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Who would you take over Eli Manning right now?


gateb

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I'm ok with them, I guess, just don't see the purpose of this one.

 

There might be better QBs, but this one has done everything we've needed, and is a perfect fit for this system. If we got a Peyton (who, at least so far this year, isn't playing at the level he has in the past; so this is yer hypothetical), he can't improve the record; and at best won't screw up the offensive chemistry.

 

So even if there is a better QB than Manning right now, I wouldn't take him. Eli is obviously the right QB, in the right situation, at the right time. Just like Roethlisberger a few years ago, or Simms in our own distant past.

 

 

No,no, no. You can't say this sort of thing without backing it up with a truckload of stats dammit!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, I couldn't put it better, Eli is showing he has command of this offense, and everyone on offense looks to him as the leader. It's taken 4 years but he's finally getting it. Last Sunday he was great, the offense rolled and would have put up points against anyone. All this without his "problematic yet star" wide receiver, who by the way, has much respect for Eli.

 

Then look at Dallas, Romo is a good QB, he has been the better qb the last few years, he's thrown the ball better, better scrambler, he gets the job done. But he's cocky, and his cockiness is getting in the way a little bit. He didn't handle himself well in the playoffs last year, especially in the 4th quarter, and at a time when he needed to be at his coolest with his offense when they were struggling, he starts screaming at them. He didn't handle it well at all.

 

 

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The biggest improvement in Eli's game came in Gilbride and his staff realizing what his strengths and weaknesses are and capitalizing on it. Gone are the touch passes, the timing patterns, the screens(those should be gone anyway). And replaced is a game plan that accentuates his positives. Game management, pocket awareness and long balls. Once they stopped asking him to mold to their game and started building a strategy around him, the sun came out.

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The biggest improvement in Eli's game came in Gilbride and his staff realizing what his strengths and weaknesses are and capitalizing on it. Gone are the touch passes, the timing patterns, the screens(those should be gone anyway). And replaced is a game plan that accentuates his positives. Game management, pocket awareness and long balls. Once they stopped asking him to mold to their game and started building a strategy around him, the sun came out.

It was all Shockey's fault! Dont give me this, Eli has improved becasue of Gilbride...

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It was all Shockey's fault! Dont give me this, Eli has improved becasue of Gilbride...

 

 

Did you see Shockey walk onto the filed last night to check on Billy Miller after he got his clock cleaned on that hit. What a selfish bastard!!! He used to do that shit with the Giants also. I'm glad the fucker is gone.

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The biggest improvement in Eli's game came in Gilbride and his staff realizing what his strengths and weaknesses are and capitalizing on it. Gone are the touch passes, the timing patterns, the screens(those should be gone anyway). And replaced is a game plan that accentuates his positives. Game management, pocket awareness and long balls. Once they stopped asking him to mold to their game and started building a strategy around him, the sun came out.

 

I don't know. Our offense today sure looks a lot like our offense in the playoffs, which looked more or less identical to what we saw in '07 regular season. I think Eli has improved as his receivers have become more reliable and he's become more confident in their abilities.

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They had 1750 rushing yards last year. Their TE led the team in receptions. They attempted fewer passes than we did (529 to 520). That doesn't sound like one-dimensional 'Madden' offense, nor does it suggest that Romo's numbers are inflated. And his numbers are extremely good: 97.1 career QBR, and roughly a third of his passes attempt came while Parcells was the coach...before Jason Garrett ever installed the misappropriately named Madden offense.

 

And if you guys want to argue that Dallas' offense is so good because of Garrett, fine. But get used to that type of annual productivity because he's going to be there a long time.

 

 

:huh:

 

I thought you were talking about this year?

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Eli is just now starting to really grasp this offense and run with it, he is starting to limit the mistakes and his study of the game is helping him as well. I would take him over Romo simply because he is ours and he won. There is no way to say that Romo is a bad Qb though, or would not be as good with the Giants or any other team. He and ELI are two very different Qb's. IF ELi is Peyton then ROmo is Favre, 2 different types of Qb's, yet 2 very good Qb's.

 

Myself? I take ELI thats not to say Romo is bad though.

 

As for other Qb's how could you not take Brady on the Giants or Peyton for that matter? This offense is predicated on the power run game and a downfield passing game focusing on deep balls and play action. Those two things are things that Brady does better than anyone in the league and maybe one of the best of all time, same with Peyton. Again I will take ELI because he is ours, not because I am foolish to believe he is better than anyone else.

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:huh:

 

I thought you were talking about this year?

 

Well they have the same coaches and personnel this year, so last year serves as a fine barometer. There haven't been enough games played to make any meaningful conclusions about this year. But for the sake of argument, Dallas is averaging 138 rushing yards per game, which is 7th in the league. And Witten continues to lead the team in receptions. In fact, he has twice as many as the next guy...

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I don't know. Our offense today sure looks a lot like our offense in the playoffs, which looked more or less identical to what we saw in '07 regular season. I think Eli has improved as his receivers have become more reliable and he's become more confident in their abilities.

it's been a process but there is definitely a lot less slants and timing patterns then there used to be. these tended to cause him problems as pinpoint accuracy is not his forté

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Well they have the same coaches and personnel this year, so last year serves as a fine barometer. There haven't been enough games played to make any meaningful conclusions about this year. But for the sake of argument, Dallas is averaging 138 rushing yards per game, which is 7th in the league. And Witten continues to lead the team in receptions. In fact, he has twice as many as the next guy...

 

The fact still remains. If they were more balanced, Romo wouldnt have so many TO's due to flinging it. Look at our virtually mistake free year. We've got a great run game coupled with an almost mistake free QB. We dont need to pad stats to make ourselves feel better. (Just had to throw that one in :P )

 

 

BTW, you sure sound like a Dallas fan money. Fuck em.

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it's been a process but there is definitely a lot less slants and timing patterns then there used to be. these tended to cause him problems as pinpoint accuracy is not his forté

 

I agree fewer slants, but we still throw a good amount of play actions, fades, back shoulder fades, 15-yard ins (to Burress and now Hixon twice on Sunday), verticals, hitches (generally to Toomer), corners (mainly to Smith and Boss), deep outs. We've begun to use some more WR screens, as we did with Hilliard. And we do a lot of the same stuff in the red zone, notably that strech PA with a WR stutter over the middle (usually to Toomer though Tyree's TD in the Super Bowl was on this play). One of the big differences between our '07 offense and the playoff offense/'08 incarnation is Smith, who really has an entirely different repetroire of routes up his sleeve.

 

On another related note, I think he's a better pure passer than he's given credit for. Being healthy is a big positive this year. Remember that shoulder injury that was suppossed to keep him about a month early last season?

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The fact still remains. If they were more balanced, Romo wouldnt have so many TO's due to flinging it. Look at our virtually mistake free year. We've got a great run game coupled with an almost mistake free QB. We dont need to pad stats to make ourselves feel better. (Just had to throw that one in :P )

 

 

BTW, you sure sound like a Dallas fan money. Fuck em.

 

 

Money's being objective Blue, nothing else. TO is a better receiver than Plaxico, Witten was better than Shockey, our offensive line is good, their's may be better. It's no harm to admit to these things.

 

Our fans are better than those fair weather fucks they have down there mind you.

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I agree fewer slants, but we still throw a good amount of play actions, fades, back shoulder fades, 15-yard ins (to Burress and now Hixon twice on Sunday), verticals, hitches (generally to Toomer), corners (mainly to Smith and Boss), deep outs. We've begun to use some more WR screens, as we did with Hilliard. And we do a lot of the same stuff in the red zone, notably that strech PA with a WR stutter over the middle (usually to Toomer though Tyree's TD in the Super Bowl was on this play). One of the big differences between our '07 offense and the playoff offense/'08 incarnation is Smith, who really has an entirely different repetroire of routes up his sleeve.

 

On another related note, I think he's a better pure passer than he's given credit for. Being healthy is a big positive this year. Remember that shoulder injury that was suppossed to keep him about a month early last season?

 

 

I'd like to point out that on Sunday, we used an end around. Did anyone get that on video?, because it could be a while before we see it again.

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The fact still remains. If they were more balanced, Romo wouldnt have so many TO's due to flinging it. Look at our virtually mistake free year. We've got a great run game coupled with an almost mistake free QB. We dont need to pad stats to make ourselves feel better. (Just had to throw that one in :P )

 

 

BTW, you sure sound like a Dallas fan money. Fuck em.

 

I think they're just as balanced as we are. The two offense are very similar, both philosophically and personnel-wise. They have a much bigger OL, but our has more continuity and athleticism. They are slightly more aggressive passing the ball, we are a little more efficient on the ground. They obviously get far more production from their TEs; however, our deployment of Smith and occassionally Toomer (not to mention Boss) is a close facsimile. Both offenses are coordinated by former QBs and led by QB that are, at their core, gunslingers. Romo might be more mobile, but Eli takes fewer sacks. And so on.

 

Know thy enemy, know thy self.

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Are you asking for passing plays of 30+ yards, or passes attempted 30+ yards past the LOS? There's a monumental difference. I assume your hypothesis is that Dallas attempts more downfield throws than any other team, but I'm asking just to be clear.

 

That said, if your hypothesis proves to be true, I think that reflects positively on Romo. They have the confidence in him to connect on those deep passes, and he obviously does so adeptly. Hence his top-notch TD and YPA numbers. Obviously he does things that other QBs can't do, otherwise every team would replicate the Madden offense.

 

But Witten's production -- notably leading the team receptions both this year and last year -- would seemingly belie the idea that Dallas is a hail mary offense.

Apparently you've found the stats and are waiting to prove me wrong, but I'll bite. I'm willing to bet they take and complete more shots down field (hard to pad stats without completing those long passes.). From the games I've seen, they take more shots than any other team I've watched this year.

 

As for Whitten, better check his catches of 20 or 30 yards while your at it, because he always seems to be open 25 yards down field in the middle of the field. (yes, I do believe I just complemented a Dallas player)

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Apparently you've found the stats and are waiting to prove me wrong, but I'll bite. I'm willing to bet they take and complete more shots down field (hard to pad stats without completing those long passes.). From the games I've seen, they take more shots than any other team I've watched this year.

 

As for Whitten, better check his catches of 20 or 30 yards while your at it, because he always seems to be open 25 yards down field in the middle of the field. (yes, I do believe I just complemented a Dallas player)

 

Nah, I just think their willingness and ability to take shots down field actually underlines Romo's value as QB. Other teams and QBs would pad their stats too if they could make those types of throws.

 

For what it's worth, out of Witten's 96 catches last season, just 12 (12.5 %) went for 20+ yards. By comparison, 8 out of Jeremy Shockey's 57 receptions last year (14%) were over 20 yards. So it doesn't appear that they use their TE differently than anyone else.

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I agree fewer slants, but we still throw a good amount of play actions, fades, back shoulder fades, 15-yard ins (to Burress and now Hixon twice on Sunday), verticals, hitches (generally to Toomer), corners (mainly to Smith and Boss), deep outs. We've begun to use some more WR screens, as we did with Hilliard. And we do a lot of the same stuff in the red zone, notably that strech PA with a WR stutter over the middle (usually to Toomer though Tyree's TD in the Super Bowl was on this play). One of the big differences between our '07 offense and the playoff offense/'08 incarnation is Smith, who really has an entirely different repetroire of routes up his sleeve.

 

On another related note, I think he's a better pure passer than he's given credit for. Being healthy is a big positive this year. Remember that shoulder injury that was suppossed to keep him about a month early last season?

his accuracy has been an issue since Old Miss., probably before. he'll never be dan marino in that phase of his game. he has thrown more spirals this year, i'll give you that.

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In that book Tom Callahan wrote on Ernie Accorsi's last year as Giants GM it has the scouting

report on Manning from his junior year at Ole' Miss. "When he is in accurate he is high, but rarely

off target to either side." I'd say so far that is true.

 

 

The rest of the scouting report compared Eli to Bert Jones, Bernie Kosar, Earl Morall and Johnny Unitas though.

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Which reflects poorly on the QB and Offense.

 

this is inane...the dog can't figure out why inflated stats reflects poorly on a QB and an offense. The QB still has to make the appropriate reads and connect on the throw. It is inflated if a team is doing what the colts did to the lions a few years back (Manning throwing 6 td passes in a game that was never close), not if it is part of the scheme in game to game scenarios. The reality of it is, people could say the same about eli manning, whose early success was due in lareg part to his ability to throw the ball real high to burress on fade routes, and hope that he came down with it.

 

Manning is vastly imporved and developing into a top QB. So is Romo...why is it so difficult to give credit to other teams players (not just you by the way, as there are many who struggle with reality and blinders)...just because you can admit that an oppossing team's player is good, doesn't really make you any less of a giant's fan...

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this is inane...the dog can't figure out why inflated stats reflects poorly on a QB and an offense. The QB still has to make the appropriate reads and connect on the throw. It is inflated if a team is doing what the colts did to the lions a few years back (Manning throwing 6 td passes in a game that was never close), not if it is part of the scheme in game to game scenarios. The reality of it is, people could say the same about eli manning, whose early success was due in lareg part to his ability to throw the ball real high to burress on fade routes, and hope that he came down with it.

 

Manning is vastly imporved and developing into a top QB. So is Romo...why is it so difficult to give credit to other teams players (not just you by the way, as there are many who struggle with reality and blinders)...just because you can admit that an oppossing team's player is good, doesn't really make you any less of a giant's fan...

I have admitted it a few times in this thread, but I am also not above pointing out his faults. When people thought Eli was the worst QB in the league the point they made was all he could hit was the deep ball, obviously I'm not saying Romo is a poor QB, but while Money thinks Dallas' ability to throw the deep ball accentuates his prowess, I think it's the same thing that happened with Eli very early in his career. It hides the players inabilities, connect on a couple deep throws and it makes the corners back off a little, opening up a lot of dump offs or come back routes, which is what Dallas' offense is all about.

 

 

 

 

Correction "passing offense", because Dallas rushed for 1750 yards last season.

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this is inane...the dog can't figure out why inflated stats reflects poorly on a QB and an offense. The QB still has to make the appropriate reads and connect on the throw. It is inflated if a team is doing what the colts did to the lions a few years back (Manning throwing 6 td passes in a game that was never close), not if it is part of the scheme in game to game scenarios. The reality of it is, people could say the same about eli manning, whose early success was due in lareg part to his ability to throw the ball real high to burress on fade routes, and hope that he came down with it.

 

Manning is vastly imporved and developing into a top QB. So is Romo...why is it so difficult to give credit to other teams players (not just you by the way, as there are many who struggle with reality and blinders)...just because you can admit that an oppossing team's player is good, doesn't really make you any less of a giant's fan...

 

 

Inflating stats by airing it out? Who else is airing it out? Of course it reflects upon the QB if they are inflating stats. But no, I will not admit to it. We all know it, no need to help boy wonder out anymore. I'll stick to my Romo the Homo bashing. :)

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