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[xxi-xxv]

The Braves bullpen isn't much better than the Phillies and Mets. It will come back to bite the Braves eventually. Soriano is going to blow a lot of games for them. Outside of Chipper, Tex and Mccann, I really do not like their lineup.

I would take Beltran over any of their outfielders, yet would take Franceour and Diaz over any of our others.

 

Although I would take Reyes, dismissing Escobar is foolish, this guy is going to be a great player. Obviously they have us beat at C and 1B. Put RF, LF and an arguement can be made for 2B as well. Where we do have them beat in 2 positions(ss and 3b) its not like they have bums in those spots, such as the drastic way they beat us at 1B and C. The only clear cut advantage we have is in CF, where they do not posses a player near the caliber of Carlos Beltran, but watch out on that one Jordan Schaefer is a player they love and a reason they let Jones walk.

 

I think if the Braves pen gives them anything that is the best team in the NL east.

[Allstarjim]

I would take Beltran over any of their outfielders, yet would take Franceour and Diaz over any of our others.

 

Although I would take Reyes, dismissing Escobar is foolish, this guy is going to be a great player. Obviously they have us beat at C and 1B. Put RF, LF and an arguement can be made for 2B as well. Where we do have them beat in 2 positions(ss and 3b) its not like they have bums in those spots, such as the drastic way they beat us at 1B and C. The only clear cut advantage we have is in CF, where they do not posses a player near the caliber of Carlos Beltran, but watch out on that one Jordan Schaefer is a player they love and a reason they let Jones walk.

 

I think if the Braves pen gives them anything that is the best team in the NL east.

 

 

I had a really long post about this topic and also replying to your post, xxi. To summarize: Braves lineup is awesome, what are you talking about jranieli, I concur about Escobar, kid is a special talent.

 

Omar has not been great, but he did get us Pedro and that is the only reason we are in the conversation as contenders today. Plus I believe Willie has had some input in making the roster. And Heath Bell sucked when he was with us.

[xxi-xxv]

I had a really long post about this topic and also replying to your post, xxi. To summarize: Braves lineup is awesome, what are you talking about jranieli, I concur about Escobar, kid is a special talent.

 

Omar has not been great, but he did get us Pedro and that is the only reason we are in the conversation as contenders today. Plus I believe Willie has had some input in making the roster. And Heath Bell sucked when he was with us.

 

I hear you on Bell, but the organizations defense on Burgos was that he threw hard(yet had shitty stats), well Bell throws hard too, why did that matter for Burgos?

 

Same organization said that they needed young arms to fill spot starts and traded Owens and Lidstrom(two guys that throw hard, something they apparently covet based on the Burgos logic)for Vargas to fill spot starts.

 

Well here is how I see it. You could have kept young hard throwing arms like you said you were in the market for with Bell, Owens and Lidstrom and kept Bannister here to fill that role you had to have Vargas for.

 

Omar may have gotten us Pedro, but the 4th guaranteed year, which will cost Fred and Jeff probably 750,000/start got him just as much.

[Allstarjim]

I hear you on Bell, but the organizations defense on Burgos was that he threw hard(yet had shitty stats), well Bell throws hard too, why did that matter for Burgos?

 

On my long post that I lost, I made this same point about Burgos and Bell, so I completely agree with what you are saying.

 

But with Pedro, no matter what Pedro is getting with the fourth year, his signing put us in the running for Beltran and Delgado. Delgado would've waived the trade to the Mets, and Beltran wouldn't have come at all. We gained legitimacy with Pedro's signing. For that, Minaya deserves a lot of credit. But that was a long time ago, and we have a lot of bad trades later to remember from Minaya. I wonder if someone (maybe me), can post every trade and major free agent signing Minaya has done since he's become GM.

 

 

[Allstarjim]

OK, I have the entire Minaya trade history with the Mets. Let's begin:

 

12/3/2004: Traded RP Mike Stanton (and cash) to Yankees for RP Felix Heredia. My verdict: Slight win.

1/6/2005: Traded C Vance Wilson to Tigers for SS Anderson Hernandez. My verdict: Wash.

1/27/2005: Acquired 1B Doug Mientkiewicz and conditional cash from Red Sox for nonroster 1B Ian Bladergroen. My verdict: Win.

3/20/2005: Acquired LHP Kaz Ishii from LA Dodgers for C/1B Jason Phillips. My verdict: Slight win.

3/29/2005: Acquired INF Benji Gil from Seattle Mariners for cash. My verdict: Slight loss.

4/2/2005: Acquired non-roster LHP Steve Colyer for RHP Matt Ginter. My verdict: Moderate loss.

11/18/2005: Acquired INF/OF Xavier Nady from Padres for OF Mike Cameron. My verdict: Big win.

11/24/2005: Obtained 1B Carlos Delgado and cash from Marlins for 1B Mike Jacobs, RHP Yusmeiro Petit and INF Grant Psomas. My verdict: Moderate win.

11/28/2005: Acquired OF Tike Redman from the Pirates for cash. My verdict: Slight win.

12/5/2005: Acquired C Paul Lo Duca from Marlins for 2 players to be named (best I could do). My verdict: Win.

1/4/2006: Acquired RHP Duaner Sanchez and RHP Steve Schmoll from Dodgers RHP Jae Seo and LHP Tim Hamulack. My verdict: Huge win.

1/21/2006: Acquired RHP Jorge Julio and RHP John Maine from Orioles for RHP Kris Benson. My verdict: Monumental win.

5/24/2006: Acquired RHP Orlando Hernandez from Diamondbacks for RHP Jorge Julio. My verdict: Win.

5/25/2006: Acquired LHP Dave Williams from Reds for RHP Robert Manuel and cash. My verdict: Win.

5/26/2006: Acquired RHP Mike Adams Brewers for RHP Jeremi Gonzalez. My verdict: No factor.

6/9/2006: Acquired C/1B/OF Eli Marrero Rockies for INF Kaz Matsui. My verdict: Win, just for Kaz leaving NY.

7/19/2006: Acquired INF Ruben Gotay from Royals for INF Jeff Keppinger. My verdict: Loss, now that Gotay has been waived.

7/31/2006: Acquired RHP Roberto Hernandez and LHP Oliver Perez from Pirates for OF Xavier Nady. My verdict: Big win. (Hate to say that, though, I love the X-man.)

8/20/2006: Acquired RHP Guillermo Mota and cash from Indians for player to be named. My verdict: Win.

8/22/2006: Acquired OF Shawn Green and cash from Diamondbacks for LHP Evan MacLane. My verdict: Win.

8/30/2006: Acquired C Mike Nickeas from Rangers for OF Victor Diaz. My verdict: No factor.

11/15/2006: Acquired OF Ben Johnson and RHP Jon Adkins from Padres for RHP Heath Bell and LHP Royce Ring. My verdict: Monumental head-scratching loss.

11/20/2006: Acquired LHP Jason Vargas and LHP Adam Bostick from Marlins for RHP Henry Owens and RHP Matt Lindstrom. My verdict: HUGE loss.

12/6/2006: Acquired RHP Ambiorix Burgos for RHP Brian Bannister from Royals. My verdict: HUGE loss. (3 in a row for Omar.)

5/15/2007: Acquired infielder Jake Gautreau from Indians for a player to be named later or cash considerations. My verdict: No factor.

7/30/07: Acquired 2B Luis Castillo from Twins for C Drew Butera and OF Dustin Martin. My verdict: Win, for what we gave up, however, Gotay earned that job with his bat and they could've just given him the job. Debatable if we are a better team with Castillo than we would be if Gotay was starting.

8/20/07: Acquired 1B/OF Jeff Conine from the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for Minor Leaguer INF Jose Castro and Minor League OF Sean Henry. My verdict: Loss. Conine hit .195 in 41 ABs for the Mets.

11/20/07: Acquired C Johnny Estrada from Brewers for RHP Guillermo Mota. My verdict: Loss. Estrada was never going to catch for the Mets. They should've shopped Mota for a prospect or another reliever. Mota still had some value, despite his down year.

11/28/07: Acquired RHP Brian Stokes from the Tampa Bay Rays in exchange for cash considerations. My verdict: If we get anything positive out of Stokes, it's a win.

11/30/07: Acquired OF Ryan Church and C Brian Schneider from Nationals for OF Lastings Milledge. My verdict: I think Milledge is going to be a star, but I still have to call it a slight win for the Mets. Both teams win in this one.

1/5/08: Acquired OF Angel Pagan from Cubs for OF Corey Coles and RHP Ryan Meyers. My verdict: Big win.

2/2/08: Acquired LHP Johan Santana from the Twins for OF Carlos Gomez, RHP Deolis Guerra, RHP Philip Humber and RHP Kevin Mulvey. My verdict: Big win for Mets.

 

 

Some thoughts: When you look at the entire history, Minaya has done a fair job in improving the team through trades. But the ones that affected us the most are the ones that hurt so much now. The three trade sequence from 11/15 to 12/6 of 2006 were disastrous. We traded:

 

Heath Bell

Royce Ring

Henry Owens

Matt Lindstrom

Brian Bannister

 

For:

 

Ben Johnson

Jon Adkins

Jason Vargas

Adam Bostick

Ambiorix Burgos

 

Looking at that makes me sick.

[jranieli]

bums

[Ggirl]

[feefifoefum]

 

Winning 9 in a row against us doesn't earn you the right to plant a on us.

 

Save it for tomorrow, when you win for the 10th straight time!

 

 

:explode:

[Ggirl]

Save it for tomorrow, when you win for the 10th straight time!

:explode:

Party pooper. :brooding:

 

 

 

[gateb]

This is pathetic. I didn't watch the game, but I sent for Mets text alerts every 20 minutes or so. When I saw it was the 7th and we had 2 runs against Moyer I knew we'd lose.

 

Castillo's hurt?

 

Rollins is??

[Exit 117]

Mets suck, go Rangers*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*New York Rangers, of course. Fuck the Devils.