actually work with him. His td/int ratio is in the positive (98/74). But most importantly, his career w/l is 42-29-0. the dog means no disrespect to phil simms, but why would he be the measuring stick as far as a discussion involving the possibility of being awarded a contract that would place manning as one of the highest paid QBs ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Is Eli worth 20 million a year? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPete Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 He's NOT going to get $20M per.....and the Giants are NOT going to play hard ball/low ball with him and they are certainly NOT going to let him walk. This is just the first step of the agent/GM dance. Look for him to cash in around the 12-14 per year range. And if worst case scenario - he has a dreadful year - both sides will agree to a one year deal and see where we are this time next year. I think you are wrong, look at Peyton, he has always has gone for premium deals as has Eli is his discussions so far in his career. Eli has already been paid in the $12m-$14m/year. Have no doubt, he wants his money and will almost certainly get it. I hope Eli is just coming into his prime and that with Plaxico gone and Shockey gone he will become more of a leader by his play on the field. I think this season is a great opportunity for Eli, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a breakout season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 the dog means no disrespect to phil simms, but why would he be the measuring stick as far as a discussion involving the possibility of being awarded a contract that would place manning as one of the highest paid QBs ever? I'm thinking in terms of effectiveness and position in the course of a career, nothing else. Highest paid QB ever is such a transient status. Putting aside the assumption that he's definitely getting what his agent is asking (and he won't); how long do you think that will last after a guy like Rivers or Cutler comes off his rookie contract? We've already paid $12 million for him the last two years; he's not going to play at a discount. You can't use contracts as a benchmark for a players rank in the NFL anymore--he's going to get more than his brother not because he's better than Peyton, but because Peyton has been signed for years, when the market was lower. Just like Peyton's contract doesn't seem that bad now, Eli's cost isn't going to seem that big a hit 5 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Fish speaks the troof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'm thinking in terms of effectiveness and position in the course of a career, nothing else. Highest paid QB ever is such a transient status. Putting aside the assumption that he's definitely getting what his agent is asking (and he won't); how long do you think that will last after a guy like Rivers or Cutler comes off his rookie contract? We've already paid $12 million for him the last two years; he's not going to play at a discount. You can't use contracts as a benchmark for a players rank in the NFL anymore--he's going to get more than his brother not because he's better than Peyton, but because Peyton has been signed for years, when the market was lower. Just like Peyton's contract doesn't seem that bad now, Eli's cost isn't going to seem that big a hit 5 years down the road. no question about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 A Little context. Julius Peppers just signed a franchise tender of $16.7 million to play this season. So, really, how out of whack is $20 million for a QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Eli's not getting $20M. you gotta start high right!! yeah, I can't blame them for trying...they'll get him signed....and god help the Giants if he wins an MVP this year or something....I can hear the ticket prices go up as I write this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 i kinda don't agree with this.. you know how hard it is to find a QB? teams such as Raiders, Minny , SF to name a few has spend millions on top of millions looking for their QB. Having Carr replace Eli to save a few(million) bucks is just insane. This entire team is build around Eli and his mellow personality and to replace him is like rebuilding again. You're right that he doesn't perform like a top QB especially during windy games. But you can't say he's the worst QB we ever had. Record breaking payout? No, but near the air up there, yeh.. I disagree with this notion. The teams is the sum of its parts. Take out Eli and insert Carr... who knows Carr may very well out play Eli. I will argue that it's hard to compare QBs if they're on different teams and therefore different talents. Don't take me wrong I like Eli but by the same token, there's a salary cap we have to be mindful of and Eli is a middle of the pack QB who "should" command a middle of the pack contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 His agent is looking at $20 million. I'm sure there's wiggle-room, and the price probably won't be that out of whack with the going price for starting QBs. It took how long to replace Simms? You guys really want to replace a superbowl MVP and pro-bowler from last season with David Carr, who could be one multi-sack game from going back to bad habits? No but what difference does it make if one player's contract paralyzes the team from signing talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I disagree with this notion. The teams is the sum of its parts. Take out Eli and insert Carr... who knows Carr may very well out play Eli. I will argue that it's hard to compare QBs if they're on different teams and therefore different talents. Don't take me wrong I like Eli but by the same token, there's a salary cap we have to be mindful of and Eli is a middle of the pack QB who "should" command a middle of the pack contract. when does the salary cap end? I know the CBA is up in the next year or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 when does the salary cap end? I know the CBA is up in the next year or two It won't end. Salary cap means owners get to put more money in their pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 No but what difference does it make if one player's contract paralyzes the team from signing talent? $20 million a year won't do that now--you're thinking caps from 5 years ago. Besides, other than 2005, when did we really go apeshit in freeagency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 It won't end. Salary cap means owners get to put more money in their pockets. well the money has to go somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 $20 million a year won't do that now--you're thinking caps from 5 years ago. Besides, other than 2005, when did we really go apeshit in freeagency? Do you believe Eli is an Elite QB? Do you think he's worthy of the largest contract in the league right now? I think those the questions asked and based how you answer them... well that's a $20M a year question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Do you believe Eli is an Elite QB? Do you think he's worthy of the largest contract in the league right now? I think those the questions asked and based how you answer them... well that's a $20M a year question. First, I doubt he gets 20 million a year. Second, if he did, I doubt that he'll have the largest contract in the league for long. Watch what happens if the NFL gets a capless year. Finally, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it doesn't matter if he's elite. It's what the market will bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Do you believe Eli is an Elite QB? Do you think he's worthy of the largest contract in the league right now? I think those the questions asked and based how you answer them... well that's a $20M a year question. Elite? no....servicable yes....he has gotten better each year, and I expect him to get even better this year...not sure if $20mil worth though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Elite? no....servicable yes....he has gotten better each year, and I expect him to get even better this year...not sure if $20mil worth though And he doesn't come from an impoverished background either so I doubt he'll let money get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppodlesny Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 And he doesn't come from an impoverished background either so I doubt he'll let money get in the way. depends on the agent, not so much the player....I think he is confident the deal will get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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