A list of players who are not, won't be, and may not be in the Baseball Hall of Fame

[Virginia Giant]

he was scared for his life cuz johnson threw one over his head

Yeah, but that goes into what I was saying before. He was just wild enough that players couldn't get comfortable.

 

I know what your saying about Pedro, I like the guy and think he was amazing...but maybe it's just personal preference. I like the intimidating pitchers, and Tandy was in the entire leagues head.

[Herc]

i jsut can't let the "he's so wild he might kill me" fear be a factor for whether or not someone is a good pitcher. im just going by the numbers

[fringe]

i jsut can't let the "he's so wild he might kill me" fear be a factor for whether or not someone is a good pitcher. im just going by the numbers

the latter should be a product of the former.

[Virginia Giant]

i jsut can't let the "he's so wild he might kill me" fear be a factor for whether or not someone is a good pitcher. im just going by the numbers

The stats?

 

 

Though his first 17 years (the number Pedro has pitched....

 

Randy has 259 wins to Pedro's 214. )for his career, he's 5 away from 300_

 

Randy, again through hi9s first 17 years...has over 1,000 more strike out's than Pedro. And he's 211 from being the second person ever to have 5,000

 

 

37 shut outs to 17

 

 

3,368 ip to 2,783

 

 

92 complete games to 46

 

 

 

 

And not for nothing....but Kruk struck out BADLY that at bat.

 

 

Other than era, the stats don't support your argument.

[RandolphScott]

Didn't Pedro strike out the first 4 batters of the '99 All Star game?

 

 

 

[Herc]

The stats?

 

 

Though his first 17 years (the number Pedro has pitched....

 

Randy has 259 wins to Pedro's 214. )for his career, he's 5 away from 300_

 

Randy, again through hi9s first 17 years...has over 1,000 more strike out's than Pedro. And he's 211 from being the second person ever to have 5,000

 

 

37 shut outs to 17

 

 

3,368 ip to 2,783

 

 

92 complete games to 46

 

 

 

 

And not for nothing....but Kruk struck out BADLY that at bat.

 

 

Other than era, the stats don't support your argument.

 

you're leaving out randy johnson's worst seasons and leaving pedro's in. not exactly fair.

[Virginia Giant]

you're leaving out randy johnson's worst seasons and leaving pedro's in. not exactly fair.

Not intentionally....Pedro has played 17 years, I just took Randy's first 17 years. How is that not fair? That is what each player has done through their first 17 years in the league. And actually, year 18 and 19 for Randy are pretty impressive, the only bad years not attached to those stats are 2007 and 2008... 2005 and 2006 would have added 34 wins, 383 K's, 430 ip.

[Herc]

and a 5.00 era--those were his two worst seasons.

[Virginia Giant]

and a 5.00 era--those were his two worst seasons.

Well, I had conceded that Martinez has given up fewer earned runs, but seeing as Johnson has more innings pitched and has finished more games, it's not hard to imagine that someone who stays in games longer and finishes more games will give up more runs.

 

 

 

An average season for Randy Johnson

 

14 wins

4.7 complete games

1.8 shut outs

192 ip

154.7 hits

7.6 losses

3.26 era

70 walks

228 strike outs

1.167 whip

 

 

Pedro's average season

 

12.6 wins

2.7 cg

1 shut out

163.7 ip

5.8 losses

2.91 era

44 walks

183 k

1.051 whip

 

 

Make of it what you will, looking just at the numbers you can tell one is a power pitcher and one more of a control type pitcher.

 

Bottom line, both were great in their day, both were dominant, both deserve hof inductions, but for my money, if I could have either for one game or an entire season, I take Randy largely due to the intimidation factor, and the fact he will eat up innings. I'd like to have a guy that when the playoffs start, the opposing team's batters will be thinking about Randy.

[Herc]

for me, a pitcher has two job: get outs and don't give up runs. to me era and whip are the truest ways to judge a pitcher and all other stats are secondary. i'd still take pedro over rj in their primes if i had to win a game--although rj's performance in the '01 world series is pretty legendary

[Ditto]

for me, a pitcher has two job: get outs and don't give up runs. to me era and whip are the truest ways to judge a pitcher and all other stats are secondary. i'd still take pedro over rj in their primes if i had to win a game--although rj's performance in the '01 world series is pretty legendary

That's true for most pitchers. Then you get a David Wells who get lazy after getting a 5 run lead.

[Allstarjim]

I don't want to get in the argument of who's better, I'll take the line that they were both great, both unbelievably great. It would appear that accumulatively Johnson's career has been more distinguished. But for three seasons (1997, 1999, and 2000), Pedro was as dominant as any pitcher in the game EVER. He was flat out unhittable. The movement on his pitches just wasn't even fair. I remember watching him and he just made batters look ridiculously silly because you could tell that standing in the batter's box against Pedro, no matter how good a hitter you were, was the most nervous event in the world for them. It was like they were stepping in the box in their first little league game, it was so laughable. I remember Pedro in that 1999 All-Star game also, that Golfin' mentioned. In his two innings, he struck out 5 of his 6 batters, including the first four. The batters he struck out, in order, were Barry Larkin, Larry Walker, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, and Jeff Bagwell. Matt Williams reached base on an error before Bagwell's AB, and he was caught stealing in a strike 'em out, throw 'em out double play. That All-Star game was the greatest two innings of a pitcher I've ever witnessed in my life, for the total dominance against the level of greatness of the batters he was facing.

 

Amazingly, Pedro had already compiled 182 K's before that all star game that season in 1999. That is unreal. I would love to see Pedro pitch this year for somebody, hope I get the chance.

[LorfTVP]

I don't want to get in the argument of who's better, I'll take the line that they were both great, both unbelievably great. It would appear that accumulatively Johnson's career has been more distinguished. But for three seasons (1997, 1999, and 2000), Pedro was as dominant as any pitcher in the game EVER. He was flat out unhittable. The movement on his pitches just wasn't even fair. I remember watching him and he just made batters look ridiculously silly because you could tell that standing in the batter's box against Pedro, no matter how good a hitter you were, was the most nervous event in the world for them. It was like they were stepping in the box in their first little league game, it was so laughable. I remember Pedro in that 1999 All-Star game also, that Golfin' mentioned. In his two innings, he struck out 5 of his 6 batters, including the first four. The batters he struck out, in order, were Barry Larkin, Larry Walker, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, and Jeff Bagwell. Matt Williams reached base on an error before Bagwell's AB, and he was caught stealing in a strike 'em out, throw 'em out double play. That All-Star game was the greatest two innings of a pitcher I've ever witnessed in my life, for the total dominance against the level of greatness of the batters he was facing.

 

Amazingly, Pedro had already compiled 182 K's before that all star game that season in 1999. That is unreal. I would love to see Pedro pitch this year for somebody, hope I get the chance.

 

My first game was Pedro Martinez vs. Mark Redman of the Oakland Athletics on July 7, 2004. He pitched 7 innings allowing 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 strikeouts, and three runs, two earned. Manny bounced a homerun off the cap of the Coke bottle too. He is always going to be a god amongst men.

[Money]

All things Pedro rule.

 

And I'll tell you another thing: Unlike the Big Unit, Pedro never would have served up a bomb to gap hitter Lou Collins in the bottom of the 9th of a one-game playoff.

[RandolphScott]

All things Pedro rule.

 

And I'll tell you another thing: Unlike the Big Unit, Pedro never would have served up a bomb to gap hitter Lou Collins in the bottom of the 9th of a one-game playoff.

 

 

Yeah, but Griffey caught it anyways.

 

 

[Money]

Yeah, but Griffey caught it anyways.

 

If there's anything I've learned in my brief time on this earth, it's that Ken Griffey Jr. won't always be around to clean up your mistakes...

[RandolphScott]

If there's anything I've learned in my brief time on this earth, it's that Ken Griffey Jr. won't always be around to clean up your mistakes...

 

 

This is true.

 

I remember in 2004 when Randy Johnson 1 hit the Mets (same year he pitched that perfect game)

and I was thinking to myself...."this dude is a great pitcher...."

 

Then I saw Pedro Martinez a bunch of times the next year and witnessed his 200th win.

[xxi-xxv]

What Johnson has over Pedro is longevity, no one can argue that.

 

The key point that is being terribly overlooked in this arguement(especially when counting average seasons)is that fact that from 1992 to 1994 Pedro was not even a starting pitcher, appearing in 65 games in 1993 as a reliever. It really was not until 1994 when the Expos let him start, yet were still very leery of him and would baby him as can be seen in his IP totals and game starts(although the strike lessened his stats as well).

 

In comparing these two there is no doubt that Johnsons longevity has given him better numbers. WHat I look at is the winning %, ERA, K's/9 ip and the teams they pitched for and what their win totals were in relation to the overall team wins.

 

Pedros years in Boston from 1998 to 2001 were ridiculously good when looking back at what he was facing in terms of overall hitting numbers in those years. In 2000 he pitched 217 innings and gave up 128 hits, while striking out 284. IMo his best season was 1997 in Montreal. The team was not that good yet he won 17 games, pitched to a 1.90 ERA while striking out 305 batters in 241 innings and allowing only 158 hits. Absurd. Pedro was the closest thing this generation had to Sandy Koufax in terms of a short window of dominance unmatched by no other in the game at the time. 1997-2001. What he was able to also do is still be very good from 2001-2005.

 

Imo they are both hall of famers and along with Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz are the first ballot locks of that era in terms of starters.

[Money]

Pedro also did not have a subversively homosexual nickname.

[Herc]

nor did he have the condition known as mark mcgwire neck