Nesta Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 no offense, but steve politi is the epitomy of newspaper sports journalist that ride the waves of the game results each week...the dog would encourage you to read more of his fine work...most likely you will find him praising gilbride as the second coming of christ in an article somewhere over the course of the year...have to do better than that... Perfect. Sounds like he's objective then, and reserves his praise or criticism for a game by game basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Perfect. Sounds like he's objective then, and reserves his praise or criticism for a game by game basis. perfect if you want to cast judgement on a player or coach's ability to do the job based on each week's performance relative to the whole picture (or in this case, based on situational playcalling)...the dog would disagree, in that if we judged a player each week, than Manning would have been pushed out long ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 The dog should say nothing about a team, on that teams board, when the dog has ZERO balls (except for the ones in his mouth) to say who his team is. :glare: Joke.......not even remotely funny. Every now and than, in the early months of the preseason, I must momentarily step away from my message board vacation to adress an important issue. BIGBLUE: Perhaps the Dog has not revealed his team because he is waiting until the 4th quarter of a likely Superbowl victory until he CEMENTS himself as a "true" fan. Isn't that your philosophy -- no sense in CEMENTING yourself as a fan until your team actually wins something, right? Just keeping it real, Bigblue. :yahoo: Enjoy the rest of your offseason Giants fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 perfect if you want to cast judgement on a player or coach's ability to do the job based on each week's performance relative to the whole picture (or in this case, based on situational playcalling)...the dog would disagree, in that if we judged a player each week, than Manning would have been pushed out long ago... Do you listen to yourself? That's exactly what you want. You want an unbiased review of each game, with nothing carrying over from last week, good or bad. He didn't say Gilbride was a schmuck, he's discussing ONE GAME. Besides, you already stated he's climbed far up Gilbride's ass, so if there were any bias, it'd be in KG's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 perfect if you want to cast judgement on a player or coach's ability to do the job based on each week's performance relative to the whole picture (or in this case, based on situational playcalling)...the dog would disagree, in that if we judged a player each week, than Manning would have been pushed out long ago... OK, then we can judge him on the fact that we were defending champions and then lost a home playoff in our first playoff game. What exactly is your argument? His body of work in the regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Do you listen to yourself? That's exactly what you want. You want an unbiased review of each game, with nothing carrying over from last week, good or bad. He didn't say Gilbride was a schmuck, he's discussing ONE GAME. Besides, you already stated he's climbed far up Gilbride's ass, so if there were any bias, it'd be in KG's favor. read nesta...read. countless threads complaining that gilbride is the OC. why? the dog is saying giant fans should be more than pleased at what the giants offense has produced with him. you wanted to pull an article from a sports journalist who gets paid to stir the pot and ride the weekly waves...fine. the dog is saying don't use that to demonstrate gilbride's status as a good OC. look at the whole picture (besides which the dog doesn't have an issue with the gilbride b/c they lost to the eagles in the playoffs - that is not on him)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 OK, then we can judge him on the fact that we were defending champions and then lost a home playoff in our first playoff game. What exactly is your argument? His body of work in the regular season? the dog is arguing that you should be thankful you have an OC that has fielded offenses that produce in recent years. you want to critique is "situational" playcalling. so be it. it still comes down to execution on the field. and as the dog has said, situational playcalling is based on a 100 different things that you sitting in the recliner at home are not privy to. mike shanahan makes a decision against all conventional wisdom and goes for 2 in the waning seconds at home against a division rival for the win, when he should have kicked for the tie. the offense executes the play to perfection and they win. people are applauding how gutsy he is and what an amazing call it was. that receiver drops the ball...cutler gets a case of the mannings and misfires in the gentle colorado breeze...a charger makes a play and deflects the pass, and everyone is calling shanahan a moran for making that call...situational playcalling goes far beyond what you know, even as a knowledgable fan of the game...that's the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 the dog is arguing that you should be thankful you have an OC that has fielded offenses that produce in recent years. you want to critique is "situational" playcalling. so be it. it still comes down to execution on the field. and as the dog has said, situational playcalling is based on a 100 different things that you sitting in the recliner at home are not privy to. mike shanahan makes a decision against all conventional wisdom and goes for 2 in the waning seconds at home against a division rival for the win, when he should have kicked for the tie. the offense executes the play to perfection and they win. people are applauding how gutsy he is and what an amazing call it was. that receiver drops the ball...cutler gets a case of the mannings and misfires in the gentle colorado breeze...a charger makes a play and deflects the pass, and everyone is calling shanahan a moran for making that call...situational playcalling goes far beyond what you know, even as a knowledgable fan of the game...that's the argument. completely retarded call that should never ever be made, he should have been fired for the sole fact that he's an idiot for making that call...and it really has no bearing on the fact that Gilbride will stray from the run when it's working, gets pass happy, makes idiotic calls on 3rd down(such as handing the ball to Madison Hedgecock on 3rd and 1 instead of Brandon Jacobs...or throwing the ball 40 yards down the field on 3rd and 1)....he simply sends in some stupid plays in the wrong situation and it often sets the tone for the rest of the game. Our redzone offense always sucks because the Giants are very predictable in the red zone(the last couple years have been run, run, fade route pass to either Burress or before that Shockey). That's another problem I have with his playcalling and the Giants playcallers in general from the past couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 completely retarded call that should never ever be made, he should have been fired for the sole fact that he's an idiot for making that call...and it really has no bearing on the fact that Gilbride will stray from the run when it's working, gets pass happy, makes idiotic calls on 3rd down(such as handing the ball to Madison Hedgecock on 3rd and 1 instead of Brandon Jacobs...or throwing the ball 40 yards down the field on 3rd and 1)....he simply sends in some stupid plays in the wrong situation and it often sets the tone for the rest of the game. Our redzone offense always sucks because the Giants are very predictable in the red zone(the last couple years have been run, run, fade route pass to either Burress or before that Shockey). That's another problem I have with his playcalling and the Giants playcallers in general from the past couple years. but the dog thought brandon jacobs was an unstoppable force, particularly in the redzone (perhaps nesta can shed some light)? and didn't manning make a living off of lobbing high passes to burress in the corner of the endzone? didn't bother anyone in the super bowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 read nesta...read. countless threads complaining that gilbride is the OC. why? the dog is saying giant fans should be more than pleased at what the giants offense has produced with him. you wanted to pull an article from a sports journalist who gets paid to stir the pot and ride the weekly waves...fine. the dog is saying don't use that to demonstrate gilbride's status as a good OC. look at the whole picture (besides which the dog doesn't have an issue with the gilbride b/c they lost to the eagles in the playoffs - that is not on him)... Let's not get carried away with our own bullshit doggy. It's not countless, it's a few. A few is about right considering the slump our offense was in for 4 out of the last 5 games, and the bad taste the playoff loss left in everyone's mouth. And let's not try and sell the 'giants fans should this... or giants fans should that'. You're a closet fan, keep your opinions in the closet with your team. Fact is, most are pleased with our offensive production and displeased with how last season ended at the, get this........, SAME TIME!!!!!!! Wow is that possible? Did you ever imagine? Ask how many people here want him fired and tell me if it's countless. I posted the article for two reasons. One, a couple of people have suggested that only the members here would place any blame for Gil in the Philly game (disproven by the article), and two, it pertains to the Philly game, which are what most of the Gilbride complaints are about. No other motives there. If the dog would care to read as well, he'd find that I do think KG is a good OC, that doesn't mean I won't complain when he calls a bad game. And doggy, whether you want to buy it or not, the Philly game was poorly called and executed. The dog should heed his own advice. Look at the whole picture. You're on a Giants fan forum. We are bound to discuss every aspect of the last game of the year, and disagree on it to a great extent, as we are Giants fans. We've watched every game of the year and each of us has a unique insight of this team, except the dog. We don't even know, nor suspect, that the dog watched the game in question here. The dog should leave the Giants talk to the fans, as so often in the past, little doggy has been dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 but the dog thought brandon jacobs was an unstoppable force, particularly in the redzone (perhaps nesta can shed some light)? and didn't manning make a living off of lobbing high passes to burress in the corner of the endzone? didn't bother anyone in the super bowl... The redzone is from within the 20. To make it in two runs, he'd have to average 10 yards a carry. And teams defended that pass twice as many times as it worked...or Manning overthrew Burress on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgutmartyr Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Our redzone offense always sucks because the Giants are very predictable in the red zone(the last couple years have been run, run, fade route pass to either Burress or before that Shockey). That's another problem I have with his playcalling and the Giants playcallers in general from the past couple years. We've made a living on the fade for years--long before Gilbride. And it's worked. I'd say Reese agrees--otherwise we wouldn't have drafted Barden or Beckum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 We've made a living on the fade for years--long before Gilbride. And it's worked. I'd say Reese agrees--otherwise we wouldn't have drafted Barden or Beckum. Again, like I said, it's failed twice as much as it's worked...it's a 50/50 play at best(the ball has to be prit near perfect, the cornerback can still make a play, the receiver might not judge his route properly and struggle getting his feet in). Playaction works far better and it's a real shame we don't use it more in the red zone. Especially when the first two plays are normally handoffs. Like I said, the Giants are very predictable and our red zone offense has been piss poor for years. Explain that one if the fade route works so well. I can think of two times that it worked perfectly. In the Super Bowl and the famous Jeremy Shockey against Brian Dawkins play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Again, like I said, it's failed twice as much as it's worked...it's a 50/50 play at best(the ball has to be prit near perfect, the cornerback can still make a play, the receiver might not judge his route properly and struggle getting his feet in). Playaction works far better and it's a real shame we don't use it more in the red zone. Especially when the first two plays are normally handoffs. Like I said, the Giants are very predictable and our red zone offense has been piss poor for years. Explain that one if the fade route works so well. I can think of two times that it worked perfectly. In the Super Bowl and the famous Jeremy Shockey against Brian Dawkins play. I agree, i dont think the fade is a high percentage play. Its a safe play and the risk to reward is good but your right the giants for years have not had great productivity in the red/green zone. Is it execution, is it play calling? I have to believe its a little of both. The element of suprise works down there and what pisses me off is when they call something retarded like a FB run when Jacobs is mauling over people. THe Giants desperately need to execute a screen play this year. OK enough of coaches corner!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I agree, i dont think the fade is a high percentage play. Its a safe play and the risk to reward is good but your right the giants for years have not had great productivity in the red/green zone. Is it execution, is it play calling? I have to believe its a little of both. The element of suprise works down there and what pisses me off is when they call something retarded like a FB run when Jacobs is mauling over people. THe Giants desperately need to execute a screen play this year. OK enough of coaches corner!! Exactly, even if you have a 7 foot WR, it doesn't matter if the ball is overthrown even in the slightest and the guy can't catch it while keeping his feet in bounds....it has to be a pretty damn near perfect pass. It's one thing to try the fade once a game, but the Giants seem to try it once per drive in the red zone. As for the execution/play call question, I'd have to say it's both, but sometimes it's shoddy playcall...like the time we ran Jacobs 4 times in a row inside the 5...while yes, the offensive line obviously didn't get the push needed to get Jacobs in, it should be pretty obvious the first 2-3 times that it's not going to work...change it up, throw them a curve and run a sweep...or *gasp* use Manning's real bread and butter, the playaction down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Again, like I said, it's failed twice as much as it's worked...it's a 50/50 play at best(the ball has to be prit near perfect, the cornerback can still make a play, the receiver might not judge his route properly and struggle getting his feet in). Playaction works far better and it's a real shame we don't use it more in the red zone. Especially when the first two plays are normally handoffs. Like I said, the Giants are very predictable and our red zone offense has been piss poor for years. Explain that one if the fade route works so well. I can think of two times that it worked perfectly. In the Super Bowl and the famous Jeremy Shockey against Brian Dawkins play. a ton of plax's tds are on the fade route. you're right though it's a low percentage play and your 50/50 estimate is being generous. the thing is there's virtually no chance of a sack or interception and we're taking advantage of our best offensive player's biggest advantage (his height), whereas a playaction pass in the red zone is pretty complicated because there's less room to work with and it takes so long to execute the play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Count me among those who think the jumpball is really low percentage. We were far too reliant on it when we had Plax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Count me among those who think the jumpball is really low percentage. We were far too reliant on it when we had Plax. me too, mostly it's based on touch, something our QB has precious little of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 a ton of plax's tds are on the fade route. you're right though it's a low percentage play and your 50/50 estimate is being generous. the thing is there's virtually no chance of a sack or interception and we're taking advantage of our best offensive player's biggest advantage (his height), whereas a playaction pass in the red zone is pretty complicated because there's less room to work with and it takes so long to execute the play True, I just feel the playaction plays more to Manning's strengths, the person most responsible for the success of the play...because for one, if he sells it well, he's going to have at least some time to allow his targets to get open, and two if he sells it well, one of his targets will likely be open...plus if he is pressured, I feel that Manning seems to work better under pressure than when he has all day to throw it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 True, I just feel the playaction plays more to Manning's strengths, the person most responsible for the success of the play...because for one, if he sells it well, he's going to have at least some time to allow his targets to get open, and two if he sells it well, one of his targets will likely be open...plus if he is pressured, I feel that Manning seems to work better under pressure than when he has all day to throw it... yeah it's definitely soething he's good at. i just generally get nervous with play actions near the goaline cuz you relaly gotta do it fast to avoid a big loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 yeah it's definitely soething he's good at. i just generally get nervous with play actions near the goaline cuz you relaly gotta do it fast to avoid a big loss true, or a fumble if he gets blasted blind-side...lately I havent been seeing many blind side hits on Manning...atta boy Diehl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 true, or a fumble if he gets blasted blind-side...lately I havent been seeing many blind side hits on Manning...atta boy Diehl remember ELi's first game against the Eagles ouch !!!! Welcome to the NFL! Eli was plastered!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Given the way we started 2008, and how we ended, I'm blaming Gilbride for my premature ejaculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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